With permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement on the Report of the Committee of Inquiry into Breaches of Security at the Underwater Detection Establishment at Portland.

The Government are greatly indebted to Sir Charles Romer and his colleagues for the speed and thoroughness with which they have investigated the circumstances of this case. Their Report is based on an exhaustive examination of a very considerable body of evidence and its conclusions are unanimous. In view of the special secrecy of some of the matters which the Committee had to investigate, I am satisfied that it would not be in the public interest to publish the full text of its Report. I am, however, arranging for a summary of its findings, which the Government accept, to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

These findings fall broadly into three groups First, the Committee criticises, in general terms, certain defects in the Admiralty organisation for implementing security policy and procedures. Secondly, it criticises certain individuals at Portland for specific shortcomings in maintaining adequate security. Thirdly, it finds that no blame attaches to the immigration authorities and that the counter-espionage operations of the Security Service in this case were carried out with efficiency.

The first group of these findings is of special relevance to the current examination by the Radcliffe Committee of security procedures in the public service as a whole, and the Romer Report has, therefore, been referred to that Committee, which will, I am sure, take full account of it in its inquiry. Without prejudice to any recommendations which may be made by the Radcliffe Committee, the Board of Admiralty is taking steps, first, to review its internal organisation for implementing security policy in the light of the critcisms of the Romer Committee, and, secondly, to impress upon all its staffs the need for strict compliance with security instructions.

The Admiralty is also considering what action should be taken as regards the individuals specifically blamed by the Romer Report.

The House will, no doubt, wish to put further questions to the Prime Minister after hon. Members have had an opportunity of looking at the summary which is to be circulated. May I ask the Prime Minister whether, for the convenience of hon. Members, copies of the summary could be made available in the Library today, since, presumably, the Press will have the summary? I think that many hon. Members would wish to see it straight away.

Meanwhile, since it appears from what the Prime Minister has told us that the Report is severely critical of the Admiralty in this matter, may I ask him three questions?

First, is the Admiralty taking steps to tighten up the security arrangements, not only at the Underwater Detection Establishment at Portland, but also in all Admiralty establishments?

Secondly, was the Committee satisfied with the arrangements for liaison between the Admiralty and the security services, and, if not, what steps are being taken to put this right?

Thirdly, on the question of Ministerial responsibility, may I ask him which Minister is responsible for seeing that there is proper security in the Admiralty? Is it the First Lord of the Admiralty, or will the general question of Ministerial responsibility, and the possible reversion to the Prime Minister's office of the Security Service, be considered by the Radcliffe Committee?

I have arranged that copies of the summary should be placed in the Library now.

On the steps which the First Lord and the Board of Admiralty are taking, not only in connection with this particular naval establishment but in all naval establishments, which includes in that phrase Admiralty Headquarters itself, while waiting for any further proposals made by the Radcliffe Committee, to carry out the proposals and suggestions of the Romer Committee, that is being done.

I am studying the liaison between the Security Service and the Departments. I am bound to say that I think that it is better in some Departments than in others, although I still think that we do not want to have an independent Security Service—a Gestapo—for that has great dangers. I think that we must not push this to the other extreme and say that it has no rights and is called in only when the Department wants it. We have to get a balance between the extreme position of a police operating on its own and the absolute right of its not being able to operate until it is sent for by the Department. I think that is what the right hon. Gentleman means by liaison, and though it can be improved, it already works better in some Departments than others.

On the question of Ministerial responsibility, I still think that each Minister must be responsible for security in his own Department, unless it hands over the whole thing to an outside police force, which, I believe, would be contrary to our traditions and character. At the same time, on the question of responsibility, the actual responsibility at present rests on the Home Secretary, who is responsible for the security forces, their discipline, pay and organisation, but I retain a general responsibility for seeing that security is maintained. I think that from the Radcliffe Committee we may get a method of getting the advantages of better liaison without the disadvantages of making it subject to an outside independent police system.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether the Romer Committee saw those security officers who had special knowledge and who volunteered to give information to the Committee? In other words, did the Committee get down to the people who had the knowledge and consider their knowledge?

Yes, Sir. Of course, a Committee of this character naturally took evidence from the Security Service and made every possible use of its evidence.

Do we understand from the Prime Minister's statement that, where laxity of administration under the existing procedure has been established, certain civil servants in the establish- ment are to be disciplined? If so, is the question of the disciplining of any particular person to be left entirely to the First Lord of the Admiralty? Will the First Lord be making a statement in due course as to which employees are to be disciplined and what punishments are being imposed?

I do not want to go into that further, except to say that the Admiralty is now considering it. I must point out that when hon. Members have read the summary, they can ask further questions. As to the three persons criticised, one officer retired three years ago, another officer is due to retire within a month, and the third was a very junior executive—I think that he is called an Executive Officer of the Civil Service. The Admiralty will take the proper proceedings. I think it right to say that.

Do not the facts leading to this inquiry and the result of this inquiry show that on many occasions people inside the Service may be suspect, and if they are, necessarily, rightly or wrongly, inquiries have to be made into their conduct, and is it not quite wrong that the people doing that should be criticised for indulging in a witch hunt?

That is the difficult balance which we have to get. Hon. Members will read the summary. What I say broadly is that the general system of security and the rules, though they may be altered by the Radcliffe Committee's Report, are not altogether unsatisfactory, but they have not been applied, I think, as efficiently by the procedures adopted by the Admiralty.

Is the Prime Minister aware that two or three years ago there was considerable disquiet about the security arrangements in the Admiralty over the Commander Crabb affair? Is it made clear in that Report that there have been some improvements since then, or are these continuing troubles from that time until now?

I think that that matter is rather a different question. The Crabb affair was wholly different from this. This is really a question whether the security system as regards establishments—it spreads right out into the contractors—is sufficient, given the pressures to which we are now subjected. I think that this report would be a great help to the Admiralty, and I know that the First Lord intends to implement the proposals. When we receive the Radcliffe Committee's Report, we shall have the advantage of all this evidence and then see whether some of the Radcliffe suggestions have to be adopted, and on that, I should like to suspend judgment. I have the greatest confidence in the members of the Radcliffe Committee. I think that it will give us a balanced Report, which will not go to the one extreme or the other.

Visiting responsibility, as I gather, on junior members of the establishment is hardly enough, is it? Would the Prime Minister say where Ministerial responsibility lies, and who is to accept responsibility for this, he himself or some other member of his Administration?

Perhaps the right hon. Member will wait until he has read the summary. I think that he will then see what the situation is. Certain improvements can be made and will be made. Responsibility lies, of course, with Ministers for everything that goes wrong—the First Lord and the collective Government as a whole. Of course, Ministers never get credit for things which go right, but they take responsibility for everything which goes wrong. I think that the approach we ought to make is to see how we can improve the situation without putting undue pressures on individuals.

That did not seem to deal with the question. The Prime Minister was at pains to tell us that somebody had resigned, somebody was about to resign, and somebody was very junior. I am asking him which Minister is to accept responsibility for a very considerable breakdown and what he proposes to do with that Minister?

The right hon. Member will perhaps read the summary and then put further questions. Of course Ministers are responsible. I am responsible, the First Lord is responsible and the Government as a whole are responsible, but that is true of every action taken by any civil servant throughout the whole country.

rose—

I think that we had better get on.