asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the need to end the warrant sale system, he will call for an interim report from the Scottish Law Commission with a view to introducing legislation for the operation of a more satisfactory method of recovering debts.

The warrant sale system is only one, though important, aspect of the law of diligence. I believe that the best way to review it is within the context of the general review which the Commission already has in hand.

Has the Under-Secretary given earnest consideration to the fact that the unfortunate victims of warrant sales at times receive peanut prices for very valuable furniture and household equipment? Is he further aware that even a third party's goods have been confiscated under the present arrangement? In view of the urgency of the matter, will he expedite the report and introduce legislation to remove this iniquitous system?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's concern about the matter. The value realised for goods turns on the question whether the sale takes place in a person's home or in a sale room. This matter is entirely at the discretion of the sheriff. On the other point, I should be interested to receive any evidence which the hon. Gentleman can give me.

There are many gaps in this system. I came across a case recently. There is no check by the person placing the advertisement and carrying on the sale whether the facts are as they are stated. Meantime, costs mount against quite innocent people. Is it not time for a realistic look at this matter once again?

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's concern. If he has examples where the procedures are not working, I shall be interested to hear them. We must remember that the procedures are merely one aspect of the whole of the law of diligence and that many other aspects are involved. If there are any specific matters of procedure which can be improved in that way, I am prepared to look at them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish a White Paper on the general prospects for the Scottish economy for the next year.

The Scottish Economic Bulletin published by my Department provides a review of the economic situation in Scotland, and its next issue is due in the near future.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is time for him to issue a full statement on Government policy to deal with the deep crisis in which we find ourselves? Is he aware of the falling and desperate level of investment in manufacturing industry in Scotland and of the conclusions which have been reached by bodies such as the National Westminster Bank Quarterly Review that his changes in development policy are causing some of the fall in investment in manufacturing industry? Would it not be a great fillip to the Scottish economy and to those who propose to invest in it if the Government would set a target and set out their plan in black and white in a White Paper and thereby help to generate confidence?

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman about the effect of our measures. He suggested a White Paper. However, the 1966 White Paper on the Scottish Economy, published by the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), was an unfortunate example and a warning to all concerned because its forecasts proved to be wrong within a matter of months.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that such a White Paper might help to reduce the serious concern at present about the prospects of the Scottish steel industry? Will he again confirm that he will use his influence to further the proposed major development of steel in the West of Scotland?

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's question is, Yes. The answer to the first part is that I have seen reports in the Scottish Press about what appear to be internal matters within the B.S.C.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that what he said about the White Paper published in 1966 is absolute nonsense and is in any case quite unrelated to this question? While he is doing nothing, institutions such as the British Steel Corporation are making plans which are creating considerable alarm in Scotland about future prospects. Would he do something about this?

Yes, and I am.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what new proposals he has received from outside organisations on ways of reducing unemployment, in particular following the Scottish Trades Union Congress-sponsored Assembly in Edinburgh on 14th February.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement arising out of the conclusions conveyed to him by the Scottish Assembly organised by the Scottish Trade Union Congress on 14th February.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received on matters for which he is responsible arising from the Scottish Assembly held in Edinburgh on 14th February.

I have as yet received no communication arising from the deliberations of the Scottish Trades Union Congress's Assembly on Unemployment, but an observer attended on behalf of the Department of Employment, and of the Scottish Office.

Meanwhile, what have been the representations which the right hon. Gentleman just said he had made to the British Steel Corporation, particularly only in view of the estimate in this morning's papers that 18,000 jobs are to be lost in the Scottish steel industry between now and 1975? What representations did he make to the British Steel Corporation before that leak was allowed to get into the Press? What progress has been made in the devolution of Government offices to Scotland and other development areas?

The hon. Member refers to a report—I have seen several reports—in the Press today, concerning some document, apparently an internal document of the British Steel Corporation, which, according to the reports, was written in 1968. I know nothing of that document and cannot comment upon it. The question of the best Government machinery for regional development measures is continually under review, and changes will be made if they are thought to be more effective than the present.

Would the right hon. Gentleman accept that the fact that he has had no representations from the S.T.U.C. in relation to what happened on 14th February in Edinburgh reflects the feeling in Scotland that it is no good appealing to this Government because they are insensitive to the economic and employment needs of Scotland? Will he not realise that this reflects a very serious situation indeed and that, instead of standing back and talking about internal documents, he should get involved in the situation and try to do something for a change to solve the unemployment problem in Scotland?

