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"Start-Up Costs

Volume 175: debated on Wednesday 27 June 1990

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.—(1) The Secretary of State may, for up to five years from the date of any Order under this section, in relation to the functions covered by that Order and with the approval of the Treasury make grants out of money provided by Parliament towards any expenses incurred by local authorities in connection with the establishing of functions and activities arising under this Part, and in making any determination as to the adequacy or otherwise of resources under subsection (4) above the Secretary of State shall have regard to the desirability of making grants under this subsection.

(2) A grant made under subsection (5) above may be for capital or revenue expenditure."

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment— [Mr. Kenneth Clarke.]

Question put:

The House divided: Ayes 310, Noes 219.

Division No. 271]

[12.30 am

AYES

Adley, RobertAtkinson, David
Aitken, JonathanBaker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)
Alexander, RichardBaker, Nicholas (Dorset N)
Alison, Rt Hon MichaelBaldry, Tony
Allason, RupertBanks, Robert (Harrogate)
Amess, DavidBatiste, Spencer
Amos, AlanBellingham, Henry
Arbuthnot, JamesBendall, Vivian
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)
Arnold, Sir ThomasBenyon, W.
Ashby, DavidBevan, David Gilroy
Atkins, RobertBiffen, Rt Hon John

Blackburn, Dr John G.Goodlad, Alastair
Blaker, Rt Hon Sir PeterGoodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Body, Sir RichardGorman, Mrs Teresa
Bonsor, Sir NicholasGorst, John
Boscawen, Hon RobertGow, Ian
Boswell, TimGrant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW)
Bottomley, PeterGreenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Bottomley, Mrs VirginiaGreenway, John (Ryedale)
Bowden, A (Brighton K'pto'n)Gregory, Conal
Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)Griffiths, Sir Eldon (Bury St E')
Bowis, JohnGriffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)
Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir RhodesGrist, Ian
Braine, Rt Hon Sir BernardGround, Patrick
Brandon-Bravo, MartinGrylls, Michael
Brazier, JulianGummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn
Bright, GrahamHague, William
Brooke, Rt Hon PeterHamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom)
Brown, Michael (Brigg & CI't's)Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Bruce, Ian (Dorset South)Hampson, Dr Keith
Buck, Sir AntonyHanley, Jeremy
Burns, SimonHannam, John
Burt, AlistairHargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr')
Butler, ChrisHargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn)
Butterfill, JohnHarris, David
Carlisle, John, (Luton N)Haselhurst, Alan
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)Hayes, Jerry
Carrington, MatthewHayward, Robert
Carttiss, MichaelHeathcoat-Amory, David
Cash, WilliamHicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE)
Chalker, Rt Hon Mrs LyndaHicks, Robert (Cornwall SE)
Channon, Rt Hon PaulHill, James
Chapman, SydneyHind, Kenneth
Chope, ChristopherHogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm)
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)Hordern, Sir Peter
Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Colvin, MichaelHowarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A)
Conway, DerekHowarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd)
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest)Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)
Cope, Rt Hon JohnHughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)
Couchman, JamesHunt, David (Wirral W)
Cran, JamesHunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)
Critchley, JulianHunter, Andrew
Currie, Mrs EdwinaIrvine, Michael
Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)Jack, Michael
Davis, David (Boothferry)Jackson, Robert
Day, StephenJanman, Tim
Devlin, TimJessel, Toby
Dickens, GeoffreyJohnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Dicks, TerryJones, Robert B (Herts W)
Dorrell, StephenJopling, Rt Hon Michael
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesKellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Dover, DenKey, Robert
Dunn, BobKing, Roger (B'ham N'thfield)
Durant, TonyKing, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Emery, Sir PeterKirkhope, Timothy
Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd)Knapman, Roger
Evennett, DavidKnight, Greg (Derby North)
Fairbairn, Sir NicholasKnowles, Michael
Fallon, MichaelKnox, David
Farr, Sir JohnLang, Ian
Favell, TonyLatham, Michael
Fenner, Dame PeggyLee, John (Pendle)
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)Leigh, Edward (Galnsbor'gh)
Fishburn, John DudleyLennox-Boyd, Hon Mark
Forman, NigelLester, Jim (Broxtowe)
Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)Lilley, Peter
Forth, EricLloyd, Sir Ian (Havant)
Fowler, Rt Hon Sir NormanLloyd, Peter (Fareham)
Fox, Sir MarcusLord, Michael
Franks, CecilLuce, Rt Hon Richard
Freeman, RogerLyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
French, DouglasMacfarlane, Sir Neil
Fry, PeterMacGregor, Rt Hon John
Gale, RogerMacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire)
Gardiner, GeorgeMaclean, David
Garel-Jones, TristanMcLoughlin, Patrick
Gill, ChristopherMcNair-Wilson, Sir Michael
Glyn, Dr Sir AlanMcNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick
Goodhart, Sir PhilipMadel, David

