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Oral Answers To Questions

Volume 136: debated on Monday 27 June 1988

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Wales

Private Schools

2.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he has any proposals to increase his powers of supervision over the standards of academic work and pastoral care at private schools in the Principality.

No, Sir. Her Majesty's inspectors of schools have a programme of regular visits to independent schools in Wales. Parents, too, will exercise their own controls in checking on standards at such schools.

Does the Minister agree that he does not appear to have any powers to determine the fitness for the teaching profession of headmasters who are also the proprietors of their own schools? I cite as an example Mr. William Hoole of New College school, Cardiff, who was sacked as headmaster of the school last October for three offences. The first offence was a liaison with a sixth former under his charge. The second was a physical assault of an 11-year-old pupil under his charge, for which that pupil is still receiving medical treatment nine months later. The third offence was diverting a five-figure sum of school fees to the purchase of a flat for that sixth-form pupil, who is now a university student.

Mr. Hoole was subsequently reinstated by the device of an extraordinary general meeting. Does the Minister agree that in these circumstances the list 99 procedure does not appear to apply and that he should take more powers to cover these circumstances?

I have noted the contents of the hon. Gentleman's early day motion. The HMI visited New College school in June of last year and saw no ground for concern then. It will be visiting the school again this year. Should any concerns be identified, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will consider whether he needs to take action. Should my right hon. Friend be dissatisfied with standards of education or accommodation at an independent school, or with the fitness of its proprietor, he can issue a notice of complaint requiring remedial action to be taken.

Inward Investment

3.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what is his latest estimate of net inward investment in Wales in 1987; and if he will make a statement on present trends.

The latest estimate of inward investment into Wales in 1987 is 113 projects, involving investment of £244 million.

Present trends suggest that there is every prospect of this high level of activity being maintained. In the first five months of this year projects involving investment of £248 million have taken place.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that excellent reply. Does he agree that the remarks of the right hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams) last Thursday about a coolie economy and the attack by the Trades Union Congress on single-union agreements in Wales do nothing to help this excellent trend and may damage the Welsh economy?

Quite a number of single union agreements in Wales have been reached by a whole range of unions, including the Transport and General Workers Union, which has recently negotiated a very successful one. As for the remarks concerning a coolie economy, I do not think that any of the many fine Japanese and German firms that we are delighted have come into Wales will take those remarks seriously.

The Secretary of State will recall that recently published figures show that inward investment has had relatively little impact in Powys, Gwynedd and Dyfed. When does he expect that to change?

It is more difficult to attract inward investment from overseas to the geographically more remote parts of Wales and other parts of the United Kingdom. We endeavour to compensate for that by the activities of the Welsh Development Agency in encouraging new business. Furthermore, we point to the success stories in mid-Wales and elsewhere when some of the bigger British firms have gone into those localities.

Is my right hon. Friend able to say what the full-time male Welsh coolie is now being paid, compared with 1979 when the shadow Secretary of State last held Government office?

In 1979 the full-time male employee in Wales received £97·60 a week. Now he is likely to receive about £220 a week.

The Secretary of State said that one element in his Valleys initiative will be the help that he will give to Welsh component suppliers. Can he say specifically what kind of help that will be?

We have already had a series of meetings with component suppliers to the motor industry. In the Valleys initiative I said that the WDA was carrying out a major market research programme to see what we can identify about the potential for component part manufacturers. Having identified that, we can take appropriate decisions.

Elderly People

5.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the funding of research programmes on the elderly in Wales.

20.

To ask the Secretary of state for Wales what representations he has received concerning the withdrawal of funding for the University of Wales's research team for the care of the eldery; and if he will make a statement.

Several representations have been received about the withdrawl of funding for the University of Wales' research team for care of the elderly.

It is standard practice for the work of such units to be reviewed regularly, and a recent exercise was carried out by a team of independent experts led by the DHSS chief scientist. As the present contract for the unit was due to end in January 1989, it was decided that the time would be opportune to reorientate the clinical and Health Service-related research effort in this field of study by making other more beneficial and cost-effective arrangements. Current spending on research into care of the elderly in England and Wales is about £400,000, of which about half is spent in Wales.

Does the Minister agree that by the year 2000 there will be over double the number of 85-year-olds in the community, and that they are by far the greatest users of health and social services? Is this not a case of cutting off of one's nose to spite one's face, since the unit in Cardiff was especially expert in looking at ways of keeping elderly people in the community rather than paying a great deal of public money to keep them in private residential homes? Is this not yet another penny-pinching and mean exercise by the Welsh Office?

