asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what steps he is taking to remedy the shortage of water supplies in Essex; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what steps he is taking to remedy the shortage of water supplies in north-east Essex; and whether he will make a statement.

The Essex water undertakers are doing all they can to develop local resources, but the remedy can come only partly from Essex. The Water Resources Board is now concluding an inquiry into water supplies throughout south-east England and will soon put forward recommendations for bringing water to Essex from elsewhere.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the situation in south-east Essex will be grave by 1969 unless a new source of supply is found by 1972? This means that a start must be made now. In view of this, why is it that the water undertakers who have their plans all ready for this new source of supply have been told by the hon. Gentleman's Department to wait until the survey for the South-East is completed? Can the hon Gentleman say when the survey for the South-East will be completed?

I think certainly in time to meet the understandable doubts of the Southend company.

Will the hon. Gentleman give all the support he can to the Tendring Hundred Water Company and the other local authorities in the plan they have brought out which should go a long way towards meeting the requirements in north-east Essex?

The Water Resources Board and river authority will look at all the schemes.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that proposals to take water for north-east Essex from the county of west Suffolk is causing acute concern among farmers who are already paying a very high price for their water?

That is why we have to have something like the Water Resources Board to arbitrate between the conflicting claims.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will take steps to authorise time limits on the grant of planning permission so that such permission should lapse if not used within a certain period.

Planning authorities already have power to do this in individual cases. My right hon. Friend is, however, considering whether any amendment of the law would be desirable so as to standardise practice.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary noted that his right hon. Friend the Minister of Land and Natural Resources advocated this at a town planning meeting in January? How is it that that Minister announces this policy rather than the Minister of Housing and Local Government?

I do not think that there is any difference of opinion about this. In some cases, particularly where the proposal is unique, there is a strong case for having time limits. On the other hand, a difficulty in other cases is that it simply encourages token development to keep the planning permission alive, which does not help anyone.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government the average sum paid by a domestic ratepayer in England and Wales in 1951–52 and in 1964–65, and the average percentage annual increase at compound interest over this period.

:The average rate payment per domestic hereditament in 1951–52 was approximately £16 8s. and in 1964–65 £32 8s. 5d. The average annual increase at compound interest over this period is about 5·4 per cent.

Will the Minister give widespread publicity to that reply in view of the misleading statements which are circulating from some of his hon. Friends and candidates in order to make sure that people get the figures right?

These figures from 1951 are interesting in themselves, but I do not think they are very important. The important figure, if one is serious, would be after revaluation, because they cannot be judged before then. I warn the hon. Member that if we were to take the figures from 1957 onwards the result of compound interest would show a considerable increase.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will give a general estimate of the impact on rates in the Greater London area due to the effect of the London Government Act.

The average increase in rates in Greater London this year was 20 per cent., but my right hon. Friend cannot say exactly how much of this was due to reorganisation. Rising standards of service and some over-estimating were probably contributory factors.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the London Government Act, forced through by the Conservative Adminstration, has had a disastrous effect upon the ratepayers of London?

The whole working of the London Government Act is, of course, being watched by the present Government. It is much too early to commit the Minister to any change in the actual structure. It may well be that a future Government will have to look at the question of functions.

Has not the time already come for the Government to stop watching and to do something about London government? One or two undesirable features have already manifested themselves, and, although we know they will be dealt with after the election, may we have an assurance that they will be dealt with after the election?

Yes, but the Government came into power only in October 1964 and already the London Government Act had been implemented to the extent that the London boroughs had been constituted and elections had taken place. The Government felt, and rightly so, that it was quite impossible once again to change this enormous structure. It would be most unfortunate to London if any question were now to be bandied about that somehow the whole of London Government would be put into chaos.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what action he now proposes to take to alleviate the burden of rate increases which threaten householders.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will now take steps, by legislation or otherwise, to increase the general grant to local authorities so as to reduce the burden of rates.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government when he will publish his further proposals on rating reform; when the proposed legislation will be introduced; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Members to the White Paper presented last Friday.

