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House of Lords Hansard
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24 November 1976
Volume 378

Bill, pro forma, read 1a .


The Queen's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.

3.48 p.m.

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My Lords, I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:

"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."

My Lords, naturally I deeply appreciate the honour afforded to me to move this Address, and I do so with a deep sense of responsibility. Today the Motion is of greater significance than usual as the Session ahead will include the period celebrating Her Majesty's Silver Jubilee, a period of justifiable celebration by the nation as a whole for a duty being carried out with dignity and utter devotion. Already in large and small communities preparations are going ahead for happy, if modest, schemes of celebration. In the road where I live a trial run has taken place of the street party to be held in the Jubilee year. The occasion was a party for children at the end of the summer school holiday—and I rather suspect rejoicing by hard pressed mothers—when cakes were baked, sandwiches and jellies were prepared by willing neighbours in the spirit of unity and neighbourliness. The spirit was reminiscent of the parties at the end of the war, when unity and neighbourliness was a significant part of our national life. May that spirit return during the coming year.

Your Lordships may be interested to learn that we have on the Opposition Benches a fully qualified radio ham in the presence of the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing, whose call sign is G50G, which colloquially is termed, "George Five Old Girl". I make no comment on that. But I would say that unfortunately for the Government Benches he is so active in this Chamber that amateur radio activity has had to be suspended.

In Jubilee year I shall have the honour of acting as president of the Radio Society of Great Britain, whose members have done much to advance modern methods of communication and which, through its REYNET organisation of skilled volunteers, establishes vital communications for the public services in times of emergency and disaster—a little known but vital example of voluntary service. Voluntary service to the community must be encouraged to play an increasing part in the life of the nation, particularly at this time. I have no doubt that the "good neighbour scheme" to be announced by the Secretary of State for Social Services will be widely welcome.

I am sure that we all welcome the Government pledge in the gracious Speech to continue the attack on inflation, working in close conjunction with the TUC and the CBI. Management and labour must work together in the national interest. Welcome, too, is the promise of legislation to give effect to the job release scheme and to add to that as necessary other powers for the reduction of unemployment. Unemployment is widespread, and it is the biggest social problem facing the Western democracies today. I have personal experience of unemployment during economic depression. No one can adequately put into words the feeling of utter hopelessness and despair of not being wanted. The will to work is in the hearts and minds of the great majority. Any reference to "layabouts" and "the work-shy" is merely rubbing salt into a wound that is deep and personal.

The reference in the gracious Speech to good working relationships in the National Health Service is timely, as are the references to patient care and due concern for the aspirations of the staff. The Service, which is the envy of other countries, must be removed from political ping-pong and the stifling bureaucracy which it faces today. The Government's aim to encourage expansion of home food production, mentioned in the gracious Speech, is welcome, because not enough attention has been paid in this field to reducing the import burden. The social and economic value of recreational gardening, I trust, will not be overlooked, nor will the recovery and use of waste land.

References to education and the Government's aim for the improvement of performance, I trust, will mean a return to the vital basics of reading, writing and arithmetic; that is, the foundations of a sound education. The primary use by children of the electronic calculators and other mechanical aids is no substitute. I welcome also the keynote of equality of opportunity in education. The country will await with interest and concern proposals mentioned in the gracious Speech arising from the Government's review of housing policy. Home ownership by young couples is in itself a very desirable objective, but it can be a nightmare and a delusion if accompanied by increasing mortgage interest rates and a rising burden of rate demands.

My Lords, much remains to be said about the contents of the gracious Speech, and my noble seconder will no doubt make effective further references, apart from the opportunity we shall all have of extended debates. Your Lordships' House has been under extreme pressure in the Session now ended. Our loyal and devoted staff, under great difficulty, have rendered us invaluable service with their usual courtesy and dignity. We thank them all. I would add a word of special thanks to Miss Wilson and her catering staff for their exceptional work, and also for making me an addict of tea and toasted buns! On these Benches we look forward to a period of extended life, with the hope of reduced pressure arising from the late production of complicated legislation. Freedom from legislative indigestion will be very welcome indeed.

