asked the Minister of Aviation how many passengers on scheduled flights were diverted from Turn-house Airport, Edinburgh, in 1964 on account of cross-winds; and how this figure compares with that for 1954.

asked the Minister of Aviation when an adequate second runway will be provided at Turn-house Airport, Edinburgh.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether Turnhouse Airport will be provided with a new long runway on the alignment of the prevailing wind.

Between 5,000 and 6,000; no records are available for 1954 but as the aircraft then in use could land on either of the two runways, the number must thave been very small.

In view of the importance of this airfield to the whole economy of south-east Scotland, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman had discussions with his colleagues in the Scottish Office in relation to the Scottish National Plan which we are expecting next month? Can the right hon. Gentleman hold out any realistic hope to us that he will alter the policy of his predecessors and give this matter the necessary priority?

I have given great consideration to this matter. We have discussed it with Edinburgh Corporation and we have been in touch with the Scottish Office about it. I do not rule this out and I am sure that there will be a second runway in due course.

As this is the fastest growing airport in Britain, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that what is needed is a definite starting date and not just a decision in principle?

I accept that, but at present the cost of servicing the capital on this runway would amount to £30–£40 for every person whose diversion was saved. This is a very substantial cost.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most cross-wind landings cause additional strain on the pilot and, particularly, cause strain to the airframe? Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me what percentage of the landings at Turn-house are made in cross-winds?

Such a percentage would not be meaningful unless one knew how much cross-wind, and the speed of the wind, but I have no reason to think that there are technical difficulties about the landings carried out. One per cent. of total landings are diverted because of cross-winds.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will arrange for the exhibit of Alcock and Brown, together if possible with one of R34, to be put into a prominent position in the car park of the Oceanic Building at London Airport, so that travellers crossing the Atlantic may have their attention drawn to these historic nonstop flights achieved in 1919.

I am glad to announce that the Alcock and Brown statue will be re-sited prominently on a large expanse of pavement at the end of the South Block adjacent to the Oceanic Building. A model of the R34 is already prominently displayed inside the building.

While thanking the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply and for the hard work which he has put into this matter, may I ask whether he is aware that the great Smithsonian Institution in Washington makes no mention in its History of Aviation Department of the first flight across the Atlantic by Alcock and Brown and therefore no Americans are aware of any flight across the Atlantic prior to that of Lindbergh? Can the hon. Gentleman confirm that American travellers coming out of the Oceanic Building at London Airport will be able to see this statue of Alcock and Brown in future?

I am aware of this point and I congratulate the hon. Member on his initiative in trying to put this matter right. The statue will be seen and it will be floodlit.

asked the Minister of Aviation what consultations he is having in order to provide proper airport facilities for Dundee.

None, at present. This is a matter for the Dundee Corporation, which has been offered a measure of assistance towards the provision of certain equipment under the Technical Aid Scheme. I would also be prepared to consider financial assistance towards the provision of a hard runway on the airstrip at Dundee if there were firm prospects of a scheduled service to use it.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that an airstrip is no substitute for proper airport facilities and that an industrial development area such as Dundee and the surrounding district deserves an airport with proper facilities?

I appreciate the case which Dundee has put forward and I have discussed it with those concerned, but before an expensive airport is developed we must make sure that scheduled airlines are prepared to fly into the area.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will give a general direction, in the public interest, to British European Airways not to discontinue services from airports in the South-West.

No, Sir. Decisions on particular services are matters for the board of B.E.A.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind the needs of the South-West and reconsider the desirability of concentrating airports in the built-up areas where the maximum nuisance is caused to householders?

I think that that anticipates Question No. 8, and I shall reply to it on that.

asked the Minister of Aviation what assurance he has received from the United. States Government that the advanced avionics required for the British version of the F111 will now be developed and produced.

Equipment comparable in performance to the avionics fit of the TSR2 will now be available without waiting for the development of the Mark II version of the F111. If F111s are purchased, this, together with a British reconnaissance pod, will be fitted.

In view of the merits of the Spey/Mirage, might it not be wise to postpone the purchase of this aircraft and not commit ourselves at this stage, before publication of the defence review and discussion of these matters in the House?

The hon. Gentleman will have noted that I have not committed myself. There is another Question down about the Spey/Mirage.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will now make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's intentions with regard to the option to purchase the F111.