I think that the hon. Lady is confusing research in this field with the sort of action that we are taking under the elderly initiative. I remind her that the research is not finished, because the Welsh Office is funding the esearch unit at the University College of North Wales in Bangor, which is excellently directed by Dr. Gordon Grant.

Does not this matter graphically illustrate the differences between the Secretary of State's promises and the actions of his Department? Less than a fortnight ago he promised new initiatives to help tackle the problems of the elderly in the valleys, but now we have a decision which effectively means withdrawing support from the body that is charged with identifying those needs. How can the needs be met if the means to identify them are not available?

I think that the hon. Gentleman misunderstood my answer. The money involved remains in Wales and it is for the Welsh Office to find a more beneficial and efficient use for it. I should have thought that the more efficient use of money for the elderly would be welcomed by all hon. Members.

Roads

6.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what has been the total spending by central Government on roads in Wales since 1979; and how many miles of motorway and trunk roads have been laid since that year.

Since 1979–80 just over £1 billion has been spent on motorways and trunk roads in Wales and over £270 million has been provided to Welsh local authorities as transport supplementary grant for improvement of their roads. Twenty-two miles of motorway and 110 miles of trunk road have been constructed.

Can my hon. Friend say what further schemes he has in mind for the current year and what the cost of these is likely to be?

Before the end of the financial year we expect to let contracts for four schemes, costing over £53 million. Those are subject to completion of outstanding procedures and the availability of resources. They are on the A48 the Nantycaws-Coed Hirion bypass, on the A55, the Travellers' Inn improvement and the Pen y clip tunnels and on the A483, the Chirk bypass.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that it is high time the Welsh Office looked at all the requests that have been put to it for the enlargement of the heads of the valley road and its establishment as a proper dual carriageway, instead of the virtual death trap that was built some years ago? Will the Welsh Office look afresh at the whole project? If developments in other parts of Wales are to go ahead, surely the Welsh Office will look afresh at the problem.

The right hon. Gentleman will know that we shall shortly be publishing "Roads in Wales" and our plans for the future. I note what he says, but the heads of the valleys road is extremely good and following my right hon. Friend's Valleys initiative, there will be further improvements in the roads in the valleys.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that county councils have the same sense of urgent priority for the construction of roads for tourism and other industries as the Welsh Office has so commendably shown in its construction programme?

Local authorities have some £19·5 million available to them this year. I understand my hon. Friend's feelings, and I hope that local authorities will look to their roads, as he has so kindly said that the Welsh Office is doing.

When will the Secretary of State publish proposals in "Roads in Wales", which is due this year? Will he pay particular attention to the importance of north-south communications in Wales and the fact that British Coal is holding up an important section of the A470 from Pentrebach to Cefn-coed-y-cymmer in the constituency of the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands)? Will he ensure that that scheme goes ahead at the earliest possible moment?

I am sure that it will interest the hon. Gentleman to know that since 1979 over £87 million has been spent on the A470, and it is our policy to undertake selective improvements on that road. We are expecting to start on the A4060 at Merthyr, subject to completion of preparatory work and the availability of resources.

Tourism

7.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what are his current estimates for the number of tourists and the value of tourism to Wales and the number of overseas visitors to the Principality; and if he will make a statement.

The Wales tourist board estimates that in 1987 approximately 12 million tourists visited the Principality and that, within this figure, some 570,000 were from overseas. Expenditure data for 1987 are not all yet available, but are likely to show a significant increase on the £600 million estimated to have been spent by staying visitors in 1986.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he satisfied with the reliability of the tourism statistics for the Principality? Will he comment on the resources available to the efficient Wales tourist board?

My hon. Friend is right to say that there is some concern about the quality of data on tourism statistics, so the Government have commissioned Panell, Kerr and Forster to review the statistics, and its report is expected shortly. Since 1983 overall net resources for the Wales tourist board have risen by 90 per cent., and this year it has some £9·21 million at its disposal, of which £3·32 million is for section 4 assistance.

Will the Minister accept that of the tourists coming to Wales those from overseas represent only half the proportion that they constitute in the United Kingdom in general? If anything is to he done about that, there needs to be a massive assault on this market. Can he confirm that the WDA will be allowed to work in conjunction with the Wales tourist board on projects of importance to tourism in Wales, including helping to fund the opening of offices outside Wales in places like Stratford, Oxford and Bath, which could be of relevance in attracting overseas visitors to Wales?

I can confirm the latter point. The hon. Gentleman will know that we are concerned about having effective arrangements for overseas visitors, and these have been achieved by my right hon. Friend, in conjunction with the British Tourist Authority. As a result, people with specialist knowledge of Wales are in key overseas locations such as Frankfurt, Dublin and New York.