Is the Minister aware how delighted we are that he has given in to the pressure of myself and some of my hon. Friends? What is the cost of his proposals? Will he say when he would be prepared to receive a deputation from my constituency concerning rating, about which I wrote to him some time ago?

I am always delighted to give pleasure to the hon. Member, even when the pleasure is caused by my implementing my own ideas. I will certainly consider receiving a deputation from him, although I should like notice of what particularly this one will be about.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in a constituency like South Shields some 3,000 households are likely to benefit from his rent rebate scheme and that we are delighted about it?

Yes. I am aware that now that the rent rebate scheme has been explained its importance is seen. Two million families are benefiting, 75 per cent. of them pensioners. I am also aware that people feel that to pay 25 per cent. of the cost is a burden. That is why we had our second Bill, under which we are derating the domestic ratepayer to the extent of half the annual increase from the rates.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will give details of the steps he is taking to alleviate the general increase this year in the burden of local rates.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what action he proposes to take to help ratepayers unaffected by, and outside the scope of, the Bill now before Parliament, who will be hit by rate rises this spring.

Proposals for four major alleviations of the rating system are on their way to the Statute Book. First, domestic ratepayers are to be derated to the extent on average of about half the usual annual increase in rates. Second, empty property is to be rated. Third, all domestic ratepayers will be able to pay their rates by instalments. Fourth, rate rebates are being provided for 2 million ratepayers of limited means at a cost to the Exchequer of £22 million.

Will the Minister appreciate that in answering Question No. 15 he is being asked what alleviation it is proposed to grant this year? Does not his Answer, in fact, amount to nothing?

No, it does not. I am curious to notice how the right hon. Gentleman now cannot even listen. This year, from April next, provided that the other place is convenient, there will be in force the Bill to operate the rate rebate scheme, which will give £22 million of Exchequer money distributed to 2 million families This is infinitely more than everything put together that was done during the previous 13 years.

Is the Minister aware that his colleague the Minister of Agriculture is seeking to force upon the Essex local authorities a higher proportion of the cost of flood prevention, which will have to be borne by the rates? This is in conflict with everything that the right hon. Gentleman has said. I do not expect him to give an answer now, but would he care to look into this matter?

I regard that as a different question, but if it is put down I will certainly look into it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government on what factors he based his decision to discard the public trustee system in the administration of Alexandra Park and Palace, in view of the successful operation of this system by the local authorities concerned over many years.

I cannot agree that the administration has been successful. The efforts of the trustees have been severely hampered by limitations in their powers and by lack of funds, and it has long been clear that it was impossible to get the maximum benefit from the Park and Palace under the present system. In deciding to entrust control to the Greater London Council, I am convinced that I have achieved the essential basis—unified control and availability of capital—for the development, frustrated for so many years, of this superb 220-acre site for the good of London and of the whole nation

In view of the general concern about the rate burden, is it not a retrograde step to transfer the Palace from a local authority trust which, whatever my right hon. Friend may say, has administered it successfully for more than 60 years without any call whatever on the rates? Is it not a discourtesy and most unfair to the borough of Haringey, which has the Palace wholly within its area, to deprive it of any say in its future control?

In reply to the last point, my hon. Friend already knows, I think, that the Greater London Council has given an express assurance that Haringey will be represented on the managing committee. As for the question of whether keeping within the rates is the sole test of the use of this magnificent site, I have visited it and walked round with the manager, who told me that the revenue with which he was provided by the trustees was not sufficient even to do one coat of paint on the inside. He had a £6,000 revenue subvention each year, two-thirds of it from Middlesex. This was not sufficient, and I felt, therefore, that the chance should be given to the Greater London Council.

For what purpose does the Minister contemplate that the Greater London Council will use the site?

