My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will extend to prisons in England, Scotland and Wales the changes in prison rules which have been made in Northern Ireland.
My Lords, there are no plans at present to introduce in England and Wales or in Scotland the arrangements that have been made in Northern Ireland but the Home Secretary and the Secretary of State for Scotland will be studying developments in Northern Ireland to see what lessons can be learned for the other prison systems in the United Kingdom.
My Lords, while welcoming that Answer may I ask this question specifically: Is it not the case that in Northern Ireland on 19th December the following changes were announced and will they be applied to prisons in the rest of Britain: (1) civilian clothing during working hours; (2) eight letters, four parcels and four visits each month; (3) association in the evenings and at weekends and (4) work suited to the prisoner with vocational and educational treatment? Will those changes be extended to Britain?
My Lords, in his Question the noble Lord makes it sound as though in Northern Ireland civilian clothes can be worn and in Great Britain they are not allowed. The situation is not quite so clear cut as that. In Northern Ireland convicted prisoners can during working hours, as a result of the change which the noble Lord has recorded, now wear civilian type clothes issued by the prison. In England and Wales and in Scotland a standard range of clothing is issued, though in England and Wales long-term prisoners in dispersal prisons may wear certain items of personal clothing. So I do not think we are as far apart in the two systems as has been suggested.
The noble Lord then mentioned a whole list of other matters. Arrangements vary considerably according to régimes and resources, but for most long-term prisoners the practice in relation to the matters which the noble Lord has mentioned is broadly comparable to that in Northern Ireland.My Lords, will my noble friend make sure that where the conditions make it possible—that is the buildings and other conditions—the same sort of régime is applied in the rest of the United Kingdom to that which applies in Northern Ireland? Will the Government in fact make it apply? Is he aware that, if they do not make it apply, many people in prisons in Northern Ireland who have been convicted of crimes that they think could be classified as political, will consider that they have political status and that is a most dangerous state of affairs?
My Lords, my noble friend's question is interesting because he has put his finger on the point of the prison accommodation; but if I may say so, that is a rather different criterion, which leads to a continuing difference between England and Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland in this matter. The different arrangements in Northern Ireland rely partly on the fact that there is a difference in scale. In Northern Ireland there are more long-term prisoners whereas in Great Britain there are many more short-term prisoners. This is one of the factors (and I will not go into it further) which lead to the differences in the arrangements for those prisons at the moment still being in existence.