The Minister will accept that we all welcome extra tourists to our country, but does he recognise that, nationally, four of the 10 lowest-paid occupations for women are within the tourist industry? Is he aware that, of all the regions, Wales has the lowest paid employees in hotels and catering, the sort of coolie economy-type of wages about which the Secretary of State was talking? As he is thinking of expanding that industry, which is dominated by part-time and seasonal work, what action does he intend to take to protect the conditions of work and the pay of those people in the industry, or does he expect them to continue to work for a pittance?

Tourism is one of the most important industries and is, of course, a substantial employer. Some 90,000 people are employed in tourism and my impression is that the employers pay what the industry can afford. That, of course, will continue under whichever form of Government we have.

Schools (Visits)

8.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many schools in Wales he has visited from his appointment up to 13 June.

My right hon. Friend has visited two schools and I have visited five schools in the past 12 months.

Can I persuade the Minister to expand fund provision for nursery schooling in Wales, bearing in mind the recent cuts throughout Wales, particularly in Clwyd? May I remind him of the Prime Minister's famous commitment in the 1970s to nursery schooling for all?

Does he know that tomorrow the local education authority in Clwyd will consider the closure of Bistre nursery school in Buckley? Hundreds of parents are deeply disappointed at the level of nursery provision in Clwyd and parents of children at that school are very upset. How will the Minister help?

I understand that the proposals by Clwyd education authority to reduce nursery provision was rejected at a meeting of the county council on 7 June and that was why I told the right hon. Gentleman in the Welsh Grand Committee that it was a matter for local education authorities, as is the provision of nursery education throughout Wales. About 70 per cent. of our children under five are in nursery schools or classes. That is a high average compared with England and other parts of the world.

I am sure that when the Minister visited various schools in Wales he met many children who spoke Welsh and that he is aware that many parents in Wales are afraid that the Government will not introduce a new Welsh Language Act. Will he give an assurance today to the people of Wales that the new Welsh Language Act will be introduced in 1988?

Surely the hon. Gentleman knows the contents of the Education Reform Bill and the Welsh provisions in that Bill, under which Welsh will be a core curriculum subject along with English, mathematics and science in Welsh-speaking schools and a foundation subject in other schools. For the first time in history Welsh has a statutory place in the school curriculum. If I am not mistaken, surely that kind of advance was among the proposals being pressed for in the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley).

Does the Minister accept that, although education authorities have a responsibility, as he suggested in his earlier reply, he has a responsibility to encourage local authorities to provide a standard of excellence? In view of the legal decisions now being taken, will he assure the House that he will speed up the process to enable South Glamorgan local authority to provide a sixth-form college, which it is seeking to do, but which has been held up by the Welsh Office in recent months?

It is possible that the hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the purpose of the legal proceedings to which he referred. The court case revolved around concern by the Department, which was shared by the objectors, that South Glamorgan county council's procedures might be invalid. The High Court has now determined that the procedures were valid and, accordingly, my right hon. Friend will make his decision as soon as possible.

Single European Market

9.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will commission research on the impact on jobs in Wales of the European Community's proposals for the creation of a single market.

We shall be conducting a considerable campaign to ensure that Welsh businesses take full advantage of the opportunities of the single European market, so as to improve job opportunities.

Does the Minister agree that on the whole the Government and the Commission have taken a rather complacent attitude to the possibility of job creation in the regions? A Minister at the Department of Employment answered a similar question and said that his Department was not prepared to predict whether there would be job increases in the regions. Only today the Henley Centre for Forecasting was prepared to show some enterprise and initiative in predicting that the investment opportunities of the single market will increase the divide between north and south. Should not the Welsh Office be playing a far more dynamic role in trying to ensure that jobs are brought to Wales as a result of the creation of the market?

The figures that I gave earlier about inward investment are connected with the desire of overseas firms to have a place in the European market, and they have chosen Wales as that place. It is due to the activities of the Welsh Office and the Welsh Development Agency that over recent times Wales has had a much larger proportion of inward investment than any other part of the United Kingdom.

May I put it to my right hon. Friend—I do so on the information that the members of the Select Committee on Welsh affairs gleaned during their recent visit to Japan and Korea—that it would not be inappropriate to review the efforts that are being made abroad to promote awareness of all the changes that will come after 1992? That information is as important abroad as at home to the many investors who are contemplating setting up in Wales on the basis that it will be the best place for selling into the European market.

