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Ministry Of Health

Volume 653: debated on Monday 12 February 1962

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Tuberculosis

25.

asked the Minister of Health what was the number of persons suffering from tuberculosis under treatment at the end of 1961; and what percentage of these were immigrants.

I will send my hon. and gallant Friend the figure for persons registered with tuberculosis clinics at December, 1961, as soon as it is available. The returns do not distinguish between immigrants and others.

I understand that in recent years there has been an increase in tuberculosis. I appreciate that my hon. Friend cannot at present differentiate between immigrants and others, but will she look into this matter carefully in the future?

No, Sir. This is a health service and we have no reason to ask for the nationalities of the people concerned.

Welfare Clinics

26.

asked the Minister of Health how many welfare clinics are operating under his Department in England and Wales; how many persons are employed by these clinics; and what is the total cost to the National Health Service.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that far too many welfare clinics are operating at present? Does not she agree that in many cases these are abused, in that those who really need them do not get a look in? Surely this is one major economy the possibility of which can be looked into in the future?

I am absolutely certain from my experience of local authorities, that maternity and child welfare clinics provide an excellent service. Contrary to what my hon. and gallant Friend has stated, attendance at these clinics continues to increase.

Somerset House (Census Records)

31.

asked the Minister of Health by what criteria the Registrar-General in Somerset House grants and refuses permission for historians and genealogists to consult the census records subsequent to 1851.

Information from these records up to 1921 is supplied only with the consent of the parties concerned or their descendants.

Is my hon. Friend aware that my understanding is that up to and including 1851 these records are available to anybody and that many researchers understood that as soon as a hundred years had passed they would be open to them? The 1861 returns have not yet been revealed, which is an annoyance and an embarrassment, apparently, to many researchers.

There was no pledge of confidentiality, I understand, for censuses up to 1851, but for the succeeding decades such a pledge has been given and the records are available only for specific purposes.

Not necessarily. I think that perhaps at the end of a hundred years the matter might be considered, but it is a matter for the Public Record Office.

Will my hon. Friend answer a Question about it in a hundred years' time?

Smallpox

33.

asked the Minister of Health what was the cost of each pack of smallpox vaccine USP prepared by the National Drug Company of Philadelphia, and supplied to the National Health Service, containing ten tubes, ten capillaries of vaccine, ten scarifying needles and one rubber bulb; what was the total number imported from the United States of America during the last twelve months; and what was the total cost to the National Health Service.

100,000 packs. It is not the practice to disclose prices.

Is the Minister satisfied that this rather elaborate practice is the best way of getting this vaccine? Is he able to get supplies from British producers rather than from American?

These were a very useful reinforcement of our reserves. I can say that they were no dearer than our general supplies.

The Minister has indicated that it is not his practice to state prices. Does he not think that the House is entitled to some information about prices in respect of these huge orders of vaccines and other things necessary for the health of the people which have been ordered from abroad?

Yes, certainly, and I have answered Questions on the cost of supplies generally. But it is obviously undesirable to give the prices for particular consignments where competition between the suppliers is desirable.

36.

asked the Minister of Health when he proposes to institute a general campaign for vaccination against smallpox in Cardiff and South Wales.

This is not the intention. My policy is to encourage the routine vaccination of all infants and of adults whose work may bring them into contact with infected persons or material.

Is the Minister aware that I thoroughly disagree with him? Will he please reconsider this decision and step up the propaganda and publicity so that if there is another outbreak of smallpox we shall not experience once again long queues of worried, anxious people waiting to be vaccinated, when sometimes there are insufficient supplies of vaccine? Why not take time by the forelock in this matter?

The important thing is that, if possible, 100 per cent. of infants should be vaccinated as a routine, as part of the general immunity which children aught to be acquiring. I am glad to say that in Cardiff the acceptance rate for infant vaccination has been increasing in the last few years and is well above the level for England and Wales and for Wales. I hope that Cardiff will go on with this good work, because it is the right approach.

What is the Minister doing to ensure a higher rate of infant vaccination? Even if he is reluctant to go as far as my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) suggests, will he not at any rate see whether he can do something through the schools medical service to get children vaccinated who are amongst the 60 per cent. who were not vaccinated as infants?

Yes. There is a continuous campaign to press immunisation. I believe that each campaign for any kind of immunisation helps with the whole package. In the last few years the increase in immunisation against poliomyelitis has undoubtedly improved the figures for immunity against smallpox. This is something which has to go forward as a whole, and it is being pressed through and on local health authorities.

39.

asked the Minister of Health what machinery exists in his Department to receive, distribute and act upon information distributed by the World Health Authority regarding smallpox epidemics.

