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Clause 3

Volume 981: debated on Tuesday 25 March 1980

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Grants And Loans From The Fund

Lords amendment: No. 4, in page 2, line 33, leave out second "or".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

The purpose and effect of the amendment is to extend the range of interest over land in respect of which the trustees may give assistance to rights which it would be desirable to acquire for the benefit of outstanding land such as shooting rights near a bird sanctuary. These amendments bring within the scope of the fund's assistance a range of rights associated or connected with land which, while outstanding, might or might not be the subject of assistance from this fund. Examples are shooting rights and rights of way connecting pieces of land. This was a rather illusive concept, but I think that the clause pins it down.

It would be churlish of me to do other than thank the Minister for the attitude that he has taken on this matter. It was discussed at considerable length in Committee. It was a point of view put forward strongly by both the English National Trust and the Scottish National Trust. We certainly welcome the amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords amendments Nos. 5 to 8 agreed to.

Lords amendment: No. 9, in page 3, line 5, leave out "or".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

It may be for the convenience of the House to discuss with this amendment Lords amendment No. 10.

During the discussion on the various amendments in Committee many speakers suggested that we should declare explicitly that the trustees could take into account a case for limiting public access to property. Amongst the examples given were bird sanctuaries, other nature reserves, and houses with fragile furnishings. The word "controlling" is designed to convey this point.

Once again, the Government clearly have listened to the feelings expressed on both sides of the Committee. Therefore, we accept the amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords amendment No. 10 agreed to.

Lords amendment: No. 11, in page 3, line 7, leave out subsection (4).

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

This amendment strengthens the trustees' independence. It was always anomalous to require Treasury consent to loans but not to grants.

12.45 am

At a quarter to one in the morning this is not the time to start a long argument on a related topic to this amendment, namely, the question of confidentiality on which the Treasury approached some hon. Members on 20 March. This is the subject of long correspondence between the Treasury and a number of hon. Members who served on the Committee. I ask the Leader of the House to note only that the issue of confidentiality is complex. There are various parliamentary means by which some hon. Members would like to return to it, but not tonight.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: No. 12, in page 3, line 29, leave out from "gallery" to "a" in line 31 and insert

",library or other similar institution having as its purpose or one of its purposes the preservation for the public benefit of".

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

With this, it will be convenient to take Lords Amendments Nos. 13 to 15, 19, 20, 23 and 25.

The amendments are designed to ensure that private libraries such as cathedral libraries can secure assistance from the fund. The amendments to the provisions on indemnity are consequential, because the definitions of the eligible institutions for indemnities should be in line with those on assistance from the fund.

I heard the bishop in the other place put forward his argument. It seems to have convinced many of the experts. We accept it.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords amendments Nos. 13 to 15 agreed to.