asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will give a list of the particular restrictions imposed on the supply of large merchant vessels to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and Poland.

The shipping controls form part of the international lists and, on the subject of publication, I can add nothing to what my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Board of Trade, said in answer to the hon. and learned Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Bing) on 1st June.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable interest in this question, and that the wider the knowledge is spread the better it will be as far as our own shipbuilding industry is concerned?

I certainly realise how widespread is the interest in this question, but the present moment, when the lists are under review, would not be a good time to publish them.

How long does the right hon. Gentleman propose to continue these restrictions on the supply of British merchant vessels to the Soviet Union when other countries associated with us in many other respects are supplying these vessels?

That is really a question for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, but I assure the right hon. Gentleman that all Departments of the Government interested in shipbuilding and shipping are most anxious to reach a decision as quickly as possible. We are doing everything we can to shorten the time.

Is the First Lord accurate in saying that it is the responsibility of the Board of Trade? I always understood that the Admiralty advised the Board of Trade.

If the right hon. Gentleman looks back on Questions and answers in the House, he will find that the President of the Board of Trade is the Minister principally authorised to make statements.

Is it not a fact that shipbuilders already know the restrictions which exists?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when I attempted to put down a Question to the President of the Board of Trade I was told that it was a matter for the Admiralty? Is he now in a position to state whether it is possible for British shipbuilders to accept orders for vessels similar to that which has been accepted by Holland in agreement with Russia in a business exchange?

If the Question was transferred to the Admiralty, it was one specifically for the Admiralty to deal with rather than concerning the general question of East-West trade, for which the Board of Trade is responsible. Any requests from the shipbuilding industry to build ships such as that which the hon. Member says is being built by Holland will certainly be considered by the authorities, although I cannot promise what the answer will be.

I am sorry to pursue this, but it is most important from the standpoint of British shipping interests. Can the First Lord say whether very soon we shall have the policy of the Government firmly stated?

I think it will be very soon. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are at present in consultation with other nations—we do not stand alone on this—but, as far as this country is concerned, the sooner the Government can make a statement the happier we will be.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he is aware of the adverse conditions that are still continuing to afflict the British shipbuilding and shiprepairing industry; and if he will specify the steps he is taking to resolve those adverse conditions and to maintain employment in that industry.

The main problem confronting the shipbuilding industry has been the shortage of steel plate, but this has now been successfully overcome. The immediate outlook for the industry is good, although new orders will be needed soon. Employment in the industry is now increasing slightly. With regard to the shiprepairing industry, I would refer the hon. and learned Member to the reply which my hon. Friend the Civil Lord gave to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) on 16th June.

Does the Minister realise that, as compared with other nations, Britain is in grave danger of losing her traditional, pre-eminent place in the shipbuilding world, and will the right hon. Gentleman begin inquiries to find the cause with a view to eradicating it?

I am well aware that we are moving away from the abnormal conditions in the immediate post-war years, and I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that we do not view the present position with any complacency whatever. We make every kind of inquiry to find out how the position can be improved. I would say that the United Kingdom shipbuilding industry has got nearly 2 million tons under construction and 3 million tons still to be laid down. That represents two to three years' work, and, although I am not being complacent about the matter, I think the position is not as bad as is sometimes made out.

What about the position in the Scottish yards?

In view of the very competitive conditions with which we have been faced during the last year or so, is it not a fact that under this Government we have done far better in this respect as in other respects than we had any reason to anticipate in 1951?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will make arrangements that, under the new arrangements of entry and training to come into force at the Royal Naval College, Dartmouth, next year which will be parallel to the entry and training of cadets at Sandhurst and Cranwell, parents of naval cadets will no longer be called upon to pay term fees, subject to a means test.

Yes, Sir. No payments will be required from the parents of cadets who enter Dartmouth College under the new system.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this announcement is very welcome? I feel sure that in many homes a silent "Thank you" will be said to him for making this concession, which gives to the parents of naval cadets the same benefits as are given to the parents of cadets who enter the other Services. This is another example of my right hon. Friend's excellent administration.