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Hear, hear!

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My Lords, I extend good wishes for the start of the new Session to the noble Lord the Leader of the House, our extremely charming Chief Whip, and the hardworking Members of both Front Benches, not forgetting the Liberal Benches and the Cross-Benches. My Lords, I beg to move that an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty.

Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:

"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."—( Lord Wallace of Coslany.)

3.57 p.m.

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My Lords, I beg to second my noble friend's Motion for an humble Address in reply to Her Majesty's most gracious Speech. It is probably the first time that a Member of your Lordships' House is seconding the Motion for an humble Address in reply to the first gracious Speech to which he has been privileged to listen. But that is my situation, because last year I was in Jamaica receiving an honorary degree from the University of the West Indies, and so missed the gracious Speech. I was, however, privileged to be present when Her Majesty opened the Parliament of Barbados in February 1975; and as the Barbados Parliament is the second oldest Parliament in the Commonwealth, I think your Lordships may perhaps feel that I am not a totally inexperienced private. Nevertheless, I must crave your indulgence and beg your Lordships to extend to me an even greater measure of tolerance than is your wont.

May I begin by expressing thanks to the noble Lord the Leader of the House and to the Chief Whip for giving me this opportunity to speak. I should like to say how particularly happy I am to have this role at the beginning of a Session during which Her Majesty will celebrate her Silver Jubilee. I returned to this country in November 1947, just in time for Her Majesty's wedding, and my wife and I obtained much pleasure from watching the procession to and from the Abbey, in Trafalgar Square. I also have very pleasant recollections of the Coronation. On that occasion I had the best of both worlds. I watched the procession to the Abbey and then rushed home and saw the ceremony on television. Then I returned with my two older children and, with one on each shoulder, watched the procession return to the Palace. Then we joined the crowd outside the Palace, cheering Her Majesty and the other members of the Royal Family as they appeared on the balcony.

In 1974 and 1975 I was privileged to see Her Majesty at work, both at home and abroad, and to appreciate the tremendous amount of work which she does and the joy and pleasure which she brings to so many people. I well remember the happiness which she brought to the people of Barbados and the pride they felt in having her as their Queen, and how thrilled the people of Bridgetown were as she and the Duke of Edinburgh did one of their walkabouts. I understand that Her Majesty has a very heavy programme for the coming year. I am sure that your Lordships will join me in wishing her happiness and success, and also in begging those who plan her programme not to overwork her, as we should all like her to continue to reign over us for a very long time.

When I was asked to make this speech, I wondered whether it was because of my Scottish connections. As your Lordships know, I studied medicine at Edinburgh University. What you probably do not know is that I went through medical school with Robert McIntyre, the President of the Scottish National Party; that we were in the same year and were close friends. We were both active members of the Edinburgh University Socialist Society, and that society invariably controlled university parliamentary debates with the support of the Scottish Nationalists. Therefore, I have some knowledge of the Scottish Nationalists' case, and I welcome the proposals
"…for the establishment of Assemblies to give the Scottish and Welsh people direct and wide-ranging responsibilities for their domestic affairs within the economic and political framework of the United Kingdom",
as all the evidence indicates that that is what the people want. However, my knowledge of nationalist movements—and I am not without some knowledge of them—compels me to say that there is a risk; but it is a risk that must be taken.

When I was a student in Edinburgh, we frequently told the story of the Scotsman who visited London for the first time. On his return, he was asked by his friend how he liked the English, but he replied that he did not meet them because he met only the heads of departments. If that story were being told today about a Welshman, I am sure he would say that he met only the leaders of the Parliament and of London government. But the end of the Empire and the deteriorating economic situation have forced the people of Scotland and Wales to become more inward-looking, and the discovery of oil off the Scottish coast has given a new dimension to the nationalist movement. Parliament must take all these things into account. We must go as far as we dare in devolving power, remembering that all the evidence shows that while the majority of the people want greater devolution of power and authority, only a small minority want separation from England.