I have nothing to add to the statement made to the House by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence on 24th November.

Is the Minister aware that a very large majority of hon. Members is against taking up this option on the evidence which has so far been presented to us and that many of us think that the visit of Mr. Kuss is very sinister and is designed to pressure the Government into taking wrong decisions on this matter which will materially affect our balance of payments in future years? Further may I ask him——

Order. Even the Liberal Party must put its question concisely.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to ask the Americans for a postponement of this option until such time as the House has had an opportunity to study the Plowden Report?

That, of course, is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that we shall not be pressurised into taking wrong decisions by Mr. Kuss or anyone else.

is my right hon. Friend aware of the grave anxiety on this side of the House as well, as expressed in the form of a Motion about the Government's reported intention to buy the F111? Is he aware that the Spey/Mirage aircraft is likely to cost £1 million less than the F111 and can be delivered on time?

I take note of what my hon. Friend says, but I stress that no decision has been taken. My hon. Friend has another Question about the Spey/ Mirage, but I cannot accept either of his statements about it.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that a decision on the F111 will have a major effect on the future of the British aircraft industry and British-French co-operation? Will he therefore undertake not to make this decision until the Plowden Report has been considered, since this is one of the most important factors affecting the future of the industry?

Of course we will take this matter fully into account. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Plowden Report has already been delivered to the Government.

asked the Minister of Aviation what production orders he has placed for the maritime version of the Comet; and for how many.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he expects to place a firm order for the Maritime Comet, the P1127 and the Anglo-French Jaguar.

The order for the Maritime Comet should be placed shortly subject to the successful completion of contract negotiations for full development and production. It is not the practice to disclose the size of military orders.

Will the Minister press on with the orders? He will know that the British aircraft industry is in a parlous position and that this very day there has been an announcement that B.A.C. is to close its factory at Luton, causing about 1,850 employees to be thrown out of work. Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is most important that these aircraft orders should be placed at the earliest possible date?

It is important that firm orders should be placed when we have arrived at the right stage, but not before. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the numbers employed in the industry are still greatly in excess of those which were expected to be employed when the cancellation of the TSR2 was made.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that these production orders are vital to the aircraft industry and that the Government will have had getting on for the best part of a year now to come to a conclusion?

That does not mean that a great deal of work has not been done on the P1127. A great deal is being done.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he is aware of the feeling in the South-West that Hum Airport is vitally necessary for the development of the region; and what is Government policy with regard to the future of the airport.

I should welcome any initiative by airlines to make a fuller use of Hunt, the importance of which to a part of the South-West I fully recognise.

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for that Answer, but will he bear in mind that there is no airport of any kind in Dorset and that Hurn Airport is the only one reasonably close?

Yes, Sir. I have been to Hurn myself and I realise the importance of this airport to the South-West.

The Government have taken no initiative to improve any of the airport facilities in the South-West during their period of office. Will the hon. Gentleman take it that everyone is extremely disturbed and disappointed at this?

I shall certainly bear in mind the importance of this airport, but the hon. Gentleman will know that many of the airlines are transferring their flights to Southampton and this does, unfortunately, detract from the importance of Hurn.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he will publish the report of the Plowden Committee.

Before the Recess.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake that time will be found for a debate on this important Report before decisions are taken and that, pending such debate and general conclusions on the Report, the Government will not take any major decisions on aircraft orders even though option dates may have to be extended?

This matter will be fully debated. I want to lay the Report before the House and the country as quickly as possible, and this will be done. We would not wish to take any decisions which prejudged consideration and carrying out of the recommendations of the Report, but we have never, throughout the sittings of the Plowden Committee, held up necessary decisions which could be taken without prejudice.

asked the Minister of Aviation what studies are being undertaken of the noise levels that are likely to be produced by the Concord aircraft during its landing approach and after take-off; and if he will make a statement.

Comprehensive studies are being undertaken by the aircraft and aero-engine manufacturers and also at the National Gas Turbine Establishment. Present indications are that the Concord will be less noisy on take-off and landing beneath the flight path than existing jets, but the noise to the side of the aircraft at take-off is still a cause of concern.

From his knowledge so far, does the right hon. Gentleman foresee that the Concord will operate in and out of Heathrow?

I have no reason to suppose that it will not.

Is it right that, if the Concord were taking off from Heathrow, going to America, the supersonic bang would not occur anywhere near Heathrow but would come as far away, perhaps, as Fishguard on the Welsh coast?