I thank my hon. Friend.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty when he will apply to Admiralty civilian employees, at present classed as dilutees, treatment in relation to merit pay and establishment similar to that provided by the agreement between the Air Ministry and the Amalgamated Engineering Union.

Dilutees employed by the Admiralty already receive treatment for establishment comparable with that given to Air Ministry dilutees. Merit pay for Admiralty craft grades including dilutees is regulated by an agreement negotiated on the Shipbuilding Trades Joint Council on which the Amalgamated Engineering Union is only one of many unions represented. This agreement is at present under review.

Will my right hon. Friend press forward this review, because a substantial concession has recently been made to Air Ministry employees and the delay is making this a legitimate grievance on the part of Admiralty employees?

We certainly shall not waste time in pursuing this matter.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's answer mean that he is going to meet representatives of the unions on this matter, and is he aware that it concerns the craft unions, of which the Amalgamated Engineering Union is the largest?

Yes. Anybody interested in this matter will be consulted as well as the main unions.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the wartime temporary relaxation agreement with the Amalgamated Engineering Union is being enforced at Admiralty establishments in South Buckinghamshire, but is not being applied in private engineering industry in that area; and whether he will dispel the resulting anomaly and injustice by arranging for equality of treatment for all employees in the Admiralty establishments.

The wartime dilution agreement between the Admiralty and the Amalgamated Engineering Union is still in force and the employment of dilutees registered with that union must therefore continue to be governed by it. Any proposals for a revision of the agreement which the Amalgamated Engineering Union may put forward will, of course, be carefully considered.

But while the Admiralty naturally feels bound by this agreement, when my right hon. Friend is engaging in negotiations with the Amalgamated Engineering Union will he take into account the fact that in private employment in the area the agreement is no longer in operation?

I am aware of what my hon. Friend says, but this is a very complex subject for Parliamentary Question and answer. I am quite prepared to discuss it with my hon. Friend if he wishes to do so.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty how many helicopters and what types are in service with the Royal Navy; and what orders have been placed to increase the helicopter strength.

There are approximately 100 helicopters in service in the Royal Navy, some of which are American types supplied under the Mutual Defence Assistance Programme. The types in service are the Dragonfly, Hiller and Whirlwind. Approximately another 100 helicopters, all of them British, are on order for the Royal Navy.

In congratulating the First Lord of the Admiralty on the outstanding enterprise of his Department in pioneering helicopters, may I ask him to bear in mind that the United States Navy is proposing to hand over an aircraft carrier for helicopters for assault purposes, and will he give careful consideration to this aspect of the matter?

Yes. I should like to thank the hon. Member for what he said about my Department. We have shown intense interest in helicopters from the start, and I shall certainly bear in mind what he tells me about the American aircraft carrier.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty why the number of civil servants in his Department increased from 33,652 to 33,788 between 1st January and 1st April, 1954.

I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to my reply on 23rd June to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall).

Can my right hon. Friend tell me whether there is an upper limit to the continuous expansion that has gone on in the Admiralty staff during the past 12 months and which has now reached nearly 34,000?

We certainly have a ceiling put upon Admiralty employment as a whole by the Treasury, and we are below that ceiling. But, as I warned my hon. and learned Friend some weeks ago when he asked me a Question on the subject, we have had difficulty in recruitment for particular people. These difficulties are now eased and we are getting the men to keep pace with the advance in research and development. My hon. and learned Friend will be glad to know that, while the numbers here are increased, the numbers elsewhere are being reduced.

Does the First Lord remember the strictures he used to pass on his predecessors when similar replies were given, and, when he recalls that, does it ever bring a blush to his cheek?

Perhaps it would bring many blushes if the numbers in the Admiralty as a whole were not below the ceiling set for us by the Treasury.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he is yet in a position to make a statement on the proposals for improving the promotion prospects of Instructor Lieutenants, formerly Schoolmasters R.N.