The Speech also commits Her Majesty's Government to legislate,
"…to provide for the election of United Kingdom members of the European Assembly".
There are, therefore, proposals for shifting power upwards as well as downwards. Then there is the proposal for industrial democracy, and also the probability that we shall have to legislate in this Session for an independent Zimbabwe. These measures will all have the effect of extending the area of influence of the people over their affairs, but they all seem to me to be challenges which also carry risks. I believe that we must accept the challenges and do everything possible to minimise the risks. I am reminded of the advice given to me by Herbert Morrison when I was elected to the London County Council in 1961. He said to me: "Be bold, but sensible". I think that that advice is something which Parliament should heed during this Session.

There are many other matters in the gracious Speech to which I should like to refer, but time is against me. I must, however, comment on the suggestion that Her Majesty's Government will pay special attention to housing and the inner city areas. If I could believe that this means that what some of us have been saying for the past 10 years to Governments of both persuasions has borne fruit, I would say that there is great joy over the sinner that repenteth. Unfortunately, the way London has been treated in the recent rate support grant distribution leads me to doubt whether the repentance is wholehearted.

Finally, my Lords, I draw attention to the two statements in the gracious Speech that,

"In all their policies for social reforms it will remain My Government's aim to promote justice and equality for all the people of the United Kingdom",
"My Government will continue to take part in international efforts to promote a stable world economic order, and a fairer distribution, within an expanding world economy, of the world's wealth between rich and poor nations".
It is in the belief that the gracious Speech will contribute to enabling us to build a model society and a better world, that I second the Motion of my noble friend for an humble Address.

4.7 p.m.

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My Lords, I beg to move that this debate be adjourned until tomorrow—and if I did not move that I should be deprived of making a speech next week, as I once was. We have had today, as we nearly always have, excellent speeches from the mover, and the seconder of the humble Address, as we certainly would have expected from those two noble Lords, both of whom have had a lifetime of experience in public life and service to the country.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, is of course a practised Parliamentarian, a former Member for Chislehurst and for Norwich, associated with a number of urban district councils, county councils, Government Whip and delegate to the Council of Europe. In fact, the only thing the noble Lord has not been is a member of the Conservative Party. His colleague Lord Pitt is, at least, ecumenical enough to live in Heath Drive, N.W.3. I had always assumed that Wallace was a Scottish name, but I can find no trace of Scottish descent in the noble Lord's ancestry. So far as I can judge, he is not one of those Wallaces whom the Scots bled with or for or about, and being English I have never quite understood what that verse was about. The noble Lord, on the contrary, was born in Cheltenham, a place I had always hitherto associated with colonels and Conservatives. He then, apparently, emigrated to Kent where he now lives. He sounds very much to me as if he is one of those unrepresentative people who come from the South of England and, apparently, are not acceptable to anybody who does not.

The noble Lord has called himself Lord Wallace of Coslany. I thought that was rather better; that might be Celtic. It might be one of those places which are pronounced differently from the way they are spelt—perhaps "Coony" or "Cany"—the kind of places that are designed to embarrass those who are not in the know about how they are pronounced. But not so. Coslany, says Who's Who, firmly and unequivocally, is in the City of Norwich. One of the noble Lord's activities outside Parliament, of which I know something, is his work for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, an organisation for which I have the profoundest admiration and with which for a short time I was associated in an honorary capacity; and I know what an amount of work he does for that. The noble Lord is interested also in allotments. He visits Malta and knows it well. The noble Lord is interested in social welfare and hospitals and, as he has told your Lordships this afternoon, he is an enthusiastic radio ham—a hobby, no doubt, which allows him to communicate with himself as he carries out this bewildering number of jobs. The noble Lord is a comparative newcomer to this House but I think that by now he knows he is a very welcome Member of it.

If it is not an unparliamentary expression, the noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead, is a very different cup of tea. No such pedestrian birthplace as Cheltenham for him. The noble Lord was born in what I dare to say, although I shall immediately be contradicted, is the most beautiful of all the West Indian islands, Grenada. Why he ever left it is beyond my comprehension, but it is greatly to the advantage of this country that he did. However, before the noble Lord arrived here he stopped off in a number of other places, such as St. Vincent, Trinidad, San Fernando. The noble Lord has much more claim, as he said, to be Scottish than the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, since he was at Edinburgh University. Your Lordships can hear to this day that he still speaks with a profound Scottish accent.

