To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the number of primary and secondary school pupils in Wales suffering from dyslexia and as to what specialist, qualified teaching is available for them.

The Education Act 1981 abolished the categorisation of children by disability, so the precise numbers are not available. Provision for children with learning difficulties is made by local education authorities according to local circumstances.

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that Clwyd local education authority only recently carried out a survey of primary school pupils to identify those suffering from dyslexia and that it has not yet carried out a similar survey in county secondary schools? Does my hon. Friend agree that all Welsh local education authorities should carry out surveys if they have not already done so, since such data are essential if we are to raise the standard of special teaching for dyslexic pupils up to the admirably high level that prevails at Orrets Meadow school in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales?

As I think my hon. Friend knows, dyslexia covers a wide range of learning difficulties. The intention behind the relevant provision in the Education Act 1981 was to abolish the categorisation of children by disability. I understand that Clwyd has acted as my hon. Friend described. It is for Clwyd to get on with analysing the number of dyslexic children in secondary schools, if it thinks that it should do so.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions he has had with local authorities in Wales concerning the future of the community charge.

On 7 January I met representatives of the district and county councils at a meeting of the Welsh consultative council on local government finance to discuss local government finance structure and functions.

Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating those people in Wales who have campaigned hard and long against the poll tax, often at great personal cost? Will he assure the House that when a replacement tax takes over from the poll tax, as it must, the new tax will take into account the cost of administration and that it will be substantially less than the very high bureaucratic cost of the poll tax?

I do not join the hon. Gentleman in what he asks, but he did not expect that I would. However, I very much look forward to meeting him and his colleagues, as well as senior representatives of the Liberal Democrats, in the next few days to discuss this thorough, wide-ranging and constructive review of the community charge. My great regret is that the official Opposition have yet to respond positively.

My right hon. Friend has done astonishingly well to enable councils in Wales to keep the level of the community charge so much lower than in England, but is he aware of not only the puzzlement but the resentment about the system whereby he has been able to secure so much extra money for rebates to communities? I do not know whether my right hon. Friend has anything to say on the subject, but I should be glad if he would at least say that he is well aware of that ill feeling.

Of course, I considered whether we might introduce the English form of transitional relief. I was responsible for formulating it for England. However, there were two reasons why that was not possible. First, it would have taken a great deal of time and administration to introduce. Secondly, I should not have been able to get the relief to as many people as I have. According to my predictions, if the English scheme had applied in Wales, it would have gone to I million people and amounted to £50 million worth of transitional relief. As it is, the relief will go to 1·4 million people and will amount to £62 million.

Is the Secretary of State aware that Newport's council and its people are bewildered by the perverse effects of the rebate, whereby most prosperous areas get a hand-out and most of the poorer areas get nothing? The Secretary of State has managed to add the unfairness of the old rating system to the unfairness of the poll tax. What does he intend to do about it?

Not at all. It is easy to calculate, because it is based on the average rates paid in that community. I have more than trebled the amount of relief and whereas in the past just over 300 communities benefited, now well over 600 do. Three times as much relief now goes to twice as many people.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Labour party is extremely long on criticism of the community charge but remarkably reluctant to take part in constructive discussions on how to improve it? Is the reason that the Labour party is unclear about which of its 60 local government policies are actually Labour party policy on financing local government?

I have spoken to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment about that matter and understand that the Labour party has introduced a new condition for participating in the review of the community charge in Wales. In England, Labour Members have confined themselves to saying that they will sit down and talk if the purpose of the exercise is the abolition of the "poll tax"; in Wales, the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) has now introduced a second condition, which is that I must promise to consider the introduction of a property-based tax levied according to an individual's ability to pay. It is about time the Labour party spent more time considering a positive attitude rather than considering what other conditions it will impose.

Does the Secretary of State agree that there is universal agreement among all local authorities, most political parties and even most members of the Conservative party that the poll tax is bad and should be abolished? Will not the Ministr admit that, over the years, the poll tax has been seen to be unfair? Does he accept that the most important statement for him to make to the House and to the Welsh people is that, in the first instance, the poll tax should be done away with?

If the hon. Gentleman feels so strongly about the matter, why will not he drop the nonsense of preconditions and talk to me about the future of local government taxation? In England the average payment after relief and benefit is £300 whereas in Wales, according to my latest calculations, which are in line with the settlement that I announced, the average payment of community charge after relief and benefit will be £161.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he last met the chairperson of the Countryside Council for Wales to discuss development and the environment in rural Wales.