Yes, Sir. The conditions of service of these officers have now been very carefully reviewed, and it has been decided to allow a further 26 selective promotions to Instructor Lieutenant-Commander, in addition to those permissible under the scheme of 1946.

I am much obliged for that statement, which will be greeted with modified rapture, but there will be 45 of these officers who originally were under the expectation of being promoted and who will not now be promoted. Is it not a fact that the First Lord can expect continued agitation from that group?

That is possible. I thank the hon. Member for his modified congratulations, and I think that this is a big step in the right direction.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he has now been able to postpone the overseas posting of a stoker petty officer, particulars of whose case have been sent to him in writing.

No, Sir. My hon. and gallant Friend the Parliamentary Secretary has already informed the hon. Member that the circumstances of this case do not justify postponement of draft.

Why is there not in the Navy any provision comparable to that of Memorandum 10 of January, 1954, in the R.A.F., whereby the R.A.F. men are entitled to postponement of overseas posting within three months of the date on which their wives are expecting the birth of a baby?

I would remind the hon. Member that the drafting conditions in the Navy are considerably more difficult than in the R.A.F. There is always a long chain of drafting and, if alterations are made, it causes hardship elsewhere. We have done our best to modify the conditions. This case refers to a prospective confinement. Drafting is delayed if complications are expected, or if arrangement cannot be made for the wife and family to be looked after by other people during the confinement.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what ships were under the command of Admiral Sir Dudley North on 9th September, 1940.

On a point of order. I do not want to block the right hon. Gentleman's Question on policy grounds, but I want to deal with a matter from the procedural point of view. Is there any limit to the number of Questions which can be put down week-by-week relating to the past and, sometimes, the distant past? Ought these Questions not to deal with current administration, or are we all entitled to put down Questions about past disputes; in which case I might have one or two about my family connections almost 100 years ago?

Each Question is treated on its merits. This run of Questions started with a request to the First Lord for an inquiry, and that is a matter in the present.

The answer to the Question is: Nine destroyers and a number of smaller ships. In addition, in an emergency, as Flag Officer Commanding, North Atlantic, the senior officer at Gibraltar, Admiral North could have called on the services of Her Majesty's Ship "Renown" should he have considered this necessary.

May I take it from that answer that it would be recognised that Admiral North would be in close and continual contact with Admiral Somerville?

Yes. Admiral North was the senior commanding officer there.

Is that really so? Was not Force H an independent force with a great deal of interference from the Minister of Defence at the time?

I would point out that Admiral North in his own evidence admits he had power over "Renown" and he admits that in an emergency he would not have hesitated to order her to sea if desirable. When Admiral Somerville wished to put back "Renown" to two hours steaming he went to Admiral North for approval, which was given by him.

Is it not a fact that Admiral North had only nine ancient destroyers under his command and he was ashore while Admiral Sir James Somerville had a powerful battleship and other powerful units with him? Does the First Lord really mean that Admiral North was the superior officer?

He was the superior officer, as he himself says in two quotations that I read to the House.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what messages were received by the Admiralty from Admiral North between 0008 hours on 11th September, 1940, and the passage of the French ships through the Straits of Gibraltar; and at what times.

Two, Sir. One, timed 0617, reported that H.M.S. "Hotspur" had sighted six ships moving West at high speed and that she had been directed to take no action. This signal was received in Admiralty at 0740. The other, timed 0711, and repeated to Flag Officer, Force H, reported Admiral North's intention to keep in touch with these ships by air and to report their probable destination. It reached Admiralty at 0742.

Does the First Lord really mean that the signal sent at 0215 by Admiral North to "Hotspur" was never sent to the Admiralty, and that instructions for the "Renown" to be at one hour's steam at 0617 on that day were also not known to the Admiralty? Further, is it not a fact that Admirals North and Somerville were in continuous consultation long before this, and that the Admiralty should have known all about it two days before but, owing to the incompetence of the people here, they ignored the signals?

The Admiralty has never disputed that the signals were mishandled at the Admiralty, and the officer in charge was relieved of his post. The case against Admiral North was that he did not take any steps to bring his ships to the necessary state of readiness to carry out any instructions which might be sent to him. It was for that reason that he was considered to be no longer fit to remain at his post.

