asked the Postmaster-General when it is expected that local broadcasting will be introduced in Great Britain.

No decision will be taken one way or the other until after the Pilkington Committee has reported.

Is the Postmaster-General aware of the tremendous success of the experiments in local broadcasting carried out in Durham a few weeks ago, and does he appreciate that Durham would welcome such a facility? If this kind of local broadcasting is to take place, will the right hon. Gentleman give it top priority?

I have heard of those reports, but it is really premature to say anything definite on them yet.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will make a statement regarding the reports he has received from the British Broadcasting Corporation regarding the Coropration's experiments in local broadcasting.

I have not received any reports from the B.B.C. about its experiments in local broadcasting.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I was rather afraid of this? Does he, by any chance, read the newspapers? If he does, has he noticed that the B.B.C. has carried out experiments? If he has kept with me in this intellectual process so far, may I ask why he has not troubled to inform himself about this? Can it be that he is in the hands of some commercial vested interest?

I read the newspapers, and I also read the Order Paper. Although I can do all sorts of things, I cannot make a statement on reports that I have never had.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that during the past eighteen months three boys have been found dead from hanging after watching television programmes about crime, including hanging scenes; and if he will exercise his powers under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement of the British Broadcasting Corporation and under Section 9 (2) of the Television Act, 1954, to ensure that programmes which include hanging scenes shall not be broadcase in future.

I am aware of the three unfortunate cases which occurred in 1960 and 1961. Since that time the broadcasting authorities have been even more vigilant in matters of this kind, and I do not consider I should be justified in taking the action the hon. Gentleman suggests.

Is not the Postmaster-General aware that a fourth case occurred very recently—since I put down this Question—of a boy found dead from hanging after watching hanging scenes on television? Does he not think that he should use his powers of direction to prevent similiar human tragedies from occurring?

I am not aware of the fourth case to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I shall certainly seek to trace it. I should be very happy to discuss the matter with the hon. Gentleman.

Is not the Postmaster-General aware that the I.T.A. is obliged to set up three television advisory committees, the first of which deals with the content of advertisements. According to the OFFICIAL REPORT, what the right hon. Gentleman said last Tuesday shows that he is not aware of that one. The second is a committee to advise on religious content, and the third advises on the welfare of young children. Would not that latter committee be the appropriate one for the right hon. Gentleman to ask to keep a continuing interest in this particular aspect of broadcasting?

The hon. Gentleman is wrong; I made it quite clear last week that there is no advisory committee on programme content. Having said that, I deplore, of course, as much as does any other hon. Member, these tragedies when they occur if it can be shown that there has been a demonstrable link with a television programme. But I am really satisfied that the two bodies—the B.B.C. and the I.T.A.—have this kind of thing very much in mind.

asked the Postmaster-General how many experimental stereophonic programmes have been broadcast by the British Broadcasting Corporation; and over what period.

The B.B.C. tells me that it has broadcast seventy-nine experimental stereophonic programmes since 1958.

In view of the lengthy experiments which have taken place, I presume that it is the intention of the B.B.C. to give a service of stereophonic sound broadcasting. Why the delay? Why let the Americans pip us in this matter as they did with colour television?

This is a highly complicated technical matter. The system which is being used in America has one very great disadvantage, in that it seriously reduces the range of the transmitters using it. The B.B.C.'s experimental transmissions require the use of two separate sound channels. The view of my experts is that such a system cannot be regarded as a practicable one for the future. At the same time, we are getting useful experience from these experiments.

Is not there a danger of the best becoming the enemy of the good, or even of the very good, in these experiments?

As I said, this is a highly complicated business, but it has certain very great technical disadvantages as at present experimented with—and the American system reduces the range of the transmitters, which is also an important consideration.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) what is the population of the areas of County Antrim which are beyond the range of the British Broadcasting Corporation and Independent Television Authority transmissions;

(2) what steps have been taken in the last two years to eliminate the small areas which cannot receive British Broadcasting Corporation television programmes.

