The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.
'.—(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, the Secretary of State shall not exercise any of his functions under this Act relating to pensions until he has consulted the trustees of any existing scheme (within the meaning of Schedule 10) and such other persons as may have an interest, or appear to the Secretary of State to represent persons having an interest in any existing scheme, as to the feasibility of establishing a joint industry scheme, the form such a scheme might take, and the implications for participants in existing schemes.
(2) Subsection (1) above shall not apply in any case where the trustees of a scheme have received actuarial advice that the fund may not be able to meet any of its actual or projected liabilities at any time from its actual or projected assets.'.—[Mr. Prescott.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time—
The House divided: Ayes 270, Noes 304.
Division No. 278]
| [7 13 pm
|
AYES
| |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Clapham, Michael |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Ainger, Nick | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) |
| Allen, Graham | Clelland, David |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Coffey, Ann |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Connarty, Michael |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Ashton, Joe | Corbett, Robin |
| Austin-Walker, John | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Corston, Ms Jean |
| Barnes, Harry | Cousins, Jim |
| Barron, Kevin | Cox, Tom |
| Battle, John | Cryer, Bob |
| Bayley, Hugh | Cummings, John |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Cunliffe, Lawrence |
| Beith, Rt Hon A. J. | Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) |
| Bell, Stuart | Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Dafis, Cynog |
| Bennett, Andrew F. | Dalyell, Tam |
| Benton, Joe | Darling, Alistair |
| Bermingham. Gerald | Davidson, Ian |
| Berry, Dr. Roger | Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral) |
| Betts, Clive | Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) |
| Blair, Tony | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Boateng, Paul | Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) |
| Boyce, Jimmy | Denham, John |
| Boyes, Roland | Dewar, Donald |
| Bradley, Keith | Dixon, Don |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Dobson, Frank |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Donohoe, Brian H. |
| Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) | Dowd, Jim |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Dunnachie, Jimmy |
| Burden, Richard | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Byers, Stephen | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Caborn, Richard | Eastham, Ken |
| Callaghan, Jim | Enright, Derek |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Etherington, Bill |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Evans, John (St Helens N) |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Ewing, Mrs Margaret |
| Canavan, Dennis | Fatchett, Derek |
| Cann, Jamie | Field, Frank (Birkenhead) |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Fisher, Mark |
| Flynn, Paul | McNamara, Kevin |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Madden, Max |
| Foulkes, George | Mandelson, Peter |
| Fraser, John | Marek, Dr John |
| Fyfe, Maria | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Galbraith, Sam | Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) |
| Galloway, George | Martlew, Eric |
| Gapes, Mike | Maxton, John |
| Garrett, John | Meacher, Michael |
| George, Bruce | Meale, Alan |
| Gerrard, Neil | Michael, Alun |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll Bute) |
| Godsiff, Roger | Milburn, Alan |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Miller, Andrew |
| Gordon, Mildred | Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) |
| Gould, Bryan | Molyneaux, Rt Hon James |
| Graham, Thomas | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Morley, Elliot |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Morris, Rt Hon A. (Wy'nshawe) |
| Grocott, Bruce | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Gunnell, John | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| Hain, Peter | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Hall, Mike | Mudie, George |
| Hanson, David | Murphy, Paul |
| Hardy, Peter | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire) |
| Harvey, Nick | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | O'Hara, Edward |
| Henderson, Doug | Olner, William |
| Heppell, John | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Parry, Robert |
| Hinchliffe, David | Patchett, Terry |
| Hoey, Kate | Pendry, Tom |
| Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Hood, Jimmy | Pike, Peter L. |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Pope, Greg |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Howeils, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) | Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Hoyle, Doug | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Prescott, John |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Purchase, Ken |
| Hughes, Simon (Southwark) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Hutton, John | Radice, Giles |
| Ingram, Adam | Randall. Stuart |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Raynsford, Nick |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Redmond, Martin |
| Jamieson, David | Reid, Dr John |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Rendel, David |
| Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Roche, Mrs. Barbara |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Rogers, Allan |
| Jowell, Tessa | Rooker, Jeff |
| Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald | Rooney, Terry |
| Keen, Alan | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Kennedy, Charles (Ross, C&S) | Rowlands, Ted |
| Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn) | Ruddock, Joan |
| Khabra, Piara S. | Salmond, Alex |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Sheerman, Barry |
| Leighton, Ron | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Lestor, Joan (Eccles) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Litherland, Robert | Short, Clare |
| Livingstone, Ken | Simpson, Alan |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Loyden, Eddie | Smith, C. (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Smith, Rt Hon John (M'kl'ds E) |
| McAllion, John | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Snape, Peter |
| McCartney, Ian | Soley, Clive |
| Macdonald, Calum | Spearing, Nigel |
| McFall, John | Steinberg, Gerry |
| McKelvey, William | Stevenson, George |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Stott, Roger |
| McLeish, Henry | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| McMaster, Gordon | Straw, Jack |
| Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Taylor, Matthew (Truro) | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Tipping, Paddy | Wilson, Brian |
| Turner, Dennis | Winnick, David |
| Tyler, Paul | Wise, Audrey |
| Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold | Worthington, Tony |
| Wallace, James | Wray, Jimmy |
| Walley, Joan | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Wardell, Gareth (Gower) | |
| Wareing, Robert N | Tellers for the Ayes:
|
| Watson, Mike | Mr. John Spellar and Mr. Eric Illsley.