Does the First Lord really say that there was no instruction to "Renown" at 0617 to be at one hour's steam? Does he really say that is so? If so, he should look at his instructions again.

My information is that Admiral Somerville got a signal from "Hotspur" on his own and put "Renown" at one hour's steam.

rose—

Oh!

I want to go on. I could not care less about the noble Lord. What I want to know is this: Does the First Lord really suggest that Admirals North and Somerville were divorced from one another? Has he not read the accounts given by staff officers of what really happened that night—that they were in continuous consultation ever since the morning of 9th September, and knew exactly what was going on, and knew what one another was doing? Does the First Lord deny that?

I have no wish to deny that both Admiral North and Admiral Somerville were in constant touch with each other, but, as I said at the beginning of this long series of questions, Admiral North did not pass on the signal that he received from the Naval Attaché just after midnight until 8 o'clock the following morning.

That is not true, it is a lie.

Order, Order.

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that the facts of this case are not in dispute, that they never have been in dispute, and that I have answered accurately every question he has put.

Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

I shall be delighted to deal with it.

Withdraw.

I withdraw that it is a lie; but it is completely untrue.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what plans have been made to use helicopters for the mail services.

There are no immediate plans for sending mail by helicopter: but the Post Office has already made comprehensive experiments with these aircraft. As my hon. Friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation said, in the course of an Adjournment debate on 15th June, the Post Office will be quick to consider using helicopters as soon as there is a reasonable prospect of essential postal requirements being met. These are not only the acceleration of the mail at reasonable cost but also with a high standard of regularity in all weather conditions, especially as so much of the mail has to be moved during the night.

Whilst appreciating that the Post Office has made experiments, does not the Assistant Postmaster-General also appreciate that experiments need to continue if success is to be gained? Is he aware that for three years in America a successful all-the-year round postal service has been carried out by helicopters, and would he not consider it as a possible technique for reducing the number of mailbag robberies in this country?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the conditions in America, where they have vast distances to cover, are quite different from here, where so much of the mail goes by night and where the weather conditions would not make the use of helicopters a practical proposition.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the First Lord of the Admiralty has said that they propose to have 200 helicopters flying over water, so why should he not experiment with the use of helicopters for delivering mail on the West Coast of Scotland?

We have carried out experiments and have found that the cost is absolutely prohibitive, and in view of the fact that so much of the mail in this relatively small country goes by night, we cannot see that there would be any saving in efficiency.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that it is important that people should not be kept awake all night, because otherwise they will not be able to read the letters when the helicopters bring them?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General why, and acting on what advice from outside his Department, he decided to charge 9d. for the International Reply Coupon of the Universal Postal Union, exchangeable in any country for a postage stamp representing the amount of postage for an ordinary single-rate letter destined for a foreign country.

Ninepence is the equivalent in sterling of 32 gold centimes, the minimum charge permitted by the Universal Postal Convention.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether, in order to foster the spirit of world community desired by Her Majesty's Government, he will consider asking his representative on the Universal Postal Union to propose the issue of a world stamp for identical use in all countries of the value of an ordinary single-rate letter destined for a foreign country and exchangeable for the present International Reply Coupon.

Whilst sympathising with the motives of the hon. Member, I feel that the International Reply Coupon already fulfils all practical needs and that I should not therefore be justified in taking the initiative on the lines suggested.

In view of our affiliations with the Universal Postal Union, and the part we play in U.N.O., would it not be a good thing to support the idea of a world stamp, which might be regarded in some quarters as a desirable international step?

It was the British who many years ago were responsible for the International Reply Coupon, and we feel that it has met all the needs up to the present time.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how much of Christ Church Green. Victoria Street, S.W.1, will be occupied by the new post office; and what garage accommodation will be provided.

Only the site of the disused church and vicarage adjoining Christ Church Green will be occupied by the proposed new telephone exchange and public post office. There will be no garage.