I understand that about 9,500 people are beyond range of B.B.C. television, and about 11,000 beyond range of I.T.A. television in County Antrim. Since 1959 the B.B.C. has planned and put in hand twenty-seven satellite television stations to improve and extend its coverage, including one in Northern Ireland. A further stage of its satellite programme will be announced shortly.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Does not my right hon. Friend agree that this area should be high on the list of priorities, if for no other reason than that it was probably the first place in the United Kingdom from which wireless transmissions of any sort were made? It seems wrong that it should now be left out.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern, but, as he knows, the B.B.C.'s third stage satellite is still under consideration.

Would it not be worth while to preserve at all costs the one or two last refuges in the United Kingdom where it is not possible to receive a television programme?

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the frequent broadcasting on television of scenes depicting brutality and violence during the hours when children are viewing; and if he will use his powers under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreements and Section 9 (2) of the Television Act, 1954, to require the Corporation and the Authority to refrain from broadcasting scenes of this nature during the earlier viewing hours.

Both B.B.C. and I.T.A. assure me that their general policy is one of vigilance in programme matter, and that they pay particular attention to programmes broadcast at times when children might be expected to be watching.

The B.B.C.'s code of practice in regard to violence draws attention to the dangers of depicting brutality in children's programmes. The I.T.A. says that it always tries to exercise particular care about children's programmes. I do not think I should be justified in using my powers as the hon. Member suggests.

Does not the Minister agree that, even as recently as a week last Sunday, the broadcasting of a most brutal and bestial murder in the "Oliver Twist" series at five o'clock—the peak hour—can have had nothing but a damaging influence, and was it not an exaggeration of Dickens? Will he use his powers to try to prevent this sort of thing?

I take this matter very seriously, and I have been in consultation with the British Broadcasting Corporation about it. It is only fair that I should repeat what it told me, namely, that a warning about this scene was given in a trailer during that Sunday afternoon and also at the start of the programme itself. The Corporation points out that violence is part of the story itself, and that if some children—and, indeed, some adults—found the episode brutal, the Corporation is sorry. I saw this scene, and I thought that it was brutal and quite inexcusable.

I am rather glad to hear that the right hon. Gentleman has taken exception to some of the things which have been televised, especially the last one to which he referred, but despite all that alleged vigilance on the part of the Corporation and the I.T.A., is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a great deal of anxiety and concern in the public mind with regard to the effect of these brutal plays and actions on children? It does not matter how much we try to pretend that children are not watching, or should not be watching, these things. The plain fact is that they are doing so and it is having a deleterious effect on them, as every school teacher and every public-minded person knows. The Postmaster-General cannot evade his personal responsibility in regard to the standard of these things in the B.B.C. and in the I.T.A.

I think that, generally speaking, both broadcasting authorities behave well in matters of this sort. There are, of course, exceptional cases, and this happens to be one. Quite frankly, the difficulty is that if anyone in my position starts to ban certain types of programme on either the B.B.C. or the I.T.A., starting with brutality, or hangings, or something of that sort, the next step will be a demand for the banning of other programmes on a great variety of grounds, and the content of television programmes would disappear in no time.

Who really advises on the time at which childen go to bed? One is sick and tired of hearing that programmes are all right because they come on late and children do not see them. May I ask my right hon. Friend whether the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. are in consultation with the Home Office on this matter, and is there not a relationship between juvenile crime and allowing children to see programmes before their minds are thoroughly stabilised?

In regard to the first part of that question, I think that it is generally assumed by the broadcasting authorities that most children go to bed at nine o'clock.

They assume incorrectly.

I cannot say whether that is true or not. I can speak only for my own children. But until nine o'clock the two broadcasting authorities certainly try to keep out disagreeable features such as this from their programmes—not only children's programmes, but all programmes. With regard to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, this is one of the matters which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has been discussing with the Chairmen of the I.T.A. and the B.B.C

But is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that both these authorities operate under a Charter given by this House? Therefore, will the right hon. Gentleman, as a Member of this House, and as the person responsible to this House for these two authorities, take the feeling of this House? I feel sure that if he does he will find that there is great apprehension not only in regard to children, but adults, too, because of some of these most obnoxious programmes that are put on by both authorities.