The noble Lord is known to us here more particularly as a member of the Greater London Council, which before that was the London County Council, as a doctor, as a justice of the peace and, in the very short time that he has been here, as a most respected and useful member of your Lordships' House. If the noble Lord will allow me to say so, he brings to the House that gaiety, cheerfulness and good nature which is so characteristic of the islands of his birth. Should I one day—and it is quite possible—faint with outrage and horror at some of the more iniquitous proposals of the present Government, as I regain consciousness there is nobody that I should rather see taking my pulse than the noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead. The noble Lord has been concerned not only with local government; he has a passionate identification with community relations and he is against racial discrimination. I can think of no better example to all of us of tolerance and service than the noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead.

After the pageantry of today and the preliminary skirmishings in which we are now engaged, we shall turn tomorrow to debate the economic situation. It may well be that the events of the last few weeks in this House have overshadowed the grave problems which face this country. I hope that we shall not, either as a nation or as a House, become too immersed in these next few months in devolution, in the Bullock Committee, in direct elections and the like, for, however important they are, our national survival and our national resolve to take and accept unpleasant decisions are what really matters. I think that it should be the task of your Lordships' House in these next few months, when no doubt we shall have nothing whatever to do and will then be blamed next September for not doing in two weeks what it has taken the House of Commons nine months to do, to keep this matter in the forefront of our political life.

I will make only one comment about the timetable and the events of the last eight weeks. All of us, wherever we sit, rely upon the noble Lord, Lord Peart, to see that such congestion does not recur. Parliament, and in particular your Lordships' House, is being used as a factory for turning out imperfect legislation. The test and success of a Government is not the amount of legislation which they rush through an unwilling, a bemused and an overworked legislature. If the noble Lord fails, then we shall rely on ourselves. And that is a promise.

In the meantime, with the pressure relaxed, with good temper, if ever it was lost, restored, with a splendid start to the new Session in the speeches of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, and the noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead, we shall go on. Threatened with extinction, reviled by Mr. Foot, abused by Mr. Wedgwood Benn, abhorred by the Scottish Nationalists, prodded by the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, and agreeably and ably led by the noble Lord, Lord Peart, we shall continue to do our job in what may, at any rate, be for a time our usual obscurity.

4.15 p.m.

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My Lords, I beg to support the Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and on behalf of my colleagues and myself to add my congratulations to the mover and seconder of the humble Address on the manner in which they have acquitted themselves today. I knew the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, in the other place immediately after the war. We were all impressed by the breadth of his knowledge and the width of his interests, particularly in the health and voluntary services. As Liberal Whip I came across him a good deal, of course, in those days.

The noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead, is a splendid acquisition for your Lordships' House. He completely belies some of the epithets which have been applied to Members of this House in recent weeks. There is nothing decrepit about the noble Lord. There is no sign of the senile or the geriatric in him. One of the most remarkable characteristics of the noble Lord is, as the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, mentioned, his pervasive cheerfulness and his engaging and ever-present smile. How he manages to keep up that happy spirit and still remain a member of the Labour Party at the present time absolutely beats me. It is a great gift. I should have thought that the demeanour of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, was more representative of the Labour Governmentin mid-term. However, we thank both noble Lords for their distinguished and thoughtful contributions today.

Last year the noble Baroness, Lady Phillips, in moving the humble Address, pointed out that we had had far too much legislation in the 1974/75 Session. I agreed with her as, indeed, did many Members of this House, yet the same mistake was made in the Session which has just ended. I despair of modern Government. It seems to have become the accepted practice that the legislative programme has to exceed by a substantial margin the volume of the legislation in the previous Session. Last year I pointed out that it is not so much the amount of business that we have to transact in both Houses that is the subject of complaint as that we are inflicting on the nation far more new laws than can properly be digested. The result is that administrators, local government officials, civil servants, business men, professional people and others are all finding that more and more of their time is being consumed in trying to keep up with this legislative sausage machine. I think that the same mistake is going to be made in this Session, too. I cannot believe that we shall be able to do justice to everything which is outlined in the gracious Speech and I should have thought that there was a strong case for cutting out some of the legislation that is included in it.

