asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what decisions have been made on African education in Swaziland, following the termination of education facilities in the Union of South Africa: and if these decisions include the inauguration of inter-racial schools at all levels with equal opportunities for African and European children.

The education facilities provided for Swazi students by South African authorities have been access to South African universities, and the right to take public examinations set by the Joint Matriculation Board of the University of South Africa. The former facility was withdrawn in 1959 except in regard to the Natal Medical School.

Does not the termination of the arrangements with the Union of South Africa give an opportunity for a new start in education in Swaziland, not only in higher education but in primary education, too? Is the Minister aware that there is segregation in the schools of Swaziland and that only £5 a year per head is spent on the African child compared with £90 on the European child? Will he do something to establish free inter-racial compulsory education for all the children in Swaziland?

The opportunity for taking a fresh look and making a fresh start in these matters is being taken. The question of examinations is being considered at the moment by the Swaziland Educational Board. The hon. Member asked about progressive integration in the schools. The Board is considering, among other matters, the replacement of the African, European and Euro-Asian Advisory Boards by one inter-racial board; extra-mural activities on a non-racial basis; integration in the secondary schools; and the raising of standards in African primary schools to make possible integrated schooling on a wider basis.

The Minister mentioned Pius XII College at Roma. Is this institution fully recognised as an institution of higher learning of university standard?

I prefer that question to be put on the Order Paper. It is important, and I should prefer it to be put down separately.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will state the purpose for which the United Kingdom High Commissioner to the Federation of Central Africa attended the conference of 18th May between the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, the Minister of Native Affairs, and the Council of Chiefs.

The United Kingdom High Commissioner attended the meeting at the personal invitation of the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, Sir Edgar Whitehead.

Is the Minister aware that the Commissioner's presence at this meeting raises rather serious questions? Is the Minister aware that this was a meeting at which the Southern Rhodesian Government informed the Chiefs of the still secret constitutional proposals and put forward the proposition that there should be no political meetings in the reserves? Is there not a danger that Her Majesty's High Commissioner's presence at that kind of meeting is bound to link the High Commissioner, in the eyes of citizens of Southern Rhodesia, with the political regime in that country? Is it not very important that the High Commissioner should watch these invitations very carefully and maintain his position as an independent representative of this country out there?

I cannot accept for one moment the interpretation which the hon. Member put upon the meeting. The purpose of the meeting was to enable Sir Edgar Whitehead to consult the Chiefs on certain matters which were of prime importance to the African population and which had been left over for more detailed consideration from the Constitutional Conference in February. I am not responsible for what happened at the meeting. It is for the Southern Rhodesian Government, whose meeting it was, to make any public report on what happened there. I am sure that the High Commissioner acted very properly in accepting the personal invitation.

Is the Minister aware that the interpretation which I have given of the meeting is the interpretation put out by the Federal Government? Is he aware that what matters is not what the Government feel about the consequences of the meeting but the impact which it makes upon the minds of the Africans of Southern Rhodesia?

The hon. Member misunderstands. The purpose of the meeting was for Sir Edgar Whitehead to consult the Chiefs. The National Democratic Party had, as other African political leaders had, an opportunity quite separately to express their views. The meeting was properly conducted, and I am very glad that our High Commissioner was able to be present.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations why he has made no provision for the African population of Southern Rhodesia, who now enjoy the protection of the United Kingdom, to be consulted about the new Constitution and for their prior approval to be obtained for the withdrawal of the provisions which protect them from discriminatory acts of the Southern Rhodesian legislature, in view of the fact that provision is proposed in the new Constitution for the African population to have power to reject subsequent changes in the Constitution.

The African population were consulted through the attendance at the Constitutional Conference of Africans representing all shades of political opinion.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the first part of that Answer is quite incorrect? [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Is he further aware that 2 million people in Southern Rhodesia now enjoy the protection of the United Kingdom? Why is that protection being withdrawn without their prior approval being obtained?

