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Engagements

Volume 25: debated on Thursday 10 June 1982

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Q1.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 June.

I have been asked to reply.

My right hon. Friend is attending the NATO summit in Bonn.

Since a long-term settlement of the Falkland Islands problem will demand negotiations with the Argentine, are the Government prepared to start now in order to avoid any further loss of life?

As the price of the recovery of the Falkland Islands grows in terms of life, injury and cost, will my right hon. Friend accept that the Argentine is simply not interested in just the Falklands or South Georgia, but also the South Sandwich Islands and British Antartica? Does my right hon. Friend accept that some of that territory is further from Argentina than London airport is from Moscow?

If I knew the correct answer to that question I would say "Yes, Sir." As I do not, I am not sure.

The right hon. Gentleman might have used the same technique with the previous answer to advantage. However, may I say that his answer to that question is quite unsatisfactory? I urged upon the Prime Minister on Tuesday, and in a letter to her yesterday, that the Government should take a fresh initiative in the Security Council to see whether an alternative to unconditional surrender can be offered to the Argentine forces. Many hon. Members and people throughout the world have pressed that upon the Government. Such a Security Council resolution would insist that the Argentine agreed to withdraw from the Falklands but would also offer the possibility of negotiation thereafter.

I must urge the right hon. Gentleman to take back to the Cabinet the proposition that the whole matter should be looked at, because if the fighting continues to the bitter end many more lives will be lost on both sides.

The right hon. Gentleman wrote to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. He has made a serious point that deserves a serious and proper answer.

First, it is important to say that at no time have we demanded unconditional surrender. We have made it clear that if the Argentine forces in Port Stanley announced their wish to withdraw to the mainland they would be given time to do so with dignity and good order. That is their opportunity. Before their invasion we made it clear to the Argentines that we were prepared to discuss matters affecting the future of the islands with them. Even after their invasion we were prepared to do so if they promptly withdrew. However, their response was to insist on ultimate transfer of sovereignty to them as a pre-condition. That was not acceptable.

Since our landings on the islands and the losses that we have incurred, it is unthinkable to negotiate about the future of the islands as if everything was as it had been before. As I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will accept, the situation has moved on and the islanders will need a breathing space before they can express their views about their future. I am sure that all hon. Members would wish them to do that.

I fully acknowledge part of what the right hon. Gentleman has said. We have never disputed the fact that fair offers have been made to the Argentine junta. I am not asking the Government to come forward with a full plan of what they are prepared to negotiate about later, but I repeat that a number of people and countries are saying that the Government should see whether a fresh proposal could be made immediately to the Security Council to help stop the loss of life. The loss of life in the past 24 or 48 hours and the loss of life that may be occurring now adds further weight to that proposition. Once again, I urge the Government to do what many people throughout the world are asking them to do.

I think that the right hon. Gentleman will agree that I made a careful and considered response to an important request. I stand by that response and have nothing to add to it.

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to draw the attention of the Secretary of State for Education and Science and of the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to the report of the Overseas Students Trust, which highlights the anomaly of charging students from Hong Kong and the Falkland Islands three times as much for their education as students from Europe are charged, and recommends that students from the British dependent territories should be treated as if they were British born?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern and I assure him that the Government will consider the report very carefully.

Since the whole country owes an unrepayable debt to those of our forces who have given their lives in the Falkland Islands, will the Government give further consideration to the genuine and deeply felt pleas from relatives that the bodies should be brought home for burial?

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Defence said that the matter will be carefully considered, and it certainly will be.

Q2.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 10 June.

I have been asked to reply.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Will the Home Secretary confirm that as soon as hostilities cease in the Falkland Islands the Government intend to hold a full and fair inquiry into the events leading up to the Argentine invasion? When will such an inquiry begin and how will it be set up?

In response to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond) my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister undertook that there would be such an inquiry. She will certainly be in contact with the leaders of the Opposition parties to discuss how that might best be promoted.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people are somewhat bewildered by the proposal to repatriate Captain Astiz, since we are not required under the Geneva convention to do so at this stage and bearing in mind that there are still three innocent British citizens, who happen to be journalists, who are being unlawfully detained in Argentina?

Captain Astiz has been questioned, as agreed, on behalf of the French and Swedish Governments. He is a prisoner of war. Certain dispositions have to be undertaken in relation to prisoners of war, but there are no positions to be taken against him as far as Britain is concerned.