I hope, too, that in this Session, which is the third since the last General Election, we shall hear far less in British politics about the theory of the mandate, the theory of the Manifesto, the theory that the electorate have instructed the Government to take certain measures. We have to recognise that the economic and political climate today is totally different from that which existed in the early part of 1974. I hope that this fact will be recognised in the measures which come before us this Session. We have to realise that anything which was pledged then is liable to be totally out of date against today's background.

I congratulate the Government for seeing sense now and not going ahead, in this Session at least, with the wealth tax and other legislation, such as the nationalisation of the ports, which was included in the out of date Manifesto. This shows great sense and I hope that it is a turn for the best. I plead with the Government not to embark upon irrelevant and expensive measures in the coming months. Our major occupation must be to get down inflation, to reduce unemployment, to increase productivity and to arrest the decline in the real standard of living of our people. To achieve this we do not need a great deal of legislation and, in my view, if we get less legislation it will be better for the nation. My Lords, I have great pleasure in supporting this Motion.

4.20 p.m.

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My Lords, I am pleased to support the Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and supported by the noble Lord, Lord Byers. Like them I can join in warmly congratulating the mover and seconder of the humble Address for the notable speeches which they made. When I invited my two noble friends to speak today I knew that they would live up to my high expectations. They have both earned a reputation for long and loyal service to the public and to the Labour Party.

If I may refer to my noble friend Lord Wallace of Coslany, of course he is an old friend of mine from another place and it may have come as something of a surprise to him to be moving the humble Address after so many years in Parliament. But it is never too late to start something new. Some of his achievements have already been mentioned and I think that he himself would put his service to Regional Health Authorities at the head of the list.

I applaud this but I hope he will forgive me if I refer to one of his interests which is nearer to my own heart, and was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and that is his fascination with allotments. In fact I wonder whether he has recently taken to writing a diary under the name "PHS". He has gained a great band of followers among my noble friends who, I understand, through the year have been eating Wallace tomatoes and Wallace cabbages and other produce suited to hardy perennials like us. If he ever loses his taste for this place I shall be suggesting he teams up with our supplier of cucumbers, my noble friend Lady Stedman.

I am glad that he was a Member for Norwich because Norwich, after Durham, is my favourite city. Perhaps I may just quickly say to noble Lords opposite that I was once a young artillery officer on Mousehold Heath the night of a Baedeker raid which partly destroyed Norwich. I shall never forget that night. I saw Norwich, as I thought, burning, but the next morning it was remarkable how the citizens adapted themselves and how they removed the damage. I think Norwich and East Anglia is a wonderful area, and I am sure they will be very proud that my noble friend has, through his title, kept his connection with that area.

I am also delighted that my noble friend Lord Pitt of Hampstead is here. Mention has been made of Grenada and I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, that that is a lovely island—but what lovely women! A previous Miss World came from Grenada. What fine people they are, the men and women. How anyone could leave that area and go to Scotland amazes me, and I hope my Scottish friends will not mind my saying that as a Border Englishman. I am delighted that my noble friend is here to second the Motion so vigorously. I know he will not mind my saying that I was delighted to see him here; I believe that when he was at the GLC all the clocks were kept permanently fast as part of a campaign to make him punctual. Perhaps unlike the white rabbit he has made better use of time than simply worrying about it. I feel confident that I can always rely on my noble friend. I recall a famous Prime Minister and a namesake of his who was so thin that he became known as the "bottomless Pitt". My noble friend Lord Pitt is of course profound if not exactly bottomless, but I would be absolutely sure of his ability to bounce back out of any difficulty, however deep. He would do it smiling, too.