If one looked at the site and then went across to Crystal Palace and saw the difference in the development of that other park site, one would see the kind of thing that the Greater London Council would do.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he is now prepared to grant loan sanction to local authorities for the purchase of land for future requirements; and what limit he intends to impose on the total expenditure for this purpose which he will authorise in the coming financial year.

I am prepared to authorise purchase of land in advance of requirements only where there is special need. I cannot say what total expenditure will be authorised for this purpose in the coming year.

Does not the restriction to cases of special need to local authorities go very ill with the intention to provide £45 million for the Land Commission to use for the same purpose? Would it not be better to apply this money to the existing and perfectly competent local authorities?

Certainly we are applying it through the local authorities, but the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that even when we do this we must take care to ensure that it is wisely used. The particular source—purchases under benefit and improvement—have risen from £8 million to £21 million per annum in three years, and we felt that it was time to look very carefully at this matter.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he is satisfied with the interpretation which local authorities are making of Planning Bulletin No. 7, entitled "Parking in Town Centres", and if he will make a statement.

Yes, in general; but the Bulletin covers many aspects of parking and if the hon. Member has any particular difficulty in mind I will look into it.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the general suggestion that when a developer is not allowed car parking space outside the property concerned he should make a subscription for general car parks when he has no priority in them, leads to an unfortunate atmosphere between the planning authority and the developer?

I think these schemes can be done by voluntary arrangement, and I see no objection to that.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what further steps he is taking to solve the problem of the dumping of derelict vehicles.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what results have accrued as a result of his Circular 8/65 concerning the disposal of abandoned motor vehicles.

Since the issue of Circular 8/65 the Department have continued joint discussions with trade and local authority organisations. Many local authorities have acted on the advice in the circular or are considering how best to do so. The scrap metal and car-breaking trades are interested in extending their activities and there is now better contact between them and local authorities. The situation is constantly under review but the progress already made is encouraging.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for his Answer, may I ask if he will tell the House what he is going to do about the derelict junk on his own Front Bench?

That question was a waste of time.

I think the derelict junk on the Front Bench will thrive and blossom between now and 31st March.

Can the Minister tell us what results have actually accrued as the result of his circular, particularly in Hertfordshire?

I think that most authorities which have a problem of any size are having discussions, as they are having in Hertfordshire, either for a joint effort, to have common services and sharing them between them, or by agreements with scrap merchants, where that can be done.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the aldermanic system, he will introduce legislation to bring it to an end.

There are arguments for and against the aldermanic system, but more against in my own personal view. The subject is one that the Maud Committee on People in Local Government are looking into, and it is undoubtedly one for the Royal Commission.

Must this not be the most indecisive Government in human history? Is not every issue, however trivial, shifted off to somebody else's responsibility?

The hon. Member should recall that the decision to study the aldermanic system was taken by my predecessor, who set up the Maud Committee over two years ago.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will now make a statement on the proposed further expansion of Swindon.

The consultants' report on the Newbury-Swindon area will be published next week. I will make a statement then.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will introduce legislation to make the provision of approved life-saving equipment at seaside resorts a statutory obligation on local authorities and to require notices stating the site and use of such equipment to be prominently displayed.

Local authorities have power under the Public Health Act, 1936, to provide life-saving appliances. The number of appliances required and their type and siting must differ from place to place; and it would be difficult to prescribe minimum standards. My right hon. Friend thinks it is best left to the authorities themselves to decide what is needed in their areas.

Yes, but what action does the Minister propose to take to satisfy himself that local authorities carry out the review under Circular 52/65, and will he set up some system whereby there is periodical inspection of safety precautions?

My right hon. Friend would not wish to force local authorities in this matter. He has no evidence that they are not carrying out their duties in the matter as one would expect them to. If the hon. Gentleman has other evidence I shall certainly be glad to look into it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government (1) when he expects to give his decision concerning the confirmation of a compulsory purchase order for the site for the sewage disposal works in Stockbridge, Hampshire;

The compulsory purchase order was confirmed, and approval given to the sewerage and sewage disposal scheme, on 21st February.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that encouraging reply, may I ask whether he can give an assurance that this scheme, which has been outstanding since 1936, will not be further delayed by any cuts imposed by his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer during the short time available to him?