I have no doubt that on both sides of the House there is a great deal of feeling on matters of this sort, and I hope that when the Pilkington Committee reports, as it will do shortly after Easter, it will have something to say, and in turn that the Government will take what it has to say with all seriousness.

In that context is my right hon. Friend aware of the programe "Z Cars" which puts the police in an extremely bad light? It brutalises the police and has a bad effect on children.

I am afraid that I am not in a position to answer that because I have never seen "Z Cars"

The right hon. Gentleman said that both authorities took into account the needs of children up to the hour of nine o'clock. They set up a joint committee which recommended that programmes up to nine o'clock should not be unsuitable for children, and both authorities firmly rejected the recommendations of this Committee. How does the right hon. Gentleman account for that?

I realise that that recommendation was rejected, but I assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that the two broadcasting authorities proceed on the assumption that most children may be watching television until about nine o'clock.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that, quite apart from the effect on children, what is involved here is a deliberate debasement of the public taste, and that this is a question of public policy for which he is responsible? Can the right hon. Gentleman conceive of any circumstance whatever in which it is necessary to depict on the screen every incident and every detail of a brutal assault ending in murder, and perhaps depicting an actual hanging? What is it for, except to pander to the most morbid sensationalism and to derive profit from it in that way?

With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I do not think that that is a very fair question. I have already made my personal view clear on this point.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that if this matter is taken too far along the line of the questions this afternoon we shall end in a state where no Shakespearean play can be shown at all? Would not he agree that one of the most successful series ever put over by the B.B.C. is "An Age of Kings" which had more murders in it last Sunday than I have ever seen before?

I am sure that the answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is "Yes." One of the difficulties is that a very high proportion of our English classical literature includes incidents of great brutality.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the unsatisfactory nature of the recorded delivery postal service in relation to the work of the Sheriff at Airdrie, details of which have been forwarded to him by the hon. Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie; and what action he is taking in the matter.

The information which the hon. Member was good enough to send my right hon. Friend has been taken into account in considering whether to amend Statutes so as to permit the use of recorded delivery as an alternative to the registered post for sending documents. The view of the Departments responsible for the Statutes is that the new service would be an acceptable alternative, and effect is given to this in the Recorded Delivery Service Bill, which was considered in Committee on 28th February and is due to be reported on 6th April.

May I take it from that reply that some sort of surety will be provided to guarantee delivery of such important documents as summonses, citation, etc.?

We have no reason to believe that the recorded delivery postal service will be any less secure for the service of documents than is the registered post.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the limitations under which staff work, and the general public are served, in the General Post Office in Morpeth in the County of Northumberland; what action is being taken to deal with the matter; and whether he will make a statement.

Some improvements, including the introduction of "all-purpose" working, were made last year. My right hon. Friend cannot do more until the new automatic telephone exchange is ready next spring. The telephone exchange will then be removed from the present building, and this will enable the head post office to be replaced by a new building, on site.

I appreciate what was done last year, but is the hon. Lady aware that there is an urgent need for an immediate improvement in the conditions in which the members of the staff are working? What are the possibilities of getting a date-line fixed for a new post office at Morpeth, which is urgently needed?

We recognise the urgency, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that we hope to deal with it very soon—some time this year.

asked the Postmaster-General, in view of the fact that the matter has been under consideration by his Department for over three years, if he has yet reached a decision on the introduction of a Giro system in the Post Office.

The Government are not at present convinced of the long-term need for a Post Office Giro system. We shall, however, continue to examine the scope for such a scheme in the light of public needs.

First, what difficulties are the Government experiencing in this matter? This system seems to be working satisfactorily in other countries. What are the right hon. Gentleman's disabilities? Secondly, is he aware that many of us are getting a little anxious lest the delay in reaching a decision is connected with the activities of banks and trustee savings banks, which are very keen that a system of this sort should be introduced?

