asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what representations have been made by Her Majesty's Government to the Government of the Federation of the Rhodesias and Nyasaland regarding the deportation of Mr. Crawford Lyall, a United Kingdom citizen.

None, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Crawford Lyall was a volunteer in the Colonial Service attached to the security forces, that his conscience would not allow him to continue in the kind of work he was asked to do, that he associated with Africans, that he was adopted as a candidate for the Independence Party and three days later was ordered to be deported without any charge being made against him? Are the Government not going to protect British citizens when they are in a position like that?

No, Sir. Immigration is a responsibility of the Federal Government. The Immigration Act under which Mr. Lyall was declared a prohibited immigrant empowers the Federal Government so to declare anyone not a Federal citizen or born in the Federation on grounds specified in Section 5 (1) of the Act. There are therefore no legal grounds on which representations could be made.

While fully realising that immigration is, of course, a Federal matter, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he could not make a protest? Would he not make a protest if it were a foreign country completely responsible for its own affairs if the person were a British subject?

If evidence were brought to my right hon. Friend's notice suggesting that the circumstances in which the deportation was effected had caused hardship, I am sure that he would consider whether representations would be justified on that score, but Mr. Lyall has made no such representation to us.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will instruct the United Kingdom representative on the Commonwealth Education Liaison Unit to propose that United States observers be invited to the Second Commonwealth Education Conference in Delhi in January, 1962, in view of the importance of obtaining the closest possible co-operation with the United States of America in the field of educational aid within the Commonwealth.

There is no precedent, so far as I am aware, for the attendance of foreign representatives at an official Commonwealth Conference, even as observers, and I think that it would be preferable to adhere to the established practice in this matter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this question was meant to be helpful and to be a constructive proposal for the Government's consideration? If the hon. Gentleman is talking about precedents, is he aware that there is very little precedent for a Commonwealth system of educational co-operation and that this is something new? Would he not agree, in view of the scale of American help in education in the Commonwealth, that it is important to avoid overlapping and waste of precious educational resources?

I am quite aware that the hon. Member's suggestion was advanced in a helpful way. Her Majesty's Government fully recognise the importance of maintaining the closest co-operation with the United States on educational aid to under-developed countries, especially those in the Commonwealth, but this is an official Commonwealth Conference. I would invite the hon. Member to discuss the matter with me further.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations which Commonwealth countries have indicated their encouragement of the entrance of the United Kingdom into the Common Market.

I assume the hon. Member is referring to communications received from Commonwealth Governments. I would refer him to the first part of the reply that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave to a Question by the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) on 1st June.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the communications to which he refers set out specifically which countries have indicated their encouragement positively rather than those which have indicated discouragement?

I do not agree. I think there is a general understanding of and sympathy for our position throughout the Commonwealth. Perhaps I should add to what has been said on this, that, as the House is aware, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and the Ministers of Aviation and Labour are at this moment visiting between them all the Commonwealth capitals with a view to discussing with Commonwealth Governments the problems of the future relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Economic Community.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are the gravest possible misgivings about this in New Zealand? How soon are we likely to receive a report as a result of the right hon. Gentleman's discussions in New Zealand?

Whether there are misgivings or not, the whole purpose of my right hon. Friend's visit is to have consultations with New Zealand's leaders. A statement must await his return.

Would it not be interesting if the hon. Gentleman told us what he thinks about it? Does he realise that if some people—

It might be interesting, but it would be wholly out of order.

Do hon. Members opposite not think?

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what facilities w

The South West Africa Committee have requested transport and accommodation facilities in the Maun area of the Bechuanaland Protectorate and we have asked the Administration of the Bechuanaland Protectorate to do their best to meet the Committee's requirements, despite the difficulties of providing facilities in that remote area.