Yes.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what progress he is making in co-ordinating action with other Government departments with a view to devising a method of helping local authorities who suffer financial hardship from having to clean beaches polluted by the discharge of oil at sea and in the estuaries.

My right hon. Friend is proposing to discuss with the local authority associations certain aspects of the problem of oil pollution. But he has at present no evidence that expenditure on cleaning polluted beaches is imposing financial hardship on local authorities and he can hold out no hope of direct Exchequer assistance for this purpose.

But surely the Joint Parliamentary Secretary knows that a proposal has already been made to his Department on this subject by one local authority in my constituency, and it has been told that his Department agreed to co-ordinate action on this? As the Reply seems to contradict this, can he say what progress has been made?

I think it was told that my Department would co-ordinate views. The Department did not pledge itself to any action.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this contamination is now reaching the beaches of West Dorset. Everything is getting more and more oily? Why?

Is my hon. Friend aware that many beaches are becoming polluted because of the discharge of oil too near to shores and that, because of the inordinate expense that it would take to clean them up, local authorities are not able to do so, and many bathing facilities are being lost?

rose—

Order. No hon. Gentleman has a prescriptive right to be called. Mr. MacColl.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the problems. He is also drawing the attention of local authorities to the offer of the Institute of Petrôleum to put their research facilities to the benefit of local authorities on the problem. It is not confined to oil tankers, nor to ships which are coming into port.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he is aware of the concern of many who live in rural areas and whose interests are adversely affected by agricultural development possible under existing planning legislation; and if he will review such legislation with a view to protecting the rights of those thus affected.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the concern felt about the erection of conspicuous agricultural buildings, and he is reviewing, in consultation with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the provisions which enable some farm buildings to be erected without the need to apply to the local planning authority for permission.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in Nottinghamshire and other county areas grain stores and other large developments can take place agriculturally, much to the objection of other local residents and outside present planning controls, and will he act as soon as possible after his return following the General Election?

My right hon. Friend appreciates that one new and difficult problem is that of the height of silos and grain driers, and he is looking into the point.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what progress has been made in the clearance of derelict pitheaps in the county of Durham; why Government grants are con fined to schemes exclusively planned for industrial development; and whether it is intended to extend the scheme beyond 1967.

So far 27 schemes for treating spoil heaps covering about 509 acres in Co. Durham have been approved for grant under the provisions of the Local Employment Act, 1960. Grant is payable for the clearance of land whether for industrial or other purposes where my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is satisfied that schemes will enhance employment prospects. As announced in the recent White Paper "Investment Incentives", the power to pay grant will be renewed by fresh legislation when the Act expires.

As these are only schemes, can my hon. Friend give any estimate of when they are likely to be completed? Is it not very important to make the county more attractive to industrial development, and would not these monuments to capitalism be better removed?

On my last visit to Durham, I was impressed with the work the local authorities are doing in dealing with spoil heaps, and I think that progress is reasonable.

Can my hon. Friend give an indication to the House of how soon we can anticipate the introduction of amending legislation which will carry grants beyond 1st April, 1967, under the present legislation?

I cannot anticipate the precise date of any piece of legislation, but it is the intention both to extend the present scheme and, as mentioned in the White Paper on Local Government Finance, to have a new grant of 50 per cent. not linked to employment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government in view of the new Government policy on local government reorganisation, what is his policy regarding the present claims of Poole for county borough status.

Consideration of the future status of Poole must await the findings of the Royal Commission to be set up to make a comprehensive review of local government in England.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that as long ago as 1947 a Local Government Boundary Commission recommended certain improvements in the status of Poole, that his predecessor gave certain assurances in 1955, and that the people of Poole will regard the present decision with astonishment and disgust?