The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that the African representation at the Constitutional Conference in February was not limited to members of one party, and there were present distinguished Africans from the delegations of other parties as well as a representative of the Chiefs, and none of the African delegates at the conference at the time dissented from the contents of the Conference Report.

But is the Under-Secretary of State aware that those representatives have repudiated the agreement made because the Southern Rhodesian Government and the United Kingdom have gone back on the commitment then made on land apportionment?

This House has fully debated the matter and approved the constitutional provisions.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what requests have been received from the Australian Federal Government for financial assistance towards the resettlement of Australians displaced from their lands by the Woomera Rocket Range.

None, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that the Australian Board of Missions which looks after the welfare of these first Australians, the aborigines, is very disturbed about the results of their being displaced by the Woomera range? Will he, through the Australian Government, look into what happened to make sure that the facts which the Australian Board of Missions put out are correct? If it seems that some assistance ought to be given to these people as a result of what has happened, will he give an assurance that the United Kingdom will face up to its share of that assistance?

I am sure that the Australian authorities will ake note of this, but I know that the hon. Member is aware that the welfare of the Australian aborigines or of any other dwellers in those areas is entirely a matter for the Australian authorities. I understand that compensation has been paid from time to time to Australians for the alienation of small areas where construction has taken place, or for damage, but in all cases the sums have been small. In the sense that under present arrangements Her Majesty's Government pay a share of the total cost of the Woomera range, they contribute indirectly to any compensation payments made.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he is yet in a position to announce agreement on a loan to the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

No, Sir.

How does my hon. Friend explain that Answer in view of the fact that his right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary announced ten days ago that the matter of the loan had been more or less finalised? Does he realise that this dithering on the part of the Government is holding up African housing schemes and educational plans in Southern Rhodesia? Will he press for early action in this matter?

My right hon. Friend is wrong in suggesting that there has been any dithering or inconsistency in the replies given to him. I answered the Question on the Order Paper. I am not yet in a position to announce the agreement of the loan to the Federation, but I hope that a decision will be made within the next two or three weeks.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations why Her Majesty's Government have approved the joint defence arrangements between the forces of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and the Union of South Africa; whether prior approval has been obtained from Her Majesty's Government for the Federal Government to conduct joint defence talks with the Portuguese authorities in Angola and Mozambique; and if he will make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's policy with regard to the external defence relations of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

I am informed that there have been no arrangements or talks of this kind, apart from a training exercise between the Royal Rhodesian Air Force and the South African Air Force which was arranged a year ago. The Federal Government exercise responsibilities in defence and external affairs under the Federal Constitution, but naturally consult Her Majesty's Government fully on all matters of common concern.

May I ask the Under-Secretary of State whether prior approval will be obtained before the Rhodesian authorities enter into any discussions with the Portuguese?

This is a purely hypothetical question. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] At any time when a matter similar to that comes up, of course there will be the fullest consultations, but there is no basis for this apart from a report which I saw in a newspaper which referred to rumours, musings, and wishful thinking. I do not think that the hon. Member should attach too much importance to a report of that kind.

Nevertheless, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the constitutional position as contained in the Monckton Report is that external agreements in regard to defence made or sought to be made by the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland must have the confirmation of Her Majesty's Government in this country?

I would rather put it in this way, that under the Constitution the Federation may exercise such responsibilities in external affairs as may from time to time be entrusted to it by the United Kingdom Government. As was announced in 1957, the Government agreed to entrust responsibility for external affairs to the Federal Government to the fullest extent consistent with the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government in this country under international law so long as the Federation is not a separate international entity.

But would the hon. Gentleman make it clear that Her Majesty's Government in this country do not regard it as consistent with this agreement that the Federation should enter any kind of defence agreement with Portugal?

But in fact the Federation has not entered into such agreements.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations, in view of the policy of Her Majesty's Government to curtail overseas aid, if he has consulted with Commonwealth countries in need of, or anticipating further, technical and financial aid for the development of their countries in respect of this decision and the reason for it.

