asked Her Majesty's Government:To update details of the totals of United Kingdom defence expenditure over each of the last 10 years, at 1977 prices.

The following table shows defence expenditure over the last 10 years at 1977 Survey prices. The figures for 1976–77 and 1977–78 represent defence budget Estimates provision, and those for the earlier years the out-turn of the defence budget.

	£m
1968–69	6,957
1969–70	6,555
1970–71	6,528
1971–72	6,573
1972–73	6,506
1973–74	6,415
1974–75	6,164
1975–76	6,447
1976–77	6,544
1977–78	6,329

asked Her Majesty's Government:What capabilities and responsibilities respectively are now possessed by the Secretaries of State for the Environment and Transport which were not possessed in sum on the 1st July 1970 by the then Ministers of Housing and Local Government, of Transport, and of Public Buildings and Works; which responsibilities previously discharged by the Ministers of Housing and Local Government, of Transport, and of Public Buildings and Works have now been devolved to other agencies.

Since 1st July 1970 additional powers and responsibilities have been conferred on one or other of the Secretaries of State by the following enactments:

• Highways Act 1971,
• Local Government Act 1972,
• Harbours (Loans) Act 1972,
• Field Monuments Act 1972,
• Deposit of Poisonous Waste Act 1972,
• Housing Finance Act 1972,
• Local Government Act 1972,
• Land Compensation Act 1973,
• Railways Act 1974,
• Harbours Act 1974,
• Town and Country Amenities Act 1974,
• Control of Pollution Act 1974,
• Road Traffic Act 1974,
• Housing Act 1974,
• Community Land Act 1975,
• Conservation of Wild Creatures and Wild Plants Act 1975,
• Housing Rent and Subsidies Act 1975,
• Mobile Homes Act 1975,
• Endangered Species (Import and Export) Act 1976,
• Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976,
• Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976,
• Minibus Act 1977,
• Housing (Homeless Persons) Act 1977.

The United Kingdom's accession to the European Economic Community has conferred additional powers and responsibilities on both Secretaries of State. Finally, the Secretary of State for the Environment has assumed special responsibility for co-ordination of work on inner city policy.Since 1st July 1970 there have been transferred to the Department of the Environment (1) the Central Unit on Environmental Pollution, formerly in the Cabinet Office; (2) the defence lands organisation, formerly part of the Ministry of Defence and now incorporated in the Property Services Agency; (3) various responsibilities for nature conservation work formerly with other Government Departments; (4) responsibility for the Development Fund and the Development Commission which formerly lay with Her Majesty's Treasury. Also since that date the Department of Transport has taken over from local authorities responsibility for driver and vehicle licensing.Certain responsibilities have been transferred to other agencies. In particular (1) there has been a relaxation of a number of ministerial controls over local authorities; (2) certain responsibilities relating to the water industry have been devolved to other bodies under the Water Act 1973; (3) responsibility for certain housing work has been transferred to the Housing Corporation. If my noble friend wishes to have further information on points of particular interest to him, I shall be pleased to supply it on hearing from him.

asked Her Majesty's Government:How many staff (national, regional and overseas) were employed on the 1st July 1970 by the then Ministries of Housing and Local Government, of Transport, and of Public Buildings and Works; and how many were employed at the most recently convenient date by the Departments of the Environment (including the Property Services Agency), and of Transport.

For 1970, figures for 1st July are not available: those for 1st January are quoted instead. Industrial and non-industrial civil servants in post on the dates shown were:—

	1.1.70	1.10.77
		41,856*	Property Services Agency
Ministry of Public Buildings and Works	56,892*†
		6,744†‡	Department of the Environment (Central)
Ministry of Housing and Local Government	4,726
		6,612	Departmental Regional Offices and Common Services
Ministry of Transport	9,162	7,117‡	Department of Transport (excluding DVL)
		7,607	Driver and Vehicle Licensing
Totals	70,780	69,936

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether SS "Free Enterprise VIII" left the port of Dover in Force 9 and 10 gales on 12th November with 398 live sheep and 327 live calves en route for slaughter in Europe.

Yes, except that these animals were exported for further rearing and not for slaughter. I understand that the ship's master decided that no injury or suffering was likely to be caused to the animals by the bad weather and that the Department has since been informed that all the animals arrived safely and there have been no complaints about their condition on arrival from the veterinary inspectors at the port of disembarkation.

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether they are aware that in cases in which persons in several employments take on additional employment, the Department of Health and Social Security makes a practice of instructing the Inland Revenue to make deductions from the remuneration which they receive in that additional employment in respect of National Insurance contributions without first ascertaining whether the person concerned is not already in respect of his other employment paying the maximum National Insurance contribution prescribed by law; whether they will direct the Department to stop this practice; and whether in all cases where this has been done and as a result contributions have been unlawfully deducted, they will direct that these be refunded forthwith with interest.

