asked the Secretary of State for Scotland which local authorities or other organisations he has consulted and intends to consult, before deciding the respective toll charges for the Forth Road Bridge.

When the schedule of proposed toll charges is submitted to me by the Forth Road Bridge Joint Board, it will be published. All interested parties will have an opportunity to submit representations. If there are any objections which are not withdrawn, there is provision for the holding of a public inquiry.

Is the Secretary of State aware that many local authorities and many people in the east of Scotland are completely opposed to the principle of toll charges, and that many people in the east of Scotland, particularly in Fife, are very alarmed and disturbed at suggestions that the toll charges may equate the present ferry charges? Will he give an undertaking that these charges, if he must impose them, will be of a purely nominal character?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the principle of tolls was accepted in all the original arrangements and he will not expect me to go back on the discussion at that time. If he will read carefully what I said in my original Answer, he will see that the position is that there may be a public inquiry, and, therefore, I cannot commit myself in advance in these circumstances.

Is the Secretary of State aware that many authorities were prepared at that time to discuss the question of toll charges because of the pressure that had been put upon them to get the Forth Road Bridge started? Now that the bridge is nearing completion—I notice that the Secretary of State is giving an indication of horror, but the fact is that he sometimes brings pressure to bear on local authorities when he is consulting them. That is the reason why many accepted the indications of his office at that time—

We have to stick to questions, and questions which do not constitute an argument.

May I finish my supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, by asking whether the Secretary of State would not reconsider his position this afternoon and give an undertaking that the charges will be clearly of a nominal character and not in line with the present ferry charges?

I cannot add to what I have already said.

Can the Minister add a wee bit? Can he indicate that the charges will not be permanent but that there will be a time in the not-too-distant future when they will be eliminated?

I am afraid that I cannot add even that wee bit.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that where theatres are demolished there is no effective planning control within existing legislation to prevent change of use on the cleared site; and if he will introduce legislation giving further statutory powers to local authorities to control such developments.

Planning permission must be obtained for any material change in the use of land, whether or not there are buildings standing on it. Although land which has been in use as the site of a theatre can be used for certain kindred purposes without further permission for the change of use, the plans of any new building involved would have to be approved.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the local authorities do not understand the position to be as he has outlined it? Is he aware of the diminishing number of theatres in Scotland, particularly in Glasgow, which is causing concern to theatre lovers, to amateur dramatic societies and operatic societies? If the right hon. Gentleman is not prepared himself to introduce such legislation, will he make facilities available to those of use who wish to pursue the matter?

The hon. Member has leapt a large number of stiles in the course of a short supplementary question and I should like to study carefully what he has said. But I think that I have given the answer to the Question on the Order Paper.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the proposed reconstruction of a very important site in Union Street, Aberdeen, which is now the site of the music hall? Will he see that the planning authority in Aberdeen has ample power to consider not only the utilities but also the aesthetics of this very important site?

Until a short time ago I was not aware of the project to which the hon. and learned Gentleman has referred. But I think that the planning authority probably knows full well what powers it has.

What does the right hon. Gentleman mean by "certain kindred purposes"? Is he aware that some theatres are now used as warehouses in England—and, I suppose, in Scotland also? Is he aware that when a London theatre is demolished the L.C.C. usually insists that a new theatre shall be incorporated in any block of offices or whatever is to be built on the site? Could not the same example be followed in Scotland?

The hon. Member has asked what are "certain kindred purposes". These are defined in an Order made in 1950 which specified certain uses to be regarded as kindred to a theatre, including cinemas, music-halls, dance-halls, skating rinks, swimming baths, Turkish or other vapour or foam baths, gymnasia or buildings for indoor games.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to enable uncertificated teachers in Scotland to become fully-qualified teachers.

Any uncertificated teacher may apply for a grant under the Special Recruitment Scheme to enable him to acquire the qualifications necessary for recognition as a certificated teacher. An uncertificated teacher who already has qualifications, training or experience which might justify his certification in Scotland may apply to the Scottish Council for the Training of Teachers, who will recommend whether he can be recognised forthwith or requires further training. In appropriate cases the normal course of training may be shortened.