I am, of course, well aware of the experience of the Giro system on the Continent. Not all the systems are successful by any means. At least two or three of them involve the taxpayers and governments concerned in quite substantial losses. I should like to make it clear that my reply to the hon. Gentleman does not rule out the possibility of a Giro system in this country. However, many developments are taking place over a very wide field, and these have to be considered very carefully.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reply to the second point which I raised, which is very important? Is the delay due to the influence of the banking interests on the Postmaster-General?

No, Sir. The delay is due to the enormous complications in the consideration of the whole problem.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is not himself but the Chancellor of the Exchequer who is obstructing progress in this matter?

Progress is not being obstructed by any member of Her Majesty's Government. It is simply that the question is so wide and complicated that it takes a long time to resolve.

asked the Postmaster-General what policy governs his choice of the designs of stamps for ordinary use in the United Kingdom.

The basic policy has always been to maintain the Monarch's head as a dominant feature of all our postage stamps. Subject to this, in the choice of individual designs, we are assisted by advice of people of note in the artistic and cultural world.

Would it not be better policy to recognise the art, culture, science and versatility of Britain by depicting on our stamps likenesses of some of our great scientists and poets, like Robert Burns, Bernard Shaw and others? This is done in other countries with profit as well as glory accruing to those countries?

No. Sir.

Has my hon. Friend noted that the fact that other countries have many more pictorial issues than we do is a matter of economic advantage to them, since the stamp business is very big internationally? Would it not be wise for the Post Office to reconsider its earlier decision not to issue more pictorial stamps?

It is not altogether a tremendous economic advantage to have too many issues. This devalues the value of the issue. We feel that we have just about the right balance.

Does not the hon. Lady think that a pictorial stamp showing Robert Burns as an Army volunteer, complete with musket, would stimulate recruiting for the Army in Scotland and bring satisfaction to my hon. Friend the Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes)?

asked the Posmaster-General how many sub-post offices have been closed in Shropshire in the last five years; how many new sub-post offices have been opened; and if he will give an estimate of the profit or loss which has resulted to the Post Office therefrom.

Six, including one at a former R.A.F. station, have been closed and four new ones opened. We expect to open another new one in Bridgnorth early next month. Based on the average financial effect of opening and closing offices, we estimate that these changes will reduce our expenditure by about £100 a year.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Will she bear in mind that the terms of remuneration are not always such as to attract people to take on sub-post offices? Will she consider favourably people who are prepared to take on sub-post offices? If people are not prepared to do that, will she consider other possibilities, such as travelling post offices?

The difficulty about travelling post offices is that not only are they very expensive but the people who would use them would be considerably inconvenienced in waiting for the post offices to arrive and in having to use them in all weathers.

asked the Postmaster-General, in view of the fact that the population of Durham and the surrounding districts is more than 120,000, if he will consider locating his proposed Savings Certificate Division in that area.

Yes, Sir: my right hon. Friend is considering this possibility.

I thank the hon. Lady for that reply. Will she bear in mind that last week her hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lonsdale (Mr. de Ferranti) said that we had a population of only 20,000 in Durham and were not as worthy of this service as his constituency? In fact, we have more than 200,000 people to cater for, not 20,000.

I am grateful for the information which the hon. Gentleman has given us. We are considering it very carefully.

asked the Postmaster-General what plans he has for issuing special stamps to mark the launching of the National Productivity Year.

Yes, Sir: my right hon. Friend proposes to issue special stamps in denominations of 2½d., 3d., and 1s. 3d. to mark the occasion. They will be on sale in November.

I welcome this decision, but can we have some more information about the design of these stamps, and the number that will be issued?

I am afraid that at this point I cannot give any information about the design, but we hope that we shall have something that will commend itself to all hon. Members, and to the public.

Is the hon. Lady aware that if she wants an increase in national productivity in Scotland she must provide some inspiration, and that the greatest inspiration she can provide for Scotland will be to issue a stamp of Robert Burns?

I am sure that that point will be borne in mind.