|
| Wicks, Malcolm |
NOES
| |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Davies, Quentin (Stamford) |
| Alexander, Richard | Davis, David (Boothferry) |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Day, Stephen |
| Amess, David | Deva, Nirj Joseph |
| Ancram, Michael | Devlin, Tim |
| Arbuthnot, James | Dickens, Geoffrey |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Dicks, Terry |
| Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv) | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Ashby, David | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Dover, Den |
| Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E) | Duncan, Alan |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Duncan-Smith, Iain |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Dunn, Bob |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North) | Dykes, Hugh |
| Baldry, Tony | Eggar, Tim |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Elletson, Harold |
| Bates, Michael | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Evans, Roger (Monmouth) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Evennett, David |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Faber, David |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Fabricant, Michael |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Body, Sir Richard | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Booth, Hartley | Fishburn, Dudley |
| Boswell, Tim | Forman, Nigel |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Bowden, Andrew | Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) |
| Bowis, John | Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley) |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Freeman, Roger |
| Brandreth, Gyles | French, Douglas |
| Brazier, Julian | Fry, Peter |
| Bright, Graham | Gale, Roger |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Gallie, Phil |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Browning, Mrs. Angela | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) | Garnier, Edward |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Gill, Christopher |
| Burns, Simon | Gillan, Cheryl |
| Burt, Alistair | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Butler, Peter | Gorst, John |
| Butterfill, John | Grant, Sir Anthony (Cambs SW) |
| Carlisle, John (Luton North) | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) |
| Carttiss, Michael | Grylls, Sir Michael |
| Cash, William | Hague, William |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Churchill, Mr | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Clappison, James | Hannam, Sir John |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif) | Harris, David |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Haselhurst, Alan |
| Coe, Sebastian | Hawkins, Nick |
| Congdon, David | Hawksley, Warren |
| Conway, Derek | Hayes, Jerry |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Heald, Oliver |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Heath, Rt Hon Sir Edward |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Heathcoat-Amory, David |
| Cormack, Patrick | Hendry, Charles |
| Couchman, James | Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael |
| Cran, James | Hicks, Robert |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence L. |
| Hill, James (Southampton Test) | Ottaway, Richard |
| Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) | Page, Richard |
| Horam, John | Paice, James |
| Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Patnick, Irvine |
| Howard, Rt Hon Michael | Patten, Rt Hon John |
| Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) | Pickles, Eric |
| Hughes Robert G. (Harrow W) | Porter, Barry (Wirral S) |
| Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) | Portillo, Rt Hon Michael |
| Hunter, Andrew | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Rathbone, Tim |
| Jack, Michael | Redwood, John |
| Jackson, Robert (Wantage) | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Jenkin, Bernard | Richards, Rod |
| Jessel, Toby | Riddick, Graham |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Rifkind, Rt Hon. Malcolm |
| Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr) | Robathan, Andrew |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| Key, Robert | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Kilfedder, Sir James | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| King, Rt Hon Tom | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Knapman, Roger | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Knight, Greg (Derby N) | Sackville, Tom |
| Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Tim |
| Knox, David | Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Lamont, Rt Hon Norman | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Shersby, Michael |
| Legg, Barry | Sims, Roger |
| Leigh, Edward | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Lennox-Boyd, Mark | Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Lidington, David | Soames, Nicholas |
| Lightbown, David | Speed, Sir Keith |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) | Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) |
| Lord, Michael | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Luff, Peter | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Spring, Richard |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Sproat, Iain |
| MacKay, Andrew | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Maclean, David | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Steen, Anthony |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Stephen, Michael |
| Madel, David | Stern, Michael |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Stewart, Allan |
| Major, Rt Hon John | Streeter, Gary |
| Malone, Gerald | Sumberg, David |
| Mans, Keith | Sweeney, Walter |
| Marland, Paul | Sykes, John |
| Marlow, Tony | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel) | Taylor, John M. (Solihull) |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Mawhinney, Dr Brian | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Mellor, Rt Hon David | Thomason, Roy |
| Merchant, Piers | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Milligan, Stephen | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Mills, Iain | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Thurnham, Peter |
| Mitchell, Sir David (Hants NW) | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Moate, Sir Roger | Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Tracey, Richard |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Tredinnick, David |
| Moss, Malcolm | Trend, Michael |
| Needham, Richard | Trotter, Neville |
| Nelson, Anthony | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) | Waller, Gary |
| Norris, Steve | Ward, John |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Waterson, Nigel |
| Watts, John | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Wells, Bowen | Wolfson, Mark |
| Wheeler, Rt Hon Sir John | Wood, Timothy |
| Whitney, Ray | Yeo, Tim |
| Whittingdale, John | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Widdecombe, Ann | |
| Wiggin, Sir Jerry | Tellers for the Noes:
|
| Wilkinson, John | Mr. Sydney Chapman and Mr. Timothy Kirkhope.
|
| Willetts, David |
Question accordingly negatived.