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Circumstances In Which Shooting Is Unsafe Or Impractical

Volume 308: debated on Friday 13 March 1998

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

'A person does not commit an offence under section 1(1) if he hunts any wild mammal with dogs on land where the owner or occupier thereof reasonably considers that such hunting is necessary in order to kill, control or disperse such mammals and either:—
  • (a) because the public have rights of access thereto or such land is in close proximity to a highway or public right of way or otherwise the owner or occupier reasonably considers it unsafe to kill or control such mammals by shooting, or
  • (b) the owner or occupier of such land reasonably considers that it is impractical to kill or control such mammals by shooting.'.—[Mr. Luff.]
  • Brought up, and read the First time.

    Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—

    The House divided: Ayes 42, Noes 128.

    Division No. 211]

    [1.13 pm

    AYES

    Arbuthnot, JamesJohnson Smith, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
    Baldry, TonyLansley, Andrew
    Boswell, TimLuff, Peter
    Brooke, Rt Hon PeterLyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
    Chope, ChristopherMcIntosh, Miss Anne
    Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Rushcliffe)Maclean, Rt Hon David
    Colvin, MichaelMaginnis, Ken
    Curry, Rt Hon DavidMates, Michael
    Emery, Rt Hon Sir PeterMawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian
    Fallon, MichaelÖpik, Lembit
    Forth, Rt Hon EricPaterson, Owen
    Garnier, EdwardRobathan, Andrew
    Gill, ChristopherSt Aubyn, Nick
    Gray, JamesSpring, Richard
    Greenway, JohnStreeter, Gary
    Grieve, DominicTaylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
    Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir ArchieTyrie, Andrew
    Hawkins, NickWoodward, Shaun
    Heald, OliverYeo, Tim
    Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
    Hoey, Kate

    Tellers for the Ayes:

    Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas

    Mr. Edward Leigh and

    Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)

    Mr. Peter Atkinson.

    NOES

    Ainger, NickGibson, Dr Ian
    Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)Gilroy, Mrs Linda
    Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)Godman, Norman A
    Atkins, CharlotteGordon, Mrs Eileen
    Austin, JohnHall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
    Barnes, HarryHancock, Mike
    Benn, Rt Hon TonyHenderson, Ivan (Harwich)
    Bennett, Andrew FHill, Keith
    Bermingham, GeraldHughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
    Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)Iddon, Dr Brian
    Bradshaw, BenJackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
    Brake, TomJackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
    Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E)Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
    Buck, Ms KarenJones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
    Butler, Mrs ChristineKeen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth)
    Caplin, IvorKelly, Ms Ruth
    Casale, RogerKennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
    Cawsey, IanKing, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
    Clapham, MichaelKing, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
    Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)Lawrence, Ms Jackie
    Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)Lepper, David
    Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)Love, Andrew
    Coaker, VernonMcCabe, Steve
    Coffey, Ms AnnMcCafferty, Ms Chris
    Coleman, IainMcDonagh, Siobhain
    Cooper, YvetteMcFall, John
    Corbyn, JeremyMcIsaac, Shona
    Corston, Ms JeanMcNulty, Tony
    Cousins, JimMacShane, Denis
    Cranston, RossMallaber, Judy
    Darvill, KeithMarshall—Andrews, Robert
    Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)Martlew, Eric
    Dobbin, JimMerron, Gillian
    Dobson, Rt Hon FrankMichie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
    Dowd, JimMiller, Andrew
    Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)Moffatt, Laura
    Efford, CliveMorgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
    Etherington, BillMorley, Elliot
    Fitzpatrick, JimMountford, Kali
    Flint, CarolineMurphy, Paul (Torfaen)
    Foster, Michael J (Worcester)Naysmith, Dr Doug
    Gale, RogerNorris, Dan
    Gapes, MikeO'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
    Gardiner, BarryOlner, Bill
    Gerrard, NeilPalmer, Dr Nick
    Perham, Ms Linda

    Pickthall, ColinStinchcombe, Paul
    Pike, Peter LTaylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)
    Pollard, KerryTaylor, Sir Teddy
    Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
    Primarolo, DawnTimms, Stephen
    Prosser, GwynTipping, Paddy
    Quinn, LawrieTurner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
    Rammell, BillTwigg, Stephen (Enfield)
    Rapson, SydVis, Dr Rudi
    Raynsford, NickWalley, Ms Joan
    Ruane, ChrisWatts, David
    Russell, Bob (Colchester)Whitehead, Dr Alan
    Savidge, MalcolmWicks, Malcolm
    Sawford, PhilWinnick, David
    Sedgemore, BrianWinterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
    Shaw, JonathanWright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
    Skinner, Dennis
    Smith, Angela (Basildon)

    Tellers for the Noes:

    Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)

    Mr. John Heppell and

    Southworth, Ms Helen

    Mr. Kevin McNamara.

    Question accordingly negatived.

    On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I tried to catch your eye in the aftermath of the vote on new clause 18. I was one of those hon. Members with Northern Ireland experience who rose to speak at that stage. I make no complaint whatever about the closure, not least because the question that I wanted to ask was the last question asked by my right hon. Friend the shadow Home Secretary, but one of the consequences of your accepting the closure was that the Minister, who also rose, was unable to reply to that question. As it is a question of no little importance in the context of the Northern Ireland talks, I wonder whether, through you, I could ask the Minister to write to my right hon. Friend and place a copy in the Library.

    That is not a matter for the Chair, but perhaps the Minister has heard the right hon. Gentleman's comments.

    On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. While the Minister is reflecting on that, may I ask whether you would allow a vote on new clause 20 if it were now to be moved formally? It was selected for debate by Madam Speaker and formed part of the subject matter of our longest debate so far today.

    I know that we have already had a debate on new clause 2, but the substance of new clause 20 is different, as the former would have allowed the activities defined in the Bill to be reduced by an order of the Secretary of State, whereas the latter would simply allow the definitions to be changed if they proved inaccurate. On that basis, I think that the opinion of the House should be tested, and I wonder whether you will allow a vote.

    Order. Let me answer the point of order.

    It is for the Chair to decide whether to allow a vote, and I have decided that we will not have a vote on the matter. We must move on to the next new clause.