There is a great deal to be obtained from the two countries mentioned by my hon. Friend. There is also considerable inward investment to be obtained from the United States and from parts of Europe other than Great Britain. We are organising a considerable worldwide campaign to ensure that the advantages of Wales—for example, the regional development policy, the activities of the Welsh Development Agency and the willingness of the unions to collaborate—are brought to the attention of those who can take advantage of Wales as their location for European business.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Equal Opportunities Commission and the EEC have today produced a joint document on policies for under five-year-olds? I am sure he will agree that an important plank of opportunity under the Single European Act will be equal opportunities for men and women. Is he aware that the report criticises the United Kingdom Government, in particular, for their policies on equal opportunities, the lack of provision for the under-fives and the lack of implementation of the directive on parental leave? Will he study this further?

Steel Industry (Productivity)

10.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on productivity gains made over the last five years in the steel industry in Wales.

I am delighted to say that productivity in the steel industry has massively improved in recent years due to high investment and the collaboration of those involved. The British Steel Corporation's production of liquid steel and coil was higher in 1987 than it was in 1979 in spite of the industry employing nearly 30,000 fewer people in the Principality.

As for the private sector, the successful flotation of Allied Steel and Wire is, I think, clear evidence of an energetic, growing and forward-looking industry whose employees have full confidence in the future.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that splendid answer. Does he agree that it is a tribute to the £400 million investment programme in the Port Talbot steel works, for example, and provides an excellent springboard for further productivity gains as the steel industry is privatised?

Yes, Sir. I think that the steel industry in Wales is in a strong position. It is one of the finest steel industries throughout Europe and it is confident about the future.

If the Secretary of State is so enthusiastic about the achievements of steel workers in Wales, as he and everyone else has every right to be, why does he not listen to what they say about keeping the industry in public hands?

I think the right hon. Gentleman will find that those employed in the steel industry will be eager and pleased to participate in privatisation.

Does my right hon. Friend agree—I am sure that he will, but not because of any discussions beforehand—that the steel industry in Wales can welcome wholeheartedly something that I have wanted to see for a long time, the abolition of the quota system, because we are now competitive and can compete with the world?

Yes. As I have said, there are few steel industries in Europe more confident about the future than the Welsh steel industry.

Does the Secretary of State agree that the answer to the question is that the productivity gains made by the steel industry in Wales have come about because the steel workers in Wales refused to listen to Operation Slimline introduced by the Government in 1979, which halved the work force in the steel industry in Wales and halved output as well? That means that there are no productivity gains at all. The extraordinarily good performance of the steel industry in Wales since 1979 has taken place, if the Secretary of State looks at the facts, simply because the workers refused to abide by Operation Slimline.

The labour force has not been halved. It has been cut by almost two thirds.

Welsh National Opera

11.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received about funding for a suitable venue for performances by the Welsh National Opera in north Wales.

Representations have been received from Aberconwy borough council, the Wales tourist board, and members of the public for funding the development of an arts, leisure and convention centre at Llandudno, which would provide a venue for performances by the Welsh National Opera. There have also been representations by Rhuddlan borough council for a project at Rhyl, which might include provision for a theatre.

I do not need to tell my hon. Friend that the Welsh National Opera company is the finest in Britain and one of the finest in Europe. In view of that, will he give what support and help he can to either or both schemes to provide a regular place for the opera to perform in north Wales?

I regret as much as anyone the absence of a suitable venue in north Wales with the facilities required for companies like the Welsh National Opera company. Having said "like the Welsh National Opera company'', I believe that that company is incomparable and of considerable excellence. Yes, we certainly hope that a centre will be established in the north for the Welsh National Opera company, but I cannot prejudge whether that will be in Llandudno or Rhuddlan, except perhaps to tell my hon. Friend that Rhuddlan borough council's approach for urban development grant for its project has been discussed with my Department. The council has been informed that it is not considered to be eligible. Discussions are still going on with Aberconwy.

Homelessness

12.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many people are at present homeless in (a) Ynys Môn, (b) Gwynedd and (c) Wales; and if he will make a statement.

During the period 1 October 1987 to 31 December 1987, the latest quarter for which figures are available, six homelessness cases were accepted by the local authority in Ynys Môn, 69 cases were accepted in Gwynedd as a whole and 1,239 cases were accepted throughout the Principality.

If local authorities are obliged to dispose of their housing stock when the Housing Bill is enacted, will the Minister tell us who will assume statutory responsibility for the homeless?

Statutory responsibility will remain with the local authorities and it will be up to them to carry out those duties. They will use their powers in a way similar to the way they use them now.

Does the Minister accept that homelessness is still about 25 per cent. higher than it was when the Government came to office, on the basis of the official figures, which are lower than those of Shelter? Will he accept Opposition warnings that the recent decision in relation to the social security changes to pay bed and breakfast for youngsters a week in arrears will mean that, as landlords refuse to accept the arrangement, more, not fewer, of our young people will be made homeless?