There is a statutory liability for the payment to the Inland Revenue of Class 1 earnings-related contributions in respect of an employed earner's employment where earnings reach the lower earnings limit, currently £15 a week (or the equivalent for a person paid otherwise than weekly). The employer may recover the employee's contribution by deduction from current earnings. Where a person has multiple employments and in one or a combination of them expects to pay at least 52 contributions at the maximum rate he can avoid excess payments by applying either to pay in advance the maximum liability or for deferment of his contributions in his other employments. Where deferment is granted the Department of Health and Social Security instructs the appropriate employers not to pay the employee's contributions in respect of his employment with them.When a person takes an additional employment the Department cannot grant deferment, if otherwise appropriate, until an application is made and the necessary details are provided. In the absence of a certificate of deferment or advance payment, contributions will be lawfully deducted by the employer. The Department has made great efforts to publicise these arrangements for the deferment or advance payment of contributions in the interests of both the individual and the Department.

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether they will reconsider their decision not to allow Army personnel on fire-fighting duties to use breathing apparatus even where there are soldiers fully trained in its use, and where such apparatus is available outside fire stations and where its use would be supervised by senior fire officers.

The decision was based on the grave risks to Servicemen with no previous experience in firefighting of attempting to use breathing apparatus in the dangerous environment close to the seat of the fire. While it is a comparatively simple matter to learn how to use the apparatus it takes a period of months to learn how to avoid the dangers of using it within a burning or smoke-filled building. These considerations still hold good. There are, however, specialist RN and RAF firemen, equipped with breathing apparatus and fully trained to use it, who have been deployed in the major conurbations.

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether they will reconsider their decision, implicit in their answers to two recent Questions for Written Answer (cols. 1347 and 1453), not to draw the attention of the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office to the interview on France-Inter radio in February 1974 of the then French Minister of Defence M. Robert Galley about unidentified flying objects by M. Jean-Claude Bourret which is transcribed in his book

The Ministry of Defence are endeavouring to obtain an official transcript of the interview said to have taken place on France-Inter radio in February 1974.

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether the Government have yet decided whether to sign the two additional protocols to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 which were adopted at the Humanitarian Law Conference in June of this year; and if he will make a Statement.

The two protocols were opened for signature on 12th December 1977. Protocol I relates to the protection of victims of international armed conflicts and Protocol II to the protection of victims of non-international armed conflicts. Signature of both Protocols on behalf of the United Kingdom took place on 12th December.The Government consider that, overall, the two protocols mark a valuable advance in humanitarian law applicable in armed conflicts. In Protocol I we particularly welcome the increased protection for the sick and wounded and for medical aircraft; the improved arrangements for information on persons reported missing; the protection of the civilian population against direct attack, and the new provisions on implementation and enforcement both of the protocol and the Geneva Conventions. Protocol II provides the minimum standards of conduct to be observed by both sides in civil wars, a field previously covered only by a single Article in each of the four 1949 Geneva Conventions. We welcome the fundamental guarantees provided by Protocol II, in relation to e.g. accused and detained persons, protection of the wounded and sick and medical personnel and protection of the civilian population.The United Kingdom's signature of the protocols was accompanied by formal declarations on various points, of which copies have been placed in the Library of the House. Almost without exception, these reflect statements made by the United Kingdom at the Conference which are already part of the negotiating history. The most significant of them concern the scope of application of the protocols. First, as with several recent international conventions, the Government have considered it necessary to reserve the right not to apply the protocols in relation to Southern Rhodesia unless and until they are in a position to ensure that the obligations of the protocols in respect of that territory can be fully implemented. Secondly, we have confirmed the understanding upon which we took part in the negotiations, that the new rules introduced by Protocol I were not intended to have any effect on and did not regulate or prohibit the use of nuclear weapons.Thirdly the provisions of Protocol I, including that on prisoner of war status for irregular fighters, apply only to international armed conflict, which are now so defined by the protocol as to include certain self-determination conflicts. The Government have considered it desirable in this connection to place formally on record by means of an interpretative declaration their understanding of the meaning of the term "armed conflict", which implies a high level of intensity of military operations, and their understanding of the requirements to be fulfilled by any national liberation movement which sought to invoke the protocol. Neither in Northern Ireland nor in any other part of the United Kingdom is there a situation which meets the criteria laid down for the application of either protocol. Nor is there any terrorist organisation operating within the United Kingdom which fulfils the requirements which a national liberation movement must meet in order to be entitled to claim rights under Protocol I. There is therefore no question of any of the provisions of either protocol benefiting the IRA or any others who may carry out terrorist activities in peacetime.The protocols will not become binding upon the United Kingdom unless and until the signature is ratified. The Government intend to move towards ratification in due course. Legislation will be required to implement certain provisions of Protocol I, as it was for the Geneva Conventions themselves.

asked Her Majesty's Government:Whether they will make a Statement about the Town and Country Planning General Development (Amendment) Order 1977.

My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is arranging for the order to be withdrawn. The Government will shortly be presenting to Parliament the response to the Eighth Report of the Expenditure Committee: Planning Procedures. He intends to consider further the provisions of the general development order in the light of reactions to that response.House adjourned at four minutes before eight o'clock.