Is the Minister aware that the various medical officers, including the medical officers in Birmingham, are receiving the World Epidemiological Report weekly, which shows that as early as November and December there were about 300 cases a week in Karachi, with 30 deaths a week, but that they received no guidance at all from the Ministry? As late as only a fortnight ago, when an aeroplane was diverted unexpectedly to Elmdon, the medical officer of health had no guidance at all as to how he should deal with the matter, and in Birmingham he took the law into his own hands, particularly in respect of a Chinese gentleman who had travelled across the world. Is not this a ridiculous state of affairs?

There is no question of his taking the law into his own hands. The responsibility and the powers are his. This is the duty of the port health authorities, who receive regularly the information which is necessary for them to discharge it. It was only in the third week of December that the figures disseminated by the World Health Organisation showed an abnormal situation in Karachi.

46.

asked the Minister of Health which European countries are now demanding international certificates of vaccination against smallpox from British visitors to their countries; and whether he will insist on reciprocal arrangements being enforced against their nationals.

According to my information, all except Austria, Denmark, the Republic of Ireland, Norway and Switzerland. The answer to the second part of the question is "No, Sir".

Is it not a fact that there are at present serious outbreaks of smallpox in the Congo and in Liberia, and that Europeans in contact with these countries could carry smallpox when coming to Great Britain? Therefore, will not the right hon. Gentleman protect the British people against the danger of smallpox from Europeans and other travellers, instead of pretending that the only danger comes from Commonwealth immigrants?

As our experience has shown, the requirement of international certificates is in itself not a protection against the importation of smallpox. But there is in Europe hardly any smallpox at all, and, although these countries are fully within their rights under the international agreement in requiring these certificates, I do not believe that our protection would be increased by doing so.

If the international certificate of vaccination is no protection, why are France, West Germany and other countries demanding the production of such certificates from British travellers? Clearly the right hon. Gentleman is contradicting himself. Have not the British people the same right to protection from European carriers as Europeans have from British carriers?

Yes, we have the right to do this, but there is no question of reprisals in this matter. As there have been cases of smallpox in this country, these countries were entitled under the international agreement to make this requirement.

Rickets

34.

asked the Minister of Health why the figures of the number of cases of rickets in the years 1938, 1939, 1958, and 1959 are not available.

Is the hon. Lady aware of the very large decrease in the incidence of rickets in the years mentioned in the Question and the fact that one of the reasons for it, apart from the rising standards of living, has been the orange juice and vitamin resources of local welfare clinics? In view of the fact that the use of these has dropped by 70 per cent. throughout the country, will the Minister reconsider the question of the charges on vitamin foods, cod liver oil and orange juice?

I do not think that that arises out of the Question. I agree that gross deforming rickets have been disappearing, and I am very happy to note it, but when we consider the causes of rickets we find that there are a number, of which dietary deficiency is only one. There has been a survey of cases of rickets caused by dietary deficiency, and I understand that figures are being obtained for 1960 and the first half of 1961, so that some information should be available in the future.

Chemists (Accounts)

44.

asked the Minister of Health what delay there has been in the repayment by his Department of chemists' accounts in recent months; and if he will make a statement.

So far as I know, twelve executive councils in the last three months have been unable to pay the full amount due by the normal date. I understand that the delay nowhere exceeded four weeks. In all these cases substantial payments on account were authorised by my Department.

My right hon. Friend will recognise that this has come just at a time when the cut in remuneration is taking effect, which is unfortunate from the point of view of public relations? Could my right hon. Friend make it clear that any individual case where a pharmacist is embarrassed can be met by the executive council, in an individual case and not in relation to the whole of the community, making a payment on account?

My Department is always ready to authorise payments on account when executive councils apply for them. My hon. Friend will, I know, recognise that the problem here—and it arises particularly in these months—is the abnormal sickness and staff losses in the pricing offices.

Whitley Councils (Pay Claims)

47.

asked the Minister of Health on how many occasions during the last six months he has sought deferment of the consideration of pay claims by Whitley Councils, or otherwise intervened in the normal processes of negotiation.

I have on two occasions asked management sides to seek deferment pending further guidance to my representatives. I do not accept that this is intervention in the normal processes.

How does the Minister reconcile these actions with the assurance that he gave in the communication that he sent last August to Whitley Councils in which he said that normal negotiations should proceed subject only to a reservation about the date of implementation? Does he think this sort of action is going to encourage confidence in the Whitley system?

It is a normal feature of these negotiations that the management side and my representatives on the management side should wish to take my guidance, and there may be circumstances in which that necessitates my asking for a deferment.

It is a different matter if the management side asks for the right hon. Gentleman's guidance, rather than the right hon. Gentleman himself initiating this kind of delay.

It depends on the management side. I can only request them to make a deferment and they have to consider whether it is reasonable to do so.