I met the chairman of the Countryside Council for Wales on 30 October last year to discuss the council's corporate plan and other aspects of its proposed activities for the next financial year and beyond.

During discussions with the chairman of the Countryside Council, did the Minister of State discuss the funding of national parks in Wales? Will funding now be directed through the council, because the national parks in Wales have complained to me and many other hon. Members that their increase is about half that available to national parks in England this year and in the future?

The national parks' supplementary grant is, as the hon. Gentleman says, funded separately from the Countryside Council for Wales. We shall have to see how things develop, but we have increased the national parks' supplementary grant for next year by 11·2 per cent. Their representatives have been to see me. That increase was substantially more than inflation and is on top of a real-terms increase of about 37 per cent. over the past decade or so.

In his discussions with the chairman, did my hon. Friend satisfy himself that the Countryside Council for Wales will be adequately resourced?

I have given that assurance, even for the formation of the council in its shadow form. This year, we gave it £470,000 of grant in aid and next year it will have a total of £14·5 million.

The Minister will be aware that one of the special and unique features of south Wales is the finger of rural Wales stretching between the urban valleys. He will be aware of the great consternation about parts of rural south Wales being destroyed by landfill sites because local authorities are so strapped for cash that they cannot afford recycling units. What provision will the Government make to meet that need in urban south Wales?

There is another question on the Order Paper about the green belt which my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State hopes to answer. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be aware of the conference that was held under the auspices of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. There is no question but that parks are of tremendous importance to the whole of Wales. I know that the hon. Gentleman has particular regard for the Brecon Beacons national park, which generates much interest in the industrial valleys of south Wales and is supported by several county councils.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects the unemployment total in Wales to exceed 100,000.

In January 1991, the unadjusted total of unemployed claimants was 101,452. The seasonally adjusted total is 96,000.

Does the Secretary of State accept that those figures represent much suffering and an appalling waste of human resources in Wales? After 12 years of Tory Government frittering away our national assets, under-investment in education and training, transport, research, industry and employment generally, does the Secretary of State feel neither shame nor embarrassment that he has no new initiatives, policies or prospects for improving the position of the people of Wales?

To be fair, five years ago the headline total was pushing 200,000; it has fallen substantially since. I am certainly doing everything that I can to promote Wales and the development of the Welsh economy. Having carefully considered transport provision, I am happy to announce a boost of more than £8 million in local authority capital provision for urban projects. The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that I am making a £4·9 million transport grant which will enable his county council to make a start on the lower Rhymney valley relief road scheme.

I thank the Secretary of State for meeting the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman on Welsh affairs and myself to discuss an issue involving further redundancy and unemployment in Wales. If the Government continue like this, we shall soon reach the figure of 200,000 that he mentioned. I am talking about the 40 or 50 staff of the community action training organisation, which has trained 4,000 people in the past 10 years. It was established as a community initiative, but the Welsh training and enterprise councils, which the right hon. Gentleman was responsible for setting up, have withdrawn CATO's contract for 200 trainees. The Secretary of State should at least announce whether he intends to carry out an investigation to ensure that the TECs did not take a political decision on the closure of CATO.

I am happy to give that latter assurance. After hearing the argument of the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friend, I contacted the training and enterprise council. I understand that it had reasons for reaching its decision and I have asked it to make them available to the hon. Gentleman.

Will my right hon. Friend join me in welcoming this morning's announcement of the creation of a further 60 jobs at Breger Gibson in my constituency, which brings the total to just under 300? Does he agree that that is a further sign of how much more diversified, soundly based and therefore resilient our local economy has become in the past 10 years, thanks in large part to Government policy?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The £2 million factory expansion at Holywell, Clwyd, which will create 60 new jobs is indeed welcome. I was happy to be able to make a Welsh Office grant towards the project. As well as creating the 60 new jobs, it will secure the jobs of 230 people who are already employed by the company, which was established as recently as 1986.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks about transport. Is not he deeply concerned at the depth of the recession and the nature of the redundancies in Wales? I have in mind hundreds of redundancies in coal, steel, cement, furniture, clothing and electronics and in famous names such as Pilkington, Hoover and JCB. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the lost BBC and HTV jobs will be very hard to replace? Can he explain why, when unemployment is rising, with the figure of 100,000 in sight, he proposes to cut his industry and employment budget by 35 per cent? Why is that, given that the job situation in Wales is so serious? Will he relent on his plans to make cuts?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has tried to suggest that there are planned cuts. I believe that he has done a great deal to mislead the press—unintentionally, I am sure. The industry programme, as last year, shows a decline due to the withdrawal of regional development grants, but that had been expected for some time. My industry programme provides for total gross expenditure of £268 million next year, which is some £15 million above this year's spend. It will still be higher than now in 1993–94, even allowing for the end of RDG. The hon. Gentleman should not seek to bring down our country with talk of gloom and doom. The medium to longer-term prospects for Wales are as good as ever.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the progress of Heartbeat Wales.