While welcoming that reply, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he would consider going a little further? Is he aware that the Government of the Union have said that this mission will not be accepted in South West Africa? Is he aware that there is an airstrip just inside the Bechuanaland border where the D.C.3 aircraft could land if it were not allowed to land in South West Africa? Is the hon. Gentleman also aware that the Herero tribes are evicted into Bechuanaland, that witnesses could be obtained there, and that it would be possible for the mission to obtain a good deal of evidence if it is not allowed into South West Africa itself?

So far we have accepted the two requests that the Committee has made to us. If it makes further requests to us for facilities, I am sure that we would look at them with sympathy.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what arrangements have now been made for the determination of a capital in Bechuanaland, and for the complete transfer of administration thereto.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will make a statement on the moving of the capital of Bechuanaland.

The location at Mafeking of the administrative headquarters of the Bechuanaland Protectorate is a survival from earlier days, and it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to move it into the Protectorate as soon as circumstances permit. But a number of practical problems are involved, particularly of water supply. Moreover, the cost, which will be substantial, needs to be considered with other claims on the finance available.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the transference of the capital into Bechuanaland is desirable at the earliest possible moment? Is it not incongruous and an affront to the dignity of Bechuanaland that it should meanwhile be administered from a place outside the country and, indeed, in a foreign country?

Yes, Sir; I agree, subject, of course, to the consideration that there are many claims upon available finance for the development of Bechuanaland. However, we are addressing ourselves to this question, and perhaps I can leave it there.

Does my hon. Friend realise how welcome this statement will be to many hundreds of thousands of loyal British subjects who have at last got an "in principle" decision from Her Majesty's Government? However, might I ask him what implementation the Minister has in mind for his welcome intention? Has he decided where the capital shall be moved to, and how quickly will he be able to carry out his intention?

A preliminary investigation of possible sites has recently been made, but it is clear from this that a more detailed survey is required. My right hon. Friend is considering, with the High Commissioner, how best this can be conducted. As to my hon. Friend's second point about when I shall be able to make a further statement, a thorough survey will have to be made with particular regard to water, and that will take some time, and I should not like to forecast a date. Thirdly, one site has been investigated, but, as I say, a great deal more information is required before we can make a final decision.

Is my hon. Friend consulting all the necessary people in Bechuanaland before this decision is made? It is essential that there should be complete consultation with the people about where their capital shall be.

Yes, Sir; that will be perhaps the most important consideration of all.

In expediting the decision, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the desirability of moving the High Commission offices themselves into the High Commission Territories?

I will take note of what the hon. Gentleman says.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what steps are being taken to end segregation in schools in the High Commission Territories.

There is no segregation in Basutoland schools.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that the education system in the schools of the High Commission Territories has been integrated in the past with the education system of the Union? In view of the new situation, will he ensure that the whole thing is looked at afresh and that there is no sort of impression that the schools in the High Commission Terri- tories are to continue on a basis of educational apartheid?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how many concessions to prospect and mine for diamonds in Basutoland are still valid; and how many of these are at present being worked.

One concession to prospect and mine for diamonds has been granted.

Are there no outstanding concessions now which are not being worked? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have received rather disturbing information which suggests that there is one which has been outstanding for years and has not been worked? Would he not agree that it is thoroughly desirable that all concessions likely to prove fruitful should be now worked in the interests of the people of Basutoland?

I entirely agree with the last part of the supplementary question. The new draft agreement, which is a very long and complicated document, is being examined now by a Select Committee of the Basutoland National Council.

Is it a draft agreement to extend a concession which has been in existence for several years and has not been used?

I do not know. I think that the right hon. Gentleman should put a Question on the Order Paper on that point. Nor do I think that I should comment at this stage on a matter which is before the Select Committee of the Basutoland National Council.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will state the conditions imposed by Her Majesty's Government on the granting of permission for a railway to be built across Swaziland.

The question whether a railway should be built across Swaziland is still under consideration.

When it is considered, will the hon. Gentleman see that some advantage is given to Swaziland and that it is not merely for the benefit of the people on either side?

Certainly, Sir.

How will the hon. Gentleman see to it that apartheid is not practised on this railway service if it is to be a South African railway?