I fear that the hon. Member is entirely wrong. It was arranged before the conference that a Government observer should be there and I informed the Secretary-General that I was exceedingly interested in what happened at the conference. He knew that I was getting a report and I understand that he has made an approach to the Prime Minister as the head of the whole Government.

Is it not the case that the document mentioned is a confidential document of the previous Government and that any questions about it should be referred to hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite?

My hon. Friend must be referring to this document of the B.S.C. which is reported in the Press. As it is apparently dated 1968, the last Government should know more about it than we do.

Presumably the Secretary of State is aware that the S.T.U.C. Assembly was a remarkably successful occasion in the views put forward. Would he say something about the statements which have been appearing in the Press over the last few days about the forthcoming creation of Government office jobs in Scotland and their dispersal in different parts of Scotland?

On the last point, the hon. Member knows, I think, that a study is being made of the whole question of dispersal of offices on a major scale. He also knows that the Forestry Commission is coming to Edinburgh and that I was a member of the Government concerned with the successful move of the Post Office Savings Bank to Glasgow. This is something about which I am very much concerned. I agree that the reports that I have received show that the S.T.U.C. Assembly was successful—particularly because of the contributions made by some of my hon. Friends.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many organisations he has met in the last six months concerning unemployment.

I have met nine organisations and my hon. Friend has had eight similar meetings in the last six months.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that after the figures are produced tomorrow other representations will be made to him? Is he aware, for instance, that the construction industry is working at only two-thirds capacity? Does not he consider that trying to meet our need for houses and hospitals could become a valuable source of employment? Some Lanarkshire hon. Members have received representations about rumours of proposed steel industry closures. Will the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that he will try to find out from the British Steel Corporation whether those rumours are true? The matter is causing a great deal of consternation not only in Lanarkshire but throughout Scotland.

I am always ready to see deputations and delegations whenever I can about unemployment, which is of great concern to me and many others. Things are looking better in the construction industry in Scotland, particularly because of the large increase in housing approvals and starts in the public sector and increased activity in the private sector, which have already been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary. I have already dealt with the British Steel Corporation in answer to previous Questions.

Will the right hon. Gentle man tell us the organisations he has refused to see, apart from Kilmarnock Town Council? Does his last statement mean that we shall see a drop in the unemployment figures for Scotland tomorrow?

Tomorrow's figures will come out tomorrow. The answer to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's question is, "Very few".

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many letters he has received in the past month on Scottish unemployment; and what replies he has sent.

In the past month I have received two letters solely concerned with unemployment in Scotland, while several other letters have referred to it. Where appropriate my replies have referred to the major measures being taken, including the special public works programmes, a summary of which I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In answer to an earlier Question on Scottish unemployment, the Secretary of State for Scotland said that tomorrow's unemployment figures will come out tomorrow. Will it be a better tomorrow?

The hon. Gentleman knows that he must wait for those figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the meeting between his Department and Scottish local authorities regarding the exploitation of North Sea oil.

On 14th February I had a meeting with the planning and development authorities principally affected with the aim of identifying and promoting measures to bring the maximum of benefits to Scotland from North Sea oil developments. It was agreed to constitute the meeting as a standing conference which will meet again later this year, under my chairmanship. To back up the standing conference, my right hon. Friend's Department are providing a permanent point of contact to which all concerned with the development of North Sea oil can refer for information or advice.

Would the hon. Gentleman accept that that is a very interesting answer? I am grateful that he is at last taking some initiative to ensure that Scotland gets the maximum possible benefit from North Sea oil. Did this meeting take place without any discussion document prepared by the Department being submitted? Is it the Government's intention to prepare some discussion document, for this House in particular, so that we may know the Government's views on exploiting this very important natural resource?

There was not a discussion document for this meeting. The main information at the meeting was a fascinatingly interesting description of the possibilities for exploiting North Sea oil given by the representatives of four major oil companies. All the delegates who took part in the conference found that what they said was most interesting, useful and revealing.

Would my hon. Friend confirm that the oil companies are generally very pleased with the reaction and the help that they have received from the local authorities in the area, and that N.E.S.D.A. in particular has been earning golden opinions, on which I congratulate it? As the present development appears to be very piecemeal, has my hon. Friend formed any view about whether it is wholly desirable to let it continue in that fashion?