The Heartbeat Wales programme, which is run by the Health Promotion Authority for Wales, continues to combat the high incidence of coronary heart disease in Wales. The evaluation that we have started under the programme, which was established in 1985, already shows welcome trends in the sample survey. It shows that smoking and excess drinking are decreasing and that more people in Wales now take exercise.

Notwithstanding the excellent work of Dr. John Catford and his team in Heartbeat Wales, my hon. Friend will be aware that the incidence of coronary heart disease in the Principality remains very high when compared with that in other countries. Does he agree that the new general practitioners' contracts provide an excellent opportunity to do more for health promotion? Will he ensure that general practitioners in Wales have the necessary information to deal with patients who come to them with high levels of blood cholesterol and other indications that may suggest the onset of coronary heart disease?

My hon. Friend's interest in that matter is well known, as he is the chairman of the all-party food and health forum. I assure him that the plans for action contained in the Health Promotion Authority's document, which has just been issued, concentrate on that. He is right to point out that, in the new GP contracts, health promotion and dealing with heart disease are given very high priority.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what is his present estimated date for completion of the dualling of the carriageways of the A55 from the Welsh border to Bangor.

Dualling of the whole of the A55 route in north Wales is expected to be achieved in 1994.

My hon. Friend and I have represented north Wales constituencies for longer than any other hon. Member in the House. Does my hon. Friend realise—I am sure that he does—how dramatic has been the transformation of the north Wales scene as a result of the progress made on the A55, especially during the past 12 years? Does he think that the public authorities along the route are taking the maximum advantage of the huge potential for development represented by this corridor of opportunity?

My hon. Friend will agree that the plans outlined in our document. "The A55: Road of Opportunity" showed a tremendous amount of activity on the part of local authorities and I certainly look to those authorities to develop opportunities along that magnificent corridor into north Wales.

The Minister will be aware that there are more than a quarter of a million of us living in mid-Wales. We have been very tolerant over the past 10 years. We have looked north and south and have watched the Welsh Office spending millions of pounds on the motorway in south Wales and the dual carriageway in north Wales. Will the Minister assure us that, after 1994, he will consider dualling the carriageway between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth to make sure that we in mid-Wales see fair play at last?

Our strategy for roads in Wales is set out in "Roads in Wales", which covers the whole of Wales. Not only are we providing the M4 in the south and the A55 in the north; we are spending a considerable amount on links to those two roads. On the north-south route, for example, we are due to spend £100 million on the A470 alone. We shall also be spending on the A483 from Manchester to Swansea and, in addition to Welsh Office spending, we are supporting extensive spending by local authorities on their county roads.

Does the Minister agree that the rural hinterland of north Wales requires links to the A55 if the benefits are to be felt deeper into the areas that really require them, including Denbigh and the Vale of Clwyd? Can the Minister tell me when there will be a link— perhaps bypassing St. Asaph, with which I know he is concerned? That would add a link from the Vale of Clwyd into the A55 corridor.

Clwyd county council is the responsible highway authority for St. Asaph. On the broad principle, as I said earlier, we are spending a considerable amount on links to the A55. I can tell the hon. Gentleman now that we plan to spend £175 million on those links, which include the A5, the A470, the A487 and the A494.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the green belts conference he held in Cardiff on 28 January.

At the Welsh Office conference my right hon. Friend called for serious consideration to be given to the benefits that statutory green belts could bring to parts of the Principality. Participants at the conference were drawn from the local authority associations and environmental and development interests in Wales. Speakers expressed a wide range of views on the green belt. The Assembly of Welsh Counties has accepted my right hon. Friend's invitation to take forward the consideration of that question as a first priority in its review of strategic planning guidance and to submit an interim report in spring this year.