Who will operate the railway is a matter which is under consideration. There will be no question of the racial policies of any country outside the Commonwealth being applied to Swaziland.

They are in Basutoland.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what representations are being made to the Government of Cyprus for the extradition of Andreas Afamis in connection with inquiries into the shooting of Arthur Lee in 1958.

As my right hon. Friend stated in his reply on the 22nd June to Questions by the hon. Members for Swindon (Mr. F. Noel-Baker) and Huddersfield, West (Mr. Wade), we are consulting with the Government of Cyprus about the difficulty revealed by the recent abortive extradition proceedings.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that it is an absurd anomaly that Cypriots can come to this country and enjoy the full rights of citizenship and yet cannot be brought to justice in connection with crimes committed here? If my hon. Friend's representations to the Cyprus Government on this matter fail, will he consult with his Government colleagues with a view to curbing the immigration of Cypriots into this country until the matter is settled to our satisfaction?

As to the first part of that supplementary question, the difficulty in this case arises from the declaration of rights in the new Constitution, which provides that no Cypriot citizen may be deported in any circumstances. A full and satisfactory solution can clearly only lie in an amendment of the Cyprus Constitution. As to my hon. Friend's last suggestion, immigration to this country is the responsibility of the Home Secretary.

On a point of order. I put this Question down to the Home Secretary in the first instance and it was transferred to the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations. Does this not east discredit on Parliamentary procedure?

No, it does not, because the Question does not refer to immigration.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to increase the number of teachers of mathematics.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Costain) on 13th June.

Can the right hon. Gentleman, in the first place, tell us when the proposed conference with the universities is to be held? Secondly, would he not agree that the progress in this matter has been extremely dilatory? Is he not aware that a very strong warning on the difficulties was given in the Government Report on Scientific Manpower issued in 1959? Does he not think that his reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey), that it was not until 26th May of this year that a formal approach was made to the Vice-Chancellors, shows that the Government have not taken adequate steps?

I cannot say exactly when the conference will take place, because it is under the auspices of the universities and it is for them to decide this. On the training college side, I think we have been making steady progress for a long time. I quite agree that the difficulty is that we do not get enough graduates as mathematics teachers, but I hope that now that the universities are seized of the problem things will improve.

What has the right hon. Gentleman done about graduates since he received warnings some years ago? Does he realise that it is a shortage which can have really disastrous effects unless something is done?

I can do things only in the field for which I am responsible, which is the training colleges. Otherwise I can only persuade. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I really believe that the universities now see the importance of the problem.

asked the Minister of Education if he will consult with institutes of education, university extramural departments and local education authorities with a view to establishing an increased number of evening courses for teachers of mathematics at all levels.

Last November I asked local education authorities to take the initiative in providing local courses for serving teachers in those subjects, such as mathematics, in which there is a shortage of well qualified teachers. Institutes of Education have been asked to collaborate closely with the authorities in this matter. I will ask university extra-mural departments to consider if they can help.

Is the right hon. Gentleman doing a little more than persuading? Is he providing increased grants so that the extra cost will not fall on the authorities concerned?

I must first see whether the extra-mural departments are willing to put on any courses at all.

asked the Minister of Education if he will consult with the larger employers of mathematicians, physcists and chemists with a view to their making available for the schools a proportion their staff.

Yes, Sir, this is a suggestion on which I must first consult the local authorities and teachers.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make it abundantly clear that if industry does not ration itself there may not be any industrial scientists for industry later on?

Yes, Sir: but I think the hon. Gentleman will know that industry is already lending a great many teachers of science and mathematics to the technical colleges, and the question is whether they can do something for the schools as well. It is clearly not such an interesting territory for them as the technical colleges.

But it is more important.

asked the Minister of Education what research is being conducted into the teaching of mathematics in junior schools.

