Skip to main content

Wales

Volume 565: debated on Wednesday 3 July 2013

The Secretary of State was asked—

Electricity Transmission Projects

The Wales Office takes a close interest in National Grid’s electricity transmission projects in Wales, and I will meet National Grid later this month to discuss them in further detail.

Western Power Distribution is consulting on routes for electricity poles linking TAN 8 area G in north Carmarthenshire to the national grid in the south of the county. Local people feel strongly that any electric cables should be underground to preserve the beauty of the Tywi valley, and are concerned that the consultation period is far too short. Will the Minister impress upon the Department of Energy and Climate Change and National Grid that such transmission projects in open Welsh countryside should be underground, and at the very least that the WPD consultation should be extended into the autumn?

These transmission projects are best dealt with case by case. The problem with a default position of saying they should always be underground is that it adds huge cost and complexity, making projects unaffordable. We want to keep the lights on in Wales, so we need infrastructure that is affordable, but I will certainly look into the specific point the hon. Gentleman raises about the consultation period with Western Power.

National Grid has proposed to construct a 40 km 400 kV line through my constituency, but the local economy depends to a significant extent on its physical beauty and tourism. Will the Secretary of State press National Grid to ensure that if it does go ahead with this monstrous proposal it will be placed entirely underground?

National Grid has already given a commitment that where possible it will use underground cabling projects in my hon. Friend’s constituency, but in my discussion with National Grid the week after next I will certainly raise the point again and come back to my hon. Friend with a fuller answer.

On electricity generation, does the Minister share my concern about the stance of Plaid Cymru and its leader Leanne Wood on new nuclear, and Wylfa B in particular, despite the £10 billion of investment and the 6,000 jobs it could bring to Ynys Môn and the wider Welsh economy?

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about many of the positions of the Plaid Cymru leader in Wales, not least on nuclear. We still do not quite know the party’s position on investment in nuclear power, but we know that project would be a huge boost to the economy of north Wales.

Has the Minister noticed some of the very fine print in the Energy Bill allowing pylons, which are already large enough, broadly speaking to be doubled in size without extra planning permission? Does he agree that that would wreck the landscape of Wales, as of England, and we ought to be extraordinarily cautious about it?

I agree with my hon. Friend that we have some unique and outstanding areas of beauty in Wales that need to be protected where possible, but, as I said in answer to an earlier question, these projects are best dealt with case by case, balancing environmental considerations with those of affordability and, of course, the views of the local communities, which should be at the heart of all planning applications.

Aviation Sector

8. What recent assessment he has made of the role and importance of the aviation sector in Wales. (162131)

The aviation sector is vital to the Welsh economy, and I was pleased to see so many Welsh businesses represented at the Paris air show last month.

Does the Secretary of State agree that the UK’s overall aviation strategy is there to support more jobs, exciting top-end engineering and ensuring we have a strong technology base in this country?

Yes, the United Kingdom aerospace industry is the second largest in the world, and is by far the largest in Europe, and it contributes some £24 billion per annum to the UK economy. The Government have set out our strategic vision for the UK’s civil aerospace sector in the aerospace industrial strategy, which includes Government investment of £2 billion over the next seven years.

Does my right hon. Friend think it is a good use of taxpayers’ money to buy Cardiff International airport?

That is entirely a matter for the Welsh Assembly Government, who have purchased it at a cost of £52 million. Clearly Cardiff does need an international airport, and I very much hope it will develop under the Welsh Government’s tutelage.

I am sure my right hon. Friend is aware of the new terminal being built at Chester Hawarden airport in the constituency of the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), which will cater for small planes carrying up to 50 passengers. What benefits does my right hon. Friend foresee for north-east Wales, and for Chester as well, from having direct flights to Cardiff, across the UK, and to continental Europe?

I was very pleased to see that a service is being developed at Hawarden airport. It will clearly be extremely important to north-east Wales and the two enterprise zones at Deeside and Wirral Waters.

At the last Welsh questions, the Secretary of State was asked whether he thought Airbus jobs would be safer if the UK was outside the EU. He failed to answer that question. Will he answer it now?

The issue of a referendum on Europe has, of course, yet to be determined. Consultation will take place with all sectors of industry, aviation included.

Constituents have visited my surgery expressing concern at the potential closure of 71 Inspection and Repair Squadron at St Athan, with the loss of 75 highly skilled jobs in the aviation sector that are based at the station there. Will the Secretary of State talk to the Ministry of Defence to explain how the defence footprint, particularly in highly skilled aviation jobs in Wales, is shrinking? Will they make sure that that does not happen?