In these answers I am dealing not with the separate problem of the supersonic bang but with the noise level comparable with the noise made by existing jet aircraft.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will take steps to compensate persons whose homes are made uninhabitable by development and extensions of major airports.

My right hon. Friend's powers to pay compensation in respect of houses affected by airport development are limited to cases where the site of the house is required for the development, or where the proximity and height of the house are such that they infringe on internationally agreed requirements for safeguarding airport operations.

Due to the move of the terminal building at Prestwick, some of my constituents are living in houses less than 150 yards from the main concourse of the airport. Is it not quite intolerable to have to live so near transatlantic jets warming up their engines, and will the hon. Gentleman make special arrangements in this particular case?

We are aware of this particular problem, as the hon. Gentleman has written to us about it, but, if we tried to deal with it, there would be far-reaching consequences for other forms of development as well.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how many householders in the vicinity of London Heathrow Airport have taken advantage of the Government's scheme for soundproofing their homes?

That is another question. I shall look out the information and write to the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will give a general direction, in the public interest, to the nationalised airlines to use British rather than foreign airports for the training of aircrews.

No, Sir; I regard this as a matter to be decided by the Air Corporations themselves.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that British European Airways is doing much of its pilot training at Shannon and, possibly, Malta? Would it not be advantageous if the money used for this purpose were spent in this country, to the benefit of our balance of payments, and is it not within the Minister's power to see that it is worth the Corporation's while to do this?

I think that there are grounds for persuading our airlines to use the facilities which can be provided here. I shall, with the British Airports Authority, investigate the question to see whether some special arrangements can be made. The hon. Gentleman will bear in mind, none the less, that there are weather and traffic congestion problems in this country which do not always arise elsewhere.

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that, quite apart from weather and geography, the duty-free aspect of Shannon as regards fuel and so on has a great bearing on the matter?

Yes, and we shall bear that in mind.

Do the landing charges imposed at United Kingdom airports have anything to do with the decision of the Corporation to use Shannon?

We do, in fact, allow the airlines special fees which are 25 per cent. of the normal cost when they use an airfield for training.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will take steps to fill the employment gap created for Short Brothers and Harland by the cancellation of the HS681.

The future workload of this company and its place in the aircraft industry are among the matters on which the Plowden Committee has now reported. I am considering this Report, and hope to make a statement about Shorts within a few weeks.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the jobs of two or three thousand people in Belfast depend on this gap being filled rapidly, that men are drifting away from the company, and that it is urgent that Government work be directed to Belfast? In spite of many promises before the election, no Government work whatever has been directed in over a year to Short Brothers and Harland.

I am aware of the difficulties of this company and I am very anxious to provide employment on useful work in Belfast, but we must not underestimate the difficulties, which I have never disguised from the hon. Gentleman or the House.

What has been the result of the work of the consultants appointed by the First Secretary of State?

The consultants reported to my right hon. Friend. The report is a matter for him, of course, but I think that I can go so far as to say that the report is extremely useful, though from the longer rather than the shorter-term point of view.

When will the right hon. Gentleman persuade the Government, as the majority shareholder, to take some action about employment at Shorts?

We are most anxious to deal with the position of employment at Shorts, but I do not think that it would be right to deal with this or any other employment situation by providing work which is not of importance.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement on the allocation of the final sub-contract work on the Phantom and Lockheed C130E, which is to be placed with the British aircraft industry.

Not yet, Sir. For some of the outstanding items, tenders are still being assessed and for other the closing date for tenders has not yet been reached.

Is the right hon. Gentleman fully aware of the urgency of this problem? Unless these decisions are taken quickly, key personnel, particularly design staff, will drift away from the industry and in many cases go abroad, so that no matter which decisions are taken ultimately, it may become impossible for the British aircraft industry to retain the important technological position which it has held? Will the right hon. Gentleman bring forward these decisions and announce them to the country and the aircraft industry as soon as possible?

The hon. Member went very wide indeed with that supplementary question. I do not think that all those issues are involved in the amount of subcontracting work on the Phantom and Lockheed C130E. On this narrower point, we have made good progress—at least as good as was expected. Short Bros, have a contract, and I hope that it is possible that they may even get some more work.

asked the Minister of Aviation what commission the British Government received in the sale of Bloodhound missiles to Australia.