I do not accept the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's assertion, as the numbers have risen by about 600, which is about 12 per cent., since 1979. The 1987 figures in comparison to those for 1986 fell by another 700. With regard to his second point, he will have to table a question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services.

Single European Market

13.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the action being taken by his Department to ensure that the Principality will fully benefit from the creation of the single European market and the construction of the Channel tunnel.

My Department will be active in bringing home to the business community in Wales the significance of the single European market and the opportunities that will be created by the Channel tunnel. I have already written to over 3,000 companies, drawing their attention to the single European market, and I have sent them a check list of action. I shall personally take part in two major seminars in the business community in Wales, in Cardiff in December and in Mold in November.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that statement. Does he agree that the optimism over 1992 must not be allowed to cloud the fact that gains from freer trade will occur only if there are losers as well as gainers? Will he get the blunt message across to Welsh firms that if they are not to be losers they must become more competitive, improve management and remove inefficient work practices? Will he do his utmost to ensure that Welsh companies can benefit from the contracts placed for the construction of the Channel tunnel?

As to my hon. Friend's latter point concerning the contract phase of the Channel tunnel, which is of course a very big project, to assist Welsh companies to benefit during the construction phase I have established a liaison section in my industry department with responsibility for informing appropriate Welsh companies of opportunities and potential contracts. To date, in excess of 100 potential contracts have been notified to more than 100 companies in Wales. As to the importance of competitiveness, those who will succeed most in the total European market will be those companies that are the most effective, competitive and efficient. I hope that those in Welsh industry will achieve those objectives.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know what prospects there are of European money for the Data Magnetics company in my constituency, where 168 jobs are involved, and where the receiver has moved in? Can he say whether there is any prospect of that company receiving a boost? Does he agree that if that company is given the funding that it needs it will be a world beater?

It is difficult for me to comment when matters are in the hands of the official receiver. I can only express the view that I hope very much that ways will be found by the official receiver of handling the situation so that work may continue and prospects are created. The Welsh Development Agency and others are certainly in close contact with the company.

Hospital Development

14.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what moneys he is making available for hospital development (a) in the Rhondda and (b) elsewhere in Mid Glamorgan over the next five years.

Mid Glamorgan health authority's discretionary capital allocation for the current year is £5·7 million—an increase of nearly 21 per cent. over last year's allocation. It is for the authority to determine its priorities for the use of those funds. Future years' allocations will depend on the outcome of annual public expenditure discussions.

I am absolutely appalled by the Minister's answer, in that the needs of the Rhondda and Taff-Ely area have recently been assessed at more than £50 million worth of necessary capital building. If Mid Glamorgan is to have only £5·7 million in the next year and an indeterminate amount over the next five years, it means that one of the most economically and socially deprived areas of the United Kingdom will have to wait an inordinate time for basic hospital facilities.

The hon. Gentleman knows that representations concerning the proposed development of hospital services in Rhondda and Taff-Ely closed on 11 May. Consultations on those representations are taking place at this very minute. The hon. Gentleman will also know that, as I pointed out, the increase this year is 21 per cent. on capital funding and 28·5 per cent. on revenue funding in real terms since this Government came to office. That does not show an ignorance of the conditions in the valleys.

Can the Minister give us reason for any hope over the reopening of St. Tydfil's? Is he aware that, based on current performance, there is no way that the Mid Glamorgan health authority will be able to re-finance the reopening of that unit? Is there any hope that he will give any assistance in the current financial year to help achieve that?

As I said in my original reply, it lies with the district health authority to decide how to manage its finances. The fact is that it has over the years failed to implement the cost improvement programmes, which have been undertaken in other parts of the country, with sufficient urgency and efficiency. We look for that increased urgency and efficiency, and then the hon. Gentleman may find that his unit will be reopened.

Does the Minister recognise the problems that exist in the eastern part of the county bordering Gwent, in the valleys of Rhymney and Islwyn, having a population of 150,000 people without a district general hospital of their own? What priority is given to a district general hospital for that area in the Department's long-term planning, and will the Minister give an assurance that funds will not be available for development in south Glamorgan on the basis that it will meet the needs of the valleys?

The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point. The question of hospitals within his own health authority's area lies with that authority. He is right in saying that services in south Glamorgan, as in Newport, serve certain patients in the valleys. That is an accepted fact of life. However, the whole question of social deprivation in Mid Glamorgan is understood, and it is worth pointing out that the formula for social deprivation is kept constantly under review. A working party chaired by the general manager of Mid Glamorgan health authority is considering whether any changes should be made in respect of the allowance for social deprivation and sparsity.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I give you notice that in view of that absolutely appalling answer from the Minister I wish to raise in an Adjournment debate the matter of hospitals in Mid Glamorgan?