I am sure that my hon. Friend acknowledges the outstanding contribution of the Council for the Protection of Rural Wales. Will consultation be confined to the county councils, which are neither planning nor leisure authorities, as South Glamorgan county council appears to be leading the charge to develop that which should be retained as green belt? Will he keep to the forefront the consideration that my constituency, north of the M4 from Tongwynlais to St. Mellons, must be the prime candidate for green belt status?

As usual, my hon. Friend defends with vigour his constituents' views and I certainly take on board his point. We shall certainly ensure that the district councils and the city council in Cardiff are included in our discussions on this matter, because, as he rightly says, they are the planning authorities for most issues.

May I tell the Minister that he will find support on both sides of the House for the speedy introduction of statutory green belts in Wales to protect areas like the rural Vale of Glamorgan which are threatened not just by developers, in terms of the destruction of open countryside, but by the lack of much-needed urban regeneration on the waterfront?

I welcome the hon. Gentleman's remarks. We want the issue to be bipartisan. It is not a matter for party political controversy and I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman supports us.

It seems a little late for the Minister to consider being bipartisan. He is becoming very good at attending conferences and appearing to offer help to solve problems that the Government have created. Does he accept that attempts at sensible and coherent planning of land use and the protection of the environment have been undermined by the way in which the Welsh Office has granted planning permission on appeal with gay abandon over the past 10 years? Will he promise now to break with the policies of the predecessors of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales and put the power back into the hands of local elected representatives to protect the environment of our towns, cities and the surrounding countryside?

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's premise.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many primary and comprehensive schools in Wales have applied to opt out of council control; and how many of these applications have been granted.

Two secondary schools have applied for grant-maintained status. The application in respect of Cwmcarn comprehensive school, Islwyn, has been approved and that in respect of Queen's comprehensive school, Newport, was rejected. No applications have been received from primary schools.

Does the Minister recognise that our local education authorities are being pressured into curbing expenditure which invariably means school closures? When those schools are allowed to opt out, the capital funding is two and a half times the level for local authority schools. Can the Minister explain the rhyme, logic and reason for that ridiculous attitude on the Government's part or is that just bribery to undermine our local authority schools?

The hon. Gentleman knows full well that the option of grant-maintained status was given to the education system, and particularly to parents, under the Education Reform Act 1988. Various procedures must be followed before a school gains grant-maintained status. We have explained our decisions, and the decision letters in the two cases to which I have referred are in the Library. Their revenue funding is much the same as it is for any school under the local management of schools system and the capital funding is provided direct by the Welsh Office in this case. There is a problem in Gwent of surplus places and our decision in relation to Cwmcarn does not contradict that policy in any way.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he next intends to meet the newly appointed chief executive of the Welsh Development Agency to discuss the recent fall in manufacturing output in Wales.

I keep in close touch with the chairman and the chief executive of the Welsh Development Agency about a wide range of issues concerning the development of the Welsh economy.

In view of the fall in manufacturing capacity in Wales and the severe damage that has been wrought on the manufacturing base in Wales by 12 years of Tory Government, is not the Secretary of State concerned that the experience and expertise of the recently appointed chief executive of WDA lies almost wholly within the candy floss activity of property? Will he ensure in future that senior appointments at board level and at senior level reflect sufficient expertise and a track record in manufacturing industry?

I reject the right hon. Gentleman's comments about Phil Head. I believe that he will be a marvellous chief executive. He won a very competitive contest for that position.

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's opening comments, I must remind him that the WDA's budget this year is to be exceeded to the highest ever level next year of £160 million, which is £10 million higher than this year and £10 million higher than the figure that I inherited. It is set to remain above the 1990–91 level in each of the subsequent two years. The Welsh Development Agency has the means. The hon. Gentleman should not seek to decry Wales. I have recently seen executives from TSB, DAS, Bosch, Toyota and Dowty Koike. Those companies are now recruiting. That has nothing to do with a candy floss economy, but much to do with an expanding and strong economy.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the people of Wales how his Government have reached such a serious recession after 12 years in power and about £100 billion in North sea oil revenues? Does he agree that falling output and rising unemployment are not just blips but signs of a recession affecting every kind of industry and every kind of worker? Why have he and his right hon. Friends in Cabinet been so complacent? It ill fits the right hon. Gentleman to tell us about our country. His Government are not helping our country.