None, Sir. The only receipts from contractors in respect of the sale of Bloodhound equipment to Australia were for the use of jigs and tools provided at Government expense.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that there is a suspicion that the Government took a considerable cut out of this, and that this has been a deterrent in the ordering of other defence material and equipment from this country?

I do not think that for a moment. The hon. Member may be aware that I visited Australia recently, and I discussed the matter with those involved. There have been difficulties about this contract, as with similar contracts in this country, but the view which the hon. Member put was not put to me at all in Australia. I do not think it unreasonable that the Government should have some return where they have provided large capital investment in jigs and tools.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether a full certificate of airworthiness has been granted to the Boeing 707/336 transport.

asked the Minister of Aviation what British certificate of airworthiness has been granted to the Boeing 707/336 freighter.

asked the Minister of Aviation why a British certificate of airworthiness is to be issued for the two British Overseas Airways Corporation's Boeing 707/336 freighters, although they do not conform to existing British civil airworthiness requirements.

The two Boeing 707/336c aircraft ordered by B.O.A.C. will be issued with certificates of airworthiness in the private category to permit them to be ferried from Seattle to England where some final modifications will be made with a view to the issue of a full certificate of airworthiness.

Will the Minister confirm that when granting certificates of airworthiness he is concerned only with the performance and handling of the aircraft and not its commercial future?

Yes. That is the case. In fact the position is that the A.R.B. was concerned with certain stall characteristics, and when they have been dealt with it will be for the A.R.B. to grant the certificate.

Could my hon. Friend say exactly what is the reason for the delay in the delivery of these aircraft? Is it due to the fact that the Boeings' wings are being fitted with sensors, as was done with the VCIO in order to bring it up to the same standard of airworthiness as the VCIO, which conforms to British standards?

These aircraft were due to be delivered in October and November. The critics of the British aircraft industry should note that these two aircraft ordered from the United States are two months and one month late on delivery because of a strike in Seattle.

Is it not a fact that the circumstances surrounding this decision are rather curious? Is there not strong evidence that pressure was brought to bear on the Air Registration Board to change its mind about its initial refusal? Will the Minister look into this?

I do not think that I can confirm that. In fact, the Air Registration Board is concerned about particular modifications. This aircraft is very similar, in the aerodynamic sense, to the 707/320, which is already flying around the world and which has been fully certificated by some other countries. The fact that there is a delay on this is because the A.R.B. standards are slightly higher than those in the United States.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary deny that undue pressure has been brought to bear on the Air Registration Board? He said that he could not confirm it. Could he deny it?

I repeat what I said: I cannot confirm this statement, which has been made, that any pressure has been brought to bear at all on the A.R.B. in regard to these particular matters.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Aviation what action he is taking to enable air services to the north of Scotland and the Islands to be continued on days when firemen and porters at certain airports within his responsibility are on strike.

I greatly regret the inconvenience caused to the public by these lightning and unofficial strikes. When they occur it is not possible to make arrangements at short notice, consistent with safety to enable air services to continue. I am glad to say, however, that the men have always undertaken to provide adequate fire service cover for air ambulance services.

Is the Minister aware that on these occasions air services to and from the north of Scotland are completely halted? Will he give high priority to finding a remedy to this situation?

Yes. I am aware of that and I greatly regret it, and I am very anxious to find a remedy by which these strikes will not continue to occur.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there seems to be a considerable amount of public sympathy for these men because, judging by what has been said to the public, they seem to be treated unfairly in comparison with other employees of the Ministry? Would he get somebody to obtain the facts about this so that we may know whether there is any justification for these suggestions? If there is a justification, could it not be removed?

There are very difficult questions of comparison involved—whether comparison is made with equivalent men at London Airport or with firemen doing the same job employed elsewhere, or by Glasgow Corporation. It is not a simple issue, but we are anxious to arrive at a solution, and I believe that talks are going on at the moment.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will permit the Society of British Aerospace Companies to arrange for the French aircraft industry to participate in the Farnborough Air Show.

asked the Minister of Aviation what representations he has received regarding foreign countries being invited to exhibit at the Society of British Aerospace Companies aviation display at Farnborough next year.

The Society of British Aerospace Companies has consulted me on its proposal that participation next year should be widened to in-dude exhibits containing a substantial proportion of British equipment from France and other countries belonging to the A.I.C.M.A.—the international organisation to which the aerospace trade associations of 11 European countries belong. As the S.B.A.C. announced yesterday, I have agreed to this.