Revenue Grant System

15.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he has received any representations from Welsh local authorities regarding the operation of the proposed revenue grant system in Wales.

We are engaged in regular discussions with the local authority associations about the operation of the new grant system.

First, now that the Welsh districts have come up with the precise figure for the implementation of the poll tax in Wales, and since the Minister has recently told the House that the Government will make provision in the revenue suport grant for such implementation, will he tell us when his right hon. Friends will announce to the Welsh districts the revenue support grant to help those districts? Secondly, precisely what percentage of the £16 million that it will cost to implement the tax will be given by the Government in that grant to help the Welsh district councils?

The hon. Gentleman will find the answer to his first question in the second, and the answer to the first question is, at present, as soon as may be.

Church Commissioners

Bishops (Stipend)

24.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, what representations the Church Commissioners have received about the stipends of bishops.

Mr. Michael Alison
(Second Church Estates Commissioner, Representing Church Commissioners)

The commissioners have received no representations about the stipends of bishops.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Does he agree that lack of representations can scarcely be a reflection of the level of stipends, which is not excessive, and does he further agree that it is much more likely to be a reflection of public concern about the nature of the leadership offered by certain bishops and the widespread public concern about the present system of the appointment of bishops, which often places the Prime Minister in an invidious position?

I am sure that my hon. Friend would not expect me to agree with literally every pronouncement that any bishop makes, whether about matters relating to the Church or the state. However, he knows that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has final responsibility in the rather intricate process of the choice of bishops. I will draw my hon. Friend's comments to her notice.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that, while baiting bishops is a popular pastime in this place, it would be proper behaviour to take a raincheck on such activities, at least until after the Lambeth conference?

The hon. Gentleman's mention of the word raincheck has drawn my attention to the activities of Crow Dog in the state of Ohio. Our bishops are a great deal more reliable than that. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that bishops are often baited and that a great many of their entirely constructive and helpful spiritual ministries go largely unreported.

Arson Damage

25.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, how many buildings within the control of the Church Commissioners have been damaged by arson over any recent convenient period; arid what is the security policy in relation to ecclesiastical buildings within their control.

Isolated incidents of arson have been recorded over recent years on the commissioners' farms, which are in the direct care of their tenants. The commissioners are not directly responsible for the care of churches, the security of which is normally under the charge of the incumbent churchwardens and parochial church councils. I am sure that, like me, the hon. Gentleman deeply deplores the arson attack on St. Peter's, Eaton square, last October, and a recent church fire in the City of London, which was also attributed to arson.

Against the background of the example of St. Peter's, Eaton square, of which I gave warning to the right hon. Gentleman, what is the advice of the commissioners to incumbents and other ecclesiastical authorities? Is it to keep the churches open for worship or, from fear of arson, to lock doors which hitherto have not been locked?

Broadly, that advice is not strictly ad vice that should be tendered by the Commissioners, although we clearly have an indirect interest in terms of the financial help that we give to the dioceses and parishes. However, the advice and information that we receive is that parochial church councils all strive to keep churches as open as possible. Although incidents of theft and vandalism have occurred in 45 per cent. of all parish churches in every part of the country in the past five to 10 years, nevertheless, the policy of keeping churches open is one that we wish to continue.

Lambeth Conference

26.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, how much the Church Commissioners will be contributing in cash and in kind towards the Lambeth conference; and if he will make a statement.

The Church Commissioners will be providing around £160,000, including the cost of seconded staff.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of how much this House wishes success to the Lambeth conference? Is he further aware that I welcome the appointment of the Archdeacon of York and hope that more people like him are appointed as bishops? Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the Church Commissioners will pay neither in cash nor in kind any contribution to the Methodist conference, which appears to have become merely a political politburo rather than an ecclesiastical gathering?

I, too, applaud the appointment of Canon Austin as the Archdeacon of York. I am not answerable for the findings of the Methodist conference, although as a Conservative I am bound to say that the sweeping criticisms of the Government that derived from that source filled me with some dismay. I look forward to studying carefully the factual basis of those criticisms.

House Of Commons

Serjeant At Arms Department

27.

To ask the hon. Member for Berwick upon Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, if he will take steps to initiate a review by the Staff Inspector of the work of the Serjeant at Arms Department in respect of the efficient provision of facilities for right hon. and hon. Members.

There are no plans for such a review at present.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that an increasing number of Members work full-time in this place, so that there are greater needs in the constituencies, often met from the secretarial allowance? Do not individual Members now rely even more upon the services provided by the Serjeant at Arms Department? Will the hon. Gentleman ask the Staff Inspector to consider two matters? First, should not one Officer of the House be made responsible for Gallery tickets, guides and tours, so that hon. Members can arrange such matters conveniently? Secondly, should there not be a review of facilities for basic shopping for those hon. Members who have to travel a long way?