The hon. Gentleman did not listen to what I said. I said that I thought that everybody in Wales would be greatly assisted if the Opposition did not talk and preach gloom and doom. The hon. Gentleman mentioned output. Output per employee in manufacturing industry in Wales is the highest ever. In the six years since 1985 manufacturing output in Wales has gone up by 33 per cent. Over the same period output in the United Kingdom is up 19 per cent. Five years ago there were 81 inward investment projects in Wales. We have increased that by 75 per cent. There are 135 per cent. more jobs through inward investment and investment has increased by 263 per cent. Will the hon. Gentleman pay attention to those statistics and not play down the recovery in the Welsh economy?

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has for the improvement of the economy of rural Wales during 1991.

Several.

I am sure that the Minister will agree that agriculture plays a major role in the rural economy of Wales. Agriculture is in crisis. In order to restore confidence will the Secretary of State assure the House that he will go to Brussels to discuss Mr. MacSharry's latest proposals? Those proposals, whether phase 2 or phase 3, will have to be accepted. On behalf of both farmers' unions in Wales, may I ask him to give that assurance?

This is very defeatist talk. On Thursday, the hon. Gentleman introduced a debate on agriculture, and my right hon. Friend the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food demonstrated how strongly we should fight the MacSharry proposals. The Leader of the hon. Gentleman's party has just said, and I was astonished to hear it:

"Farmers have cried wolf far too often in the past. Now that there is actually a real crisis they are having some difficulty in getting people to listen to them."

They have no difficulty in getting me to listen to them. I am aware of the difficulties. How much does the hon. Gentleman support that statement by the leader of his party?

I echo the concern expressed by the hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North (Mr. Howells). On Friday I attended a meeting about rural affairs. The Minister will know about farmers' serious concern about the future. They have had a bad year with lamb and beef prices, and now they are worried about the GATT proposals and the MacSharry proposals. All that we get from the Government is a vacuum. We know that they are opposed to direct income aid for small farmers. The vacuum creates much anxiety and despair. What can the Secretary of State say to farmers in my constituency who are afraid of going bankrupt?

There are many worries, and I share them. I refer the hon. Gentleman to the fighting speech by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food at last week's AGM of the National Farmers Union. That was a marvellous speech and I support every word of it. The hon. Gentleman should have paid tribute to the recent increase in hill livestock compensatory allowances. I fought hard to secure more than £37 million for Wales and I shall arrange for that money to be distributed to Welsh farmers as quickly as possible.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what proportion of school leavers in Wales in 1990 held a pass at A to C level in a foreign language at (a) GCSE and (b) advanced level.

In 1988–89, 21·3 per cent. of school leavers in Wales held a GCSE grade A to C in a foreign language. The corresponding figure for advanced level grades A to E was 3·3 per cent. Information for 1989–90 is not yet available.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, compared with the achievements of our European neighbours, those figures are worrying? Does he further agree that, unfortunately, we are short of sufficient foreign language teachers and that the teaching of foreign languages should be started in primary schools?

I, too, would like to see foreign langage teaching started at the primary level because we have had considerable success in teaching Welsh at primary level. There is, indeed, a shortage of foreign langage teachers, but we are combating that by providing bursaries of £1,500 per annum for trainee teachers taking the postgraduate certificate of education and other courses. We, too, would like to see a great improvement in the learning and teaching of foreign languages in Wales.

Could the Minister institute a study into the success rates of students taking foreign languages at GCSE and A-level, linking that with the constant drip, drip, drip of rainwater passing through leaking school roofs into buckets in the corners? In the county of South Glamorgan, part of which I have the honour to represent, the estimated cost of putting right the backlog of repairs to school buildings has now risen to £32 million, but the annual budget for repairing those roofs is only £9 million. How long is it——

This is a bit wide of languages.

How long will it be before that backlog is put right, and students of foreign languages at GCSE and A-level are given a fair chance of success?

I am well aware of the condition of our school buildings. Whenever I see a particularly rotten building and look into its date of construction, I usually find that it was constructed during a Labour Government's period in office.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what funds are available for the study of Arabic history and art.

No funds are allocated specifically by the Office of Arts and Libraries for the study of Arabic history and art.

I should like to ask the Minister a question, of which I have given him notice. What response has he made to Professor Akbar Ahmed of Cambridge about the squandering of our legacy of scholarship in the Arab languages and the study of Arab history? Could the Minister say anything about the removal of the famous Islamic collection in Kuwait? May not it be just as well that that has been taken elsewhere temporarily, simply because of the pounding that Kuwait may well receive in a land battle?