I warmly support what my hon. Friend said about N.E.S.D.A., whose rôle in this has been of tremendous help to all concerned. As for the exploitation side, it is significant that, even before a single barrel of oil has been brought ashore commercially from any of these finds, already over 1,000 people in Aberdeen have jobs through the exploitation of this resource. The oil companies all say that their experience is that the people of the North East are extremely good and very quick to respond to their needs.

Did the Government promise finance to the local and public authorities for works in connection with this oil? If so, is this to be extra finance, covering such things as housing, as well as harbour and connected works? What will the rate be? Will it be a 100 per cent. grant? If the hon. Gentleman cannot answer these questions now, since they are very important for the public authorities doing the planning, would he say when the financial proposals might be available to the House?

What I said to the conference was that the Government recognised that there may well be change in priority in the provision of infrastructure to respond to the needs for North Sea oil. I assured them that the Government knew this and were reappraising the priorities to make sure that they accord with the needs.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement on his proposals for ensuring that the exploitation of North Sea oil makes the maximum contribution to the Scottish economy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what survey he has made of the logistics required for further exploration and exploitation of the oil fields in the North Sea; and if he will make a statement.

The international oil industry is finding that it will have to apply its most advanced technology to tap this oil because of the difficult conditions, including depths of water. My aim is that as much of the work as possible on platforms, rigs, equipment, services and other related activity should be in Scotland. Already important installations and sites in Scotland are being planned and progress is fast, although the oil is unlikely to start flowing for at least two years.

Do the Government intend to publish a coherent and flexible plan for the exploitation of North Sea oil? In the meantime, would the Secretary of State investigate the possibility of moving the headquarters of the petroleum division of the Department of Trade and Industry to Edinburgh, as such a move would not only provide 90 useful jobs but would also have an important beneficial effect on the oil industry in Scotland?

Only one major company has announced its plans for the first phase. The companies themselves are still at the exploration stages, and most of them have not yet been able to put forward plans, so the Government are not yet in a position to come in and co-ordinate. On the question of removing the headquarters of the D.T.I. petroleum division, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry will take note of that suggestion.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that communications will be absolutely essential for the rapid development of the oil industry in the North-East? What particular consideration is he giving to a motorway, which will be necessary not only to Aberdeen but to the north of Aberdeen as well?

All infrastructure, which includes roads, is being considered, with the developing North-East oil industry being fully taken into account.

Would the right hon. Gentleman draw the attention of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to the fact that Aberdeen is an eminently suitable place to which to transfer the petroleum division of the D.T.I., instead of many other places? On infrastructure, would the right hon. Gentleman indicate when Aberdeen Harbour Board is likely to get authority to proceed to improve and develop port facilities?

A number of very suitable places along the east coast commend themselves for headquarters of different kinds. I am glad to note that some of the leading companies have made their headquarters in Dundee and Aberdeen, among other places. On the point of the hon. Gentleman's question about infrastructure, that is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister for Transport Industries, and I shall ensure that he is aware of the hon. Gentleman's concern.

May I, as a Sassenach, ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State whether he realises that this major discovery of oil under the North Sea, not far off the coast of Scotland is the greatest bit of luck that Scotland has had this century? Having regard to the outcome of the miners' strike and the urgent need for alternative sources of indigenous fuel on a big scale, the utmost expedition is urged upon him by all Sassenachs to ensure development as rapidly as possible.

Recognising my hon. Friend as a Sassenach who has a great interest in Scotland, I assure him that we regard this not only as a piece of great good fortune for Scotland but also as opening opportunities which we in Scotland must grasp.

While we are all most anxious to do what the right hon. Gentleman has indicated and to see the exploitation of this oil, what measures have been taken to safeguard the interests of the fishing industry if, perchance, there should be bursts or breakages in the oil pipes and a great deal of contamination of the sea?

I am glad to say that the companies with whom I have been in touch so far are formulating plans and taking immense trouble to avoid leakages of oil. The fishing industry has expressed some apprehensions, but, being somewhat familiar with both industries, I see no reason why, if they keep in close touch with each other, their operations cannot carry on without interference.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the best ways of helping Scottish industries would be for the oil that comes ashore in Scotland to be made available to Scottish industries at a cheaper rate than elsewhere?

That is a very interesting suggestion, and I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will take note of it. As for refining the oil, B.P. has already undertaken an expansion of its refinery at Grangemouth.