I am, clearly, happy to raise the hon. Lady’s concerns with the MOD, but when I visited the British Airways maintenance centre at Cardiff airport only a few weeks ago I was impressed by the fact that a large number of workers there were former RAF employees.

Does the Secretary of State agree that membership of the European Union is an essential precondition of the continued success of the UK arm of Airbus?

These issues fall to be considered in the debate about whether we should have a referendum on the European Union.

M4

3. What discussions he has had with (a) his ministerial colleagues and (b) Ministers in the Welsh Government on improvements to the M4 motorway. (162126)

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues here in London and with Welsh Ministers on improvements to the M4. I am clear that the M4 is the single most important piece of transport infrastructure for the Welsh economy, and we are absolutely committed to working with the Welsh Government to deliver the funding solution required for improving that motorway.

I am grateful to the Minister for his efforts in trying to deliver improvements to the network and the M4 around Newport. It is the gateway to the south Wales economy. What reassurance can he give me that the project will go ahead this time, because it was cancelled twice by the Labour party?

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s campaigning, and the work of other Government Members, to see the improvements to the M4. He rightly points out that this project was shelved on several occasions by Welsh Ministers. I do not want to pre-empt any announcement today, but I would like to give him every reason to be optimistic that we will get a successful outcome to the discussions with the Welsh Government on this issue.

Help to relieve the traffic nightmare around Newport is vital, but will the Minister assure my constituents that any resource given to the Welsh Government will be significant enough to help deal with the big impact that any new road will have on local communities and the environment?

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise the technical challenges involved in a new relief road for the M4. She will have noted the Welsh Government announcement that they will shortly launch a consultation on the details of the scheme, which will provide her local community with every opportunity to express concerns and, we hope, get answers to their questions.

I applaud the Minister for his determination to go ahead with this much-needed project, which has been blocked so many times by members of the Labour party in the Welsh Assembly. May I also urge him to ensure that it is linked to an announcement about the future of the Severn bridge, as motorists are struggling to pay the costs of it, just a few years before it is returned to the Government?

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. As I said in answer to a previous question, I am not going to pre-empt any announcement today. I recognise the concerns of the Chairman and other members of the Select Committee about the high tolls on the Severn bridge, but we are not in a position today to make any comment on what lies beyond 2018, when the current concession comes to an end.

Spending Review

4. What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effect of the spending review on Wales. (162127)

6. What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effect of the spending review on Wales. (162129)

I have had a number of discussions with the Chancellor on the spending review. This Government are investing in Wales. The announcement of the £250-million new prison in north Wales will create much-needed jobs for the region and further boost economic growth.

Missing from the spending review was real investment in Welsh ports and Welsh infrastructure to those ports. Wales has already lost out under this Government on ports, which are the gateways to Wales. They could regenerate sectors such as energy and, thus, make places such as Holyhead world leaders. When will this Secretary of State stand up for Welsh ports and make sure that we get a level playing field for this energy development, which includes marine, tidal, onshore wind, offshore wind and nuclear power, which Plaid Cymru does not support?

I regularly visit ports across Wales and am well aware of the importance of Holyhead port to the economy. The hon. Gentleman is quite right that we need better connectivity with the ports, on which I am pressing my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, and I am raising it with the Welsh Government.

The austerity audit published in the Financial Times found that the average working Welsh adult would lose £549 a year from the cuts compared with just £470 for an adult in England. Given that, why is the lion’s share of investment in infrastructure plans in London and the south-east, with no high-speed rail to Wales and no capital investment? Will he fight for a fair share of investment as well as an unfair share of cuts?

I strongly refute the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that Wales has somehow been short-changed: the investment in railways is very significant, with electrification right through to Swansea; in north Wales, we have a new prison; and we have new nuclear on Wylfa. The hon. Gentleman should also remember that as a result of our tax changes the average taxpayer in Wales is some £750 per annum better off.

Will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State join me in welcoming the decision to protect funding for S4C in the recent spending review?

Absolutely. S4C is extremely important to the cultural life of Wales. It is the only Welsh language channel in the whole world and its value to Wales cannot be overstated.

Further to that answer, will the Secretary of State reiterate the importance of that decision for the independent television production sector in Wales, which is critical for many of our local economies?

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. The independent production sector in Wales is not only innovative but extremely important to the Welsh economy and I am sure it was very relieved by the Government’s announcement last week.

As the Secretary of State will know, total pay in Wales has fallen by 8% since 2007, one of the biggest falls in living standards in Europe. The spending review will not help the Welsh economy very much, taking a further £1 billion out of the Welsh economy—and the Labour party has now signed up to that. It is for Ynys Môn to decide whether it wants Labour cuts or Conservative cuts. Which does the Secretary of State think would be appropriate?