On the hon. Gentleman's first point, I am not aware of any squandering of the funding that is needed for Arabic studies at the universities or the university museums. Funding for the universities and the university museums is a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science. I understand that allocations are made by the Universities Funding Council to individual universities in answer to specific bids. Such allocations will, of course, include Arabic studies.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman's second point, it is, alas, sadly true that the contents of the Kuwait museum of Islamic antiquities have been removed by the Iraqis. It is one of the finest collections of Islamic art in the world. For the hon. Gentleman in any sense to take any comfort in the fact that that collection has been taken elsewhere is absolutely astonishing. It is an example of Iraqi pillage and of the despoiling of Kuwait.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what progress is being made in promoting Gift Aid; and what support the scheme is achieving.

A number of arts organisations have already received gifts under Gift Aid. This follows major initiatives to publicise this very imaginative scheme by the Arts Council and the Museum and Galleries Commission, through their tax guide, and the National Arts Collection Fund through its Gift Aid for Art register.

May I say how welcome it is that so many people and bodies are taking advantage of this scheme? Has not the time come for it to be extended from gifts of cash to gifts in kind? Is my right hon. Friend aware that considerable success has been achieved in Australia and in the United States by allowing tax reliefs for gifts in kind? Could not such a scheme be accepted in this country?

I appreciate what my hon. Friend has said. It is satisfactory that a number of bodies such as the Aldeburgh Festival, the English National Opera and the Tate have recently been able to make use of Gift Aid donations. As to the second point, plans to extend Gift Aid to cover gifts in kind are interesting, but as my hon. Friend will know, the decision on this matter rests with the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Is the Minister aware that, while many of us in Wales are pleased with Gift Aid in that it has bailed out the Welsh National Opera and other companies, we are worried that funding is being kept from organisations such as the Association of Artists and Designers in Wales, which gives funds to individual painters and sculptors? Is the Minister aware that, while the great institutions may thrive on such aid, individual artists are bereft of funds?

I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would be singing from the tops of the mountains about the help given to Welsh National Opera, and would be particularly grateful to the Welsh Office for the substantial sums that it has put forward to wipe off the accumulated deficit. The hon. Gentleman's other point should be pursued with the Welsh Arts Council. He should be suggesting that it should be studying the issue of direct grants to individual craftsmen in Wales.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the success of the scheme would be even greater were it not for the fact that, in some parts of the country, there is difficulty in obtaining Gift Aid certificates? Will he have a word with the Chancellor to ensure that there is an adequate supply of these documents, so that people can press ahead with such schemes?

I thank my right hon. Friend. I am interested to hear him say that. One or two other examples of it being difficult to obtain Gift Aid forms have been mentioned to me before. I immediately pursued the matter, to make certain that the forms were available to any charity or artistic organisation that wanted them. If he will let me know the names of any organisation that is missing the forms, I shall follow that up.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what contribution the business community is making in both financial and manpower resources in supporting the arts.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what role the business community is playing in supporting the arts through the Business in the Arts scheme.

I am delighted that the business community is continuing its splendid support of the arts, with sponsorship now standing at around £35 million per annum. Business also provides professional advice to arts organisations through business in the arts, which my Department helps to fund.

Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating a number of businesses in the Chelmsford area, which have generously sponsored arts activities such as the Chelmsford cathedral festival each year? Is not it significant that 70 per cent. of the business sponsorship incentive scheme money goes to the arts outside London?

I thank my hon. Friend for his support for this imaginative scheme. I am delighted to hear of the sponsorship of the Chelmsford cathedral festival. I agree that it is satisfactory that so much of the money through the business sponsorship incentive scheme is not spent in the capital but is widely distributed throughout the United Kingdom.

What contribution is the business community making to arts organisations in terms of the provision of management skills? Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in many ways, this is as valuable as contributions in cash? In how many cases has such help been given?

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. It is true that advice from sympathetic business men on how better to run festivals and artistic performances is useful. Business in the Arts has 60 consultants in a register of management advisers. It made 48 placements in London alone in the current year and is hoping to increase that to 80 in the year ahead. There are a number of interesting illustrations.

For example, an accounts manager from IBM is advising the Tricycle theatre in Kilburn on the design and analysis of an audience research questionnaire. More and more groups of artists are finding that business help is useful.