It is not the policy of Her Majesty's Government to curtail the overseas aid. Assistance from British Government funds to developing countries amounted to £150 million in 1960, and it is expected to increase in 1961. What we can afford to do, however, must be determined within the limits imposed by this country's economic position, and the total amount of our aid commitments is kept under careful review.

Was the recent statement which appeared in the Press that the Government were contemplating restricting aid of this kind quite incorrect?

The Minister cannot be asked to deal with Press statements for which he is not responsible.

May I change my supplementary question a little and ask about a statement made by a Government Minister?

The hon. Gentleman has somewhat shifted his ground. I prefer to stick to the words which I have given to the House to the effect that it is not the policy of Her Majesty's Government to curtail overseas aid and that the sum for 1960 is expected to be increased in 1961.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether it is proposed to consult with the Government of the Republic of Ireland before negotiations are entered into with the Common Market countries.

We have been keeping in close touch with the Government of the Republic of Ireland on the possibility of our entry into negotiations with the European Economic Community, and the Prime Minister and the Ministers of Finance and External Affairs of the Republic of Ireland are coming to London for consultations on 18th July.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (1) whether he will arrange for Commonwealth Technical Training Week to be followed up by similar public and civic activities in subsequent years:

The possibility of following up Commonwealth Technical Training Week is a matter which the Central Advisory Committee is considering now. The possibility of interchange of training facilities is another matter. There are, of course, regular consultations with the Governments of other Commonwealth countries about technical training under the Colombo Plan and the Special Commonwealth African Assistance Plan and interchanges of training facilities do in fact take place.

First, in view of the success of Commonwealth Technical Training Week and to ensure that it was not a flash-in-the-pan, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that some thought should be given to sustaining public activities on this topic in the future? Secondly, will he keep in touch with the new Department of Technical Co-operation on my latter point?

I will convey the hon. Gentleman's suggestion to the Central Advisory Committee. I take note of what he has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will state approximately the cost of procuring adequate water supplies in Bechuanaland; what surveys for this purpose have been made: whether the provision of water is to be confined to the area of the new administrative capital; and what is the number of the staff that will be transferred from Mafeking as soon as water, other essential services and accommodation have been made available.

It is not possible to estimate the cost of procuring adequate water supplies in the Bechuanaland Protectorate until it is known what underground resources exist and the reliability of surface water supplies has been proved. The High Commissioner allocated £725,000 in the five-year development period 1955–60 to the development of underground and surface water supplies throughout the Territory. A sum of £450,000 is being spent in the current development period on the continuation of this work. This includes the cost of surveys, not only for potential sites for a new administrative capital but for the Territory as a whole, since water is a pre-requisite of general economic development.

While I appreciate fully the very great difficulties in this matter, may I ask whether that Answer means that every endeavour will be made to provide an adequate water supply other than in the contemplated capital?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what conditions have been imposed on the United Nations mission in the Bechuanaland Protectorate.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what restrictions as regards location have now been placed on the United Nations mission to South-West Africa whilst in Bechuanaland.

In telling the Chairman of the South-West Africa Committee that we would do what we could to meet his requests for certain transport and accommodation facilities in Bechuanaland, we imposed no restrictions or conditions upon the Committee's activities within the Protectorate. It was, however, made clear to the Chairman that in granting these requests it was our understanding that the Committee did not intend to enter South-West Africa from Bechuanaland without the permission of the South African Government.

But what is this Committee doing in Bechuanaland? When the administering Power in South-West Africa is unwilling to receive the mission what is the purpose of its presence in Bechuanaland, especially as there is danger of its embroiling us with the South African authorities whose good will, whether we like it or not, is necessary to the economy of the High Commission Territories?

The Committee said it wished to visit the territory in implementation of the General Assembly resolution, and later in Bechuanaland proposed to visit Herero residents originally from South-West Africa. On that basis we saw no objection to the visit for this specific purpose.

