asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what plans he has to meet the National Farmers' Union to discuss recent developments in the European Economic Community negotiations.

The United Kingdom farmers' unions are kept fully informed of the progress and prospects of the negotiations with the European Economic Community. My agricultural colleagues and I have had a joint meeting with the unions and are always ready to discuss problems.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that nothing happening now in the E.E.C. negotiations is inspiring confidence amongst farmers? Is he also aware that in Scotland opposition to our joining the E.E.C. is gaining considerable ground?

I think I can say that I am in closer touch with farmers than the hon. Gentleman is, and I believe that a considerable number of farmers are looking forward to the prospects that European entry will bring to them.

Does the Minister agree that many sections of British agriculture will find it extremely profitable to go into Europe, and that entry will allow us first and foremost to take a much larger share in home production?

Yes, Sir; I fully support that view. I believe that the interests of British agriculture would be well looked after within the Common Market. I see no reason at all why British farmers should not do extremely well against their European competitors.

Is the Minister aware of the remarks made by Mr. Inverarity, the Chairman of the Scottish National Farmers' Union, in which he expressed concern about the hill sector in particular? Will the right hon. Gentleman repeat the assurances given by the previous Government that the hill sector and the uplands would be the subject of special negotiations?

Yes, certainly. The hill sector and the uplands are the subject of special negotiations, and these negotiations have still to take place. I fully recognise the worries to which the hon. Gentleman and Mr. Inverarity have drawn attention.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what assessment he has made of the impact of the European Economic Community fisheries policy on the British fishing industry in the event of the United Kingdom's joining the Common Market.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what estimate he has made of the effect of the European Economic Community fishing policy on the British fishing industry in the event of Great Britain joining the Common Market.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will specify the advantages to the British fishing industry of joining the Common Market.

It is too early to make an overall assessment of how the common fisheries policy will affect our fishing industry. Various detailed provisions of that policy have yet to be settled, and much would depend on the terms of entry negotiated.

On the contrary, is not this one of the areas where the price of British entry can be calculated with some precision, since the Common Market has adopted its fisheries policy and has refused to alter it in spite of all the representations of Her Majesty's Government?

Not necessarily, because this is what the negotiations are about. We are well aware of the problems and the representations made by the inshore fishing industry, and these will be taken into account in the negotiations.

What the Minister said when last we raised the question was that the British Government had reserved their position. Can we know more pre- cisely what is the position we are reserving? Are we reserving our position regarding the inshore fleet, or the prospect of the accession of Norway to the Common Market and its effect on our deep-water fleet?

This is a much wider question, but the British Trawlers Federation is not worried about the accession of Norway, and would like very much to have access to Norway's fishing grounds. This shows exactly how complicated the whole common fisheries policy is and how we had better not come to any rash decisions before we have completed the negotiations.

Will the Minister say whether the E.E.C. countries have any inshore waters comparable to our own? Is he aware that because of the shortage of herrings everywhere else in Europe, our herrings find a very profitable export market in E.E.C. at the moment?

As far as I know, there would be no comparable inshore waters. Again, this must be a matter for negotiation, and the conservation interests must be properly looked after. I recognise that there is a good export of herrings. I only wish there were more boats available to catch them off the East Coast.

Is the Minister taking my Question No. 14 with this Question?

No.

Could the Minister say whether on this important subject he is having consultations with the unions representing the fishermen in connection with entry into E.E.C., as he is having with the N.F.U. in connection with agriculture?

We have not had consultations with the unions. We have had consultations so far with the British Trawlers Federation and with the sea fisheries committees, which I myself have met, but if the right hon. Gentleman thinks that the unions would like consultations in this respect, we will, of course, have consultations with them too.

Surely the point is that the Six have gone ahead and settled the major points of their fishing policy at a time when Norway and Great Britain are negotiating for entry. Is the Minister aware of the seriousness of this matter? It may not be an important point in the negotiations generally but is very important when it comes to a vote being taken in this House on the Common Market?