Research into the different methods of teaching mathematics in primary schools is being undertaken by the National Foundation for Educational Research. Close attention is also being given to the teaching of mathematics in primary schools by a number of bodies and individuals, including Her Majesty's Inspectorate, training colleges and university departments of education, teachers and local education authorities. Many local short courses for teachers are being arranged, which usually result in the setting up of study groups for informal research.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if one goes round training colleges and primary schools one finds that a great deal of experimental work is being carried out in this extremely important field? In mathematics teaching generally, will he take a special interest in seeing that the result of these experiments are diffused throughout the teaching service, including among some of the older teachers who may not be aware of modern methods?

Yes. That is very important.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there could be a vast saving in mathematics teaching if the country were to simplify its money sums by going over to a decimal currency?

That is a disputed point.

asked the Minister of Education what was the net increase in mathematics and science graduates teaching senior children in maintained primary and secondary schools for the latest available 12-month period.

The net increase in the year ending March, 1960, was 783. This was nearly five times the net increase five years earlier.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that it is encouraging that this marks an increase over the previous year but that there is still a very big demand to be met? In view of the relative success which he has had so far, will he redouble his efforts to see that we get more graduates?

I hope and feel confident that the expansion of the universities will help us to do so.

asked the Minister of Education when he expects to reach a decision regarding the proposed extensions to St. Clare's Primary School, Blackley, Manchester, which are necessary to bring it to standard as a two-form entry school.

The proposal as submitted was not entirely clear and I have asked the local education authority for further information.

Does my right hon. Friend recall that it was on 15th August last year that I first wrote to him about the matter, and that it was on 21st April this year that the proposals were approved and sent forward to him by the local authority? Does he realise that meanwhile there are 650 children in this school, it has only nine permanent classrooms and that there are more than 50 children in many classes? Is he aware that, in view of the increasing child population in the parish, the matter is extremely urgent?

As soon as I get proposals which are clear—that is to say, which say exactly how much the extension is to be—I will consider them urgently.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he takes to secure that liaison exists between his medical officers and doctors in the general health service.

The main function of the Ministry's medical officers is to advise on the school health service arrangements made by local education authorities. Their advice has done much to foster good local co-operation between school medical officers and doctors in the National Health Service.

Does my hon. Friend accept the importance of warning parents in respect of the outbreak of certain non-notifiable infectious diseases? I have particularly in mind rubella and its very dangerous effect on pregnant mothers. Does any system exist for the immediate notification of doctors in the general health service on the outbreak of rubella in schools?

As I think my hon. Friend knows, that disease is not a notifiable one, but we are aware of its importance and very concerned that proper steps should be taken to avoid allowing it to spread.

Will my hon. Friend therefore use his influence with the Minister of Health to make rubella a notifiable disease?

The chief school medical officer is also the Chief Medical Officer of the Ministry of Health, and so we work very closely together in this matter as in other matters.

asked the Minister of Education if he will issue a circular to education authorities suggesting that, where practicable, arrangements should be made for secondary school pupils to pay at least one visit to a coal mine.

I am anxious that secondary school pupils should gain first hand knowledge of the way the country's work is done. Visits to coal mines and other establishments are best left to local arrangement.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it would be a very useful part of anybody's education to have to crawl 300 yards in a coal mine in a 4 ft. seam? A large number of hon. Members have never had this experience. If the right hon. Gentleman would like to have that experience, would he care to come with me, like the Eton boys, to educate himself?

I have had this experience, and I enjoyed it.

How long?

asked the Minister of Education whether he is aware of the danger that the work of the Chelsea Pottery will be brought to an end through property development; and, in view of the educational and cultural value of the work of this pottery, whether he will make a grant to enable them to continue their activities.

I have seen Press reports; but I have received no application for grant which, under the Further Education (Grant) Regulations, could only be considered if educational and training facilities were the principal purpose of the pottery.

Is the right hon. Gentleman familiar with the work of this pottery and with its international reputation? Is he aware of the fact that it is of very great value in training teachers as well as students? Would he be willing to receive a deputation from all walks of life in Chelsea with a view to preserving this institution?

Yes—if the deputation comes complete with proof that educational purposes are the principal object of the establishment.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to establish a technical college in Newcastle-under-Lyme.