Why did the Minister try to insist upon the Americans taking part in this show? Surely if we are trying to build up a European aircraft industry, he, as a good European, will agree that it is not a good idea to have our competitors there, too?

There is no question of anybody being there unless there is a very substantial British content. The value to this country of the British content, particularly in aero-engines in aircraft manufactured in America and in Japan, is not negligible. We have arrived at a happy solution and I hope that the show next year will be a great success on the new basis.

Why does not the Minister answer my hon. Friend's question? Is it not a fact that substantial pressure was put on him to let the Americans in? Does he not consider that he and his col- leagues have done enough for the American aircraft industry by this time? After all, it is our shop window.

I told the House frankly, and I repeat it if the hon. Member did not understand it, that of course I attach importance to Rolls-Royce aero-engines for American or Japanese aircraft, for instance. It did not think it right to give no consideration at all to this point of view. But we have arrived at a quite reasonable solution, and I hope that the hon. Member does not want to destroy it.

Is the Minister following up the last point which he made by trying to ensure that the F111A is equipped with Rolls-Royce engines?

That is a different question. There are other Questions on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps have been taken to consult residents in south-east London and north-west Kent about proposals to establish a third London airport south of the Thames.

The Government have no present proposals to establish a third London Airport in this area. A public inquiry is now being held into the proposed development of Stansted, Essex, as the third London Airport; objectors to that proposal have suggested alternative sites in north Kent.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement about the recent pay rise awarded to workers at London, Gatwick, Stansted and Prestwick airports.

The rates of pay of the majority of the Ministry's industrial employees at these airports have, since 1957, followed the rates agreed by the National Joint Council for Civil Air Transport for comparable work. Pending the transfer of these four airports on 1st April to the British Airports Authority, increases have been agreed which, when account is taken of the fact that Government superannuation is non-contributory, give parity with the rates of British European Airways which is the largest employer of comparable grades.

How can this very large pay rise for Government employees—I think it was about 25 per cent.—be reconciled with the incomes policy as laid down by the First Secretary of State?

The figure quoted by the hon. Gentleman is in no way accurate but, as I indicated, there is the question of comparability here, in which people doing the same thing at the same airport could not be allowed to go along on quite different rates of pay from those to whom an award had been made. In this way we have, for the first time, got recognition of the difference created by the non-contributory nature of the Government pension scheme, and that is an important consideration.

What about the comparable duties of the men at Turnhouse and Renfrew airports? Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will not use their position as a pawn in the game of wage negotiations at other airports?

I have no intention of using them as pawns in the game. I have already dealt with the point raised by the hon. Lady. But I seem to be under contrary pressures from Surbiton and Renfrew on this matter.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will raise the minimum height level for aircraft flying over the London area to 3,000 ft.

The effect of raising the minimum height of approaching aircraft in the London Central Zone from 2,000 to 3,000 ft., before they intercept the glide path, is being urgently studied and I hope to receive a report by the end of the year.

I am grateful for that reply. Will the right hon. Gentleman also look at the position regarding the glide path and try to ease the noise nuisance caused to residents living beneath it by taking steps to raise the angle of descent above the present three degrees?

That is a separate question. There are technical difficulties involved and I would be loath to go against the recommendations of the International Civil Aviation Organisation. I will look at this and all other possible measures of alleviating the burden of noise over London.

asked the Minister of Aviation if the electronic equipment for the Phantom aircraft will be manufactured in Great Britain.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave on 4th August, 1965, to the hon. Member for Poplar (Mr. Mikardo). Further items of British manufacture are under consideration.

Can my right hon. Friend give us a little more certainty about the future of the electronic installations? Will he realise that there is some uncertainty in the British industry at the moment? In view of this, will he give serious consideration to making electronic equipment available for the British versions of the Phantom?

Yes, Sir. We have already indicated that we are prepared, if necessary, to pay a substantial premium for British electronic and other equipment for the Phantom. There is, I believe, a general recognition that, as far as possible, when a foreign aircraft is bought we should install a substantial amount of British equipment, and we are doing so in the Phantom.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the Prime Minister's pledge earlier this year will be adhered to in this respect?

Yes, certainly.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he will appoint a consumer director to the board of British European Airways.