Why is it that in this most congested area a new post office has been set up by the State with no garage accommodation, despite the fact that less than 200 yards away two private buildings have been put up, both of which would provide ample accommodation? Is it not time that the State stood up to its responsibilities in ridding the streets of vehicles?

This office will not be a sorting office and therefore there will be no need for a garage. The ground floor of the building will be used for a public post office.

Will the hon. Gentleman assure the House that the valuable open space which is used so much at the present time will not be built upon in this new venture?

I think that I can give the hon. Member that assurance. The only space to be built on is that occupied by the derelict church and the vicarage which adjoins it.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what progress has been made in providing an additional post office in Brixton.

No one has replied to our successive advertisements for a sub-postmaster. It looks as if the only solution is to find larger premises for the existing Crown Office, and this we are trying to do.

As the Minister now agrees that his efforts and mine to find a sub-postmaster to staff Brixton Road Post Office have proved ineffective, does he not think the best thing to do now would be to open another new Crown Office in the Brixton Road, especially as suitable premises happen to be available for it?

No. I think the better way is to move the present Crown Office to a site which will serve the two areas with which the hon. and gallant Member is concerned.

Would it not be a good idea for the Assistant Postmaster-General to apply for this job as it is about the only one he could do competently?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what action, other than sending forms to fill up, the head postmaster at Brighton has taken concerning the complaints of over 50 householders on and around the Brangwyn Estates, Brighton, about television interference; how many times these householders have been asked to fill in forms in the past few months; and what he will do to stop the interference.

As I have explained in a recent letter to my hon. Friend, there must be some misunderstanding. I am advised that the television signal is good, and very few complaints are received from the estate. As regards filling up of forms, all that has been done is to ask certain of the householders, who had complained, to keep the usual two week record to assist in tracing interference. Only one has so far supplied the information; I am, however, arranging for the engineers to make further tests on the estate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in the last two or three days, I have had seven letters and a petition signed by no fewer than 14 people in the district to say that they are suffering from this problem, and would he, therefore, make a determined effort that the engineers shall study this matter and not leave it to the ordinary Post Office officials, who carry out their work during the ordinary hours of the day and not necessarily during the hours when television is on?

As there has been some conflict of testimony as to the conditions, I have arranged for the engineers to go on to the Estate again.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the cause of this interference is largely due to helicopters hovering about?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General why the Principality of Wales, and especially the province of Gwynedd, continues to be badly served in the matter of reception of the Welsh Home Service: and what action he contemplates to remedy the position.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware that the reception of the Welsh Home Service in Anglesey continues to be unsatisfactory; and what steps he is taking to ensure that the Welsh people can hear their own programme.

The B.B.C. know that in some parts of Wales and Anglesey reception of the Welsh Home Service is not satisfactory. It is not possible to make any major improvement because no new stations operating on the present medium wave length can be fitted in, and because no additional medium wave lengths are available. As the hon. Members know, the B.B.C. hope that very high frequency broadcasting may in the long run be the answer to our problems here.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this is a pressing problem in Wales, where some hundreds of thousands of Welsh people are unable to receive the only programme in which they are really interested, that this is a special case calling for special action, that talk about very high frequency modulation is of no use, and that he should expend on this pressing Welsh problem one-tenth of the energy which is most regrettably used up in promoting commercial television?

I must correct the hon. Gentleman. There are no available wave lengths which can be allotted for this part of Wales. The solution, the B.B.C. are convinced, lies in the direction of very high frequency.

Could not the hon. Gentleman press forward with the provision of subordinate transmitters or boosters along the coasts of Wales? It has been tried previously, I think, with some substantial improvement. Is anything being done about this position, because it is getting worse every month?

It is not a question of nothing being done, but the proposal of the B.B.C. is to tackle this problem by the only method which they consider to be satisfactory, and that is by V.H.F.

Are we to understand, therefore, that this very important area is to be left completely unserved until the new scheme comes into operation?

There will not be any dramatic improvement in the situation until the very high frequency stations come into operation.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the results of the consultations that have taken place between the Angus Burgh Association and the British Broadcasting Corporation regarding problems of poor radio reception in the county.