There is generally wide appreciation of much of the work done by the Serjeant at Arms Department. The arrangements for tickets and guides fall beyond the remit of the Staff Inspector. It is something that the Services Committee might wish to consider, and I shall invite it to do so if the hon. Gentleman would care to put further proposals to the Serjeant at Arms. The possibility of a supermarket on the premises goes rather wide and might give rise to some rather interesting discussion in the House.

How much longer will the Serjeant at Arms and Black Rod allow large numbers of our fellow citizens who want to see their Parliament to stand in the rain in a queue?

That is an interesting point, and one that the Services Committee might consider and keep under review. The hon. Gentleman's comments will be drawn to its notice.

Refreshment Department

28.

To ask the hon. Member for Berwick upon Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, what provisions are made for the welfare of staff in the Refreshment Department during the summer months.

In order to alleviate the worst effects on staff of the hot and humid weather experienced during the summer months considerable improvements have been made in recent years to the ventilation and air-flow arrangements in almost all the Refreshment Department's kitchens and public rooms. As a result only one trading point —s Bar—has no form of mechanical ventilation or air conditioning. Further improvements are planned.

I should have thought that there was sufficient hot air circulating in Annie's Bar, such that any special provision would not be warranted. In view of some of the conversations that emanate from that Bar, would it not be appropriate for the hon. Gentleman to consider closing it?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this place is one of the smelliest and sweatiest that I have ever worked in, and that it is especially so for the staff? Are not the provisions for staff in this "Upstairs Downstairs" world of the Palace wholly inappropriate? Quite frankly, they should not be tolerated. I ask the hon. Gentleman to make further recommendations to make the working conditions for staff much better.

There are, indeed, further proposals to improve working conditions for Refreshment Department staff. More that £750,000 was spent on a scheme to improve the ventilation and air conditioning of the main kitchens. Half that sum came from the Refreshment Department's trading surplus, to which Members themselves contributed. Nevertheless, more work is required to improve conditions for our staff. It was, after all, to Politicians and not to people working in kitchens that the advice was given, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

Cash Limits

29.

To ask the hon. Member for Berwick upon Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, what is the policy of the House of Commons Commission as to the application of cash limits to expenditure undertaken on behalf of the House.

Cash limits do not apply to the Vote for House of Commons: Administration, which is the only Vote for which the Commission is directly responsible. The Commission decided in 1982 not to impose a formal cash limit system of its own, but over the years it has approved a series of measures designed to tighten the control of expenditure by Departments of the House without pre-empting the right of the House to take major decisions on its own facilities and services.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Has the Commission been under pressure from the Government to impose strict cash limits? Does he agree that such limits would have the effect of gagging potential critics, which would be undesirable for the conduct of the affairs of the House?

The Commission, throughout its history—I have served on it since it was created nine years ago—has resisted any attempt that would have inhibited the House's ability to carry out its duties by reducing its ability to undertake legitimate expenditure. The Commission has, however, sought to give the Government reasonable notice of public expenditure requirements, wherever possible, while always insisting that the House should decide on the services it requires, and the Commission makes provision accordingly.

House Of Commons

Bill Of Rights (Tercentenary)

31.

To ask the Lord President of the Council if he will make a statement on the progress of arrangements to mark the tercentenary of the Bill of Rights.

The Leader President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons
(Mr. John Wakeham)

Arrangements for Parliament's celebration of this tercentenary have been approved by the Lord Chancellor and Mr. Speaker on the advice of a Committee of Members of both Houses. I understand that the main components of the celebrations will be the presentation of Addresses to Her Majesty the Queen in Westminster Hall on the morning of Wednesday 20 July, and an exhibition in the Banqueting house in Whitehall, to be opened on Wednesday 29 June by Lord Hailsham. Her Majesty will also visit the exhibition on 20 July. There will be associated publications, including material for schools. It is hoped that many Members and their spouses will be able to attend the ceremony in Westminster Hall and the exhibition.

As the Bill of Rights was designed to protect the individual against the oppressive power of the state, would not the best form of celebration be to have another one?

We believe that such a radical constitutional change could proceed only on the basis of agreement between the parties. There is no evidence of substantial support for the idea on either side of the House and I think that a review would be premature and unnecessary. A written constitution would have to be entrenched, which would weaken the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. If legislation conflicted with it, the constitution would have to be interpreted by some kind of supreme or constitutional court, which would push judges into the political arena and might endanger their justified reputation for impartiality.

Research Assistants

32.

To ask the Lord President of the Council how many research assistants are currently registered as working for right hon. and hon. Members.