Does the Minister recall that during the previous Session I asked a question about a number of paintings and pieces of silver that the previous Prime Minister had stored away at Downing street? I was told that there were 72 different items at No. 10, including paintings from the National gallery. Can we be assured that the various paintings and pieces of silver have now been returned to their rightful owners, or could it be that the right hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) has set up an antiques business somewhere?

I am pleased to see the hon. Gentleman back in his place. When questions to the Minister for the Arts were last before the House, the hon. Gentleman was missing. On that occasion he had tabled a question on support for Welsh National Opera. I am sorry that we missed him on that occasion. I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will consider carefully the hon. Gentleman's question and go on to consider whether he should add to the beautiful objects in No. 10, change them or whatever. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to act as artistic adviser to the Prime Minister.

What contribution does the Minister expect the business community to make to the arts in London, precisely? Does he expect it to bail out the Government from their incompetent handling of the future of Greater London Arts? He will know that the director of GLA left last week and that it has no finance director, music officer or literature officer. What does the right hon. Gentleman propose for the 200-odd clients of GLA and for all the London music societies that are left without funding? Will he give them to the business community or will he do something himself to save the arts in London?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on retaining his position as shadow Minister for the Arts. I was rather fearful that we might have heard him call "crisis" from the Opposition Front Bench for the last time, and that he might be concentrating on his full-time duty as minute secretary of his notorious supper club. It is good to hear him in comparable voice. There is no crisis in London arts and there is no need for them to be bailed out. The hon. Gentleman will know that the London Arts Board has been set up as an autonomous committee within the Arts Council. That is how it will be run for a maximum of two years.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met representatives of trade unions in the civil service to discuss the role of trade unions within the civil service.

We have not yet met to discuss civil service issues, but I intend to follow the practice of my predecessors and meet civil service trade union representatives whenever necessary.

The Minister used to enjoy baiting trade unions when he was a Conservative Back-Bench Member. Is he aware that the continued ban on trade union membership at GCHQ is entirely unacceptable to Opposition Members? We shall never accept that British people should be denied their right to belong to a trade union. Will Tory Members have the guts to oppose my ten-minute Bill, which I shall introduce next week, the purpose of which is to attempt to reverse the present position?

The hon. Gentleman does me a disservice and his memory a considerable error. I have never baited a trade unionist in my life. I have been a member of the Association of Professional, Executive, Clerical and Computer Staff, like the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), for about 10 years. From time to time I have asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he would lend me his APEX tie so that I could wear it on suitable occasions. There is no change in the Government's position on GCHQ. I doubt, therefore, whether any of my colleagues will support the Bill that the hon. Gentleman intends to introduce next week. Affiliation by the Government Communications Staff Federation at Cheltenham to any outside bodies would not be acceptable to the Government.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that when a civil service union affiliates to an organisation such as the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, it is giving a clear signal to all its members, and especially to those who work in the Ministry of Defence, that it is putting the interests of the discredited dogma held by a minority of left-wing activists ahead of the need to represent the legitimate interests of all its members?

My hon. Friend advances his argument extremely well. I am sure that the leaders of the union concerned will carefully consider his remarks.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service what estimate he has of the number of civil servants who have been allocated to duties relating to the Gulf.

The hon. Gentleman will understand that the range of duties performed by civil servants—covering work as diverse as assistance to evacuees and shipping policy—makes it difficult to prepare an estimate of the kind he describes. A great many civil servants in the Ministry of Defence are involved in all aspects of work relating to the crisis, where civilian staff play a key role in support of the armed forces. I understand that outside the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office the numbers of staff allocated specifically to Gulf duties are very small.

May I ask the Minister a question of which I gave his Department somewhat short notice? How many civil servants are involved in the operation to clean up the oil slicks? I put this question in the light of the fact that David Olsen, who is the environment adviser to the Saudi Government, has complained about both lack of personnel and of equipment.

It would be helpful if the hon. Gentleman were to condemn unequivocally the Gulf oil spill as a deliberate crime against the planet. I have checked in Hansard the reports of his previous remarks, and I do not see that he has uttered any such condemnation, which I should have thought appropriate. As he knows, the United Kingdom Government made a quick response to this oil spill. We shall listen to requests from neighbouring Arab states for help. In particular, we should welcome offers from any non-combatant countries to help clean up the Gulf oil spill.

