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Future Arrangements For Members'salaries

Volume 25: debated on Thursday 10 June 1982

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

That this House—
  • (a) welcomes the Report of the Select Committee on Members' Salaries which was ordered by this House to be printed on 17th February 1982;
  • (b) agrees with the recommendation in that Report that a review of Members' pay be conducted by the Review Body on Top Salaries once during the fourth year of each Parliament and that, where a shortened Parliament precludes this, the Review Body should carry out a new review not later than four years after the rates of salary consequent on the previous review first became payable;
  • (c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such reviews, Members' salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries, but does not accept the recommendation that there should be an annual automatic adjustment by reference to figures taken from the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey;
  • (d) is of opinion that Her Majesty's Government should instead, in the period between one such review and the next, move annual motions to effect changes in Members' salaries and in so doing should be guided by the average change in the rates of pay of appropriate groups in the Public Service over a relevant period.—[Mr. Biffen.]
  • Amendment proposed: (a), to leave out from '1982' to end of motion and add

    `and agrees with the recommendations of that Report' .—[Mr. Peter Thomas.]

    Question put, That the amendment be made:—

    The House divided: Ayes, 49. Noes, 117.

    Division No. 203]

    [12.34 am

    AYES

    Atkinson, N.(H'gey,)McNamara, Kevin
    Benn, Rt Hon TonyMiscampbell, Norman
    Booth, Rt Hon AlbertMitchell, Austin (Grimsby)
    Brown, Hugh D. (Provan)Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
    Campbell-Savours, DaleMorris, Rt Hon C. (O'shaw)
    Carter-Jones, LewisPrice, C. (Lewisham W)
    Clegg, Sir WalterRees-Davies, W. R.
    Cocks, Rt Hon M. (B'stol S)Roper, John
    Cohen, StanleyRoss, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
    Cook, Robin F.Shaw, Michael (Scarborough)
    Crowther, StanSilkin, Rt Hon J. (Deptford)
    Cunningham, G.(Islington S)Soley, Clive
    Davis, Clinton (Hackney C)Spearing, Nigel
    Davis, Terry (B 'ham, Stechf'd)Stoddart, David
    Dormand, JackStraw, Jack
    Evans, John (Newton)Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E)
    Foster, DerekThomas, Rt Hon Peter
    Garrett, John (Norwich S)Ward, John
    Greenway, HarryWhitehead, Phillip
    Harrison, Rt Hon WalterWinterton, Nicholas
    Home Robertson, JohnWoolmer, Kenneth
    Hooley, FrankWrigglesworth, Ian
    Howells, Geraint
    Lawrence, IvanTellers for the Ayes:
    Lyon, Alexander(York)Mr. Michael English and
    McDonald, DrOonaghMr. Mark Wolfson.
    McKay, Allen (Penistone)

    NOES

    Alison, Rt Hon MichaelChapman, Sydney
    Ancram, MichaelClark, Sir W.(Croydon S)
    Baker, Kenneth(St.M'bone)Clarke, Kerneth(Rushcllffe)
    Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset)Cope, John
    Beaumont-Dark, AnthonyDunn, Rober(Dartford)
    Berry, Hon AnthonyEggar, Tim
    Best, KeithEyre, Reginald
    Biffen, Rt Hon JohnFenner, Mrs Peggy
    Blaker, PeterFinsberg, Geoffrey
    Bottomley, Peter (W wich W)Fletcher, A. (Ed'nb'gh N)
    Boyson, Dr RhodesForman, Nigel
    Brittan, Rt. Hon. LeonFowler, Rt Hon Norman
    Brooke, Hon PeterFraser, Peter (South Angus)
    Bruce-Gardyne, JohnGarel-Jones, Tristan
    Bryan, Sir PaulGlyn, Dr Alan
    Buchanan-Smith, Rt, Hon. A.Goodhew, Sir Victor
    Butcher, JohnGoodlad, Alastair
    Cadbury, JocelynGummer, John Selwyn
    Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)Hamilton, Hon A.
    Chalker, Mrs. LyndaHamilton, Michael (Salisbury)
    Channon, Rt. Hon. PaulHampson, DrKeith