I hope to make an announcement by the end of this week.

Why have we had to wait so long'? It is now nine or ten months since the right hon. Gentleman told the House that he intended to appoint a consumer director. Where is the dynamic leadership we thought we were going to see?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on recovering so quickly from the unexpected nature of my reply. I always made it clear that I would make use of an available vacancy for this appointment. Such a vacancy did not occur until 30th September. There has, therefore, been no great delay.

Is not the fact that the Minister is to appoint a consumer director an extraordinary commentary upon B.E.A. market research and its attitude to consumers? Surely it should not be necessary to have such a director at all.

Not at all. This director will bear in mind these special considerations, but I hope that he or she will pay some regard to the general work of B.E.A. as well.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he will publish the conclusions of the market survey which he commissioned on the VC.10/DB265 project; and what action he proposes to take as a result of them.

asked the Minister of Aviation (1) why the market survey report on the VC.10 Superb has not been made public; and when the details of this report will be known;

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he has completed his study of the market survey of the VC.10 Superb; and when he will publish the survey and announce his conclusions.

As some airlines contributed to the market survey on a confidential basis, I am not free to publish the report. Its conclusions need careful consideration in conjunction with the recommendations of the Plowden Committee and I shall make a statement as soon as possible.

Meantime, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, because of the outstanding success of the VC 10—which is probably the best airliner of its type in the world at present —unless this project is encouraged with our Continental friends, Britain will be out of this race altogether? Will he personally give a lead by saying that the project should be progressed?

As the hon. and gallant Gentleman knows, I gave hard evidence in support of the success of the Super VC 10 in the Second Reading debate of the Air Corporations Bill. As for the further project—I have always taken the view that, since very large sums of public money would be involved, I was not prepared to recommend going ahead unless we could see a worth-while market. It is important to be convinced of that, otherwise we will pour public money down the drain.

Even if the public cannot see this Report, does not my right hon. Friend think that Members of Parliament at least are entitled to see it so that they can form a decision on it? Since Middle East Airlines seems now to prefer the British to the American version, will he give favourable consideration to supporting British aircraft and thus avoiding knocking out the British aircraft industry as well as the indebtedness to the Americans, which has to be paid for with hard needed dollars?

It is not generally very reasonable or easy to publish matters to hon. Members without also publishing them to the public as a whole. On the second point, we are following developments in Middle East Airlines with great interest and hope for a successful outcome. But we have to be assured of a rather wider market than is there represented.

Is my right hon. Friend still not satisfied that there is an adequate and useful market for the VC 10? If that is so as a result of the market survey, why does not he say so? We were promised a decision on this weeks, if not months, ago.

The House was not promised a decision months ago—there was no question of that. Such a decision requires very careful consideration. As I have said previously, £40 million of public investment would be involved for airframes and several tens of millions of £s more if engines were also to be developed as necessary. I am determined not to support the project unless it is sensible and worth while. If it is sensible and worth while, I shall be glad to go ahead.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recall how he titillated the interest of the House about this market survey during the Second Reading of the Air Corporations Bill? Will he therefore not reconsider his position, especially bearing in mind his own condemnation of the non-publication of the Corbett Report?

I am only against publication of reports where there would be a breach of confidence. I may add that the present Government have a very different record in the past year in this regard from that of the previous Administration, at least as far as the aircraft industry is concerned. It is not a question of my willingness or not. The Economist Intelligence Unit conducted the survey with airlines in confidence. I could not go back on that confidence.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps he is taking to encourage the supply of commercial airline pilots for the air corporations and independent airlines.

asked the Minister of Aviation what official facilities and grants are available for the training of commercial airline pilots; and what plans he has to grant further aid.

It is primarily the responsibility of the airlines to train the pilots they need. This they may do at any course approved by my Department, and grants of up to 25 per cent. of the cost are made to airlines in respect of properly selected students at any one of these approved courses.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that both the Air Corporations are advertising for pilots, as are other world airlines? How does he reconcile this with the fact that, only last year, B.O.A.C. offered "golden handshakes" to over 100 captains but stopped this when 52 of them had accepted? Now B.O.A.C. is advertising, having got rid of first-class material in men who are flying with other airlines now. Is this planning?

The position regarding senior flight captains was the responsibility of B.O.A.C. In any case, the recruiting now is for young pilots.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the local authorities are doing all they can to assist applicants who want this training? Is he satisfied that there is an adequate supply of instructors available for tuition in this respect?