While we are glad to see that infrastructure needs are being met, will the Secretary of State assure us that they are being met by additional grants rather than by changes in the priorities, as may have been understood by what was said earlier by the Under-Secretary, that additional monies are to be made available in advance and that direct benefits will be taken up later? Has the right hon. Gentleman had any meetings with the Minister more directly responsible for this matter, and the Treasury, to ensure that direct financial benefit will flow into Scotland as a result?

It is certainly the Government's intention, and that of Ministers concerned, that there should be Government assistance at the early stages when it is most required. As the right hon. Gentleman will know, I am attending, on Friday, a conference at Aviemore on the whole question of the North Sea oil industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many children were taking school meals on the last date for which figures are available; and what was the figure 12 months earlier.

The figures are, 350,399 in September, 1971, and 374,995 a year earlier.

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that this is a shocking state of affairs? Is he aware that, in some borderline cases, children who are not entitled to free meals are at the same time being denied free milk? Would he not agree that the Government have a case to answer and that they are doing a tremendous damage to the children of this country?

No, I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's comments. The drop has been only 4 per cent. over the 12 months I mentioned. With the greatly improved arrangements, the increase in free meals has been very substantial.

Could the hon. Gentleman translate that 4 per cent. into numbers, which are very important?

I gave the numbers in my original answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will estimate the number of teachers at present in service who will be denied full pension because of the fact that their university course was interrupted by war service during 1939–45.

No records are kept on which to base such an estimate.

The hon. Gentleman must know that the numbers are very small indeed. Does he not realise that most of these teachers have given loyal service to the Scottish education system? In the present review of the Scottish teachers' superannuation scheme, will he guarantee to look at the problem and to clear up this anomalous situation once and for all?

I certainly join the hon. Member in paying tribute to all Service men and women who served their country in the last war. Under the Superannuation Act, 1939, their pension rights were fully safeguarded. I agree that the working party should look at this, and I understand that it is doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received about the possible effect of value-added tax on agricultural production in Scotland.

The Scottish Landowners' Federation has represented that food, food prcducts and agricultural rents should be zero-rated rather than exempted.

Does my hon. Friend agree that since very large increases in the basic price of food are bound to take place as a result of our joining the Common Market, the incidence of V.A.T. should be kept to the minimum in those cases which affect agriculture—such as repairs, renewals, leases and sales?

The Chancellor announced in his Budget speech last year that food, except perhaps those items which are subject to purchase tax, would be relieved of V.A.T. The Chancellor will shortly be making a statement about this.

In the particular circumstances prevailing, would not the Minister press for a zero rate?

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has received from local authorities, as a result of his scheme, announced on 7th February to improve the urban environment.

Local authorities received details of this scheme from the Scottish Development Department only some two weeks ago, and it is as yet a little early for them to have completed individual submissions.

What time scale does the Department have in mind?

I hope that within the next week or two the schemes will begin coming in from local authorities. As for completion of the work, we are very anxious that it is completed by the middle of 1973.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is able to estimate the effect of present winter conditions on the Scottish house-building programme in 1972; and if he will make a statement.

Weather conditions so far this winter have generally allowed good progress to be made.

As the Minister has just demonstrated that he has a capability for assessing climatic effects on the Scottish house-building programme, is not he even more able to assess the effect of Government policies on Scottish house building? Would he come clean on a long-standing question: will the Tory Government build more or fewer houses than the Labour Government built in Scotland?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that I am able to make some calculations about the effects of Government policies on the house-building programme in Scotland. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be as delighted as I am to know that, on the latest figures that I have, starts in January, 1972, are about 55 per cent. up on the starts for January, 1971. That is not a bad beginning to the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many local authorities have acted to raise rents in advance of the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Bill becoming law.

This information is not yet available.

When the information does become available, the Under-Secretary will find the expected result, that very few local authorities in Scotland have applied the provisions of the Bill in advance. Does this not show that the Bill is extremely unwelcome in Scotland? Will he, therefore, withdraw it as from now?

There has been no question of applying the provisions of the Bill in advance. What we have done is to undertake, in the course of the introduction of the Act, that local authorities who increase their rents in the interim will get credit for having done so when we introduce the Act. But there is no question of anticipating the will of Parliament in introducing the Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland from what organisations he has had representations regarding Scottish licensing laws and their harmonisation with the opening hours in the European Community; and if he will make a statement.