I am aware that Poole is a very hard case because of the fact the hon. Gentleman mentioned about the assurances given some years ago. However, I would point out that the time that it would take under our present procedure would mean that Poole could not hope to get any change of status until well into the '70s if I had left the Boundary Commission still functioning.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there might possibly be something to be said for creating a single urban authority to include Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch?

There is something to be said for that, and it is doubtless something which the Royal Commission will look at carefully when drawing up its final plans.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government to what extent the Derwent Reservoir is likely to be used for the development of sailing facilities; and what restrictions will be imposed on this sport.

I am glad to learn that the water company and water board concerned have taken steps to find out the demand for sailing facilities; they would themselves be responsible for any restrictions to be imposed on the use of the Derwent reservoir for sailing.

I join with my right hon. Friend in congratulating the water undertaking on its enterprise. Can he tell me when there is any possibility of a Government grant being made available for this development, and will he seek to ensure that there is not too much restriction placed on this large stretch of water for dinghy sailing, having regard to the limited facilities in the northern region?

It is a matter for the water board and the water company concerned to make their own rules. I am trying to encourage them now to use these reservoirs for amenity purposes so that the word "reservoir" is not an unpleasant word but a word that means real enjoyment in future.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he is aware that the East Riding County Council has not completed the draft map stage of the footpath survey; and whether he will now use his default powers under Section 37 of the National Parks Act 1949.

My right hon. Friend is considering whether to make a direction requiring the county council to prepare a provisional map and he is in correspondence with the Council about this.

Is the Minister aware that east Yorkshire is the only county which has not yet completed its survey? Is not action imperative, particularly in view of the White Paper issued yesterday by the Minister of Land and Natural Resources about access to the countryside?

My right hon. Friend shares the concern of my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, West (Mr. James Johnson) that there has been slowness in progress. That is why we are now in consultation with the county council on procedure, before issuing a directive, if necessary.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he is aware that local authorities operating town development schemes are finding that their rate burdens are substantially increased thereby; and whether he will consider the financial position of such authorities, with a view to granting them special assistance with their town development schemes.

The Housing Subsidies Bill will substantially increase the financial assistance available for houses built under town development schemes. I think we should see the effect of these arrangements before considering further legislation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Housing Subsidies Bill will help such local authorities only at some time in the future, whereas the present financial load, due to the existing town development which has been going on for several years, in some cases requires alleviation? Will the Minister look further into this problem?

I do not accept that from the right hon. and learned Gentleman, because, as he knows, in our new Amendment to the Bill we have given further assistance because overspill schemes related to exporting authorities will benefit by the arrangement under which houses completed and not merely approved after November will draw the subsidy—and, under these new arrangements, there is not only the basic subsidy which goes up from £24 to £67, but a £24 subsidy in addition, half from the exporting authority and half from me.

Is not the Bill on which the Minister relies for his answer one of the casualties of Dissolution? Would it not be better to provide extra money in this way for local authorities, rather than to provide £45 million for the Land Commission?

The right hon. Gentleman is ill advised to risk talking about casualties.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government, in view of the proposal to build a new city of 750,000 people on the south bank of the Humber in Lincolnshire, if he will suspend all local government boundary inquiries until a final decision on this major project is reached.

Local inquiries have already been held into objections to the proposals of the Local Government Commission for the extension of Kingston upon Hull and Grimsby county boroughs. The Commission made no further proposals for the Humberside area.

Is the Minister aware of the ridiculous waste of time on the part of local government officials when they are asked to make inquiries into these proposed boundary alterations, when a much bigger scheme may be superimposed, making this work unnecessary?

We are extremely desirous that all the work which can be done by the Commission shall be implemented in the two or three years ahead. Therefore, I permitted these inquiries to take place.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government, in view of his decision that local government boundary proposals on which decisions have not yet been taken will be considered on their merits in the light of the decision to appoint a Royal Commission, if the Grimsby-Cleethorpes proposals will not now be proceeded with until the Royal Commission has reported.