The first instalment of the Newcastle-under-Lyme College of Further Education has been included in the 1962–63 building programme, at an estimated gross cost of £178,000. The schedule of accommodation was approved last December and the submission of sketch plans by the local education authority is awaited.

Is it possible for the right hon. Gentleman to consider expanding and expediting this project? Is he aware that recent difficulties—which I am very grateful to him for helping to overcome—have illustrated the great need for more technical facilities in North Staffordshire generally? Will he therefore do everything possible to get the greatest expansion in Newcastle-under-Lyme at the earliest possible date?

Yes. I agree that there is this need, and I will do what I can.

asked the Minister of Education how many additional teachers would be required to eliminate oversize classes in maintained and assisted schools by 1970, for junior pupils and for senior pupils, respectively.

Estimates made last year show that 25,000 additional teachers would be required for juniors and 48,000 for seniors, but new calculations now in progress suggest provisionally that the total of these figures will need to be revised upwards by between 5 and 10 per cent.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that, in the light of these figures, the steps which he has taken to support the increased numbers attending training colleges are inadequate? Something dramatic must be done if we are to meet the demand for more teachers.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are several sources for recruiting teachers, but as far as the colleges are concerned the expansion programme which we have at the moment is just about as big as we can manage.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to say whether the expanded teacher college programme which he has in operation will be able to cope with the provision of the extra teachers demanded in order to eliminate over-sized classes and the extra number required by Crowther by 1970?

I cannot say that because I cannot tell what the wastage will be over these years.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how much of the £389,000 spent on accommodation for British troops in the Cameroons was contributed by the Colonial Office; and how long this accommodation will have been used when the troops leave this year; and how much of this expenditure will be recovered from the Nigerian and Cameroon Republic Governments, respectively.

Half the cost will be met by the Colonial Office from the Colonial Services Vote. The accommodation will have been occupied for just over a year when the troops leave the Southern Cameroons on 1st October. No part of this expenditure will be recovered from the Governments of Nigeria or the Cameroon Republic.

Is it a fact that permanent buildings were put up for occupation for just over a year? How does my hon. Friend justify this expenditure?

In the extraordinarily high rainfall in this area it is essential to put up buildings which will last for some time. I think that the steps we have taken are entirely justified.

asked the Secretary of Stale for the Colonies whether he is now satisfied about the expenses of Mr. Barker-Benfield when chairman of the Malta Tourist Board; whether he is satisfied that the request of the Malta Tourist Board for a public inquiry is not justified; and if he will make a statement.

The Governor is satisfied that no inquiry is called for and my right hon. Friend accepts this.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, having seen Mr. Barker-Benfield after the debate in this House, I am delighted that he is presumably completely cleared of the criticism which was at that time being vented in Malta? But does this also mean that the Tourist Board's desire for an inquiry has not been allowed because, possibly, the Malta Government might feel that they want to hide same inefficiency on their part in their work with the Board?

No, I do not think so. The Board is satisfied that the rates paid were suitable and acceptable. The accounts are being studied and we have nothing further to add.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what agreements were made with the Phoenicia Hotel before the last war concerning hotel and other developments for tourism in Malta; how far these agreements have now been modified; and which directors of the Phoenicia Hotel are concerned with the Tourist Board of Malta and the development of other hotels on the island.

In 1938 the Malta Hotels Company was granted a 150 years lease of the site of the Phoenicia Hotel. A clause in the relevant deed restricted the Malta Government's freedom to grant any concessions or sites for competing hotels. In June, 1960, terms for the waiver of this clause were negotiated with the company. The managing director of the company is a member of the Tourist Board. So far as I am aware, he is not connected with any other hotel development in Malta.

Does that mean that the Phoenicia Hotel has no longer the power, which, I understand, it used to have, of issuing writs every time Mr. Barker-Benfield and his organisation tried to bring in new hotels to develop the tourist industry to prevent this happening?

That is correct. This removes a restrictive clause, which will be of great benefit to the tourist industry in Malta.

