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Lords Amendment

Volume 670: debated on Thursday 10 March 2005

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33 Insert the following new clause—


This Act and any order made under it shall by virtue of this section cease to have effect on 30th November 2005."

The Commons disagree with the Lords in its amendment bat propose the following amendments in lieu

33A Page 12, line 37, at end insert the following new Clause—

"Duration of ss. 1 to 6

  • (1) Except so far as otherwise provided under this section, sections of 12 months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.
  • (2) The Secretary of State may, by order made by statutory instrument—
  • (a) repeal sections
  • (b) at any time revive those sections for a period not exceeding one year; or
  • (c) provide that those sections—
  • (i) are not to expire at the time when they would otherwise expire under subsection (1) or in accordance with an order under this subsection; but
  • (ii) are to continue in force after that time for a period not exceeding one year.
  • (3) No order may be made by the Secretary of State under this section unless a draft of it has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House.
  • (4) Subsection (3) does not apply to an order that contains a declaration by the Secretary of State that the order needs, by reason of urgency, to be made without the approval required by that subsection.
  • (5) An order under this section that contains such a declaration—
  • (a) must be laid before Parliament after being made; and
  • (b) if not approved by a resolution of each House before the end of 40 days beginning with the day on which the order was made, ceases to have effect at the end of that period.
  • (6) Where an order ceases to have effect in accordance with subsection (5), that does not—
  • (a) affect anything previously done in reliance on the order; or
  • (b) prevent the making of a new order to the same or similar effect.
  • (7) Where sections prevent or otherwise affect—
  • (a) the court's consideration of a reference made before that time under subsection (3)(a) of section (Supervision by court of making of non-derogating control orders);
  • (b) the holding or continuation after that time of any hearing in pursuance of directions under subsection (2)(c) or (6)(b) or (c) of that section;
  • (c) the holding or continuation after that time of a hearing to determine whether to confirm a derogating control order (with or without modifications); or
  • (d) the bringing or continuation after that time of any appeal, or further appeal, relating to a decision in any proceedings mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (c) of this subsection;
  • but proceedings may be begun or continued by virtue of this subsection so far only as they are for the purpose of determining whether a certificate of the Secretary of State, a control order or an obligation imposed by such an order should be quashed or treated as quashed.

  • (8) Nothing in this Act about the period for which a control order is to have effect or is renewed enables such an order to continue in force after the provision under which it was made or last renewed has expired or been repealed by virtue of this section.
  • (9) In subsection (5) "40 days" means 40 days computed as provided for in section 7(1) of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 (c. 36)."
  • 33B Page 13, line 1, leave out "every relevant 12 month period" and insert—

    "() the period of 12 months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed, or

    () every period specified in an order under section (Duration of ss.) as a period for which those sections are revived or continued in force,"

    33C Page 13, leave out lines 16 to 18 and insert—

    "() the period of 3 months beginning with the passing of this Act;

    () a period of 3 months beginning with a time which—

  • (i) is the beginning of a period for which sections an order under section (Duration of ss.); and
  • (ii) falls more than 3 months after the time when those sections were last in force before being revived;
  • () a 3 month period which begins with the end of a previous relevant 3 month period and is a period during the whole or a part of which those sections are in force."

    My Lords, I beg to move Motion D, that the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 33 but do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof.

    I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, for allowing me to move my Motion. Of course, I would be very happy if he just accepted my Motion and did not move his amendment. I do not know whether that is why he rose to his feet.

    Motion D is found on page 24 of the Marshalled List. I spoke to it during debate on Motion C. Moved, That the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 33 but do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof.—(Baroness Scotland of Asthal.)

    had given notice of his intention to move Amendment D1, as an amendment to the Motion that the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 33, but do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof, to leave out from "House" to end and insert "do insist on its Amendment No. 33 and do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof".

    The noble Lord said: My Lords, in the light of the statement made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, in response to my question posed just before we took the previous vote, I shall not move Amendment D1.

    [Amendment D1, as an amendment to Motion D, not moved.]

    moved, as an amendment to Motion D, Amendment D2:

    Leave out from "33," to end and insert "do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof, and do propose Amendment No. 33D in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 33".

    33D Insert the following new Clause—


    This Act and any order made under it shall by virtue of this section cease to have effect on 31st March 2006."

    The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I wish to move Amendment D2 standing in my name. In so doing, I make it perfectly clear that I wish no message of support for terrorists, or a lack of commitment to fighting terrorism.

    One of the reasons I support control orders is that a year ago, in this House, I was saying how uncomfortable I was with Part 4 of the Act, because it did not deal with the threat from UK citizens who might be involved in terrorism. That is why I support control orders. They give a greater degree of protection to the citizens of this country.