Yes, I am well aware of the importance of this issue and of the very strong feelings aroused. I am equally aware that the Six went ahead with the common fisheries policy at a time when Norway and ourselves were seeking to join. I can assure the House and my hon. Friend that we made very strong representations to them at that time and suggested to them that it would be far better if they waited before they took such action until we were members of the Community. They have gone ahead and are now seeing how strong the feeling is.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what recent representations he has had from the fishing industry, in particular the British Trawlerowners Federation, regarding the impact of the European Economic Community fisheries policy upon their future activity, in the event of Her Majesty's Government joining the Common Market.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what representations he has had from commercial fishing interests and inshore fishermen about the effects of the new European Economic Community fishing policy on British fishing interests; what replies he has sent; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what communications he has had from the distant water and inshore sections of the fishing industry about the effect of adhering to the European Economic Community fisheries policy; and what reply he has sent.

I am in close contact with all sectors of the fishing industry in England and Wales. Some have made formal representations; some have not. But all have explained their various concerns, which I have assured them we shall take into account in the entry negotiations.

Will the Minister bear in mind when he answers my question that he is the Member of Parliament for a famous and important fishing port? Since formerly he has acted as an arch-dissembler of information with his answers in this House, why will not he be as blunt and as honest as I know that he can be and fight for our fishing industry, as his counterpart in the Norwegian Government is doing at the moment, with the Common Market?

The hon. Gentleman need have no fear. I shall fight for the interests of the country as well as those of my constituency and the fishing industry.

Would the Minister agree that it is essential for us to have a final fallback point in the negotiations about access to our waters? Can he say what in his view that final fall-back point should be in relation to the protection afforded to our inshore fishermen by the 12-mile limit?

The hon. Gentleman has little experience of negotiations if he imagines that I would disclose my fallback position in advance.

In spite of the objections from Norway and from this country to which my right hon. Friend has referred, the Six have reached agreement on access to each other's fishing grounds up to the beach, which could spell ruination to the inshore industry. Is he aware that this is one of the issues which may cause Members to vote against the Common Market when the time comes?

Yes, Sir, I am well aware of the feeling of individual Members of Parliament representing fishing constituencies on issues of this nature. That is why I gave what I thought were forthcoming answers to the earlier series of Questions.

Would my right hon. Friend assure us that he will not overlook the interests of the shellfish industry?

That is exactly the same question, and the answer is: yes, we will not overlook them.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied that the European Economic Community's existing arrangements will be adequate, in the circumstances of an enlarged Community, to ensure stability in the market for pigs and pigmeat; and if he will make a statement.

This is a matter which has been thoroughly discussed with the Community, which has accepted our views on the importance and characteristics of the bacon market and the need for keeping the situation under careful review, and has recognised the desirability of stability for pigmeat. In the circumstances, therefore, I do not consider further action is required at this stage.

Is the Minister aware that in Western Europe the pig population is expanding and that in the absence of production controls under the common agricultural policy, it is likely that we shall be joining the Common Market at the peak of the pig cycle without any safeguards for our own producers in the sense that flexible market arrangements will have been abolished by that time?

The matter is not quite so simple. The common agricultural policy for pig and pigmeat includes intervention arrangements. I think that these will help to create stability. We are not joining the Common Market tomorrow, and there will be a very long transitional period if and when we do.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what present functions of the Milk Marketing Board will have to be abolished if the United Kingdom enters the European Economic Community.

If the United Kingdom were a member of the European Economic Community, support for the milk producer would be given not through a guaranteed price but through the Community's system of intervention and threshold prices. The Milk Marketing Board would, therefore, cease to implement our present guarantee. I should expect the Board's major marketing functions on behalf of its members to continue.

Is it not a fact that the pooling arrangements for transport costs of milk producers in this country will be incompatible with the provisions of the Treaty of Rome relating to free competition, and that the abolition of those pooling arrangements for transport costs will hit at milk production in the remoter areas of the United Kingdom?

I do not think that that necessarily follows. The milk-producing organisations of the Community are at present free to send milk wherever they like to get the best return for members and to pay them as they wish.

If Britain were a member of the Community, would Continental, particularly Dutch, dairy fanners be able to supply the London liquid milk market or would the powers foreseen for the Milk Marketing Board prevent this eventuality?

This is a matter for negotiation.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the current price per pound of turkeys and chickens, respectively; and what was the price of such poultry per pound in December, 1969.

On 16th December, 1969, the average retail price per lb. of a 3 lb. frozen chicken was 3s. 3d. On 20th October, the latest date for which information is available, it was 3s. 5d. Information on turkey prices is not available.