Noble Lords who have already spoken have of course mentioned the Session we have just finished. I am not going to pursue their arguments today. We shall have plenty of opportunity for debate later. I can sympathise with this and we are all looking to a slightly more tranquil time than of late. However I should not like to dwell on the less agreeable parts of last Session. On the contrary, I can show that a promise, made by my noble friend Lord Shepherd at this time last year, was fulfilled to a large extent. He wanted to get a rather better balance of Bills between the two Houses and, though your Lordships may by now have forgotten this, the Government did introduce no fewer than 26 programme Bills here last Session as against 35 in another place.

The Government take seriously the need to spread legislation evenly between the two Houses and would hope always to manage business in a sympathetic and efficient way. Indeed, we would probably never have been in the situation we found ourselves in during the spillover if it had not been for the repercussions of a little local difficulty in another place last Whitsun. I believe this was connected with the absence in Copenhagen of a Member of another place who was negotiating on this country's behalf with the other members of the EEC. I am told that the Member, who was called Peart, is now on another mission, looking after (I hope) the interests of Her Majesty's Government elsewhere.

During this Session, as the House will have noticed in the gracious Speech, a smaller legislative programme than usual is forecast. With this advantage it may be that we can recall the spirit of quiet and considered debate which marks all the best of your Lordships' deliberations. I might, for instance, draw attention to a reference in the gracious Speech to the introduction of a Bill to amend the criminal law, particularly in relation to conspiracy, and to improve its administration. This is an important Bill which I hope will be before the House soon and to which we can give a great deal of informed and detailed discussion.

If this means that we lose the attention of the gentlemen in the Press Gallery which has been so marked over recent weeks, we may regret it but it is not necessarily something which should disappoint us. Much of our work is not newsworthy and I have already noticed the newspapers slipping back into old habits. In a major newspaper on Monday I saw this headline:
"Busy Session ahead for Commons".
I am looking forward to a busy Session here as well, but we will all want to see that "Business" is more moderate than of late, and I have taken note of what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Byers, and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington.

I am very proud to be the Leader of this House. I dislike people in another place threatening this House. There is no question about that, because I believe that all noble Members of this House make a major contribution to our democratic life. Looking ahead, noble Lords will realise that Christmas is not far away and I am afraid that the late Opening of Parliament makes it likely that we shall have to sit well into Christmas week. I assure your Lordships, however, that, so far as we can, we shall bear in mind the burden of recent weeks in planning the programme after Christmas.

One of the probable features of this Session which I support is the development of work in the Scrutiny Committee on the European Communities. A start was made last Session on joint scrutiny with another place, and the House will be able to debate one of the Committees' joint reports—on VAT—in a fortnight's time.

It may be that joint scrutiny has had its teething troubles. It is not easy for two Committees with different methods of work to meet together, but I welcome the fact that concurrent work is going to begin soon on the Regional Development Fund of the EEC, and I am sure that this is an arrangement which makes sense. We shall get the benefit of one set of recommendations from the two Committees; and the interested bodies, including the Government, can give their evidence once and not twice. Each House will contribute its own special expertise to the final report.

As for the other Committees, I shall be asking the House tomorrow to set up the Select Committee on Commodity Prices, again in line with the recommendation of their interim report last week. I am waiting with great interest to see what report comes out of this Committee and I know that it will be a well-considered and worthwhile document. Perhaps when we have judged the reaction to this report we can discuss what opportunities there are for further developments in the Select Committee field.

Finally, I want to refer to the Queen's Jubilee, which other noble Lords have mentioned. In this Session, when we celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Queen's accession, both Houses of Parliament will want to mark the Jubilee in a fitting way. For this purpose, it is proposed that both Houses should meet in Westminster Hall on 4th May 1977 to present Addresses to Her Majesty. I am confident that your Lordships will join me in welcoming this opportunity to express our loyalty and duty to Her Majesty, and to give her our good wishes for a long and prosperous reign.

Having said that, I would like once again to congratulate the Mover and Seconder, and without anticipating the speeches that will be made on the Address in the coming days, I am sure that the House will now again get down to the business of a new Session with its usual moderation and good sense.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly until tomorrow.