asked Her Majesty’s Government:

What plans they have to include forestry in the developing world in the voluntary carbon trading scheme.

My Lords, afforestation and reforestation projects in developing countries are eligible for crediting under the clean development mechanism. However, they cannot currently be traded for compliance purposes under the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme. This is now being examined as part of the review of the scheme. The United Kingdom is working with partners in international negotiations to find a solution that would also allow crediting of projects that seek to avoid deforestation.

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer and am delighted to hear of the intention of the Government. However, given that deforestation accounts for nearly a quarter of global carbon emissions, does he not agree that conservation of the forests should be a priority in post-Kyoto agreements, especially in the light of the recommendations made by Sir Nicholas Stern? Will he convey to colleagues negotiating at the EU summit tomorrow the dismay of those people living on the continents of Africa, Asia and South America at how the European Union and the G8 countries seem so reluctant to do this?

My Lords, I am more than happy to pass on the remarks of the right reverend Prelate before the EU Council at the weekend. The Stern figure quoted by the right reverend Prelate is going up by the day. My brief states that the Stern review said that around 18 per cent of global greenhouse emissions come from deforestation. At lunchtime, I saw a paper saying that Stern said 20 per cent, while the right reverend Prelate has just referred to almost 25 per cent. In other words, the percentage is very substantial; we are talking about around a fifth of all greenhouse gas emissions. Nevertheless, we want to be positive and seek to include the avoidance of deforestation in future climate change agreements. This is not simple and certainly cannot be done within the EU’s emissions trading system at the present time.

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, has honoured his word and has written to me about the EU Emissions Trading Scheme following our debate on 8 February, and I have passed his letters on to a number of people who have expressed great interest in what he said. However, there is one matter that the noble Lord will recognise may cause some difficulty. I asked when clean coal technology would come within the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, and the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, said that it would not be until 2013. Why can we not bring clean coal into that scheme as soon as possible?

My Lords, I shall seek to have early discussions with my noble friend Lord Truscott about the answer to that question because I am not briefed on it. I am briefed as well as I am able on the developing world and forestry. Of course I realise that coal starts off as forest, and perhaps some would like to make the connection. Obviously there is a big benefit to everyone in clean coal technology. It is something that we can lead the world on in terms of selling our intellectual property rights and getting a benefit—indeed, a benefit for the planet and a benefit economically. I will check the particular dates to which the noble Lord referred.

My Lords, how does this fit in with the President of the United States of America’s publicly stated notion about biofuels? He has clearly stated that, if a lot more biofuel crops are grown, that will mean a great deal of deforestation.

My Lords, that is why this issue is much more complicated than simply a soundbite to make a populist argument. Chopping down forests to grow other trees to create biofuels—trees that may soak up less carbon—could have a negative effect on the planet. The simple answer of biofuels is not a simple answer. The issue is much more complicated than the President of the United States seems to understand.

My Lords, what effect does deforestation have on the potential for flooding?

An enormous effect, my Lords, as far as I am aware, if the deforestation is in the wrong place and unplanned. That is why these things have to be part of a management plan for the environment of the whole planet.

My Lords, the European summit is coming up in the next two days, and the environment and the Emissions Trading Scheme will be top of the agenda. Key issues around that include forestry, but also national allocation plans and ensuring a positive price for carbon for the long term. What are the Government doing to advocate that strongly at this week’s summit?

My Lords, we shall be telling our European Union partners this weekend that next week we shall publish the Climate Change Bill.

My Lords, there have been a number of afforestation schemes in Africa, particularly in north Africa. Have any of them been successful?

My Lords, I will have to take advice on that. I understand that only one of the schemes that are part of the clean development mechanism has been registered as a forestry scheme. These are early days to try to get some kind of mechanism where one can capture carbon and have a credit. To go back to the original Question, it cannot be part of the European emissions trading system at present.

My Lords, to bring the matter closer to home, what steps have Her Majesty’s Government taken to ensure that timber used in government projects comes from certifiable sustainable sources?

My Lords, the UK timber trade has told us that Britain’s sustainable timber procurement policy has been the single most important driver of change of behaviour in the UK private sector. We are aiming our procurement policies at the real problem of forest degradation and destruction, and avoiding gold-plating standards that countries with serious forest governance problems cannot hope to achieve in the short term. In other words, there is a beneficial effect, and the UK timber trade has informed us of that.

My Lords, will Mr Miliband be proposing that 35 million British drivers, and perhaps 250 million EU drivers, be subjected to an emissions trading scheme at some time in the future?

My Lords, I am not sure of the details, but I do not think that that is included in the Climate Change Bill next week.

My Lords, the Minister has kindly said that he will take a message from the right reverend Prelate to the negotiators. Will he take on board the fact that many others support that message, not merely the Bishop?

Yes, my Lords, but I pay tribute to the work of the right reverend Prelate on this issue, as would the whole House. This is a much wider issue. I fully accept that the concerns about what is happening to the planet’s forests are shared by everyone. Wrong emissions and destruction in one part of the planet affect everyone, which is why this is a global issue and should not be confined just to the EU; we have to get it internationalised.