Will the hon. Lady bear in mind that it is high time that some Welsh emblem was shown on a postage stamp? Will she also bear in mind that the Welsh people will be very hurt if, once again, Scotland is recognised and not Wales? We expect both to be recognised.

I can assure hon. Members that all these considerations will be borne in mind.

asked the Postmaster-General what progress has been made in the last year in the methods of loading and unloading postal parcels and mail carried on main line passenger train services.

The loading and unloading of mails has been speeded up in a number of instances. As regards new methods of loading and unloading, a study group has reported during the year on the general question of handling of mails, and its recommendations are under investigation. A copy of the study group's report is available in the Library of the House.

Will the Minister bear in mind Chat the railways are spending millions of pounds to modernise and speed-up rail traffic, while mail is still being loaded by precisely the same method as was used to load stage coaches? In view of the delay that this causes to passengers, surely the Post Office should get a move on in this matter?

It was for this reason that we had a special investigation into the handling of mails, and why we are giving special attention to it at the present time.

What is the recommendation of the study group on this item?

I cannot answer that question without notice.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to simplify the complicated automatic dialling system which has recently been installed in West Sussex.

I think my hon. Friend is referring to the recent introduction of six-digit codes for dialling calls to some exchanges in West Sussex. I am afraid that this is unavoidable with the present equipment. As subscriber trunk dialling is introduced, however, the codes will gradually be replaced by codes consisting of three letters and three figures, and these will be easier to use.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that reply will give a good deal of satisfaction to people in West Sussex? This six-figure code really does not work, and it is almost a stone-cold certainty that after dialling three of the figures one gets a horrible noise in one's ear. Is my right hon. Friend aware that for four weeks running I have reported the matter to the Horsham exchange, but that the people there do not seem to be able to put it right?

I agree that the present system is by no means perfect, but I think that for the present most subscribers would rather have the facility of direct dialling than have to go through the operator.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephone subscribers there were in Morpeth at the latest convenient date; and how many applicants were still waiting.

I am glad to say that whereas a year ago there were forty-four applicants on the waiting list, there is now only one. There are now 1,111 subscribers compared with 981 a year ago.

asked the Postmaster-General how many applications for telephones are now outstanding; and what the corresponding figure was last year.

The present figure is 48,000. This time last year it was 50,000.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at this rate it will take a very long time before people on the waiting list are dealt with? Since about 1 million people are already sharing lines, cannot the. Postmaster-General do something to expedite the provision of telephones, especially now that he is making more money out of the subscriber trunk dialling system?

I do not think we are doing too badly. Last year we installed a record number of telephones—about 460,000. The number on the waiting list at present represents less than 1 per cent. of the 5 million people who have telephones.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, if I am fortunate enough to catch Mr. Speaker's eye tomorrow, I hope to try to prove that he should have been able to do a bit better than he has done with regard to the waiting list?

We are doing twice as well as the hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards).

In twice the time.

asked the Postmaster-General what further tenders have been invited for telephone apparatus and exchange equipment since his announcement that orders to the value of £450,000 for telephone apparatus had been placed with firms outside the bulk supply agreement; and with what results.

Since the Answer I gave to the hon. Member on 21st November, 1961, tenders have been issued to a value of £456,500 for exchange equipment, and £700,000 for telephone apparatus. Of those on which adjudication has been completed, tenders to a value of £134,500 for exchange equipment and £83,000 for telephone apparatus have been declined on grounds of price. Contracts to a value of £8,500 have been placed for telephone apparatus. The remainder of the tenders to a value of nearly £1 million are under consideration.

This is a favourable trend. May I take it that the Postmaster-General is making an earnest attempt to broaden the field of supply and that, in accordance with the Third Report of the Public Accounts Committee, he may eventually terminate the ring system?

The Post Office is now, I think for the first time, taking serious advantage of the 10 per cent. reservation clauses. I hope that by so doing we shall infuse an element of competition into our arrangements which will be to the economic advantage of the Post Office and of the taxpayers.

asked the Postmaster-General how many maximum charges of £10 for installing new telephones and how many lower charges have been made in the years 1958, 1959, 1960, and 1961.