While welcoming the opportunities given in Bechuanaland, may I ask whether this mission is not instructed to go to South-West Africa by the United Nations, and are not the Government of the Union of South Africa defying that decision of the United Nations? Why should we not give all possible facilities for the mission to visit South-West Africa even if it is from the territory of our Protectorate?

We are not responsible for the Government of South Africa, but the Committee made no submission to us that it intended to eater South-West Africa at the time of its request for facilities in the Bechuanaland Protectorate. We have since asked the chairman to confirm our understanding that the Committee will not attempt to enter South-West Africa from the Protectorate without permission.

Why not?

Because we are responsible for the Protectorate. We have granted such facilities as we have been asked for within the Protectorate. I think that it is reasonable to expect the Committee to agree to our request not to go beyond the border.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it is highly desirable that this Committee should visit Bechuanaland, because there it will find large numbers of refugees who have been driven out of South-West Africa and so will be able to collect a great deal of valuable information? If this Committee should make a further request to the Government, may we express the hope that the Government would receive it with courtesy and common sense equal to that which they have shown on this occasion?

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how much British financial aid has been afforded or promised to India and Pakistan, respectively, during 1960 and 1961.

In 1960, Her Majesty's Government gave loans to India amounting to £15 million. To help finance the current Indian five-year development plan, which began on 1st April this year, Her Majesty's Government have this year signed Loan Agreements totalling £40 million, and they have recently undertaken to make additional loans totalling £50 million during the period ending 31st March, 1963.

While no one would wish for a moment to cut down on the aid that this country can afford to give to India or any other part of the Commonwealth, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he would comment on the fact that there seems to be a discrepancy between the amounts made available to these two countries out of proportion to their respective populations? Will he bear this fact in mind in future when drafting other forms of aid that we are able to make, especially since Pakistan is a very close and loyal ally as well as a member of the Commonwealth?

We do not regard the scale of assistance that we are able to give to Pakistan as out of proportion to the aid that we have given to India.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will now state the results of his consultations with the Government of Cyprus regarding the extradition of Cypriot citizens in connection with crimes committed in this country.

The consultations are still continuing.

In order to solve this difficult problem, is it the Government's intention to negotiate an extradition treaty with Cyprus?

No, Sir. The difficulty which has arisen has been brought about by the operation of a Clause which would have the same effect on an extradition treaty. What appears to be called for here is amendment of the Constitution of Cyprus. That is a matter for Cyprus, and we are consulting them now.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what recent consultations he has had with the Government of South Africa, in view of the latter's proposed military assistance to the Government of Portugal in Mozambique and Angola, to ensure that British forces are not used in such operations under existing Anglo-South African defence commitments.

None, Sir. No such Anglo-South African defence commitments exist.

While I am fully aware of the assistance already given to Portugal in the Angola campaign by the dispatch of arms to Portugal by Her Majesty's Government, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that I am glad to hear that no British troops are to be used in that campaign?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will now make a further statement on his campaign to encourage women teachers to return to teaching.

The latest reports from authorities show than nearly 2,200 married women have been appointed between the launching of the campaign in February and 31st May. Further appointments are likely to be made between now and next September.

Whilst appreciating the efforts being made and the success they are attaining, may I ask whether the Parliamentary Secretary recognises that his Department estimated that there are 50,000 married women who might be attracted to teaching? In view of this, will he redouble the efforts, and also consider what further inducements may be necessary to get married women to return to teaching?

Yes, we are getting the women coming in, and we shall do all we can to make the proposition we have offered attractive.

Can my hon. Friend say what proportion coming back are coming back in a part-time capacity?

The fallowing teachers have been obtained so far: 1,250 on a full-time basis; 925 on a part-time basis.

Has the hon. Gentleman given serious consideration to the desirability of giving better pension schemes to women who are coming back into teaching? That would be the best inducement.

If they looked after the children it would be better.