The Clayson Committee on the licensing laws has received evidence from one or two bodies suggesting that licensing arrangements on the Continent are relevant to the Committee's examination of permitted hours. Two letters from private individuals have suggested harmonisation.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Would he take note that in spite of the rave reviews we have been getting from the Government benches because rationalisation of hours is now on the agenda, on the evidence before the Clayson Committee, he should reject the claim by the E.I.S. that we can go in for a family boutique style of drinking in Scotland? Would he resist these blandishments and pay attention to the recommendations of the Scottish Health Education Department that the effects of social drinking are a menace in Scotland? I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not pay too much attention to the trade in considering an extension of hours.

These are matters for the Clayson Committee and I have no doubt it will take into account what the hon. Member said. I certainly note that he does not want a Café Continental in Scotstoun.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if it is his intention to introduce legislation based on the recommendations in the White Paper, Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries in Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

Yes. But I have nothing to add at this stage to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeenshire, East (Mr. Wolrige-Gordon) and to the hon. Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell), on 1st December, 1971.—[Vol. 827, c. 434–5.]

Does the Minister appreciate that fishing is the greatest participation sport in Scotland?

I thought it was drinking.

I note what my hon. Friend the Member for Scotstoun (Mr. Small) said just now about drinking. I hope that when the Minister considers legislation he will bear in mind the effect this may have on the rod fisherman in Scotland who is very worried about some of the recommendations in the White Paper.

Both sports involve liquid. I can certainly assure the hon. Member for Dunbartonshire, West (Mr. Ian Campbell) that one of the purposes of the White Paper is to make more fishing available to anglers in Scotland and it is very encouraging so far, in the consultations we have had with the angling interests in Scotland, that, apart from certain specific criticism, there has been a general welcome for what is proposed.

Will my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary make sure that adequate time is granted to the various interests before legislation is prepared?

We have already had consultations with most of the representatives of the fishing industry and angling interests who are affected. We hope to complete these consultations fairly soon and will take fully into account everything that is said.

In the meantime, what is the Government's thinking on the stocking of poor waters?

This matter is covered in the report. Giving more protection is one of the matters on which legislation will be needed. This is one of the most important ways of making more fishing available for anglers in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the report of the committee investigating penalties for homicide; and if he will make a statement.

The Emslie Committee is expected to report before the end of this year.

The question has been given renewed urgency as murder convictions in 1971 appear to be an all-time high. Will this report be published?

This question is always urgent, although very often I think we would do well to attract even more attention to the problems of crimes of violence generally rather than specifically to those of murder. Certainly, I will bear in mind what my hon. Friend said about publication because obviously this is the kind of report which will be made public.

Will the Under-Secretary undertake not to rush into a decision about this matter and bear in mind that he will receive the support of many responsible hon. Members on this side of the House in resisting attempts by his hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) to make cheap political capital out of a serious matter?

It is unfair to say that my hon. Friend is trying to make cheap political capital. He is showing genuine concern about a topic which wor ries many responsible members of the public and he is right to bring it before the House. But I agree that we cannot act until we know what is in the report and we shall consider it soberly and fully when the time comes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the total amount paid out in merit awards to hospital consultants in Scotland in 1971; how much was the maximum award; and how many consultants received this amount.

Specific information is not yet available, but it is estimated that about £1,320,000 will be paid out in merit awards to hospital consultants in Scotland in the financial year 1971–72. Sixteen consultants received the maximum award of £6,840.

That is an estimated increase of £109,000 over the £1,211,000 that was paid out in 1970. Is the Minister aware of the great dissatisfaction among many consultants at the arbitrary method of disbursing this huge sum of pin money to the blue-eyed boys in the Scottish teaching hospitals? Will he do something to remove the cloak of secrecy which surrounds the payment of about £6,500 in awards to 16 consultants in Scotland? Will he consider giving the money either to the nurses or to satisfying the urgent needs of hospitals in Scotland?

That was a whole series of supplementaries from the hon. Gentleman. The awards are distributed on recommendation of an advisory committee of very distinguished consultants, and this followed the recommendations of the Spens Committee and the Royal Commission many years ago. The reason for not making the information public was set out in the Royal Commission's Report and was unanimously supported then.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received regarding the employment prospects of National Health Service employees following reorganisation of the service.

Many comments on our White Paper (Cmnd. 4734) were to the effect that the employment prospects and other legitimate interests of National Health Service staff should be safeguarded following reorganisation. The Government fully share this view and the Bill at present being considered in another place contains provisions designed to safeguard these interests.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is his estimate of the number of health centres there will be in Scotland in 1980.