    I believe, however, that while we have improved the Bill—it is better than it was—it is not the best that Parliament can do. Parliament should be given the opportunity to do better in a reasonable period of time. The amendment in my name gives us that reasonable period of time, and I beg to test the opinion of the House.

    Moved, As an amendment to Motion D, Amendment D2: Leave out from "33", to end and insert "do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33A to 33C in lieu thereof, and do propose Amendment No. 33D in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 33.— (Baroness Hayman.)

    2.24 p.m.

    On Question, Whether the said amendment (D2) shall be agreed to?

    Their Lordships divided: Contents, 250; Not-Contents, 100.

    Division No. 3


    Ackner, L.Fookes, B.
    Addington, L.Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
    Alderdice, L.Fowler, L.
    Allenby of Megiddo, V.Freeman, L.
    Ampthill, L.Garden, L.
    Anelay of St Johns, B.Gardner of Parkes, B.
    Arran, E.Garel-Jones, L.
    Ashcroft, L.Gavron, L.
    Astor, V.Geddes, L.
    Astor of Hever, L.Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
    Avebury, L.Glasgow, E.
    Baker of Dorking, L.Glenarthur, L.
    Ballyedmond, L.Glentoran, L.
    Barker, B.Goodhart, L.
    Beaumont of Whitley, L.Gordon of Strathblane, L.
    Bell, L.Goschen, V.
    Best, L.Greaves, L.
    Bledisloe, V.Greengross, B.
    Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.Greenway, L.
    Boothroyd, B.Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
    Bowness, L.Hamwee, B.
    Bradshaw, L.Hanham, B.
    Bramall, L.Hanningfield, L.
    Bridgeman, V.Harris of Richmond, B.
    Bridges, L.Haskins, L.
    Brittan of Spennithorne, L.Hayhoe, L.
    Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.Hayman, B. [Teller]
    Brougham and Vaux, L.Henley, L.
    Buscombe, B.Higgins, L.
    Byford, B.Hilton of Eggardon, B.
    Cameron of Lochbroom, L.Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
    Campbell of Alloway, L.Hogg, B.
    Carlisle of Bucklow, L.Home, E.
    Carrington, L.Hooper, B.
    Chalker of Wallasey, B.Hooson, L.
    Chorley, L.Howard of Rising, L.
    Clement-Jones, L.Howe, E.
    Clinton-Davis, L.Howe of Aberavon, L.
    Cobbold, L.Howe of Idlicote, B.
    Cohen of Pimlico, B.Hurd of Westwell, L.
    Colwyn, L.Hylton, L.
    Cope of Berkeley, L.James of Holland Park, B.
    Courtown, E.Jenkin of Roding, L.
    Craigavon, V.Joffe, L.
    Crathorne, L.Judd, L.
    Crickhowell, L.Kalms, L.
    Cuckney, L.Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
    Dahrendorf, L.Kerr of Kinlochard, L.
    Darcy de Knayth, B.Kimball, L.
    Dean of Harptree, L.Kingsland, L.
    Dearing, L.Knight of Collingtree, B.
    Denham, L.Laing of Dunphail, L.
    Dholakia, L.Laird, L.
    Dixon-Smith, L.Lamont of Lerwick, L.
    Donaldson of Lymington, L.Lang of Monkton. L.
    D'Souza, B.Lewis of Newnham, L.
    Dykes, L.Linklater of Butterstone, B.
    Eccles of Moulton, B.Listowel, E.
    Eden of Winton, L.Liverpool, E.
    Elis-Thomas, L.Livsey of Talgarth, L.
    Elles, B.Lloyd of Berwick, L.
    Elliott of Morpeth, L.Ludford, B.
    Falkland, V.Luke, L.
    Falkner of Margravine, B.Lyell, L.
    Fearn, L.McColl of Dulwich, L.
    Feldman, L.McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
    Ferrers, E.Mackie of Benshie, L.
    Finlay of Llandaff, B.Maclennan of Rogart, L. [Teller]