Would the right hon. Gentleman care to estimate the expected price rise per lb. of turkeys and chickens prior to Christmas?

It is very dangerous to make estimates of that nature. There is a serious situation of fowl pest in the country, which will not help Christmas prices. Ample supplies will be available but at a slightly higher price than last year.

Is the Minister aware that in Dorset, and no doubt elsewhere, birds reared in hatcheries are now dying by the thousands following electricity cuts, and if the cuts go on they will die by the tens of thousands? Does the Minister know whether strikers and go-slowers accept responsibility for their cruelty and also for the increased food prices which certainly must follow?

I am aware of the serious position of hatcheries and other parts of the agriculture and food industry. The whole nation will be best served when the electricity workers go back to work.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what research is being financed by his Department into fisheries in the Indian Ocean.

None, Sir.

Would it not be wiser to spend a little money on research rather than spend £120 million on Indian Ocean bases?

That is a totally different question from the one on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he is taking to give greater official support to efforts to preserve hedgerows and to leave areas of land in a condition which will encourage the survival and preservation of wild life.

The importance of conservation is emphasised in many of the information and advisory activities of my Department and in the training of those responsible for them.

Will the hon. Gentleman agree that more urgency appears to be necessary in approaching this problem, particularly in view of the fact that many thousands of miles of hedgerow have been removed in recent years, after perhaps quite unnecessarily?

I deplore many instances of hedgerow removal. In fact, I believe that there is a case on an efficiency argument for pulling out some hedges, but I feel that it has been overdone. I am glad to be able to say that the peak has been passed.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when the price of bread was last increased and by how much; what was the length of time between that request for an increase in price and its application; and if he will make a statement on the present position.

Leading plant bakers informed me that they were increasing the price of all loaves by 1d. from 30th November. As for the remainder of the hon. Member's question, I would refer him to the reply I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton (Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop) on 2nd November.—[Vol. 805, c. 284.]

Has the right hon. Gentleman examined the way in which the Labour Government were able to take action to hold back increases in the price of bread for some months? Would he not now do something other than rely on competition, which hardly exists in the bakery trade?

There were seven increases in the six years in which the Labour Government were responsible for our affairs, including two increases in January and April this year. It is not perhaps without some importance, and is a commentary on the previous Government's activities, that within two months of the new Government having been appointed, the trade was back again for a third increase. It applied for an increase in price—

Where is your competition?

Order.

It has made it perfectly plain that the price it was after was a 2d. increase in August and got 1d., rounded down to less than 1d. when decimalisation comes in, in November.

What is the right hon Gentleman doing about it?

Has the right hon. Gentleman forgotten that his party gave clear assurance that prices would be held down and brought down? Is he aware that before the increases that were referred to under the Labour Government, I referred an application for increase to the National Board for Prices and Incomes? Could he say what scrutiny has taken place in his Department to satisfy himself that the recent increases were justified?

It is not my job to scrutinise, and I have no intention of becoming involved in scrutinies of that type. The fact is that on two occasions this year, in spite of reports by the National Board for Prices and Incomes, the price of bread went up under the previous Administration.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what advice is given by his Department to those engaged in agriculture as to the treatment of badgers.

Since badgers are not pests, I see no occasion for advising anybody about how to treat them.

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree that the badger is a useful rather than harmful animal, and would he publicise this view, making it clear that the only inconvenience the badger causes is to the fox hunters?

I would go a very long way with the hon. Gentleman. The badger does very little damage. It occasionally, but unusually, kills poultry, and it occasionally rolls among corn, but since I was brought up on "The Wind in the Willows" I have always been of the firm belief that generally the badger is a benevolent animal.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will seek powers to require the brewing industry to disclose the alcoholic content of its beers; and if he will make a statement.

The issue is not one of powers but whether such regulations would be in the public interest. This has not been established.

How much longer is the Minister going to be so tender towards his friends in the brewing industry?

For as long as they keep contributing to the Tory Party.

Could the hon. Gentleman say what other forms of food and drink are exempt from labelling requirements to tell people what is contained in them?

I should have thought that it was of great importance that labels put on commodities should be accurate, as some beers go on fermenting both in cask and in bottle long after they have been brewed, I would think that it is valueless to put this information on the bottle.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, in addition to technical problems, there are also psychological objections to the proposal?