A public local inquiry was held last month into objections to the Local Government Commission's proposals for Grimsby and Cleethorpes. I will consider what action to take when I have received the Inspector's report of the inquiry.

May we take it that that means that the decision, not having been taken, will be suspended until the Royal Commission has made its report?

No. I repeat what I said the last time I was asked about this matter. What we have decided, broadly speaking, is that in respect of those cases in which we have reached the inquiry stage and beyond, we shall examine their merits and try to complete them if possible.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government how many houses were under construction by local authorities in the East and West Ridings of Yorkshire at the end of 1965.

16,640.

Is my hon. Friend quite satisfied that this figure even remotely corresponds to the need in the East and West Ridings? Is he aware that on page 173 of the National Plan housing conditions in that area in terms of quality are described as the worst in the country? Is he not also aware that from 1951 to 1964 only 5·2 houses per 1,000 estimated population were built in the East and West Ridings compared with the national figure of 5·8? Will my hon. Friend look at the figure again?

I undertake to do that on behalf of my hon. Friend. He will know that it is my Minister's policy to ensure that in future programming priority is given to areas where the need is greatest.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he is satisfied that local authorities have sufficient powers to ensure that houses which are left vacant and become a nuisance to adjoining properties and dangerous to children are made secure and weatherproof within a reasonable period of time; and if he will make a statement.

The powers in the Public Health Acts are generally sufficient to enable local authorities to deal with these houses. A few authorities have obtained, or are seeking, rather wider powers in local Acts. But my right hon. Friend is not aware that there is a problem which calls for general legislation.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in many towns such as Bolton this is an increasing problem and that they would like to have compulsory powers to enable them to force owners to seal up these houses before they become a danger to children and a dumping ground for all sorts of rubbish?

The Minister is open to persuasion on this, and if it can be shown to be a widespread problem he is prepared to consider proposals for strengthening the powers of local authorities.

Is my hon. Friend aware that if the Minister goes ahead with his proposal to rate empty properties it will help to end this nuisance, will relieve the rates, and will make property-owners who are holding out for a high price and keeping houses empty which are badly needed put them on the market?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government when he anticipates reaching a target of 400,000 completed houses in one year.

This year.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that reply will be received with great satisfaction—[HON. MEMBERS: "It is nonsense."]—not only on these benches but in the constituencies?

As the right hon. Gentleman failed to do it last year, what reason have we to believe he will be successful this?

Last year all we achieved—I have to repeat it—was to exceed the Tory record by 9,000. This year we shall build 400,000. In the public sector we shall go widely ahead, and the private sector, provided it can, as I think it will, recover from the slump, should do very well indeed.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the number of houses completed in January, 1966, was less than that completed in January, 1965? How does this square up with his claim to build more houses?

I would suggest to the hon. Gentleman that monthly comparisons can be extremely misleading.

Can my right hon. Friend say what he anticipates the effects of the housing subsidies will be, particularly with regard to the large conurbations such as Manchester and Liverpool, where, as a result, these areas have fixed higher targets for next year?

We have set all the conurbations much higher targets, and the housing subsidies create the financial possibility, and the only limitation is a limitation we ourselves imposed upon the authorities, because we have to ration them in terms of the public money available.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government (1) what criteria he used in fixing fees for part-time employment of 15 guineas a day for professional members, 12 guineas a day for lay members and 18 guineas a day for chairmen of the rent assessment committees;

I will, with permission answer this Question and Written Question No. 6 together.

Is the Minister aware of the fact that it is rather invidious—for busmen, for example, who cannot get a few shillings extra—to find that these people who very often have as many as four or five other sources of income can, for a relatively part-time appointment, receive such large sums? Did he consider referring this to the Prices and Incomes Board before making these appointments?

I would like my hon. Friend to realise that I was under great pressure—and rightly under great pressure—to ensure that we had qualified people for the rent assessment committees, and if we are to have qualified professional people doing our work we must pay the rate for the job to the qualified people.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether, in view of the special housing needs in Crawley through the expansion of industry, he will announce plans for a large increase in the construction of houses through the agency of the New Towns Commission for Crawley.