The British Broadcasting Corporation have informed me that they have told the Angus Burgh Association that they are aware of the unsatisfactory reception of the Scottish Home Service in the County of Angus, and that they have fully considered the needs of this area in drawing up proposals for development of very high frequency broadcasting. As hon. Members are aware, these proposals are at present being considered by my noble Friend.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that reception of the Light Programme, particularly in the Dundee area, is very bad and that the great majority of listeners cannot receive it? Will he not look into the question here, as in Wales, of providing booster stations now instead of pursuing the long-term policy of V.H.F. broadcasting?

I am not a technician, but I am informed that booster stations will not help very much and that the real way to tackle the problem is by the provision of V.H.F. stations. I hope that it will not be long before I am in a position to make a statement on the development of V.H.F. broadcasting.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what tests for television broadcasts have taken place on Band III; and on what channels.

A number of radio manufacturers are carrying out experimental and development work in this band and the B.B.C. are also conducting tests. The tests have not been confined to specific channels.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what channels have been allocated to the British Broadcasting Corporation on Band III.

None, Sir. Full coverage of the B.B.C.'s present television programme is catered for in Band I. If, however, the hon. Member is referring to the possibility of the B.B.C. doing a second programme in Band III, I would remind him that the Corporation does not plan to start such a programme before 1957.

Is it proposed to allocate two channels to the B.B.C. in Band III?

A decision has to be reached yet as to whether the B.B.C. is to have a second programme.

Are we to understand that, in order that this field may be monopolised by private interests, the Government may refuse the B.B.C. a second programme, which the B.B.C. offered to provide, an offer which completely demolishes the Government's idea that the B.B.C. is not willing to institute a competitive service?

If the right hon. Gentleman puts his question slightly differently, I can give him a straight answer. The B.B.C. has put forward a 10-year development plan, which includes a second programme, but no decision has been taken yet as to whether that development plan is to be fully accepted.

Why is the B.B.C. experimenting on Band III when it is proposed that, if the B.B.C. has a second programme, it will be broadcast on Band II?

I think that the hon. Member is incorrect. If the B.B.C. does have a second programme it will be broadcast in Band III.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what services it is proposed to remove from Band III.

The land mobile services will need to move from Band III, and this would release two channels. Some of the other services listed in my reply of the 29th July, 1953, may also need to be moved, but the full extent of these moves can only be determined as television development proceeds.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that his decision is grossly unfair to those who are already using Band III and that it puts them to a great deal of unnecessary expenditure purely in order to have sponsored television?

The two channels allotted to commercial television are two channels which are already available. As to mobile services, one of the conditions of the licences, which they fully understood when the licences were taken out, was that they might have to move from that Band.

Is it not correct that these services have been promised other facilities in another Band?

They would not be taken off the air.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he is now in a position to increase the allocation of rural telephone kiosks; how many representations on this subject he has received from local authorities and other bodies; and if he will make a statement.

We are providing more money this year for rural kiosks, but for the reasons given in the answer to my hon. Friend's Question on 9th December last, I cannot say whether we shall provide a greater number than last year. Representations are received from time to time but statistical records of these are not kept.

Will my hon. Friend note the expressed view of the Association of Welsh Rural Councils that the present number of these kiosks in Welsh rural areas is inadequate?

Yes, I realise that, but the point is that, with the limited amount of capital expenditure at our disposal, we have to make a choice between erecting one rural kiosk and connecting 16 urban subscribers.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applicants for telephones in the borough of Barry made their first applications more than four years ago and more than three years ago, respectively; and how these figures compare with the average figures for the United Kingdom as a whole.

Fourteen applicants have been waiting between three and four years and 11 over four years. The position in Barry is rather better than the average for the United Kingdom.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applications for telephones are still outstanding in the area of the borough of Barry; how many were outstanding a year ago; and how many he anticipates may be satisfied during the next year.

