Skip to main content

Rivers (Prevention Of Pollution) Bill

Volume 645: debated on Monday 24 July 1961

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Lords Amendments considered.

Clause 1—(River Board's Consent For Pre-1951 Discharges)

Lords Amendment: In page 3, line 15, at end insert:

"and where consent is granted before that date subject to conditions, those conditions may, subject to subsection (6) of this section, take effect before that date."

9.33 p.m.

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It was always the intention that river boards should be able to grant consent for discharging into rivers before the appointed day. This was not exactly clear in Clause 1, and this Lords Amendment is for the avoidance of doubt.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 2—(Protection While Applications Are Being Dealt With)

Lords Amendment: In page 3, line 40, at end insert:

"or
(e) paragraph 32 of the Third Schedule to the Gas Act, 1948, or section sixty-eight of the Public Health Act, 1875 (which relate to pollution from gasworks),".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

Paragraph 32 of the Third Schedule to the Gas Act, 1948, and Section 68 of the Public Health Act, 1875, both impose an absolute prohibition on the discharge of any effluent from any gas undertaking. It seems quite unrealistic that this prohibition should continue in view of the fact that river boards will have new powers to control all effluents passing into rivers and streams. Recognising that this prohibition was discriminatory, it seemed desirable to give gas undertakings protection while applications were being dealt with. This Lords Amendment is to put this situation in order.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 4, line 2, leave out "use" and insert "make proper use of".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It was recognised by the river boards and by the industrial interests that the words in 'the Bill as drafted,
"failed to use, or to repair or maintain, any purification plant"
were not exactly explicit enough. Therefore, it was decided that the words in this Lords Amendment "make proper use of" were very much more appropriate. This alternative wording is, I know, acceptable to the river board interests and to the industrial and local authority interests, and, I believe, will be satisfactory to this House.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 4—(Protection For Persons Complying With Conditions)

Lords Amendment: In page 5, line 20, at end insert:

"or
(e) paragraph 32 of the Third Schedule to the Gas Act, 1948, or section sixty-eight of the Public Health Act, 1875,"

I beg to move, that this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

I previously explained the effects of paragraph 32 of the Third Schedule of the Gas Act, 1948, and Section 68 of the Public Health Act, 1875. This Amendment is very similar to the Amendment which I moved to Clause 2. Its effect is to give protection to persons who are complying with the conditions laid down by the River Board. It is reasonable to give this protection in the case of Clause 4 in a similar manner to the protection given in the case of Clause 2.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 5—(Review And Variation Of Conditions Governing Discharges And New Outlets)

Lords Amendment: In page 6, line 18, at end insert:

"(4) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply to a consent or notice which, in consequence of the temporary nature of the discharge to which it relates or for any other reason, will be spent within two years from the date on which the consent takes effect or the notice is given, and no notice shall be given under subsection (1) of this section varying the conditions of any such consent or notice except with the consent in writing of the person making the discharge."

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It was considered inappropriate that the terms of the First Schedule should apply to a consent to discharge which was essentially of a temporary nature. For example, if an industrial plant were at the time of its annual holidays cleaning out its effluent treatment plant or if a local authority were flushing out its sewage disposal tanks, being an occasional happening, these events would not be appropriate to be dealt with under the terms of the First Schedule, which is designed to deal with discharges of a continuing nature. In the circumstances I think that the Amendment will meet the position and I trust that it will meet with the acceptance of the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 7—(Other Provisions Relating To Discharges And New Outlets)

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 22, to leave out from beginning to "stream" in line 25 and to insert:

"If the occupier of land or premises from which effluent passes or may pass to a".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

Sir Gordon, would it be convenient if the Amendments in lines 26 and 29 were discussed with this Amendment?

Yes, that would be for the convenience of the House.

These Amendments, which are all linked, look formidable, but in fact they are designed entirely to help both local authorities and industrial interests. Clause 7 (4) was inserted in the Bill in order to be of assistance to the interests I have just mentioned. Unfortunately, those interests regarded the subsection with a certain amount of suspicion and, as it was designed only to assist them, it was thought desirable to turn the subsection round so that these conditions can be applied in these instances only if the occupier of the land or premises gives his consent. I under- stand that this approach is appreciated by both the local authority and industrial interests. In these circumstances I trust that the Amendment will prove acceptable to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments agreed to.

Clause 9—{Estuaries And Tidal Waters)

Lords Amendment: In page 9, line 18, at end insert:

",but as if, in relation to any tidal waters or parts of the sea to which the provisions of the said sections two to five, or any of them, are first applied at a time after the commencement of this Act, for references to the date appointed under section one of this Act there were substituted references to a date twelve months after that time or such earlier or later date as may be specified in the order applying the said provisions."

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is a purely technical Amendment to correct a drafting omission.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 9, line 24, at end insert:

"and the said Act of 1960 shall apply to any such tidal waters or parts of the sea as are not controlled waters but are waters to which, at the commencement of this Act, any of the provisions of sections two to five of the principal Act apply by virtue of an order made, or having effect as if made, under section six of that Act as it applies to controlled waters."

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is a technical Amendment to correct a minor drafting defect.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 10℄(Samples Of Effluent)

Lords Amendment: In page 10, line 35, after "1948" insert:

"or under any other enactment,"

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is a purely drafting Amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 11—(Restriction On Proceedings)

Lords Amendment: In page 11, line 22, after "or" insert "the foregoing provisions of".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is a drafting Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 12—(Restriction Of Disclosure Of Information)

Lords Amendment: In page 11, line 35, after "information" insert "(i)".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

By your leave Mr. Speaker, perhaps it would be convenient for the House also to consider with this Amendment the remaining Amendments.

Clause 12 is the Clause which is designed to restrict disclosure of information. It was added during the Committee stage in this House, and subsequently it was recognised that there were doubts about certain aspects of it. It was primarily designed to ensure that industrial secrets should not be made known outside the trades concerned.

It was recognised that, if this Clause went through in its original state, it might be impossible for river boards to disclose certain information which they had regarding toxic elements in the waters of rivers and streams. The intention of the Clause is the protection of trade secrets, and the Amendments will make it possible for those secrets to be preserved. Anybody disclosing them will be subject to prosecution.

Under these Amendments, it will be possible for the river boards concerned to let the public know if there are certain toxic elements in rivers and streams concerning which it would be desirable for the public to have information. I believe that the Clause in its new form will preserve the balance as between the protection of the industrial interests and the protection of the public, and in those circumstances I hope the Amendments will be accepted.

Question put and agreed to.

Remaining Lords Amendments agreed to.

Police Federation Bill

Lords Amendments considered and agreed to.