My right hon. Friend regrets that this information is not available.

Can my hon. Friend tell me how many charges under £5 are imposed for installing telephones? Or are money matters of no account to the Post Office?

One and three-quarter million lines have been connected since 1st January, 1958. The difficulty is that it would take an enormous amount of money and labour to analyse these figures in the way that my hon. Friend would like. We have to have an estimation of the work which is done because we feel that in that way we can ensure the most economical working of all our manpower.

What is the average charge?

I am afraid that I cannot answer that question.

asked the Postmaster-General how many new telephone kiosks will be provided during 1962 in England, Scotland and Wales, respectively.

The current two-year programme for rural kiosks allows for 270 to be provided in England, 33 in Scotland and 40 in Wales. No similar programme is compiled in advance for kiosks in urban areas, but during 1962 I expect about 900 to be erected in England. 100 in Scotland and 50 in Wales.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list giving particulars of the new telephone kiosks to be erected in each of the Welsh counties during 1962.

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT the numbers of kiosks to be erected in Welsh counties under the current two-year programme drawn up in collaboration with the Rural District Councils' Association for kiosks in rural areas. In addition, I expect about ninety kiosks to be erected in urban districts in Wales and the Border counties in 1962.

Will the programme for these two years represent a marked change from that of the previous two years?

I cannot answer that question with precision without notice, but I think that it represents a slight improvement.

In view of the isolation of the people in rural Wales now that the railways are to be closed down and the bus services are closing down, does the Minister realise the added importance of telephone kiosks, in enabling the people to keep in touch with their doctors, and so on?

The Post Office is always very much alive to its responsibilities in rural and scattered areas.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he will make a statement on the future of the currency arrangements to encourage the sale of British books in Israel.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation whether he will make a statement on the present position with regard to the provisions available for the sale of publications to Israel.

The Israel Government liberalised imports of books in April last year. Our special books Agreement with them was therefore no longer needed, and was suspended at Israel's request. Increasing quantities of British books have since been imported into Israel under normal trade arrangements.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what arrangements he is making for the distribution of low-priced textbooks and the low-priced paperbacks under the official scheme in the countries of Africa.

The scheme has not yet been applied in Africa. We have concentrated the available resources in Asia where the need has been greatest.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread disappointment, and indeed surprise, that this scheme is not to apply to Africa where there is an increasing flood of cheap Communist literature? Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this again and try to persuade publishers in this country to take a longer view of what are their own real interests?

I have not closed my mind to this. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman saw the exhibition of books for tropical areas last week at London University. There was a wide range of books made on commercial lines available to Africa which go a long way to fill this gap.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what is the average pension paid through the Crown Agents to the widows of pensioners of Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service and former members of the Colonial Service who retired before any post-war salary increases were granted by the employing Governments.

The average pension granted before the first post-war salary increases paid through the Crown Agents to widows of Colonial Service officers who served under the Governments of dependent territories is £249. This figure represents basic pension only and does not take account of pensions increases awarded by the various Governments concerned. I regret that I am not in a position to supply an average figure in respect of widows' pensions paid by independent Commonwealth and foreign countries.

As the widow's pension stems from an unfunded compulsory payment by the late husband, does not my right hon. Friend think that this amount is fairly small, and does not he agree that within the average there are figures as low as £72 for the High Commission Territories, and as much as £400 in respect of service under more than one Government? Does not my right hon. Friend think it possible to balance out this payment in some way?

I accept much of what my hon. Friend has said. The figure I have given is the basic figure without the increase given in many cases. It still remains a fact that in some cases Governments have not given increases that the pensioners deserve.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what is the average pension paid through the Crown Agents to pensioners of Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service and former members of the Colonial Service who retired before any post-war salary increases were granted by the employing Governments.