My right hon. Friend hopes to agree a programme with all those concerned quite shortly. The problem is to increase the number of houses built by all agencies without prejudicing a decision on the future size of the town.

But is the hon. Gentleman aware that if industry is to function properly in Crawley another 5,000 houses at least will be required by 1970? Can he give no indication at this stage whether that target itself can be met?

The meeting with the agencies concerned took place yesterday. We are aware of the problem here, particularly with regard to the shortage of labour for industry. I think I can say to the hon. Gentleman that we shall do all we can to ensure that that problem is met.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what discussions he has held with the Greater London Council on the basis of paragraph 41 of the Housing Programme 1965–70, Command Paper No. 2838.

None so far. My right hon. Friend intends to start discussions with the local authority associations and the Greater London Council shortly.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman to expedite these discussions in view of the seriousness of the matter?

We certainly will have discussions with them very soon.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Govern- ment how the Greater London Council's rejection of the advice given in paragraph 41 of the Housing Programme 1965–1970. Command Paper No. 2838, will affect that programme, in view of the fact that the Council controls nearly a quarter of a million council dwellings.

My right hon. Friend is not aware that the G.L.C. has rejected his advice. In principle its social aid scheme is in line with the White Paper.

Will the hon. Gentleman at least make quite sure that what he thinks is the case is the case, because otherwise fewer houses are likely to be built, and would it not be true, therefore, that the necessity to cater for the real need would be diminished?

There is a fundamental difference of opinion between the two sides of the House. My right hon. Friend is determined that he will only have discussions with local authorities on the implementation of a rent rebate scheme. We are opposed to a differential rent scheme. The present scheme of the G.L.C. is a rent rebate scheme, and in that sense therefore we favour it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if, in view of the large unsatisfied demand for housing loans from councils, he will seek to fix a maximum limit on the amount local authorities can lend borrowers on any one house.

When I have completed my review of local authority lending arrangements, and the part which they should play in the financing of house purchase, I expect to issue further advice to local authorities which will cover this point.

Would it not be fairer if such councils as Kensington, instead of lending £20,000 to one individual who could get the money elsewhere, lent £2,000 each to ten individuals who cannot get the money elsewhere?

Yes. It is fair to say that the Kensington Council asserts that it did not exclude anyone else because of lending the £20,000. As I shall make clear in the directive that we give, my own view is that that scale of loan is out of key with local government lending and should be left to the proper people to do it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government when he expects the first decisions on rent reductions by a rent assessment committee will be reached and announced.

Rent assessment committees in Greater London, which is the first area to come into operation, are not likely to hear cases before the latter part of this month, but in the normal course their decision would be announced at the hearing, which can be attended by the Press.

Will the Minister note, I hope with pleasure, that some London landlords are now accepting rent reductions of up to £3 12s. per week without taking cases to the rent assessment committees, which suggests that they do not regard those reductions as unreasonable?

I am delighted to hear that news, particularly because the time taken by our rent officers is longer than we anticipated, and it is very important that people should read the cases that have now been published and draw their own conclusions about the kinds of agreements that can be reached between landlords and tenants.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government (1) if he is aware of the deteriorating condition of flats in the Sheffield area, particularly Martin Street, due to cladesporium labatum; and what advice he is giving to local authorities to deal with such deterioration in new flats;

My right hon. Friend is aware of the difficulties in the Martin Street flats and elsewhere.

I acknowledge that reply, but does the Minister blame this on the quality of building construction or the lack of care by tenants in looking after the flats and houses they possess? Is he aware that this is a serious problem in many buildings throughout the country?

I am not putting the blame upon anybody in regard to these flats. I understand that cladesporium labatum is mildew, and that the trouble with these flats is due to the heating, or lack of heating, in some of them. If the hon. Member will refer this matter to the Building Research Station it will be glad to look into it.