I will make no apologies for the way in which the Government have treated the interests of Wales since we came to power. We have seen more infrastructure investment in Wales under this Government than under 13 years of Labour and I am proud of the support we are giving to Welsh families and the Welsh economy.

The IMF—the high priests of austerity—said that the Government should cut less and start spending more on infrastructure projects. The re-announcement of HS2 last week was sort of welcome, but the cost has gone up to £50 billion. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that Wales will not be given the £2.5 billion consequential?

HS2 is a United Kingdom project and both north and mid-Wales will benefit from it. I know that the right hon. Gentleman uses the north Wales line regularly, so I presume that he will support our campaign for electrification of that route.

In the spending review, the Chancellor made a significant announcement about capital expenditure. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that we in Wales get the appropriate proportion of that capital infrastructure spend?

I believe that Wales has had more than a fair share of capital expenditure announced. Let me reiterate: the electrification of the south Wales and valley lines, the north Wales prison and the commitment to support new nuclear through guarantees.

The reality is that since 2010 the Welsh budget has been cut in real terms by £1.7 billion, or 11%, yet on Welsh television last week the Secretary of State for Wales said that Wales had “got off lightly”. I know that the right hon. Gentleman is not exactly famed across the House for his humour, but was that meant to be a joke?

Compared with the average cut across Whitehall, which was 8%, and the cut to the Wales Office budget, which was 10%, I would say that the real-terms cut of 1.9% for Wales, because of the protection of the health budget and the education budget, is a good deal.

The answer is clear: Wales is meant to be grateful for this Government’s largesse, but the reality is that on the right hon. Gentleman’s watch, the budget is down £1.7 billion, real wages are down £1,700, 3,000 more people are out of work, 35,000 people are using food banks, 33% of children in Wales are in child poverty and 400,000 people have lost their tax credits. If that is “getting off lightly”, heaven help the most vulnerable in Wales if he and his Government decide to get serious.

The hon. Gentleman is in a terrible quandary. On the one hand, he wants to support his Westminster boss and accept coalition spending cuts; on the other, he wants to obey his Cardiff boss who says, “Enough is enough”, and borrow more: one man, two guvnors.

Energy Policy

5. What discussions he has had on the effect of the Government's energy policies on the Welsh economy. (162128)

This Government’s energy reforms are designed to attract substantial investment in energy infrastructure throughout the UK, including in Wales. I believe that Wales has a key and significant role to play in meeting the challenge of creating a low-carbon energy network, fit for the 21st century.

Does the Minister agree that last week’s announcement on contracts for difference provides future certainty for all investors?

I certainly do agree. That announcement and other spending review announcements show that we are a serious Government—serious about attracting the investment that Wales and the UK need to keep the lights on and upgrade our energy networks.

How many green deal starts have there been in Wales? Will the Minister reflect on the fact that there are likely to be very few, and that businesses told him so?

I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman tries to criticise the green deal programme. We are in the early weeks of a 20-year programme that will lead to real improvements in energy efficiency and help to tackle fuel poverty in Wales. Perhaps he would like to come with me on a visit to the British Gas green deal academy in Tredegar, where he will see the value of the green deal for Wales.

It is intended that 10% of UK energy consumption will be carried across Ynys Môn and the Menai straits on pylons. At the same time, electricity from Scotland to England will not go through the Lake district, but be carried under-sea to the Wirral and across the Wirral underground. Why the difference?

As I understand the project across the Menai straits, four options are being looked at and sub-sea is one of them. I shall certainly discuss the matter with National Grid, as I recognise the significant concern, and I will follow up with the hon. Gentleman in due course.

The Welsh steel industry could have to wait yet another year for the Government to get state aid clearance for the energy-intensive industries package—a package that would not have been necessary had the Government not gone it alone and introduced such a high carbon floor price. What can the Minister do to secure interim support to prevent energy-intensive industries in Wales from being forced to run down production and lay off workers?

I and the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), recently met representatives of different industries in south and north Wales for a round table to discuss precisely that question. Those present included Tata Steel and Celsa Steel, large industrialists from south Wales, and Toyota from north Wales. We are looking at specific solutions that will keep the Welsh economy powering ahead.

Legal Aid

7. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on the effect of the Government's legal aid proposals in Wales. (162130)

I recently met my right hon. Friend the Justice Secretary to discuss matters relating to Wales, including the proposed reforms to criminal legal aid in England and Wales. I have also met Welsh representatives of the legal profession to hear their views on the proposed changes.