Two hundred and twenty-nine applications are now outstanding as compared with 315 just over a year ago. One hundred and sixty-four telephones were connected in the past 12 months, and I hope that we shall be able to increase this figure slightly in the current financial year.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that encouraging information, may I ask whether he will pay particular attention to the needs of certain business applicants in the borough of Barry?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applications for telephones in the Dalkeith district are at present before his Department.

One hundred and six applications were outstanding at the 31st March, 1954.

Does the Minister not consider that this part of Midlothian is most inadequately provided with telephone facilities?

There is a shortage of telephones almost everywhere, and some places are worse off than others. The position is not worse in this area than it is on the average.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applications for telephones have been received by his Department from persons in the county of Midlothian during the years 1952 and 1953.

Five thousand and sixty-six and 5,651, respectively, including 4,900 and 5,400 for Edinburgh. Six thousand, one hundred and fifty-eight telephones were supplied last year.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many public telephone kiosks were installed in the counties of Midlothian and Peebles in the years 1952 and 1953.

Thirteen kiosks were installed in the county of Midlothian, including Edinburgh, and two in Peebles in each of these years.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that at that rate it will take 150 years to provide Midlothian and Peebles with public telephones at 10-mile intervals?

I trust that the hon. Member's figure does not represent the true position.

Can the hon. Gentleman state whether all this backwardness in telephone installations, which conflicts with the Government's declaration that everybody can get anything they want nowadays, is partly explained by the fact that the Government are squandering a lot of resources on commercial television?

This Government have reduced the waiting list by over 100,000 in the last two years.

Is my hon. Friend aware that under a Socialist Government it would take 250 years?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware of the nuisance caused by low-flying aircraft over built-up areas in Rugby; and what steps he is taking to curb this contravention of regulations.

As far as I know, there has been no low flying by Royal Air Force aircraft over Rugby. If the hon. Member has any particular incident in mind, perhaps he would let me have details?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this low flying by jets terrifies youngsters in my constituency? I can give him some information; will he take some action in the matter if and when I do so?

I would be very grateful for anything the hon. Member can tell me, but we have checked with the local police and they have received no complaint and seen no low flying.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a statement about the recent court of inquiry at Wahnerheide.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a statement on the recent courts-martial proceedings at Wahn.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Devonport (Mr. Foot) for bringing to my notice last November allegations of irregularities at the Royal Air Force Detention Unit, Wahnerheide. Exhaustive inquiries were put in hand at once. As a result, disciplinary action has been taken against two officers; while seven non-commissioned officers have been convicted by court-martial.

After considering the findings of the court of inquiry set up by the Commander-in-Chief, Second Tactical Air Force, to examine the administration of the unit, we have decided to make several changes there. The proportion of senior non-commissioned officers has been increased and the staff chosen from older men with previous experience of this type of work. Arrangements have also been made to ensure closer supervision of the unit. My noble Friend considers that these measures should prevent any recurrence of these unfortunate incidents.

Is the Minister aware that the events which took place at this detention barracks were a real shock to the public and did great harm to the good name of the Royal Air Force? Can he give a complete assurance that this is not likely to take place again? Was not the real trouble the lack of supervision, and can he say what punishments were awarded to the officers in charge?

Certainly we realise that these incidents were most unfortunate and did shock the public. We have done all we possibly could to bring those responsible to justice and to take every step to prevent a recurrence. The various sentences awarded to those convicted by court-martial I would rather send to the hon. Member.

Whilst thanking the Minister for the action he took in this case, may I ask if he does not think it would be proper to say a word of tribute to the aircraftman who took his courage in both hands and was responsible for revealing the whole of this appalling business, particularly in view of some reflections cast on him in the court-martial proceedings? Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that sufficient action has been taken against the officers who were not on trial but who were really partially responsible for this horrible business?

On the first part of the supplementary question, of course we are very glad that this matter was brought to light. On the second part, there is no evidence whatever to warrant court-martial proceedings being taken against the two officers concerned. None of the prisoners who gave evidence against the N.C.Os. indicated that the commandant or any other officer was conniving at the ill treatment, but disciplinary action has been taken against them because they were responsible for administration.