About 200.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many health centres are likely to be completed in 1972 in Scotland.

Twelve.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that figure. How much extra finance will be made available in the next year from the emergency works programme for this desirable social objective?

I thank my hon. Friend for his percipience and I am glad to say that we have been able to make additional finance of about £400,000 available for health centres through the additional public works programme in the period up to 31st March, 1973.

Is the Secretary of State sure that all the planning difficulties, quite apart from the financial difficulties, the arrangements with the doctors and social workers who will be using the health centres and so on have all been smoothed out? What response has he had from the dental profession about their taking up places in the health centres? I believe that as yet none is operating within a health centre.

I am glad to say that in places where conditions are suitable the different medical services are coming together to make this service work. The dentists do not seem to find this so effective from their point of view. I am glad to have been present at the opening recently of two of these centres and to have seen how they are welcomed by the professions and the people they serve.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will introduce legislation to extend the Caravan Sites Act, 1968, to include Scotland.

I have no evidence that this is necessary: if the hon. Gentleman has such evidence I should be grateful if he would send it to me.

Is the Minister aware that hundreds, if not thousands of families have their homes now on wheels, living on caravan sites? These people are entitled to the same protection and security of tenure as people who live in permanent houses.

I am aware that many people live on caravan sites, regarding them as more or less permanent homes, at least for long periods. But we have received no evidence that there is any widespread problem of harassment or any signs of other problems in caravan sites in Scotland. In 1968 when the English Act was passed, local authority associations were consulted in Scotland and, except for the District Councils Association, they saw no need for legislation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list the type of minor projects of environmental improvement he has in mind on which local authorities might spend the additional £1 million on work to be completed by the end of June, 1973; and what estimate he has made of the additional jobs which such work might provide.

Examples are clearing up slum and empty sites, disused allotments, rivers and canals, cleaning and painting buildings, and planting trees.

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that this is just fiddling with what is a major scandal in Scotland? We shall see the extent of the unemployment in the figures which will come out tomorrow. Will the Under-Secretary consider publishing in the OFFICIAL REPORT such responses as he has had to date indicating how seriously they take this suggestion?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, this is only a tiny part of the massive aid this Government have put in to help to alleviate unemployment. The total figure amounts to about £60 million or £70 million, and I can assure the hon. Member that the Secretary of State will be watching very carefully to make sure that local authorities make the maximum use of this additional money.

Does the hon. Gentleman's answer not make rather silly the arbitrary reduction the Minister made in the rate support grant? For those two years, he took away £3½million and he is now giving back £1 million.

The matter must be seen in the general context of the massive amounts of money made available. They are greater than was requested by any of the many bodies which have asked my right hon. Friend to help.

Will my hon. Friend also put in the OFFICIAL REPORT the long list of the massive help which has been given to restore growth to the Scottish economy, and will he do so in particular to assist the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) in this welcome broadening of his interests?

My hon. Friend's last suggestion is a very desirable aim. The information will be published in the OFFICIAL REPORT today.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the investment programmes for the Scottish Electricity Boards, in the light of the Government initiatives to accelerate spending in the public sector.

Investment by both Boards has been accelerated to provide more employment. For 1972–73 the approved programmes amount to £67·4 million for the South Board and £39 million for the North Board; and for 1973–74 the provisionally approved figures are £51·1 million and £42·5 million respectively.

I am grateful for the figures and note the general trend. Can the Minister assure us that the supply of electricity will be in harmony with the demand for it, in view of the industrial expansion we need? Can he give us a specific answer—I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Robert Hughes) has a Question down about this—on the possibilities of accelerating the expansion of the nuclear power station at Stake Ness?

The joint generating studies of the two Scottish Boards take into account all the expected needs of the Scottish economy. I am confident that it will be possible to meet them, within these investment programmes. The new station in the North of Scotland cannot be brought forward any further until a definite decision is made on what type of station is most suitable. The Government are pressing on as quickly as they can with this most important and difficult study.

Bearing in mind the large increase in coal-fired power stations arranged by the last Conservative Government, what review is my hon. Friend now carrying out, in view of the settlement of the miners' strike, on the use of coal for generating electricity?