    Havers, Rt Hon Sir MichaelPollock, Alexander
    Hawkins, PaulRaison, Rt Hon Timothy
    Hayhoe, BarneyRathbone, Tim
    Heseltine, Rt Hon MichaelRees, Peter (Dover and Deal)
    Hogg, Hon Douglas(Gr'th'm)Ridley, Hon Nicholas
    Howe, Rt Hon Sir GeoffreyRifkind, Malcolm
    Howell, Rt Hon D(G'ldf'd)Roberts, M. (Cardiff NW)
    Hunt, David (Wirrai)Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
    Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas)Rossi, Hugh
    Jenkin, Rt Hon PatrickSainsbury, Hon Timothy
    Jopling, Rt Hon MichaelShelton, William(Streatham)
    Joseph, Rt Hon Sir KeithSilvester, Fred
    King, Rt Hon TomSims, Roger
    Lamont, NormanSkinner, Dennis
    Lawson, Rt Hon NigelStewart, A.(ERenfrewshire)
    Lee, JohnStewart, Ian (Hitchin)
    Lyell, NicholasStradling Thomas, J.
    Macfarlane, NeilTebbit, Rt Hon Norman
    MacGregor, JohnThompson, Donald
    McNair-Wilson, M.(N'bury)Thornton, Malcolm
    Major, JohnTownend, John (Bridlington)
    Marten, Rt Hon NeilTrippier, David
    Mather, CarolVaughan, Dr Gerard
    Mayhew, PatrickViggers, Peter
    Mellor, DavidWaddington, David
    Miller, Hal(B'grow)Wakeham, John
    Mills, Iain(Meriden)Waldegrave, Hon William
    Mitchell, David(Basingstoke)Walker, Rt Hon P.(W'cestor)
    Moate, RogerWaller, Gary
    Moore, JohnWarren, Kenneth
    Morrison, Hon P. (Chester)Wells, Bowen
    Myles, DavidWhitelaw, Rt Hon William
    Nelson, AnthonyWiggin, Jerry
    Newton, TonyYoung, Sir George(Action)
    Onslow, CranleyYounger, Rt Hon George
    Page, Richard (SW Herts)
    Parkinson, Rt Hon CecilTellers for the Noes:
    Patten John (Oxford)Mr. Ian Lang and
    Pawsey, JamesMr. Robert Boscawen.
    Percival, Sir Ian

    Question accordingly negatived.

    Amendment proposed: (b), to leave out from 'payable' to end and add—

    `(c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such re views Members salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries as indicated in the nearest percentile in the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey.
    (d) does not accept the view in that Report that the question of Members' pensions and severance payments should be subsumed under the general heading of "Pay" to await consideration in the context of the next general review of Members' pay, but is of the opinion that, in the light of the anomalies inherent in the present severance arrangements and the increased insecurity attached to the role of a Member, the Top Salaries Review Body be requested to undertake an urgent review of pension and severance arrangements and make recommendations accordingly.'.—[Mr. John Silkin.]

    Question put, That the amendment be made:—

    The House divided: Ayes 35, Noes 111.

    Division No. 204]

    [12.45 am

    AYES

    Atkinson, N.(H'gey,)Foster, Derek
    Benn, Rt Hon TonyGarrett, John (Norwich S)
    Booth, Rt Hon AlbertHarrison, Rt Hon Walter
    Brown, Hugh D. (Provan)HomeRobertson, John
    Campbell-Savours, DaleHowells, Geraint
    Carter-Jones, LevisMcDonald, Dr Oonagh
    Cocks, Rt Hon M.(B'stol S)McKay, Allen(Penistone)
    Cohen, StanleyMcNamara, Kevin
    Cook, Robin F.Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
    Crowther, StanMorris, Rt Hon C. (O'shaw)
    Davis, Clinton (Hackney C)Roper, John
    Davis, Terry (B'ham, Stechf'd)Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
    Dormand, JackSilkin, Rt Hon J. (Deptford)
    English, MichaelSkinner, Dennis
    Evans, John (Newton)Soley, Clive

    Stoddart, David
    Straw,JackTellers for the Ayes:
    Whitehead,PhillipMr. Frank Hooley and
    Woolmer,KennethMr. Nigel Spearing.
    Wrigglesworth,Ian