That is a complicated issue, as the hon. Lady knows, and one we have given a great deal of thought to.

asked the Minister of Education what was the total grant made by the Victoria and Albert Museum to provincial museums for the purchase of exhibits; and what percentage these grants formed of the total expenditure of provincial museums for such grant-aided purchases.

The grants made in the financial year 1960–61 totalled £21,747, which represented about 34 per cent. of the total cost of the grant-aided purchases.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider two things? Would he take very serious notice of the Standing Committee's Report on art galleries and museums about the parlous state of provincial museums and do something about it? Will he secondly consider, when the National Art Collection Fund makes a grant to a provincial museum, ignoring it when the Victorian and Albert grant is being considered, because the Victoria and Albert grant is a maximum of 40 per cent. and it looks as though the Victoria and Albert grant is being reduced because of some other grants?

As the hon. Member knows, the basis on which these grants are given takes account of whether other public funds or non-local funds are being contributed to any extent to the purchases. We shall take full account of what is said in the report just issued.

asked the Minister of Education if he will consult with the Headmasters' Conference with a view to its limiting, during the next few years, its recruitment of mathematics and physics staff in favour of local education authorities' secondary schools.

Last year my right hon. Friend consulted the Governing Bodies Associations about ways in which the independent schools might help during the national shortage of teachers. So far as mathematics and physics graduates are concerned there is a shortage in all kinds of grammar schools including independent schools, and the solution lies in an increased supply of graduates from the universities.

But surely in many of these schools the conditions are very much more favourable than in some of the schools adversely affected, and surely it would be helpful for them to make a gesture towards the maintained schools?

I have no evidence that independent schools make appointments which are in any way to be regarded as unnecessary.

asked the Minister of Education how many new school building projects for new housing estates in Essex have been disallowed by him in the past five years, and in such future programmes as have so far been approved.

Of 115 projects for new housing estates proposed for major building programmes from 1956–57 to 1962–63, 102 have been included. Of the 13 projects not included, 7 turned out not to be urgently needed, and my right hon. Friend is considering the other 6 for future programmes.

How does the hon. Gentleman reconcile that Answer with his statement in this House on 1st June that provision of new school accommodation on new housing estates and new towns is

"an overriding and absolute priority to which we must devote the first of our resources year by year."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 1st June, 1961. Vol, 641, c. 582.]

The answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question answers the first part. There is no urgent need for additional school buildings in that area which would give the priority the hon. Gentleman has referred to.

asked the Minister of Education if his attention has been called to the statement by the chairman of the sites and buildings committee of the Essex Education Committee, that it is increasingly difficult to get acceptable tenders for school-building projects because so much less important work is being done by Essex builders, and that the lowest of seven tenders received for the building of one new school was £15,000 higher than the expenditure approved for that project by his Department; and what steps he is taking to remedy this situation.

Yes, Sir. But if the project is the Aveley Mildmay Secondary School, a tender has now been accepted which is within the revised limit of cost approved to take account of increased labour costs.

But is the hon. Gentlemen aware that the committee chairman on this occasion also said that things are constantly having to be left out of school buildings although they will only have to be put in later on, and that the whole situation about costs and tenders in Essex—and I expect elsewhere—has been reduced to chaos by a combination of Government meanness and contractors' avarice?

I do not propose to follow the hon. Member along those lines of argument. We have no evidence whatever from any source in the country that the kind of conditions which he describes prevail. School building is going on at present at a rate never before achieved.

asked the Minister of Education if he will request local education authorities to confine their purchases of meat for school meals to suppliers who use the Fat Stock Marketing Corporation's schedules to indicate quality and source.

My right hon. Friend does not think it would be appropriate for him to limit suppliers as suggested. Local education authorities are responsible for running the school meals service and it is for them to purchase the meat needed so as to maintain nutritional standards at reasonable cost.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many meat traders, admittedly a minority of those in the country, mislabel their meat and the local weights and measures inspectors are finding evidence of this all the time? Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the meat supplied to schools is the meat that the local education authorities have paid for? If he cannot give that assurance, would he press on his right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture the need to have a proper schedule of gradings of meat so that action can be taken against those traders who mislabel the meat in the way I have suggested?