The question of the type of fuel best suited to maintain a balance in our power supplies in Scotland is one we keep under review the whole time. We shall continue the review in the general interests of seeing that there is a proper balance of the fuel supplies suitable to electricity boards and to the public. The supply situation looks a little more optimistic now. My hon. Friend the Minister for Industry is shortly to make a statement giving the latest position.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the global sum necessary for the provision of the iron ore terminal at Hunterston, in Ayrshire.

This is a matter for the British Steel Corporation, which has announced the cost as £26 million.

Surely the right hon. Gentleman must realise that if the Hunterston ore terminal is to go ahead the money must be supplied by the Government, directly or indirectly, to the British Steel Corporation and the Clyde Port Authority. Will he be honest with the House and give us an assurance today that the Government will provide the necessary finance for the terminal to give the necessary boost to the Scottish economy?

I have given the hon. Gentleman the estimate for which he asked. The project formed part of the British Steel Corporation's capital investment programme, for which the Government make loans available in the normal way. The Clyde Port Authority has not so far made an application to the Department of the Environment for approval for loan assistance for its share of the project.

Can my right hon. Friend say what will be the extent of the terminal and the connected installations? Will he see that everything possible is done to preserve the amenities of the area?

I cannot in a short reply tell my hon. Friend the extent of the new installation, but I can assure him that it is my intention, as the Minister responsible for the environment in Scotland, to do all I can to protect the environment, while encouraging desirable industrial development.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what percentage of cattle hides is represented by those with open warble holes which have been presented for processing in Scotland in each of the months from April to July in the last five years.

Warble infestation is not a notifiable disease. I understand however that in the last five years the percentage of hides with open warble holes has ranged from 0·63 per cent. in 1968 to 2·48 per cent. in 1971.

Does not my hon. Friend agree, in the light of scientific knowledge which is available to control the warble fly, that it is very disappointing that the hide industry is being penalised because the farmers are not actively employed in killing the warbles when they should do so?

As long as it is the farmers and not the Government who are being castigated for not killing the warble! My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the matter, because it is very much to the farmers' own financial advantage to take the precautions where they are needed. I congratulate him on raising the question in this way in the House today.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had from hospital boards and other organisations regarding the shortage of trained nurses.

None, Sir.

That answer indicates as do all the answers today, that no one writes to the Scottish Department about anything now. Does he recognise that the shortage of trained nurses is a serious problem in Scotland? An 8 per cent. pay increase was announced yesterday, the terms of which I have not had time to study because of our sitting in Committee until six o'clock this morning on the Housing (Financial Provisions) Scotland Bill. Will the hon. Gentleman undertake that the 8 per cent. will not be taken from the nurses in the form of increased charges for hostel accommodation and so on?

The shortage the hon. Gentleman talks about is not a fact. There may, exceptionally, be a shortage in certain hospitals, but we are still going through the transitional period for the new working week. In many hospitals additional staff have been engaged and other arrangements have been made to introduce the shorter working week. There may remain some hospitals where there is a shortage, but I ask the hon. Gentleman to realise that there has been a very significant increase in the total nursing staff in the past two years, from 40,106 in 1969 to 44,622 now.

Can the Minister answer my hon. Friend's second point? Will he assure the House that the increase will not mean that nurses will have much more taken from them for board and lodging and so on?

Like the hon. Gentleman, I was in the Committee until six o'clock, and I have not had time to study the details of the pay agreement, but I will look into the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made in eliminating part-time education in Scottish secondary schools; and if he will make a statement.

In the last week of January there was part-time education in one school only where the number of pupils who lost two or more hours of instruction was 87. This figure is to be compared with 4,256 in January, 1971.

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is splendid news, observing that part-time education has been the scourge of Scottish education for many years? Will this splendid situation be maintained?

Yes, this situation will be maintained. I should like to pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the part which he played in laying the plan.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much additional expenditure, capital and current, he intends to authorise for the South-East Regional Hospital Board, for the financial year 1972–73; and whether this will take into account an accelerated provision of additional geriatric and psycho-geriatric beds in Fife.

In terms of the White Paper on Public Expenditure, Cmnd. 4829 of November, 1971, my right hon. Friend expects to make an additional £11 million at 1971 prices available to the National Health Service in Scotland compared with 1971–72, but I cannot give particulars of the allocations which he intends to authorise for each regional hospital board until the 1972–73 estimates are approved by Parliament.

Is the Minister aware that in Fife there are only 10 such beds per 1,000 of the population over the age of 65 compared with 15 beds per 1,000 in other areas of Scotland? Therefore can he say that the building of the geriatric hospitals in Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes will be brought forward to the 1972–73 period?