A total of 592 passes have been issued to all categories of research assistants. The Register of Members' Secretaries and Research Assistants records only those in possession of a photo-identity pass and who pursue any relevant gainful occupation other than that for which the pass is issued. It does not differentiate between secretaries and research assistants.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there are too many research assistants cluttering up the place? Is he aware that some of them are simply parliamentary lobbyists getting their telephone calls on the cheap, while others are doing party political work which should be funded from outside the House? Now that the opposition parties have had a 70 per cent. pay rise, will my right hon. Friend conduct a cull of research assistants and ensure that their activities are restricted to genuine parliamentary work?

My hon. Friend will be aware of the resolution of the House on 10 November 1987 which charged the Services Committee to consider the control of access to the precincts of the House, and in particular whether the numbers of Members' personal staff with access to the House should be reduced. The Accommodation and Administration Sub-Committee has now completed its inquiry and hopes to publish a report before the summer recess. We had better wait for that.

May I tell the Lord President that the money that goes to Opposition parties does not work its way through to hard-working Back Benchers? Many of us rely very much on the excellent efforts and work that we get from our research assistants. I hope that the Lord President will disown those grossly insulting remarks made by the hon. Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory) and welcome the contribution to the efficient working of this place that research assistants provide.

I am delighted to hear the first part of the question. It would be grossly improper if the Short money did work its way through to Back Benchers, because the Opposition Front Bench and the leaders of all parties have to sign a certificate to say that it is not paid to Back Benchers, so we are in agreement on the first part of the question. I certainly recognise the contribution that secretaries and research assistants make to Parliament, but my hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory) has a considerable point. Parliament will have to consider the numbers and whether access perhaps should be limited.

How many research assistants are employed by the Leader of the Opposition? However many there are, should there not be more?

Prime Minister's Press Secretary (Briefings)

33.

To ask the Lord President of the Council if he has any plans to make further facilities available to the Prime Minister's press secretary for briefings in the Palace of Westminster.

Since the revealing book by the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Critchley) called "Heseltine" tells us that he knows a great deal from his incarnation as a Chief Whip, will the Leader of the House tell us whether it was shortage of accommodation that made it difficult for Mr. Bernard Ingham to communicate to the Prime Minister throughout 14 days what the Select Committee report in paragraphs 187 and 188 said Mr. Ingham knew about the Westland affair? Has he seen that in today's paper, yet again, the Government are described as playing fast and loose with the truth?

I had nothing further to say on the matter before I read the book by my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Mr. Critchley), which I read last September while I was waiting for my son to be born in hospital. Having read the book, I have nothing further to add.

Is my right hon. Friend considering the provision of extra facilities for the Leader of the Opposition, so that the members of the Shadow Cabinet can communicate with him rather than ringing the Press Association?

The extra Short money that has been allocated should enable them to conduct their business in a proper and efficient manner, if that is what they plan to do.

Since the Prime Minister's press secretary is recognised as being virtually the deputy Prime Minister, and certainly carries far more authority than the Leader of the House, does the right hon. Gentleman believe that the facilities available to him here are sufficient, bearing in mind his authority in the realms of government?

Cutting all the trimmings out, the Prime Minister's press secretary comes here from time to time to give briefings to the Lobby, when invited by the Lobby.

Will the Lord President tell us how many passes to the House of Commons are possessed by people in the No. 10 Downing street press office? Do they count as part of the 140 passes to the Press Gallery held by departmental press officers? Will he further tell us whether the Government intend to conduct any inquiry into the activity of Government press officers in this building, who seem to devote a great deal of their time not so much to putting over the Government's story, but in attempting to rubbish the Opposition?

I thought that the hon. Gentleman would have something to say on that subject, but most of what he said is pretty misleading. I do not believe that it is at all the case that Government information officers do anything other than conduct themselves in the highest traditions of the Government and the Civil Service, under this Government and the Labour Government. I do not believe that such an inquiry is required.

Palace Of Westminster (Refurbishment)

34.

To ask the Lord President of the Council when he expects the uncleaned parts of the exterior of the parliamentary building to be refurbished; and what cost; and if he will make a statement.

Work on the remaining unrestored exterior stonework will take approximately five years to complete at an estimated cost of £6 million to £8 million.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there must be some continuing damage to the uncleaned stonework in view of the crumbling nature of the cleaned stonework, discovered by the cleaners? Does he agree that it is aesthetically offensive for the Victoria Tower to remain uncleaned, as against the beautiful and cleaned exterior of the remainder of the Palace?

I agree that we need to get on with the work as efficiently and effectively as we can. I agree also that the money being spent is not only to clean the fabric of the stonework but to restore it to a safe condition because some stones have fallen.