I hope that the municipalities will be encouraged to put forward the names of prospective students. In answer to my hon. Friend's second point, I am satisfied that enough facilities in that regard are being provided.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement of his intentions regarding the future scale and objectives of aviation research.

asked the Minister of Aviation how many military aerospace research projects being undertaken at Government research establishments have either been cancelled or deferred because of the decision to switch to civil projects.

asked the Minister of Aviation (1) what instructions he has given for research work at the Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough, to be cancelled or slowed down; what projects are affected thereby; and what arrangements will be made for skilled personnel to find other work; (2) what instructions he has given for research work at the National Gas Turbine Establishment, Pyestock, to be cancelled or slowed down; what projects are affected thereby; and what arrangements will be made for skilled personnel to find other work.

Long-term decisions on the future scale and objective of aeronautical research and the size of the research establishments must await completion of the defence review and decisions on the recommendation of the Plowden Committee. Short-term adjustments in the programme have been made to take account of changes in the military aircraft programme. Complements have been frozen at their present levels, but no redundancies have been declared. There has been no diversion from military work, which would otherwise be desirable, because of the needs of civil projects.

Can the right hon. Gentleman therefore deny the reports that major changes in policy have already been made, because, as he will know, those reports are affecting the morale of staff?

Yes, I can deny them, but we must of course await what the Plowden Committee says on this as on other matters.

Why have contracts been frozen at their present level? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that aerospace research is of great importance to the economy of the country and that he must not take decisions which in any way interrupt the momentum of that work?

Complements have been frozen at their present level because, as the House knows, we found it necessary to make certain cut-backs in the industrial aircraft programme, cut-backs which were overwhelmingly justified, and it would have been quite inapposite and I would have been heavily criticised if, having made those cut-backs leading to some reductions in the industry, I had allowed the numbers employed in Government research establishments to go up substantially.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take care to see that information is given at an early stage if it is proposed to unfreeze the complements?

Yes, Sir. I will willingly give such an undertaking.

asked the Minister of Aviation what consideration the Government gave to the state of employment in the British aircraft industry before it decided to spend £180 million on United States F111 bombers.

No decision to buy this aircraft has yet been taken. The need to maintain employment in the aircraft industry at a level adequate for our future needs will be taken fully into account.

asked the Minister of Aviation what is Government policy on the maintenance of a prosperous and progressive aircraft industry in this country.

I would ask my hon. Friend to await the publication of the Plowden Committee's Report and a statement of the Government's views on its recommendations.

Will my right hon. Friend be very definite about his plans as Minister of Aviation to see that the British aircraft industry in many parts of the country will be fully supported by work for British aircraft and that less work is given to countries overseas?

Yes, Sir, but having appointed a Committee which, for the last year, has worked on this problem and whose Report is already with me and will be before the country very soon, it would be quite wrong for me to make a general statement in this interim period.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House to what extent he has explored the possibilities of buying-back arrangements with U.S. manufacturers wherever the Government find it necessary to buy aircraft from America?

We have gone very carefully into the matter of reciprocal purchases to which we attach great importance.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take every step in his power to see that projects in which this country has a manufacturing interest receive just as much publicity from air correspondents as American projects to which they receive invitations for indoctrination?

Certainly we will endeavour to do that, but I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not wish me to try to prevent air correspondents from going to America, or anywhere else, and writing about what they see.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement about his evaluation of the Spey/Mirage fitted with the TSR2 avionics as compared with the latest version of the F111A.

Our evaluation of the Spey/Mirage has been completed. It is now being considered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence and myself.

Does not the dilemma in which the Government now find themselves show that they made a grotesque error in cancelling the TSR2? Whatever their Canberra replacement decision may be, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to give the fullest possible information to the House on the facts concerning the various alternatives which he has considered? Finally, would he promise, whatever the decision—or whether or not there is a decision—to make a further statement to this House before it rises for the Christmas Recess?

On the first point there is no question, either in my view or the view of the Government, that the TSR2 decision has been shown to be a mistake. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Whatever replacement we find for the Canberra we will save at least £300 million, and probably a great deal more. To have gone ahead, without saving this sum of money, would have made it quite impossible to maintain any ceiling at all to the defence budget. The answer to the second point of the hon. Gentleman's question is that this is primarily a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, who will inform the House of the position before it rises.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many hon. Members on this side of the House, viewing today's Order Paper, are getting increasingly concerned at the efficiency of the public relations body operating on behalf of the aircraft industry?