How much money is involved in the terms of the waiver of this clause?

The terms are very satisfactory to the Malta Government. Instead of 150-year leases, I understand that they will be in perpetuity. At the same time, the Malta Government's further liability to under-write the liability of the company's debenture stock has been waived. The Malta Government are thoroughly satisfied.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has considered a letter sent to him by the Malta Labour Party with reference to violations of the principles of democracy, the denial of human rights and the suppression of free speech; what reply he has sent; and if he will arrange for a deputation of all parties of this House to visit the island.

Yes, and my right hon. Friend has replied that he cannot accept the imputations made in the letter. He sees no need for an all-party delegation at the present time.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the allegations in the letter concerning persecution, intimidation and suppression of free speech, are very serious and that three men are being prosecuted because they put up posters outside their clubs, which other clubs are permitted to do? Does not this justify the inquiry by the Secretary of State into the circumstances? Will he hold one?

No. This arose from a meeting held on 21st May on Gozo. The object was to persuade Gozitans to boycott the Gozo civil council election. For this purpose about 1,500 members of the Malta Labour Party arrived in the island of Gozo, much to the distress of the people of Gozo, who considered it to be interference in local affairs. Furthermore, crops were destroyed by the visitors, and if it had not been for police action there might have been serious outbreaks of violence. The police are to be warmly commended on the steps they took.

Without wishing to take part in Maltese politics, may I ask, in view of what the Under-Secretary of State has just said, and of the disturbing information which reaches hon. Members on both sides of the House, whether he will reconsider the suggestion put by my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Awbery) that a delegation from this House should go to see for itself and whether it could perhaps exert a mediatory influence?

I do not think that that supplementary question arises from this meeting. I have made it clear that in this instance the police carried out their duties perfectly. There was, in my view, provocation by certain members of the Malta Labour Party who went to Gozo.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) to what extent he intends, at the time of bringing into operation the new proposed Constitution for Malta, to bring into use also a modernised system of electoral laws, including the abolition of voting certificates; and when the work of modernisation is to begin;

The electoral laws have been reviewed by Electoral Commissioners and proposals for their revision are now being considered by the Governor.

Can my hon. Friend say whether these proposals will be made public and whether the House will have an opportunity for any debate which may ensue on the constitutional proposals generally?

They will be available to the House when they are gazetted.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will ensure that, where there is evidence of a shortage of soil magnesium, supplies of magnesian limestone made to the farmers concerned will qualify for the full subsidy on delivery, despite the fact that there may be nearer sources of non-magnesian limestone available, provided only that the supplies are obtained from the nearest source of magnesian limestone.

Whilst there is no provision for subsidising the cost of adding magnesium as such to the soil, magnesian lime can qualify for subsidy as a liming material under the conditions of the Agricultural Lime Scheme. Claims for subsidy on its use can be admitted in circumstances where cheaper supplies of other types of lime are obtainable, provided the applicant shows that it is being used on expert advice, and is being secured at the cheapest delivered cost from the sources of it which are available.

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that the expert advice will not be confined to members of the National Agricultural Advisory Service?

The expert advice is that of the National Agricultural Advisory Service on its own, or in support of an independent opinion.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food it he will state the present-day Newlyn equivalent of the height required by the Hull Corporation Act, 1925, for wharves on the River Hull, at the mouth of the river and at Stoneferry, respectively; and what was the height of the last equinoctial high water spring tide and the freeboard, respectively, at both these places.

The height required by the Hull Corporation Act 1925 for wharves on the River Hull is 16·00 feet above Ordnance datum Newlyn at the River Hull mouth and 14·97 feet at Stoneferry. High tide was not recorded on the 20th March at the mouth of the Hull, but a level of 1595 feet above Ordnance datum Newlyn was recorded I mile upstream from the mouth of the Hull at Albert Dock entrance on the Humber. This would, of course, be slightly higher than the level reached at the mouth of the Hull. The level recorded at Stoneferry was 14·95 feet above Ordnance datum Newlyn. The freeboard was ·05 feet and ·02 feet at Hull mouth and Stoneferry respectively.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say why he has previously been so cagey about giving information about this serious flooding in Hull in March? Are not the thousands of my constituents affected entitled to know why they get flooded out, sometimes more than once a year? Is it not the case that the Corporation's statutory level for wharves has never provided any freeboard for safety at flood tides?