Is the Secretary of State aware that these arrangements have proved quite inadequate? Will he put more energy and urgency into having consultations with universities and colleges of education about vacation courses and evening courses to enable all the untrained teachers who have the capacity to become trained teachers? Will he also try to rid Scottish schools of those teachers who are untrained and have no capacity to become trained teachers?

The hon. Member has gone very wide of the Question. I am not aware that the arrangements have proved unsatisfactory. There are 220 students, who have been uncertificated teachers, at present receiving training under the scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland which Scottish Minister and other members of the Scottish Education Department are to be members of the United Kingdom delegation to the Commonwealth Education Conference in Delhi in January, 1962.

Her Majesty's Senior Chief Inspector of Schools will be a member of the United Kingdom delegation, which will not include a Scottish Minister.

Is the Secretary of State aware that that is a very unsatisfactory Answer? Is he not going to fight for more adequate Scottish representation on a very important delegation to a very important conference? Is he aware that the Scottish tradition of education is world-famous and that the Scottish contribution to Commonwealth education is very great? Will he look at this matter again and consult the Minister of Education?

For a variety of reasons it was not practicable to include a Scottish Minister in the delegation. But I am satisfied that Scotland's contribution to the conference will still be a valuable one.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to control land prices in Scotland, in view of the adverse effects which such prices have on the cost of 'building houses.

No Sir. I consider that land prices in Scotland generally are reasonable and the best way of keeping them so is to ensure that enough land is zoned for building in the right places.

Is the Minister aware of the recently announced enormously increased prices, particularly in Edinburgh, and no doubt there will be others announced shortly in other cities? Does not he agree that this is bound to jeopardise future house-building at prices which people can pay, and can he say whether there is any connection between this development and the newly acquired interests in Scotland of Messrs Clore, Cotten and Macmillan?

The hon. Member must appreciate that one cannot argue from an isolated instance. There have been one or two oases reported recently, but the information I have given is correct.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say how many times land prices have to be multiplied before they become unreasonable?

That is an entirely hypothetical question.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman become seized of the idea that land prices are going very high? Is he aware that if he intends to achieve success with his housing measures in redeveloped town centres and other places where sites are in private hands, he will have to exercise more control, or the local authorities will be impeded in redeveloping those areas?

The hon. Member will be aware that once the area of comprehensive development has been approved, compensation for acquisition excludes any extra value created by the redevelopment proposals. I think that that is what he has in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to ensure that the escalation of property values now taking place in Glasgow will not prejudice the redevelopment plan which he has approved for the city.

I have had no representations that there have been undue rises in property values in Glasgow which might hinder redevelopment.

Will the Secretary of State acquaint himself more closely with what is going on in Glasgow? Does not he realise that at the weekend we were given quite a number of examples of extremely sharp rises in the value of property in the centre of Glasgow, and that the reason for the gambling is the redevelopment plan envisaged for the city? Is he telling us that in fact he has frozen, or will he consider freezing, property values at the point in time when he approved the redevelopment plan for Glasgow?

No, Sir, I will not say that in answer to the supplementary question put by the hon. Gentleman. I find it difficult to follow what he wants, but I think that I covered the point in my answers to Question No. 31. I am not convinced that, so far, values have risen unreasonably, but we shall watch the position and see how things go.

If the right hon. Gentleman is not convinced that values have risen very sharply indeed, is he aware that not far from where I live one-sixth of an acre of land was purchased by an oil distributing company for £14,000—that is, £84,000 per acre? Is not that a sharp rise in land prices?

I was not aware of the price about which the hon. Gentleman spoke.

Mr. Wingfield Digby.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Surely—

No.

May I have your guidance, Mr. Speaker, about putting this point? In his second reply the right hon. Gentleman said that he was not aware of any sharp increase in property values in Glasgow. I have given him one, which is one of many. Will he now act on the information which I have given to him?

The hon. Gentleman rose to a point of order. Will he be good enough to indicate what is his point of order?

I changed it to seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker, which is more valuable than any point of order.