If we really want to assist the aircraft industry and obtain better co-operation with the French, surely it would be better to give them a more advanced plane than the Spey/Mirage?

If by that the hon. Member is referring to variable geometry projects, I would say to him and the House that I attach the greatest possible importance to this project, and we will bear it very much in mind in making our decisions, so that we shall do nothing that will endanger the future of such a project.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will take steps to improve the overseas arrival and waiting area at London Airport.

A major development programme is in hand. It includes a new passenger building and the addition of piers to the two existing international buildings. The improvements will be introduced stage by stage, and as quickly as possible; the first pier was completed and brought into use in June.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the present waiting lounge is one of the scruffiest in Europe? Can he assure the House that the new one will be up to the best standards among European airports?

At certain times of the week there is considerable congestion, and it is impossible for the lounge to be cleaned at the speed that it should, perhaps, be, to deal with the crowds using it. I am satisfied that the work which is under way will bring about a fine improvement at Heathrow.

asked the Minister of Aviation what study he has made of the suggestion made by Dr. Barnes Wallis to the British Association meeting at Cambridge on 2nd September, 1965, details of which have been sent to him, concerning the building of a British aircraft capable of flying at 300,000 feet at 28 times the speed of sound; and what research is proceeding into the building of such an aircraft.

We are not at present contemplating building a hypersonic research aircraft, but problems associated with sub-orbital aircraft are being studied within a continuing but limited programme of hypersonic research.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people are very fed up at seeing this country having to buy Dr. Barnes Wallis's invention? Can he give us an assurance that this will not happen again—that a British invention will not be developed overseas instead of at home?

We will certainly follow this closely but before I invest a great sum of money in building Mach 28 aircraft I think we had better get our Mach 2·2 flying.

On a point of order. I do not think that my right hon. Friend answered Question No. 44, Mr. Speaker.

That is not a point of order.

I owe an apology to the hon. Member for Watford (Mr. Raphael Tuck), whose point of order I misunderstood. I thought that he was questioning the Answer which the Minister had just given to a Question. He would have been out of order in doing so. I imagine now that what he was seeking to do was to ask whether his Question had been answered with a previous one. The answer is that it had been answered with a previous one.

asked the Minister of Aviation what help he will give towards the provision of air services for Carlisle; and if he will make a statement.

The provision of air services is a matter for the operators themselves, and recent inquiries have shown that no operator yet considers demand for a London-Carlisle service sufficient to warrant starting. I am conscious of Carlisle's desire for air services and propose shortly to extend the scope and membership of the present North East Advisory Committee for Civil Aviation to cover Cumberland and Westmorland.

Will my hon. Friend continue to use his powers with the airlines in order to bring this service to Carlisle, as it is long overdue?

I am conscious of the great anxiety displayed in Carlisle, and by its representative here, and I will certainly do my best to persuade the airlines to consider this proposal seriously.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will take steps to beautify Aberdeen Airport by exhibiting there pictures or other illustrations of distinguished aviators and their exploits.

I consider this suggestion to be a very useful one indeed and I will consider the proposal.

Is the Minister aware the Scottish travellers retain their aesthetic tastes and sense of history even while waiting to board a plane? Will he therefore reconsider this?

I do not hope to reconsider my reply, because it was that I was going to consider the proposal. I hope that, if this can be adopted at Aberdeen, it may also be applied at some other airports for which we are responsible so as to improve the amenities, as suggested.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will consider amending the plans for the proposed extension to the airport building at the civil airport at Aldergrove, County Antrim, so as to include a passenger escalator for the convenience of the travelling public.

No, Sir, for the reasons given in my reply to the hon. Member on 5th May, 1965.

Would not the hon. Gentleman consider it wise to change his policy, as there are so many passengers using this airport? We axe now in the late 'sixties, approaching the 'seventies, and would not he agree that it would be very much better to have escalators to take passengers to the first storey, where they have to go before boarding the aircraft?

As the hon. and learned Gentleman knows, I have been pursuing this question for some time and I have seen, on site, some of the improvements at this airport. I am satisfied that, for the elderly and infirm people, it will be better if a lift is provided, and this is being done.