Malins, HumfreyShelton, Sir William
Mans, KeithShephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW)
Maples, JohnShepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Marland, PaulShepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Marlow, TonyShersby, Michael
Marshall, John (Hendon S)Sims, Roger
Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)Skeet, Sir Trevor
Martin, David (Portsmouth S)Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)
Maude, Hon FrancisSmith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Maxwell-Hyslop, RobinSoames, Hon Nicholas
Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir PatrickSpeller, Tony
Mellor, DavidSpicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W)
Meyer, Sir AnthonySpicer, Michael (S Worcs)
Miller, Sir HalSquire, Robin
Mills, IainStanbrook, Ivor
Miscampbell, NormanStanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)Steen, Anthony
Mitchell, Sir DavidStern, Michael
Moate, RogerStevens, Lewis
Monro, Sir HectorStewart, Allan (Eastwood)
Montgomery, Sir FergusStewart, Andy (Sherwood)
Morrison, Sir CharlesStewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N)
Morrison, Rt Hon P (Chester)Stradling Thomas, Sir John
Moss, MalcolmSumberg, David
Moynihan, Hon ColinSummerson, Hugo
Neale, GerrardTapsell, Sir Peter
Needham, RichardTaylor, Ian (Esher)
Nelson, AnthonyTaylor, John M (Solihull)
Neubert, MichaelTaylor, Teddy (S'end E)
Newton, Rt Hon TonyTemple-Morris, Peter
Nicholls, PatrickThompson, D. (Calder Valley)
Nicholson, David (Taunton)Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)Thornton, Malcolm
Norris, SteveThurnham, Peter
Onslow, Rt Hon CranleyTownsend, Cyril D. (B'heath)
Oppenheim, PhillipTracey, Richard
Page, RichardTredinnick, David
Paice, JamesTrippier, David
Parkinson, Rt Hon CecilTrotter, Neville
Patnick, IrvineTwinn, Dr Ian
Patten, Rt Hon JohnVaughan, Sir Gerard
Pattie, Rt Hon Sir GeoffreyViggers, Peter
Pawsey, JamesWakeham, Rt Hon John
Peacock, Mrs ElizabethWaldegrave, Rt Hon William
Porter, Barry (Wirral S)Walden, George
Porter, David (Waveney)Walker, Bill (T'side North)
Portillo, MichaelWaller, Gary
Price, Sir DavidWard, John
Raison, Rt Hon TimothyWardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Rathbone, TimWarren, Kenneth
Redwood, JohnWells, Bowen
Renton, Rt Hon TimWheeler, Sir John
Riddick, GrahamWhitney, Ray
Ridsdale, Sir JulianWiddecombe, Ann
Rifkind, Rt Hon MalcolmWiggin, Jerry
Roberts, Wyn (Conwy)Wilshire, David
Roe, Mrs MarionWinterton, Mrs Ann
Rumbold, Mrs AngelaWolfson, Mark
Ryder, RichardWoodcock, Dr. Mike
Sackville, Hon TomYeo, Tim
Sainsbury, Hon TimYoung, Sir George (Acton)
Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas
Shaw, David (Dover)

Tellers for the Ayes:

Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)

Mr. David Lightbown and

Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb')

Mr. Timothy Wood.

NOES

Adams, Allen (Paisley N)Beckett, Margaret
Allen, GrahamBell, Stuart
Alton, DavidBenn, Rt Hon Tony
Anderson, DonaldBennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish)
Archer, Rt Hon PeterBermingham, Gerald
Armstrong, HilaryBidwell, Sydney
Ashdown, Rt Hon PaddyBlair, Tony
Ashley, Rt Hon JackBlunkett, David
Ashton, JoeBoateng, Paul
Banks, Tony (Newham NW)Boyes, Roland
Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE)Bradley, Keith
Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich)Brown, Gordon (D'mline E)
Barron, KevinBrown, Nicholas (Newcastle E)

Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith)Ingram, Adam
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)Janner, Greville
Buckley, George J.Johnston, Sir Russell
Caborn, RichardJones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside)
Callaghan, JimJones, Ieuan (Ynys Môn)
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W)
Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley)Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Campbell-Savours, D. N.Kennedy, Charles
Canavan, DennisKilfedder, James
Carlile, Alex (Mont'g)Kirkwood, Archy
Carr, MichaelLambie, David
Clark, Dr David (S Shields)Lamond, James
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)Leadbitter, Ted
Clelland, DavidLeighton, Ron
Clwyd, Mrs AnnLewis, Terry
Cohen, HarryLitherland, Robert
Coleman, DonaldLivingstone, Ken
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)Livsey, Richard
Cook, Robin (Livingston)Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Corbett, RobinLofthouse, Geoffrey
Corbyn, JeremyLoyden, Eddie
Cox, TomMcAllion, John
Crowther, StanMcAvoy, Thomas
Cryer, BobMcCartney, Ian
Cummings, JohnMacdonald, Calum A.
Cunliffe, LawrenceMcKay, Allen (Barnsley West)
Cunningham, Dr JohnMcKelvey, William
Dalyell, TamMcLeish, Henry
Darling, AlistairMcNamara, Kevin
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)Madden, Max
Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)Mahon, Mrs Alice
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'I)Marek, Dr John
Dewar, DonaldMarshall, David (Shettleston)
Dixon, DonMarshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Dobson, FrankMartin, Michael J. (Springburn)
Doran, FrankMartlew, Eric
Duffy, A. E. P.Maxton, John
Dunnachie, JimmyMeacher, Michael
Dunwoody, Hon Mrs GwynethMeale, Alan
Eastham, KenMichael, Alun
Evans, John (St Helens N)Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)
Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E)Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray)Mitchell, Austin (G't Grimsby)
Fatchett, DerekMoonie, Dr Lewis
Fearn, RonaldMorgan, Rhodri
Field, Frank (Birkenhead)Morley, Elliot
Fields, Terry (L'pool B G'n)Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
Fisher, MarkMorris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)
Flannery, MartinMowlam, Marjorie
Flynn, PaulMullin, Chris
Foot, Rt Hon MichaelMurphy, Paul
Foster, DerekNellist, Dave
Foulkes, GeorgeO'Brien, William
Fraser, JohnO'Neill, Martin
Fyfe, MariaOrme, Rt Hon Stanley
Galloway, GeorgeParry, Robert
Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr JohnPatchett, Terry
Godman, Dr Norman A.Pendry, Tom
Gould, BryanPike, Peter L.
Graham, ThomasPowell, Ray (Ogmore)
Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)Prescott, John
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)Primarolo, Dawn
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)Quin, Ms Joyce
Grocott, BruceRandall, Stuart
Hardy, PeterRedmond, Martin
Harman, Ms HarrietRees, Rt Hon Merlyn
Hattersley, Rt Hon RoyReid, Dr John
Heal, Mrs SylviaRichardson, Jo
Hinchliffe, DavidRobertson, George
Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall)Robinson, Geoffrey
Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth)Rogers, Allan
Hood, JimmyRooker, Jeff
Howells, GeraintRoss, Ernie (Dundee W)
Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)Ross, William (Londonderry E)
Hoyle, DougRowlands, Ted
Hughes, John (Coventry NE)Ruddock, Joan
Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)Salmond, Alex
Hughes, Roy (Newport E)Sheerman, Barry
Hughes, Simon (Southwark)Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Illsley, EricShore, Rt Hon Peter

Short, ClareWalley, Joan
Skinner, DennisWareing, Robert N.
Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C)
Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury)Welsh, Andrew (Angus E)
Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E)Welsh, Michael (Doncaster N)
Soley, CliveWigley, Dafydd
Spearing, NigelWilliams, Rt Hon Alan
Steel, Rt Hon Sir DavidWilliams, Alan W. (Carm'then)
Steinberg, GerryWilson, Brian
Stott, RogerWinnick, David
Strang, GavinWise, Mrs Audrey
Straw, JackWorthington, Tony
Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)Wray, Jimmy
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)Young, David (Bolton SE)
Thomas, Dr Dafydd Elis
Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)

Tellers for the Noes:

Turner, Dennis

Mr. Frank Haynes and

Vaz, Keith

Mrs. Llin Golding.

Wallace, James

Question accordingly agreed to.