All I am concerned about is the practicability of this suggestion.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what has been the effect of the autumn supplementary Price Review on the wholesale price of home-killed beef and lamb.

In general, the recent increases in guaranteed prices have not had any discernible effect on wholesale prices. Wholesale prices of home produced beef and lamb have fallen slightly since the beginning of October, which reflects the usual seasonal movement at this time of the year.

Does not the Minister agree that the guaranted price is a much better way of keeping low-price meat available to British housewives than an imposition, for the first time in British history, of a meat tax which the Government intend to impose upon the housewives' meat?

The hon. Gentleman has not done his homework, but there is nothing unusual about that. If the British farmer is to have a fair chance of expanding his production, he will have to have a greater amount of money from the market. There is no other answer, unless we are prepared to put up with the stagnation of British agriculture which we had under the previous Administration.

Can the Minister explain why, whilst the wholesale price of beef has gone down, the retail price has gone up? Is that the effect of competition?

No, Sir. Retail prices have been very steady over the last few weeks, and the position with regard to the retail price of meat is exactly the same now as it was under the previous Administration.

How would the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford (Mr. Wellbeloved) identify the Meat and Livestock Commission's levy on meat, introduced by right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite, if it is not a tax?

Apart from the levy of the Meat and Livestock Commission, there is no levy on meat at the moment. Therefore, there is no question of prices having risen as a result.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the highly unsatisfactory nature of those answers, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action he proposes to take to prevent cruelty in the transportation of calves to the Continent by sea and in their subsequent slaughter.

The Balfour assurances were designed to ensure adequate welfare standards for animals exported from this country for immediate slaughter. I am making available in the Library now copies of a statement which gives the result of inquiries made by my Department about a recent export of calves to Belgium, and which I will with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT. My right hon. Friend is considering whether any change in our existing policy is required.

Can my hon. Friend be a bit more explicit about the report that he is placing in the Library? Is he aware of evidence that there has been considerable flouting of the Balfour assurances recently in the export of calves to Belgium and that the whole country wishes the Government to take action to stop this very cruel trade?

That is precisely why the report is being circulated. It is of some length, and it was felt that it would be more to the convenience of the House if it was not given at the end of Questions in view of various other statements which are to be made. The answers for which my right hon. Friend asks are to be found in the report.

At what points is the welfare of these animals checked to see whether cruelty is taking place?

The animals go out of the control of the British Government once they are landed at the port of disembarkation on the other side. They are there checked by our own authorities.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he proposes to introduce regulations under the Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act governing the level of iron in calf-foods and prohibiting the use of blinkers and the practice of beak-trimming on domestic fowls.

We propose to introduce the iron regulation when the necessary scientific inquiries have been completed. We have no proposals for prohibiting blinkers or beak trimming.

As the recent report of the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee said that, from the ethical standpoint, regulations regarding both beak trimming and spectacles were very important, will my hon. Friend reconsider his decision?

The Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Committee advised the phasing out of blinkers. Their use is declining, and the State Veterinary Service survey states that no pain or distress occurs if they are properly applied. Beak trimming causes little trouble to birds. The method used is covered by regulations, and again the State Veterinary Service found no pain or distress.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement about his future policy on the top fruit industry.

Our present and future policy is to encourage the industry to maintain and improve its efficiency in the growing and marketing of fruit, and to strengthen its ability to withstand competition through the merits of its produce.

When does the Minister anticipate being in a position to make a statement about his future policy on grants to encourage grubbing up and to enable the British acreage to be so reduced that that which remains will be able to compete fairly, whether or not we enter Europe?

Before very long, Sir.

In view of the recent very unfortunate decision about apple import quotas for the first six months of 1971, will my hon. Friend say what can be done to prune the Board of Trade?

I understand that that is in the past, and that the Board of Trade has been exterminated, not pruned.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will review the activities of the Forestry Commission.

My right hon. Friend and his right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Secretary of State for Wales are jointly responsible for the activities of the Forestry Commission. They intend to give close attention to various aspects of forestry policy over the coming months, including in particular the return on the public money invested in forestry.

Can my right hon. Friend press the Leader of the House to find time for a proper debate on this subject, especially as we have less timber production than almost any other European country and the use of paper and paper products is rising continually?

