asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many trained pilots now serve in the Royal Air Force and what was the figure in 1972.

4,603 on 1st October 1975. On the corresponding date in 1972, the number was 5,243.

Is the Minister aware that some of these RAF pilots leaving the Service and wanting to become civil pilots find a great number of obstacles in their way, and that it can cost an experienced RAF VCIO pilot more than £1,500 to get his air transport pilot's licence? Cannot the RAF and the Civil Aviation Authority get together to reduce these stacles by making compatible their instrument rating schemes?

I have much sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman says. This is a human problem, which involves considerable personal expense. In as much as what he proposes has not yet been done, I give him an undertaking that it will be looked into.

Is it not a great waste of public money that the State should be giving basic training and ongoing training to RAF pilots while at the same time giving similar training to civil pilots for the State airline? Will the Minister bring pressure to bear on the Chairman of British Airways to take a higher proportion of their pilot intake from the Services?

Having once had responsibility at the other end of the line, so to speak, I know that this is a much more complicated matter than the hon. Gentleman suggests. I am sympathetic towards the problem, in that it is a human one, but questions of training, age and experience all come into it. As the hon. Gentleman knows, at the present time there are very severe pressures, due to the falling off in the growth of demand for civil aviation.