Estimates
14.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, why only £578,000 is included in the Civil Estimates for the Directorate of Scientific and Industrial Research when a figure of £900,000 was officially forecast by a spokesman of his Ministry on 8th December, 1953.
This is a misunderstanding here. In my reply of 8th December 1953, I stated that the annual net Vote would be increased by £900,000 over a period of five years. I have every reason to suppose this will happen. In the present financial year the published estimate for the Department is £6¼ million, an increase of £578,000 over last year of which £230,000 is part of the projected expansion.
Is not a great deal of the figure to which I have referred in the Question already being spent on European nuclear physics and, therefore, does not come within this particular expenditure forecast at all, which was supposed to be for research projects in this country? Is not the sum totally inadequate?
No, Sir. The figure of £578,000 of course includes certain grants-in-aid such as the hon. Member refers to, but there has, in fact been a substantial net increase quite apart from these.
Staff (Recruitment)
15.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works as representing the Lord President of the Council, how far the proposals announced in 1946 for the recruitment of additional persons to the Directorate of Scientific and Industrial Research have exceeded or fallen short of that objective.
The 1946 plans for the eventual expansion of the staff of the Department contemplated an increase in non-industrial staff to about 4,000. The total on 1st July, 1954, was 3,108. It is intended to increase this staff to 3,900 by 1959.
Would the hon. Gentleman tell us what active steps he is taking to get personnel now so that the Department can get on with this important work?
The non-industrial staff of the D.S.I.R. is increasing all the time. The number of non-industrial staff employed in 1949 was 2,500; today it is 3,100.
Will the hon. Gentleman say whether there is likely to be any slowing down in the provision of the laboratories as a result of Treasury interference?
None, Sir.
Sulphate-Reducing Bacteria
16.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, how many staff are employed, and what is the expenditure of the Directorate of Scientific and Industrial Research, on work on the effects of sulphate-reducing bacteria.
About 12 people are working at the Chemical Research Laboratory on the effects of sulphate-reducing bacteria. The total cost of the research is about £13,000 a year.
Programme And Activities
17.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what activities of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research are included in the 5 per cent. of its programme for which no resources are to be made available between now and 1959.
On 8th December last, I stated that by 1959 the total resources of the Department should be adequate to cover some 95 per cent. of the activities projected in the plans covered by its 1947–48 Report. This statement did not imply that any specific activity would be omitted but only that the general level of activity would be about 5 per cent. less.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that does not alter the position at all, that what he has said simply confirms that some part of the programme of the Department which was considered to be essential will not be done, whether it be 5 per cent. of one section or 5 per cent. of another? What my Question sought to elicit is what is it that was projected which will not be done? Surely the hon. Member can tell me that.
Yes, but the 5 per cent. is not one project or another; it is spread over the general activities of the D.S.I.R. I might add that the gross expenditure on the D.S.I.R. has increased from £5–8 million in 1952 to £7 million in the current year.
But is the hon. Gentleman aware that that is no increase in real expenditure? Why does he evade a simple question which seeks to find out what it is that is being dropped?
I have already said that no specific project has been dropped. As to the former part of the Question, I have already given an answer and do not wish to repeat myself.
Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the loss in efficiency that is indicated by the decrease in expenditure might have been made up if money had not been spent so readily on Lord Vansittart's house, of which we have had no notice?
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a little apprehension, especially in East Kilbride, about the slowing down of this work, and is he aware that there is not any real economy in holding up scientific and industrial research, because our future depends on our efficiency?
I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. Since the planned expansion was agreed by the Treasury some months ago, progress has been made and will continue to be made.
18.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, whether he is now in a position to state what are the non-permanent and additional functions which were envisaged for the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research in his statement of 8th December last.
My statement referred to provision for certain services which are not a permanent part of the Department's activities. The only existing service of any size in this category is the making of grants to universities for nuclear physics research. My reference to additional liabilities was to cover any new responsibilities which the Department might have to assume. Cases in point relate to the grant-in-aid for the European Organisation for Nuclear Research, for which additional funds are provided in the Department's current Estimates, and activities in the field of industrial productivity financed under Conditional Aid.
Whilst thanking the hon. Gentleman for that information, might I ask him whether these additional and non-permanent activities are not being financed to some extent at the cost of the regular functions of the Department, since, although there is a separate allocation of money, that allocation is used to pretend that there is an increase in the budget of the Department whereas, in fact, there is not?
No, Sir, that is not so. In fact, the money for the financing of the European Organisation for Nuclear Research was financed initially by a Supplementary Estimate which was put before the House. The research on industrial productivity is financed by Conditional Aid, and the grants for the universities are an integral part of the financial backing of D.S.I.R.
Corrosion (Buried Pipes)
19.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, how many persons are engaged, and what sum is being spent in the current year, on Government-sponsored research into the problems of the corrosion of buried pipes.
About six people are employed. The annual cost of the research is about £6,000.
Is the Minister aware that the cost of this underground pipe corrosion in the country has been estimated at about £5 million a year? Is he further aware that this work is progressing very slowly because there is not sufficient staff, and is he satisfied with this situation?
Of course, this work at the Chemical Research Laboratory on the corrosion of pipes is part of a very large programme of research into corrosion generally. I do not disagree with the hon. Gentleman when he says it is very important economically, and it is not a matter which will be lost sight of.