There is an import-saving potential in forestry grown in this country. I will certainly draw the attention of my right hon. Friend to my hon. Friend's views.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his remarks may cause some disquiet, particularly in Scotland, where forestry provides an important source of employment in areas where other employment is difficult? Will he resist any suggestions from the Treasury that the investment return on capital employed should be increased?

Questions on forestry in Scotland should be directed to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Home Affairs and Agriculture, Scottish Office.

Does my hon. Friend agree that as we are more desperately and dangerously over-dependent on timber imports than any other country, there is every need to give the Forestry Commission and the private sector of forestry every encouragement to continue the steady expansion of afforestation?

With that I agree.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will now report on the results of the experiments with live vaccine for fowl pest; and if he will make a statement.

The field trial with live vaccine is progressing satisfactorily, but it is too early yet to draw worthwhile conclusions about its effectiveness.

Does my hon. Friend realise how urgent this problem is? A large number of those engaged in the fattening industry feel that the use of live vaccine is the only way for the future of the industry, which gives such a large amount of meat to this country. Will my hon. Friend be as quick as possible in his conclusions?

I entirely accept the concern and anxiety within the industry in the middle of this terrible scourge of fowl pest which is raging at the moment. We hope to have the conclusions of these tests in about 10 days.

In view of the continuing gravity of this epidemic, may I ask the hon. Gentleman and the Minister to consider the advisability of setting up an independent inquiry into its causes and effects and into the advisability of using live vaccine, because I understand that the use of live vaccine is an acceptance that the disease has become endemic in the country?

I am prepared to examine the right hon. Gentleman's idea and do anything which will help to ensure that we are not afflicted in this way again.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what further representations he has received from farmers concerning the abolition of British Standard Time; and what replies he has sent.

No further representations have been received since the decision so wisely taken by the House on 2nd December, but that decision has, of course, been generally welcomed by the farming community.

I had, of course, tabled this Question before I knew the date of the debate. Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that many hon. Members on both sides of the House regard it as necessary only for G.M.T. to run from mid-November until mid-February to meet the farmers' point of view? If my hon. Friend finds that this point has general acceptance among fanners, may I ask him to make his own representations to the Home Secretary?

I think that it is extremely unlikely that practically any point will find general acceptance among many farmers.

Will the hon. Gentleman press the Home Secretary to have the time changed back at, say, the New Year so that people will realise what they are missing next year?

I am afraid that for once I must strongly disagree with one who has been my faithful pair for many years.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what plans he has to increase the number of viable agricultural units, in view of the effect on existing agricultural units of present rates of estate duty liability.

We are reviewing the farm structure schemes to see whether we can give more effective help for the creation of viable units. This review will take account of all relevant factors, including any effects of estate duty.

In view of the entirely frivolous answer given to my last supplementary question, may I ask the Minister to answer this one seriously? Will the Minister bear in mind that, owing to the change in the value of money, death duties on farms have increased at such a rate that, while the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food wants to sell larger viable units, the Treasury is doing everything that it can to eliminate those that exist?

I certainly appreciate that there is a conflict here between encouraging amalgamation and carrying out a taxation policy which tends to mean fragmentation at the end. This matter is being discussed between my right hon. Friend the Minister and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Mr. Booth.

On a point of Order. Mr. Speaker, have I lost my Question No. 24?

I thought that it had been answered with another Question. I am sorry. Mr. Peter Mills.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what further discussions he has now had with the Tractor Manufacturers' Association with regard to tractor safety cabs; and if he will make a statement.

In the absence of any indication from the tractor manufacturers that they would be willing to allow buyers of new tractors a free choice between any approved make of safety cab or frame, I see no useful purpose in holding further discussions with them. They are well aware of my view and that of my right hon. Friend that this freedom of choice is in the best interests both of safety and of competition. As I said previously in reply to my hon. Friend, consideration is being given to amending the regulations concerned.—[Vol. 806, c. 1025–6.]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Is it not particularly unfortunate and regrettable that at this time of rising costs British agriculture should be penalised by some tractor manufacturers? Does my hon. Friend agree that the whole matter leaves a very unpleasant smell?

We must keep safety in the forefront of the argument. That, to my mind, is of great importance. I deplore practices which discourage farmers buying new tractors, thus thwarting our efforts to improve safety measures.

Whilst I accept absolutely the safety point, is this not another case of the Government's competition policy going wrong?

No, Sir; it is not, because there is a good deal of competition between makes.