Research by the Monmouthshire Law Society found that law firms serving Gwent would have to make up to 15 members of staff redundant if they lost their criminal legal aid contract. Does the Minister share their belief that these changes are the final nail in high street law firms in Wales?

No, I do not. It is clear that there have to be reductions in legal aid spend, and a consultation is ongoing. Recently, my right hon. Friend the Justice Secretary made it clear that, having listened to representations, he believed that choice is important both to clients and to solicitors, and choice will be incorporated in the final proposals. [Interruption.]

Order. There are some very noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. Let us hear Mr Chris Ruane.

The legal aid cuts in my constituency will affect many of my constituents, who will also be affected by the closure of the Rhyl family court, the closure of the Rhyl Army recruitment centre, the closure of the Rhyl tax office and, on top of all that, the closure of the Crown post office. How will that help the regeneration of Rhyl?

With regard to legal aid, I can only reiterate the answer I gave the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans): the Government’s proposals are to ensure that choice is available to clients and solicitors’ firms.

EU Structural Funding

9. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on Wales of the proposal to limit the allocation of EU structural funds to those member states with a GDP per capita of less than 90% of the EU average. (162132)

In February, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister negotiated a real-terms reduction in the EU budget for the first time in its history, saving UK taxpayers an estimated £3.5 billion over the next five years. I continue to support reforms that are in the best interests of Wales and the United Kingdom as a whole.

Does my hon. Friend agree that imposing reforms in the structural funds would be a fantastic deal for European taxpayers and would enable Westminster to determine best the regional policy that would be in the best interests of Wales?

I thank my hon. Friend for that question and recognise the particular expertise she has developed in this area. We are always open to listening to new ideas for reforming European funding, but I hope that she will recognise the fantastic deal that British, Welsh and European taxpayers got as a result of the historic negotiated agreement to see a real-terms reduction in the EU budget for the very first time.

National Procurement Service

11. What assessment he has made of the effect of the Welsh Government’s national procurement service on suppliers based in England. (162134)

Public sector contracts are an important source of income for many businesses. Although I support efforts to make the procurement of public service contracts more streamlined in Wales, I do not think that should be at the expense of ensuring value for money regardless of where the supplier is located.

Small businesses in Herefordshire find it increasingly difficult to become accredited suppliers to the Welsh public sector. There is a growing tendency, and indeed a Welsh Government policy, to encourage public organisations to buy Welsh. Does the Secretary of State share my view that public organisations in Wales should not be discouraged from buying from English suppliers and that the Welsh Government should make it very clear that they cannot do so?

I trust that the new public procurement process will be driven by providing value for taxpayers’ money, irrespective of where the business is located. Part of the object of the procurement service is to develop local supply chains, and in many parts of Wales the local economy will include businesses located in England.

Will the Secretary of State applaud the work of Professor Dermot Cahill of Bangor university, who is working with others and the Welsh Government to increase the number of small and medium-sized enterprises that are now making use of procurement in Wales? Would the right hon. Gentleman not say that, in that regard, Wales is leading the way?

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but frankly the word from smaller businesses in Wales is that they are frequently precluded from bidding because of the Welsh procurement process. I hope that will change under the new arrangements.

Police and Crime Commissioners

13. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the responsibilities of police and crime commissioners in Wales. (162136)

I have discussed the responsibilities of police and crime commissioners with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. PCCs are democratically elected and accountable to the communities they serve.

Does the Secretary of State share my concern that the former chief constable of Gwent yesterday told a Select Committee of this House that she was bullied out of her job?

I heard what the former chief constable said. I want to reiterate what I said at the last Welsh Grand Committee. I have the highest possible regard for Carmel Napier. Ultimately, however, it must be for the police and crime commissioner to make that decision, and of course he is accountable to Parliament through the Home Affairs Committee.

Does the Secretary of State think that it is desirable that police and crime commissioners should in effect be able to sack police constables on a whim, as has happened in Gwent?

Clearly, the power to dismiss a chief constable is one of the statutory powers given to that officer. However, when it is exercised, the police and crime commissioner must be extremely careful to ensure that the proper procedures are adopted and, furthermore, must understand that he will be accountable to Parliament.

The evidence we heard yesterday from the chief constable was that she was called in and, out of the blue, the police and crime commissioner said that he would dismiss and humiliate her. That is an extraordinary, menacing and bullying attitude. Are police and crime commissioners the Government’s stupidest policy?

For the first time, democracy has been introduced into the policing of this country, and that must be desirable. I also heard the evidence, and no doubt the Home Affairs Committee will be reporting in due course.