As the number of long-term unemployed reached 1 million for the first time last week, and as this week's CBI Economic Review says that there is no evidence of an upturn in the economy, will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Prime Minister to publish the evidence for the economic recovery that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury assures us is all around us?

In recent weeks a number of statistics have shown that the economic recovery is proceeding. I stand by them.

Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the commander of the task force is not being restrained in his operations to recapture Port Stanley for any political reason?

He is not being restrained in any way. The operations are entirely a matter for the commander of the task force.

Q3.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 June.

I have been asked to reply.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is attending the NATO summit in Bonn.

Will the Home Secretary find time today to look at reports in the press about the proposals from the Select Committee on Home Affairs for a review procedure for complaints against the police in England and Wales? Does he agree that it would do much for his reputation as a Home Secretary who is committed to fairness and justice as much as he is to law and order if he went for a fully independent review system? Short of that, will he at least commit himself in the White Paper to independent regional assessors?

I have undertaken to consider carefully what the Select Committee said. I shall fulfil that undertaking and will come forward with an answer to it and with my proposals for legislation as soon as possible.

Will my right hon. Friend probe the Leader of the Opposition's views a little further? To many of us it sounds as if he is prepared to hand over the Falkland Islands to a Fascist dictatorship, in the hope of saving some lives?

It is not for me to probe the views of the Leader of the Opposition under any circumstances.

What news does the right hon. Gentleman have of the number of casualties sustained so far in the Lebanon? What news does he have of the bombing of refugee camps in and around Beirut? Will he take this opportunity to condemn the unwarranted incursion into the Lebanon by Israeli forces and tell the House what negotiations the Government have held with our European partners?

In response to the hon. Gentleman's first question, I cannot give him the information that he seeks. On his second point, I confirm what my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have said—that we wholeheartedly condemn Israeli aggression in the Lebanon. We have demonstrated that in the United Nations and we shall support Mr. Habib and everyone else in seeking an Israeli withdrawal at the earliest possible moment.

At what point did the Prime Minister reveal to her Deputy Prime Minister that she had brushed aside the professional advice on air superiority given by some of her Chiefs of Staff? As a former Scots Guards officer, what did the right hon. Gentleman say?

Will my right hon. Friend disregard the comment made by the hon. Member for Coventry, North-West (Mr. Robinson) about the Home Affairs Committee report on complaints against the police, because the hon. Gentleman was not a member of the Committee and heard nothing of the many hours of evidence listened to keenly by those who were members of the Committee and who submitted the report?

On the rare occasions that I have to answer at Prime Minister's Question Time, I am always grateful to those who question me on my subjects as Home Secretary. I well understand the great problems that attach to finding the correct solution for complaints against the police. The situation is extremely complex and I hope that the House will bear with me, because we all want to get the answer right.

Q4.

I have been asked to reply.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

In view of the Prime Minister's statement yesterday that she is ready, if necessary, to turn the Falkland Islands into a fortress for an indefinite period, are we not at least entitled to know the estimated annual cost of all this and where the money is to come from? If, as the Prime Minister said, freedom is expensive but worth defending, when will the Tory Government give greater priority to public investment in jobs to ensure freedom from unemployment for the 3 million people on the dole queue?

When the Prime Minister said that freedom was worth defending, she was surely right. The right of self-determination for the Falkland Islanders is worth defending and that is what we are doing.

Given the generous offer made by the Australian Government, will my right hon. Friend seriously consider the possibility of retaining HMS "Invincible", especially as there is an overwhelming case for having two carriers permanently operational?

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence have made clear, we are grateful to the Australians for their offer and it will be most carefully considered.

How many more men from the 1st Welsh Brigade are to be killed or cruelly mutilated, and how many Welsh mothers are to mourn their sons, before the Prime Minister desists from her provocative and deliberate insistence on unconditional surrender and from an insistence that for eternity the Argentine must not participate in affairs on those islands? Will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Prime Minister to think as a mother, which she fitfully and publicly did some time ago, and stop the role-playing of a warrior queen?

The hon. Gentleman has made some personal remarks. Perhaps it would be in order for me to reply to him in a similarly personal way. There are a good number of us in the House who fought for a long time in defence of freedom in the world. We are entitled to say that we did. We are entitled to be worried about what strains we are putting on our young soldiers today, but we know in our hearts that it is right to do so.