    McNally, L.Ryder of Wensum, L.
    Maddock, B.St John of Fawsley, L.
    Maginnis of Drumglass, L.Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
    Mallalieu, B.Sandberg, L.
    Mancroft, L.Sandwich, E.
    Mar and Kellie, E.Scott of Needham Market, B.
    Marlesford, L.Seccombe, B.
    Mayhew of Twysden, L.Selborne, E.
    Michie of Grallanach, B.Selkirk of Douglas, L.
    Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.Selsdon, L.
    Miller of Hendon, B.Sharp of Guildford, B.
    Monro of Langholm, L.Sharples, B.
    Monson, L.Shaw of Northstead, L.
    Montrose, D.Sheldon, L.
    Moore of Lower Marsh, L.Shutt of Guildford, B.
    Moore of Wolvercote, L.Slim, V.
    Moran, L.Smith of Clifton, L.
    Morgan, L.Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
    Morris of Bolton, B.Southwell, Bp.
    Morris of Manchester, L.Stern, B.
    Moser, L.Stewartby, L.
    Mowbray and Stourton, L.Stoddart of Swindon, L.
    urton of Lindisfarne, L.Stone of Blackheath, L.
    Naseby, L.Strathclyde, L.
    Neuberger, B.Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
    Newby, L.Swinfen, L.
    Newton of Braintree, L.Taverne, L.
    North bourne, L.Tenby, V.
    Northesk, E.Thatcher, B.
    Northover, B.Thomas of Gresford, L.
    Norton of Louth, L.Thomas of Walliswood, B.
    Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.Thomson of Monifieth, L.
    O'Cathain, B.Tombs, L.
    Onslow, E.Tope, L.
    Oppenheim-Barnes, B.Tordoff, L.
    Park of Monmouth, B.Trefgarne, L.
    Perry of Southwark, B.Trumpington, B.
    Peyton of Yeovil, L.Turnberg, L.
    Phillips of Sudbury, L.Turner of Camden, B.
    Plant of Hightield, L.Ullswater, V.
    Plumb, L.Vallance of Tummel, L.
    Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.Waddington, L.
    Prys-Davies, L.Wade of Chorlton, L.
    Quirk, L.Wakeham, L.
    Rawlings, B.Walker of Worcester, L.
    Razzall, L.Wallace of Saltaire, L.
    Redesdale, L.Walmsley, B.
    Rennard, L.Walpole, L.
    Renton, L.watson of Richmond, L.
    Richardson of Calow, B.Weatherill, L.
    Rix, L.Whitaker, B.
    Roberts of Conwy, L.Wilcox, B.
    Roberts of Llandudno, L.Williamson of Horton, L.
    Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.Windlesham, L.
    Roper, L.Winston, L.
    Rotherwick, L.Wright of Richmond, L.
    Russell-Johnston, L.Young of Hornsey, B.


    Amos, B. (Lord President of theCarter, L.


    Christopher, L.
    Andrews, B.Clarke of Hampstead, L.
    Ashton of Upholland, B.Crawley, B.
    Bach, L.David, B.
    Bassam of Brighton, L.Davies of Coity, L.
    Bernstein of Craigweil, L.Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
    Bhattacharyya, L.Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
    Billingham, B.Desai, L.
    Blood, B.Dixon, L.
    Borrie, L.Drayson, L.
    Bragg, L.Dubs, L.
    Brett, L.Evans of Parkside, L.
    Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
    Brookman, L.Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
    Campbell-Savours, L.

    Falconer of Thoroton, L. (LordMcDonagh, B.


    Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
    Faulkner of Worcester, L.McIntosh of Haringey, L.
    Filkin, L.MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
    Fyfe of Fairfield, L.McKenzie of Luton, L.
    Gale, B.Marsh, L.
    Giddens, L.Massey of Darwen, B.
    Gilbert, L.Maxton, L.
    Golding, B.May of Oxford, L.
    Goldsmith, L.Merlyn-Rees, L.
    Goudie, B.Mitchell, L.
    Gould of Brookwood, L.Morgan of Drefelin, B.
    Gould of Potternewton, B.Morgan of Huyton, B.
    Graham of Edmonton, L.Nicol, B.
    Grocott, L. [Teller]Pendry, L.
    Harris of Haringey, L.Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
    Harrison, L.Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
    Hart of Chilton, L.Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
    Haworth, L.Rooker, L.
    Henig, B.Rosser, L.
    Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.Royall of Blaisdon, B.
    Hollis of Heigham, B.Sawyer, L.
    Howells of St. Davids, B.Scotland of Asthal, B.
    Hoyle, L.Simon, V.
    Hughes of Woodside, L.Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
    Hunt of Kings Heath, L.Thornton, B.
    Janner of Braunstone, L.Triesman, L.
    Jones, L.Truscott, L.
    Jordan, L.Tunnicliffe, L.
    Kilclooney, L.Wall of New Barnet, B.
    King of West Bromwich, L.Warner, L.
    Layard, L.Weidenfeld, L.
    Leitch, L.Whitty, L.
    Lipsey, L.Williams of Elvel, L.
    Lockwood, B.Young of Norwood Green, L.
    Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.

    Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

    Motion, as amended, agreed to.

    2.36 p.m.