    NOES

    Alison, Rt Hon MichaelHayhoe, Barney
    Ancram,MichaelHeseltine, Rt Hon Michael
    Baker,Kenneth(St.M'bone)Hogg, Hon Douglas(Gr'th'm)
    Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset)Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
    Beaumont-Dark,AnthonyHowell,Rt Hon D.(G'ldf'd)
    Berry, Hon AnthonyHurd,Rt Hon Douglas
    Best, KeithJenkin,Rt Hon Patrick
    Biffen,Rt Hon JohnJopling, Rt Hon Michael
    Blaker, PeterKing, Rt Hon Tom
    Bottomley,Peter(W'wich W)Lamont, Norman
    Boyson,Dr RhodesLang, Ian
    Brittan,Rt. Hon. LeonLawson,Rt Hon Nigel
    Brooke, Hon PeterLee, John
    Bruce-Gardyne,JohnLyell,Nicholas
    Buchanan-Smith, Rt. Hon. A.Macfarlane,Neil
    Butcher,JohnMacGregor,John
    Cadbury,JocelynMajor,John
    Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)Marten, Rt Hon Neil
    Chalker, Mrs. LyndaMather,Carol
    Channon, Rt. Hon. PaulMayhew,Patrick
    Chapman,SydneyMellor,David
    Clarke,Kenneth (Rushcliffe)Miller,Hal(B'grove)
    Cope,JohnMills,Iain(Meriden)
    Dunn, Robert(Dartford)Miscampbell,Norman
    Eggar,TimMitchell, David (Basingstoke)
    Fanner, Mrs PeggyMoate, Roger
    Finsberg,GeoffreyMoore,John
    Fletcher, A. (Ed'nb'gh N)Morrison, Hon P. (Chester)
    Forman, NigelMyles, David
    Fowler, Rt Hon NormanNewton,Tony
    Fraser, Peter (South Angus)Onslow,Cranley
    Garel-Jones,TristanPage, Richard (SW Herts)
    Glyn, DrAlanParkinson, Rt Hon Cecil
    Goodhew,SirVictorPatten, John (Oxford)
    Goodlad,AlastairPawsey, James
    Greenway, HarryPercival,Sir Ian
    Gummer,JohnSelwynPollock,Alexander
    Hamilton, Hon A.Raison, Rt Hon Timothy
    Hampson,Dr KeithRathbone,Tim
    Hawkins, PaulRees, Peter (Dover and Deal)

    Ridley, Hon NicholasViggers, Peter
    Rifkind, MalcolmWaddington,David
    Roberts, M. (Cardiff NW)Wakeham,John
    Roberts, Wyn (Conway)Waldegrave,Hon William
    Rossi, HughWaller, Gary
    Sainsbury,Hon TimothyWarren,Kenneth
    Shelton,William(Streatham)Wells,Bowen
    Silvester,FredWhitelaw,Rt Hon William
    Sims, RogerWiggin,Jerry
    Stewart,A(ERenfrewshire)Winterton,Nicholas
    Stewart, Ian (Hitchin)Wolfson,Mark
    StradlingThomas,J.Young,SirGeorge(Action)
    Tebbit, Rt Hon NormanYounger, Rt Hon George
    Thomas, Rt Hon Peter
    Thompson,DonaldTellers for the Noes:
    Thornton,MalcolmMr. Robert Boscawen and
    Trippier, DavidMr. David Hunt.
    Vaughan,DrGerard

    Question accordingly negatived.

    Main Question put and agreed to.

    Resolved,

    That this House—
  • (a) welcomes the Report of the Select Committee on Members' Salaries which was ordered by this House to be printed on 17th February 1982;
  • (b) agrees with the recommendation in that Report that a review of Members' pay be conducted by the Review Body on Top Salaries once during the fourth year of each Parliament and that, where a shortened Parliament precludes this, the Review Body should carry out a new review not later than four years after the rates of salary consequent on the previous review first became payable;
  • (c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such reviews, Members' salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries, but does not accept the recommendation that there should be an annual automatic adjustment by reference to figures taken from the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey;
  • (d) is of opinion that Her Majesty's Government should instead, in the period between one such review and the next, move annual motions to effect changes in Members' salaries and in so doing should be guided by the average change in the rates of pay of appropriate groups in the Public Service over a relevant period.—[Mr. Biffen]