I will have inquiries made into whether there are good grounds for thinking that buyers of meat for local education authorities are being deceived in the way the hon. Member suggests, but as far as I have been able to discover up to now there is no evidence to that effect.

asked the Minister of Education what proposals he has for increasing the number of teachers in technical colleges.

Although some important vacancies remain unfilled, the total number of full-time teachers in technical colleges has increased from 11,400 in 1955 to 21,680 this year. This is over 3,000 more than the target recommended by the Special Committee set up in 1956. The National Advisory Council on the Training and Supply of Teachers has prepared a Report, which is to be published shortly, containing its estimate of needs for technical college teachers up to 1970. The Council is now reviewing problems of supply in the light of this Report.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the figures in the Report show that the original figures were quite inadequate? Can he say when the Report will be published?

The Report will be published when we have had time to consider what it contains and what steps may be called for. I hope that the hon. Member will wait until then to see what the figures reveal. They are very interesting.

asked the Minister of Education when he hopes to announce proposals for higher education in business and commercial subjects.

My right hon. Friend hopes to make an announcement later this month.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend's un- lamented predecessor said on 9th February, 1959, that he hoped shortly to be able to announce the decision of Her Majesty's Government? Is it not about time that the Government got a move on in the matter?

The hon. Lady must be fortified by the undertaking I have just given.

asked the Minister of Education how many schools are included in the building programme of the Oldham Corporation now under consideration; and on how many previous occasions authority has been refused to build each of these proposed schools.

The authority has proposed two primary schools and three secondary schools for the 1963–65 major building programmes. Of the primary schools, one was previously submitted on four occasions and the other on six. Of the secondary schools one was submitted six times previously and another twice. The third is a new proposal.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this does not sound quite like the answer given a few moments ago about the immense amount of school building which is going on? Is he aware, however, that I am grateful for the first half of the letter from his right hon. Friend to me yesterday and for the hopeful assurance about the secondary school which that letter contains?

asked the Minister of Education what is the present estimated cost to the Exchequer of the proposed denominational primary school at Roman Road, Lineside, Oldham; and what was the estimated comparable cost when the proposal was first submitted for approval.

This school was first proposed for the 1956–57 major building programme. The gross capital cost at that time would have been £47,432, compared with £54,863 today.

I am much obliged for the information, but is the hon. Gentleman aware that it discloses a rather serious state of affairs? If I rightly understand the letter from his right hon. Friend to me on this project, he is now saying that, having refused to see a deputation in May at my request, and having received the same deputation in my absence in June, without communicating with me, he now refuses to receive me, the bishop or the priest to make representations on the matter on the ground that he has received that deputation? Is that the case, or am I being asked to wait for further consideration?

I am grateful to the hon. Member for his courteous reference to my right hon. Friend's letter in his previous supplementary question. I do not think my right hon. Friend's suggestion that it would not be advantageous to meet the hon. Member at this time is based on a refusal to see him because he has already seen a deputation. My right hon. Friend's letter suggests that it would be as well if the consultations now being carried out were completed. The hon. Member might rest on that for the time being.

I am much obliged.

asked the Minister of Education what discussions he has had with the Royal College of Art with a view to the establishment of a national school of film and television; what progress has been made; and if he will make a statement.

No formal proposal has yet been made to my right hon. Friend, but representatives of the Royal College of Art and of the film and television industries have discussed a project of this kind several times with officers of the Ministry. I understand that the college and the industries are now considering several points arising from the most recent discussion, which was held last week.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a serious need for a faculty of this kind and that we are almost the only major film-producing country without one? Is he further aware that this proposal will not be brought to fruition without the blessing of his right hon. Friend and his practical assistance? Will he press ahead with the matter?