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the congratulations of the House are conveyed, in particular, to those civil servants who are involved in defence procurement? These people have had to work considerable hours, and under some pressure, to ensure that our forces in the Gulf receive their supplies—no doubt, hindered to a considerable extent by the cowardly refusal of the Belgian Government to ensure that we do have some defence supplies.

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I shall certainly see that his very well deserved congratulations on the work being done and on the hours being put in are passed to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met representatives of civil service unions to discuss the improvement of morale and conditions of service.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he next plans to meet civil service trade unions to discuss morale.

We have not yet met to discuss civil service issues, but I intend to follow the practice of my predecessors and meet civil service trades union representatives as appropriate.

Does the Minister accept that the working conditions of civil service trade unionists working in the national museums would be improved considerably if there were not holes in the roofs of those buildings? Let him tell the civil service trade unions that he will accept the findings of the report on the fabric of the national museums—a report which he commissioned—and will commit the necessary funds to the removal of this national disgrace. It is indeed a national disgrace that there are holes in the roofs of our great national museums.

The hon. Gentleman totally misstates the case. Having visited a number of the national museums, I cannot say that I found in any of them civil servants who are unhappy with their working conditions. Indeed, those employees are rather excited by the changes that are taking place. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have commissioned a survey by the building firm Ove Arup, which is to report to me the estimates for repairs. That report will be in my hands by the summer and I shall consider very carefully indeed the figures that it contains.

The Minister will be aware of the problems relating to over-payments, dubious payments and various other irregularities in respect of the sale of the Crown Suppliers transport section. Will he comment on the activities of Mr. Bill Pinkney in respect of the sale of that transport section, so that all these irregularities may be laid bare to the House and the public? Will he make a statement on this matter?

No. I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that if he seriously wishes to pursue this matter he puts in a letter to me all the facts and figures that are in his possession. If he does that, I shall look at those facts and figures very carefully.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the morale and conditions of civil servants would be much enhanced if many of them were to move to Teesside? Would not it be in the Government's interests to ensure that the Ministry of Defence did not renege on its promise to move 1,500 jobs to Teesside, but allowed its civil servants to take advantage of the excellent living conditions there?

As my hon. Friend knows, the policy of relocating civil servants to places outside London is being implemented vigorously. For example, the Inland Revenue is moving in a substantial way to the constituency of the hon. Member for Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen). I shall certainly look into the point about Teesside with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. If he writes to me giving further details, I shall pursue them.

Will the Minister also discuss with Locate in Scotland the possibility of relocating civil service jobs to Caithness, in the light of the changing circumstances there? Undoubtedly it will have a beneficial effect on the morale and conditions of service for the select few who might be induced to go there. Locate in Scotland has not been as active as some of us would have wished.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would like to pursue that matter with Ministers at the Scottish Office. I remember during my time at the Home Office that people in many parts of the United Kingdom suggested that we should move, for example, an immigration office or passport office to their area. If the hon. Gentleman thinks that a particular site in Caithness would be suitable, I suggest that he makes that known to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland.

When my right hon. Friend meets the trade union leaders, will he congratulate the many volunteers who act as shop stewards and unpaid officers of the unions? Will he also raise participation rates in the elections for national officers of civil service unions, which are among the lowest in the country? Will he consider whether it is the employers' job to draw to the attention of staff the dates of elections rather than to tell them who to vote for?

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. He speaks as my immediate predecessor as president of the Conservative trade unionists. I know that he has a great interest in trade union matters. I thank him for his suggestion. I shall certainly pass on his congratulations and ensure that the matters that he raised are looked into.

Might I for the first time agree with the hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt) that it would, indeed, be good to move civil servants out of London? Does the Minister agree that temporary and transient help by way of bridging loans should be given to civil servants who are asked to move? Has the Minister met the unions to discuss the matter? Is he aware that the Minister of State, Treasury will not meet the unions to talk about bridging loans? The right hon. Gentleman has given me an assurance that he is prepared to talk to the unions on the matter. Does he believe that help should be given by way of bridging loans to union members who are asked to move on public service?

First, I remind the hon. Gentleman that four out of five civil servants are now located outside Greater London and that relocation of civil servants outside London is continuing. His point about bridging loans to cover moving costs is not an easy matter, as he will understand. It is always difficult to determine when the loan should be repaid. I am sure that in any major relocation the Secretary of State and the permanent secretary of the Department involved will consider carefully whether such loans could be justified and whether they should make a case to the Treasury for such loans to be made.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

No, I will take it after the statement.