The average basic pension paid through the Crown Agents to overseas service pensioners of dependent territories who retired before the first post-war salaries revision is £393. I regret that I am not in a position to give an average figure in respect of pensions paid by independent Commonwealth and foreign countries.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that within this figure the average for Brunei is as low as £73 whereas in North Borneo next door it is as much as £474? Is not this rather odd? Further, will he bear in mind, when any money is likely to be lent or given to countries such as Ghana or Ceylon, that they have made no effort at all to look after their ex-servants?

I agree that the average figure is most misleading, but it was my hon. Friend who chose to put the Question in this form. The latter part of his supplementary question raises wider implications, but I have noted his Motion on the Order Paper.

Is it not time that the Government looked afresh at the whole question of pensions paid to Overseas Civil Service pensioners in this country? Are not many of these pensions grossly inadequate now, and does not the right hon. Gentleman, as the Minister responsible for technical assistance, feel that he is embarrassed by the constant friction caused on these questions with the new Commonwealth countries?

I accept that there is a problem here, but, of course, there are advantages and disadvantages in the present system which has been an established part of pensions policy under many Governments for many years. It is the policy that overseas Governments who pay the salaries pay the pensions of those who retire.

How many times has my right hon. Friend been to the Chancellor of the Exchequer demanding that something be done for these people? How often must democracy make itself vocal on the matter before the Executive can act?

I can easily answer that. I have only just taken over responsibility for this matter, and the answer is, therefore, "None".

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation if he

The pensions of retired members of the overseas services are not increasable under the United Kingdom Pensions (Increase) Acts.

Will my right hon. Friend publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT all the figures in the table which he sent to me? Further, after he has had a chance of studying them, when will he go to the Treasury?

I can arrange for those figures to be published. On the latter part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I want to give further consideration to this whole problem.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what help Her Majesty's Government is giving to the Centre for Educational Television Overseas; and what progress is being made by the Centre.

Her Majesty's Government are contributing £100,000 over five years.

The Centre, which was established only last December, is not a Government organisation and has not yet published a report. I understand that it has been busy recruiting staff and installing equipment, making closed circuit experiments and reviewing existing film material. It is hoped that production of new programmes will begin next month.

This is an entirely admirable project which demands the fullest support of the Government. Can the Minister say what help is being given by way of the provision of television sets for schools overseas and whether any initiative has been made to produce a special service television set for this purpose?

I am glad to hear the hon. Gentleman's opening remarks about the Centre, in which the Government are a most enthusiastic partner. I am a little doubtful whether the provision of receivers comes within the scope of the Centre, but I have noted the hon. Gentleman's question.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what progress has now been made in producing television films for teaching English overseas.

The British Council's experimental work has gone far enough to show that the main need is now financial. The 1962–63 Estimates do not make the substantial provision which might be involved, but experimental work is continuing, and I propose to consult further with the interested bodies.

A great deal of time has been spent in producing far too few films of very inferior quality. Will the right hon. Gentleman make quite sure that there are not too many authorities in this work and knock together the heads of those concerned to get some progress?

It is true that some of the material produced has been of unsatisfactory quality. I have said that I propose to consult further with the interested bodies and I propose to bring them together to see whether we can make more progress in what I regard as an important field.

asked the Secretary for Technical Co-operation what arrangements exist for consultation between his Department and other Departments about the United Kingdom's policy towards United Nations agencies such as the Food and Agriculture Organisation and the World Health Organisation; and to what extent his department is responsible for policy decisions relating to these agencies.

My Department keeps in close touch with other Departments about the technical assistance activities and programmes of the United Nations and the Specialised Agencies. Policy decisions are arrived at through the normal method of inter-departmental consultation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when I raised the question of the world food programme recently it was dealt with at Question Time by the Minister of Agriculture, and when I raised it on the Adjournment it was put down first as a Treasury subject and then transferred to the Foreign Office? Does not all this transferring of subjects mean that the right hon. Gentle man's responsibility in these matters is not properly carried out and that the dead hand of the Treasury is much too powerful?

No, I do not think so. I read the hon. Gentleman's speech about this subject on the Adjournment Motion. There is very close consultation between the Departments concerned, and I have no reason to believe that the correct decisions are not reached.