I accept pretty fully all that the hon. Member says.

asked the Minister of Education what was the increase during the years 1959 and 1960, respectively, in the numbers of full-time teachers employed in maintained and assisted schools.

The increase in the number of teachers in full-time service in maintained primary and secondary schools, excluding special schools, was 6,000 in 1959–60 and about 5,000 in 1960–61.

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that his right hon. Friend told me last week that merely to reduce the size of over-sized classes by 1970, which is not a very ambitious target, we need between 73,000 and 80,000 new teachers? Does he realise that we cannot possibly attain this target unless his right hon. Friend does something about the crisis in the supply of teachers?

The hon. Member will probably be aware of our programme for extending teacher training colleges, the growth in the size of the universities, and all the other efforts that we are making to recruit additional teachers.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that that will do no more than meet the deficiency that will arise over the year of intermission for the next five to six years?

The hon. Gentleman must not be so pessimistic. We have much higher hopes than that.

asked the Minister of Education how many day training colleges are now in operation; how many candidates for admission were accepted; how many were refused; and where and when any further day training colleges are to be established.

Five colleges, to which 574 students were admitted in the present academic year out of about 1,400 candidates interviewed. Three more day colleges in London, Wolverhampton and Newcastle-on-Tyne will open this September and will admit about 225 students. My right hon. Friend regards this expansion of day training as a most important development.

While agreeing entirely with that last comment, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman is not aware that it is now almost exactly a year ago that we were told of the three additional colleges which are still not opened'? Does not the hon. Gentleman feel that there might have been more speedy action in this matter, particularly to meet the need for short-term mature students' courses for the 1962 year of intermission?

That is one of the objectives of this present expansion programme. It takes time to open and start new colleges, as I think the hon. Lady knows.

Do I understand that the hon. Gentleman said that 500 out of 1,400 interviewed were accepted? Has he any information about what proportion of the remainder of the candidates were ultimately accepted for teaching? Were they lost to the profession?

This information relates to the present academic year and I have no knowledge, therefore, of candidates who were not accepted.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many officers are now serving on the general list, King's African Rifles; whether he is aware that these officers have been given no statutory right to pensions or gratuities; and when action will be taken to put an end to this unsatisfactory state of affairs.

There are now twenty-three officers serving in the general list K.A.R. A pensions and gratuity scheme for them is under consideration by the East African Governments and will be broadly similar to that in force for the Government servants of comparable status in East Africa. It is hoped that it will be possible to enact the necessary legislation in 1961.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the delay is causing serious hardships to those concerned? Is he aware that one of the officers has been invalided home with his family and has been a year on full pay but without any lodging allowance or ration allowance, and that he has been told by the Government of Kenya that any question of pension or gratuity can be decided only on an ex gratia basis? Will my hon. Friend see that this matter is accelerated?

Yes, Sir, I will, but I must point out to my hon. Friend that the ex gratia basis will be reviewed—in the officer's favour. The payment will be increased if the final decision is for an upwards move. If the final decision is less advantageous, the difference will not be deducted.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what consideration he has given to the Report of the Keir Committee appointed to inquire into the future of the Copperbelt Technical Foundation; what action he proposes to take in the matter; and if he will make a statement.

The three sponsors of the Committee—the Copperbelt Technical Foundation, the Federal Government and the Government of Northern Rhodesia—have appointed a working party which is at present considering the Report and which will later advise on all its implications. So far as my responsibilities are involved I will of course give sympathetic consideration to whatever measures may finally be recommended by the sponsors of the Committee.

Is it not the case that the Committee has recommended the abolition of the colour bar in all technical schools? If this is so, will the right hon. Gentleman do his best to ensure that that important recommendation is implemented?

Northern Rhodesia has made tremendous strides, as the right hon. Gentleman knows very well, in the last few years in this matter. I am sure that the best way of proceeding is by the working party, which I have indicated, and as soon as we have its report we shall be able to try to implement it.