I can hardly be charged with being cagey, considering that I have answered about 14 Questions, written as many letters and replied to an Adjournment debate on the details of the recent flooding at Hull. If the hon. and gallant Member wants any more detailed information, I will do my best to obtain it for him.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the time required by the Hull and East Yorkshire River Board to consider flood alleviation schemes for the River Hull; whether any of the wharves shown to be deficient at the flooding three months ago are to be raised before the next equinoctial high tide on 23rd September, 1961; and how much money is available in the River Board's 1961 budget for flood alleviation work within the Hull city boundary.

I am informed by the river board that they have made no specific provision in this year's estimates for any improvement schemes on the River Hull within the city boundary, and that consideration by them of flood alleviation proposals for the River Hull will depend on the extent of the problem remaining when action has been taken by the Hull Corporation to require wharf owners to build up their wharves. I am advised that the Hull Corporation are to consider serving notices on 21 wharf owners.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is serious concern among my flooded-out constituents in Hull about the failure of the River Board to go ahead with the 1954 alleviation schemes which it has in hand, and that so far this year no flood prevention work has been carried out within the limits of the Hull City boundary?

Hull Corporation and the River Board are both autonomous responsible local authorities and they are just as concerned as the hon. Member about conditions in Hull. They have been pressing forward with their survey urgently for the last few weeks, and I understand that they are to meet in July. I would have thought that we could probably do little between now and the conclusion which they reach then, when the river board will be able to consider what further action it will have to take.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the total number of maximum security cells in United Kingdom prisons; how many of these are occupied by one, two, three, or more inmates, respectively; and how many of such cells are still provided at night with a bucket as the sole form of sanitation.

On 30th May out of 13,796 cells for men in England and Wales, 2,477 held three prisoners. In Scotland out of 2,255 such cells, 87 had three prisoners. There are 934 cells for women in England and Wales and 120 in Scotland. Women are not located more than one to a cell and men are never located in pairs. Prison cells in Great Britain do not contain fixed sanitary installations.

I hope that I shall not misrepresent what the right hon. Gentleman said, but I could not hear him. On the figures which I think I heard, would he agree that this represents a very serious state of overcrowding in our prisons which is not conducive to turning out prisoners as useful citizens at the end of their prison sentences? Does he agree that providing three prisoners in a cell with a bucket at night as the sole form of sanitation is also not the best way to rehabilitate them—by keeping them as caged animals?, Will he try to bring the conditions in our prisons up to date and into line with those in some of the other civilised countries of the world?

During the last three years there has been an unprecedented building programme for prisons, of no less than forty-one different types of units, of which seven or eight are now completed, and the rest are nearing completion or are under construction. Moreover, there is a long-term programme for improving the existing sanitary arrangements in prisons amounting to no less than £500,000, and this is well under way in an attempt to deal with some of these conditions which are undoubtedly very serious.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that, deplorable as it is that three prisoners are having to sleep in a cell, the most deplorable aspect of this is not sleeping three in a cell at night but the grave overcrowding during the day which makes it impossible to give the prisoners a full day's work which they ought to be doing?

We have fortunately considerably improved the provision of work in prisons thanks to the Advisory Council which I have set up with the aid of hon. Members serving on it. This will help to improve the day conditions, but it cannot be denied that at present prisons are overcrowded.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many quarter sessions courts are in operation in Birmingham; and to what extent delay in dealing with outstanding cases is due to the shortage of courts.

I understand that the Birmingham City Quarter Sessions sits in two or three courts as required. It does not appear, therefore, that there is a shortage of courts of quarter sessions in Birmingham.