I cannot give any assurance for the 1972–73 period, but I will bear in mind the points which the hon. Gentleman made. I appreciate, too, that in his area of Fife, at Kirkcaldy, provision is required.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service by how many persons the strength of the Civil Service diminished from 1st July, 1970, to 31st December, 1971.

As I told my hon. Friend on 1st December we have made reductions in staff but these have been counterbalanced by increases required mainly to meet growth in population, more widespread social benefit payments, higher requirements for prison personnel and arrears of work in the Inland Revenue.

Has my hon. Friend perceived that I have frequently had occasion to rebuke him for his lethargy and indifference in honouring election pledges, which were twofold: first, to indulge in open government, whereas all bureaucrats are introverted; and, secondly, to reduce the size and scope of the bureaucracy, whereas my hon. Friend continuously encourages the expansion of the bureaucracy? Is there any danger that we shall see some results shortly?

I certainly perceive my hon. Friend's constant interest in this question. If there are certain areas where he believes there should be fewer staff, and if he is against the increases which I have mentioned, I am sure that his views on particular activities which could be cut will be very welcome indeed, and he should put them forward.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell us whether possible entry into Europe has in any way inhibited the retention of staff who will be required to meet the consequences of such entry, and whether a proper estimate has been made of the staff required to introduce the value-added tax?

That is rather a different question, but if I get the hon. Gentleman's meaning aright the answer is that it has not inhibited it.

While appreciating that the numbers have fallen and the welcome reasons in certain sections for that, may I ask my hon. Friend to publish a list of the Departments in which the numbers have fallen since 1st July, 1970?

It has already been published.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what consultations prompted his recommendation that salaries of certain civil servants should be increased by 7½ per cent. as announced in February, 1972.

The Central Pay Increase for certain civil servants announced on 3rd February, 1972, was a settlement arrived at after negotiations conducted within the normal Whitley Council framework.

While I am always the first to admit that competent and proficient people should be adequately and suitably rewarded, may I ask my hon. Friend to bear in mind that 7½ per cent. compound interest per annum is a deliberate provocation to miners, to railwaymen, to engineers and to other large bodies of organised workers to seek at least commensurate advances and that all this is highly damaging to the community?

I am glad that my hon. Friend is at least prepared to recognise the excellent worth of the work done by our public servants.

Very few.

The increase is very much in line with current and recent settlements. Indeed, the only exception is the highly exceptional increase for the miners.

Will the Minister not pay too much attention to his hon. Friend the Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) and recognise that he is something of a special case?

A court case.

I do not approach this in a roundabout fashion. Will the Parliamentary Secretary further recognise that the need for this rise is very much underlined by the quite large numbers of civil servants who are at present having to apply for family income supplement?

My hon. Friend the Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) is not easy to ignore. I agree with the hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. John D. Grant) that this increase was arrived at in negotiations in the normal framework. It fairly reflects the situation and is not out of line with recent settlements outside the Civil Service.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what code of conduct governs those civil servants with access to, or involved in, computer projects in Government Departments.

Civil servants concerned with computer projects are subject to the same general rules about conduct as those laid down for other civil servants. In addition, there are stringent statutory provisions protecting particular classes of information; for example, under the Statistics of Trade Act, 1947. The detailed application of these rules is the responsibility of individual Departments.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that none of those rules and regulations to which he has referred applies specifically to computerised installations? Is he also aware that the Prime Minister has been sitting on that Front Bench for the past year telling me that there is nothing to worry about concerning the confidentiality of Government information? Bearing in mind the large numbers of Government Departments which are now bringing computers into use, is it not about time that we had a code of conduct specifically covering this kind of installation?

I am aware of the hon. Gentleman's great interest in this issue. He may like to know that the survey on the use of Government computers to record personal details is very near completion and that the Government will then consider whether further action should be taken to safeguard personal details. In this consideration we shall take account of the recommendations to be made by the Younger Committee on Privacy.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware, however, that after 1st January, 1973, his remarks may not be valid at all? The only secrets protected by the European Communities Bill are those relating to atomic energy. Yet the Bill provides that all information in the possession of the Government can be given to institutions of the Community and contains no provision for protecting anything other than that which I have mentioned.

I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's assertions on that matter. This is obviously a much wider question. If he wants to ask me about it and puts down a Question, I will do my best to answer it.