asked Her Majesty’s Government:

What is their latest assessment of the cost of identity cards to individuals; and how the total cost of the identity card scheme will be split between the Government and the general public.

My Lords, a detailed charging strategy for the national identity scheme is still to be fully developed, although it is intended that, over time, the running costs of the scheme will be recovered from fees, just as they are now for passports. The national identity scheme delivery plan, published on 6 March this year, reiterates the commitment to set the fee for an identity card in 2009-10 at £30 or less.

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does he agree that the case for identity cards has been made, given that identity fraud costs the UK approximately £1.7 billion a year and that many professional criminals and terrorists frequently use identity fraud as a means of evading detection? Also, will he assure the House that the Government will look into the question of ensuring absolute security on the systems used and control the costs?

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right about how important it is to establish one’s identity and the real risks involved. This morning I visited Woodhill Prison because I wished to discuss issues about extremism. I tried to get in by showing my House of Lords identity pass, but that did not seem good enough, although one slightly amusing cove said, “We have had a couple of you in here before, sir”. My naval identity card was accepted but they were not too happy with my driving licence.

As some noble Lords will know, I had a birthday recently and I am applying for a freedom pass. I find that I need a passport, a utility bill, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all. We all carry a plethora of documents and it is extraordinary how much data one can find out about individuals from this raft of things, including shopping preferences, credit ratings and God knows what. It is not surprising that the financial sector strongly supports having ID cards. They will be useful things and will have some utility in relation to counterterrorism, although that is not their prime aim.

My Lords, I remind the Minister that my right honourable friend David Davis has written to the Cabinet Secretary giving formal notice that an incoming Conservative Government would scrap the identity card scheme. In the light of that and the long-standing convention that no Parliament can bind a successor Parliament, what provision, if any, has been made in the relevant contractual arrangements to protect the Government and public funds against the costs that would be incurred as a result of the early cancellation of the scheme by an incoming Conservative Government?

My Lords, I have to say that I do not know exactly the answer to that. We are at the moment in debate with five companies over provision of ID cards and I will have to get back to the noble Viscount in writing about what provision has been made. Not introducing them would be a terrible mistake. I am glad to say that it is very unlikely that the Conservatives will get in, so I hope that there will not be a problem.

My Lords, has my noble friend read or heard about the Rowntree report today on electoral fraud? Does he agree that the early compulsory introduction of identity cards would go a long way to solving the problem of electoral fraud and make it considerably easier for people to vote in a variety of places?

My Lords, my noble friend makes an extremely good point; the scheme would be extremely useful for that. Of course, we will be looking after people's documentation and details far better than this plethora of other people. There have been some very bad incidents—the case involving HMRC was bad—but we have to get used to the fact that in this country we need to use data if we are to run and organise things. We need to put in place the right rules to make sure that that happens, which we are doing with the national identity register. We have three blocs—three systems—that will form the NIR. We have made sure that there is personal security, physical security, legislative security and technical security. There can always be mistakes but, my goodness me, we must ensure that we try to get these things right. It is something that we have to do across the public and private sectors within this country.

My Lords, the Minister waxes lyrical about the security of data; I will not tempt him by going down that road, but will he revert to the fees of ID cards? Is he aware of the estimate of the London School of Economics—that it may cost as much as £300 per person, rather than the £30 figure that he gave? Can he confirm that when a card is lost, stolen or someone changes their name because of marriage or for any other reason, they will have to pay the cost, and do so over and over again every time their circumstances change?

My Lords, as regards the cost of the ID card and that of a passport, it is fairly clear that we are looking at £30 for an ID card in 2009-10 and £72 for a passport. Indeed, we will report in May with an update on the total cost of the whole package, which includes contributions from people, which was last given as £5.46 billion; it looks as though we might have squeezed a billion out of that by negotiating with the various companies involved. We will also look at trying to have reductions for poorer people and try to drive that price down for those who receive well below the minimum wage. Perhaps we can find some easy way of doing that. As regards costs if one loses a card, at the moment, as I understand it, you will have to pay the cost again as one does when one loses other things. I shall get back to the noble Baroness in writing on charges when one gets married.

My Lords, is not the Minister aware that he may have inadvertently given the impression in his reply to his noble friend that it is acceptable to wait until identity cards are introduced, if ever, before dealing with the very serious problem of electoral fraud? Is he not aware that that is wholly unacceptable? Does he not believe that that needs to be tackled straight away and that individual registration may well be the way forward?

My Lords, if I gave that impression, it is certainly not what I meant. There is no doubt that electoral fraud is appalling and strikes at the roots of our democracy. Therefore, I would never have said that.