I think I did send evidence to the hon. Gentleman which does indicate that some of the officers were aware of some of the treatment meted out in the detention camp; has he that evidence? Would the hon. Gentleman also go a little further in paying tribute to the man who went into the detention camp and gained the evidence which exposed this horrible business as, if it were not for his courage, nothing would have been known about it? Surely a better tribute should be paid to him for the work he did for the whole of the Royal Air Force?

Certainly, but I think it is a pity that no complaint was made earlier when he was in the unit. There were regular visits made by medical officers, chaplains and so on, but no complaint was made until he had left the unit, although it might have been possible to stop it earlier.

The hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that this aircraftman rendered a public service by doing what he did?

Yes, certainly.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the capital cost to date of London Airport and the annual cost of its operation, including capital and depreciation charges, and fees paid for the use of its facilities.

The capital cost of London Airport met from Civil Aviation Votes up to 31st March, 1954, was approximately £19 million. In addition, about £1½ million has been spent on purchase of land and certain costs incurred outside the airport. The annual cost of operating the airport, excluding capital and depreciation charges (for which, on aerodromes, there is no recognised basis of assessment), is about £900,000. Fees paid for the use of the aerodrome's facilities and other revenue at present total about £840,000 per annum.

As London Airport is equivalent to a railway station, it must be losing £1 million a year. May I ask if that is not, in effect, another subsidy to the various air services using it?

I cannot accept that London Airport is equivalent to a railway station. There is a great difference indeed. Moreover, the revenue from London Airport is progressively increasing. We expect a very substantial increase in this next year when the facilities in the central area are open.

If I put down a Question on the Order Paper will the Minister tell me the rateable value of the land before purchase?

If the right hon. Gentleman will put down a Question I will do my best to answer it.

Is it not desirable that London Airport and airports generally in the United Kingdom should compare favourably, or on equal terms, with airports in other countries?

I think that London Airport does compare very favourably, and that this House has every reason to be extremely proud both of London Airport and all our other airports.

Is not the annual interest charge on this enterprise about £1 million a year?

How much for the landlords?

No, Sir. My hon. Friend has got the matter slightly out of proportion. There is no waste at London Airport. Its revenue is going up every year. If my hon. Friend would put down another Question in about two years' time, I should be able to give him a satisfactory answer.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what revenue is obtained, as the result of the equipment and ancillary services, the estimated cost of which in the year ended 31st March, 1954, amounted to £774,600.

The group of equipment and ancillary services referred to is provided as an integral part of the civil aviation ground services organisation in the United Kingdom. Rather over half of this expenditure is related directly to safety in the air and cannot be accurately balanced against any item of revenue. The rest is related to safety on the ground and to the ancillary expenditure on ground equipment, being a contribution to the ground services which in the period under review realised a revenue of £1,269,000.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress has been made with the electrification of the London and Tilbury line.

The British Transport Commission tell me that the technical planning for this electrification scheme is well in hand. The plans for the engineering works at Barking, which include a new fly-over and complete re- construction of the station, are nearly complete. These and other preliminary engineering works, some of which have been started, must precede the electrification itself and will take some years to complete.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the present time limit fixed by him under Section 76 of the Transport Act, 1947, for the submission of a railway charges scheme by the British Transport Com- mission to the Transport Tribunal.

6th August, 1955, Sir.

The Minister will appreciate that his reply was rather unexpected and very welcome. Does he realise that this question of freight charges and charges generally—certainly in the Highland area—is becoming impossible and that it is hoped that these charges will prove satisfactory?

Is it not a fact that a charges scheme would have long ago been introduced if the Commission had not been interfered with by the 1953 Act?

Answering the last supplementary question first, I am certain that the charges scheme, because of the 1953 Act, will give more local autonomy than otherwise would have been possible. In reply to my hon. Friend, and in addition to what I have said, as he knows, the Commission have assured me that it hopes to produce a railway freight charges scheme very early, and well before the date that I have given in my answer.