asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Whether they will participate in debates on Scottish sovereignty with a community development ethos.
My Lords, under the Treaty of Union of 1707 both England and Scotland ceded sovereignty to form the basis for the United Kingdom. The Government have no intention of discussing the break-up of the union. Public support for the union in Scotland is shown to be overwhelming both in opinion polls and elections.
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for his Answer, which I suspect disappoints me. Community development officers are tasked with meeting local communities, helping them to decide what they would like to do and then discovering how to do it. Since I believe that sovereignty and dependency are issues for the residents of Scotland, I hope that the United Kingdom Government will approach these issues with an open mind and an even hand. If so, was the Secretary of State for Scotland correct in setting up a Scottish constitutional commission with a unionist, devolution-only remit? Does the noble and learned Lord agree that that is unfair to those seeking political independence or, indeed, a return to direct rule? Is the—
My Lords, the noble Earl has had a good shot at asking his question. I think that we are ready for the answer.
My Lords, I am delighted to answer the various points. The commission or the Scottish parliamentary review is an initiative led by the Holyrood leaders of the three pro-union parties. It is both cross-party and cross-border. I hope that provides at least some answer to the noble Earl.
My Lords, as a member of the constitutional convention in the 1990s, I remind the House and the noble Earl that the SNP was invited to join that convention to discuss the constitutional future of Scotland but refused to take part in it. I also remind the noble Earl that there was no overwhelming demand for independence at the general election. In fact, Alex Salmond is First Minister on the basis of 48 votes in one constituency.
My Lords, possibly I did not require to be reminded of some of this. I have noticed that there has been a small alteration in the Administration of Scotland, where there is apparently a minority, separatist flavour in power.
My Lords, since the Question refers to community, does the noble and learned Lord agree that Scotland is less likely to move towards independence because of the policies of the SNP than, perhaps, because of the lack of interest shown by the community in England?
My Lords, the strength lies within the union, and that union is made up of the respective communities. Developing the communities in Scotland only adds to the strength of the union.
My Lords, I recognise that the Government do not intend at this time to engage in any discussion of sovereignty but what consideration is being given to the enhancement of the powers of the Scottish Parliament? What method of reporting does the noble and learned Lord think appropriate, considering that this matter is one for the Westminster Parliament?
My Lords, it appears that the area in which this is being developed is through the Scottish parliamentary review. At this stage, the Prime Minister has made his position quite clear; namely, that it is a good thing that the respective parties in Scotland are having a debate about the devolution issue. He will await the outcome of those discussions before commenting further. I respectfully share that position.
My Lords, although the Question refers to Scotland, does the noble and learned Lord accept that Wales and Scotland are not mere adjuncts to England but are countries and nations in their own right? Whatever the relationship between them and the United Kingdom, reality should start from the bedrock basis that they are nations and countries.
My Lords, of course, as a Scot, I could find it very difficult to disagree with the noble Lord in any shape or form. Both Wales and Scotland have contributed enormously to the union. We are all stronger for it, and so is the United Kingdom.
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend accept that the devolution settlement established by the Scotland Act 1998 puts in place a settlement that is good for Scotland, good for the United Kingdom and provides the best of all possible worlds?
My Lords, again, I find some difficulty to cavil with the language chosen there. Devolution strengthens the union and allows diversity within it.
My Lords, will the Minister have an open mind when he has this review, remembering that a nation such as Slovenia, which is part of the old Yugoslavia, with only 2 million people, now holds the presidency of the European Union? Wales and Scotland might also be able to follow that role model.
My Lords, I have always found a lack of attraction in a closed mind. Therefore, I entirely endorse the noble Lord’s suggestion. The way in which the review proceeds is not under this Minister but by the Scottish parties at Holyrood.
My Lords, is the noble and learned Lord aware that the Scottish Independence Convention is this morning launching a petition to the Scottish Parliament for a referendum on political independence?
My Lords, until a few minutes ago that question fell to be answered in the negative. However, I am now aware. On the way in which the petition comes before the Scottish Parliament, it will, initially at least in Scotland, be a question of whether it falls within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.
My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord learn from my noble kinsman’s and my joint ancestor, who failed in the 1715 rebellion? Perhaps our family is not the one to take advice from.
My Lords, I will note that suggestion.