To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will press the European Union to widen its review of European Union Council Regulation 1/2005 on transport of horses to include journey length, watering, feeding, rest periods and fitness to travel.

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as my daughter is an equine veterinary surgeon.

My Lords, the European Commission has already indicated its wish to review regulation 1/2005, concentrating on journey times, stocking densities and satellite tracking. Official proposals are awaited and will be carefully assessed. Stakeholders will be fully engaged. The Government have supported this review and emphasise the importance of appropriate rest periods and feeding and watering breaks.

My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for that helpful reply. It is clear from the latest survey carried out by the charity World Horse Welfare that the existing regulations on the export of live animals—horses in particular—for slaughter are not being enforced. Will he urge the Commission to work on that aspect of it? As the Minister has just said, the Commission has brought forward its review of the regulations, which was due in 2011. Will he seek to ensure that it covers not only the items which he has just mentioned but fitness to travel and checks on fitness to travel, since the indications are that there are not only welfare issues here but a danger to health?

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the points that he makes. We want to see the European Commission regulations improved and we have been pressing for that, not least because we operate our own rules, which are better than the European regulations. We are nevertheless worried that we could be tested in terms of our conflict over European regulations. Therefore, we want to ensure that our position is four-square with Europe on the basis that Europe approaches our welfare measures. As the noble Lord indicated, there are a number of issues to be raised with regard to Europe in terms of the nature of the rules; but, as he indicated in his supplementary question, one of the crucial things is enforcement, at which we in the United Kingdom are rigorous—which is not the case all over Europe.

My Lords, the figures produced by World Horse Welfare are horrific. If the Government are unable to persuade the EU to widen its review, will they consider asking the redoubtable Joanna Lumley to become their enforcer, preferably as a Member of this House, since she might be able to succeed where they may fail?

My Lords, I am certainly prepared to meet Joanna Lumley to discuss this issue further.

Oh!

My Lords, I emphasise that we anticipate that the European Union’s commitment to review regulation 1/2005 indicates a significant step in the right direction. I hasten to add that all our organisations concerned with the welfare of animals have been putting in the strongest representations on this front, and the noble Lord can rest assured that we will pursue this issue with the utmost urgency.

My Lords, here is another role for the European Union. Is my noble friend aware that in 1959, I chaired a meeting at the Cambridge Union for Sean Lemass, the Taoiseach—the first time a Taoiseach had spoken in this country? Entry into the chamber was impeded by a demonstration about Irish horses being sent to knackers’ yards in Belgium. Is it not self-evident that we must work on a European basis—and take a little less than 50 years to get to a solution?

My Lords, my noble friend is right that I did not know about his activities in 1959. Of course, I entirely follow the point of his argument, namely that the higher standards in the United Kingdom are ones that we want translated into European regulation in the redrafting that will take place, and that we want then to see the regulation enforced.

My Lords, I join those who have congratulated the Minister on his appointment. If any doubt existed as to his status, it could not have been because he failed to pass the loyalty test—it could only have been because he is already fully stretched as the sweeper for the Government on so many portfolios. The figures referred to by my noble friend Lord Higgins—37 per cent of horses arriving in Italy were not fit to be transported—speak for themselves. Would the Minister not agree that differentials in standards of animal welfare across the board represent a serious distortion to the single market, as well as an affront to its values?

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his initial remarks. Loyalty is easy to a principled Government. I emphasise that I concur entirely with his illustration, and he is quite right about the Italian situation. Would that it were the only instance where the welfare of animals in transit was not satisfactory. The answer is certainly to have better rules and regulations; but I reiterate the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, that enforcement is also important.

My Lords, first, in that case, can the Minister be very daring, break the normal rules of secrecy over European legislation and share with us how the votes stacked up on this issue on the Council? Secondly, is it really acceptable that we in the United Kingdom, with our high standards of animal welfare, should be bossed around by Brussels on this issue?

My Lords, the second point is readily answered. On his first point about how the votes stacked up, the fact that a revision is being carried out is an indication that the nation states of Europe are all too well aware that present standards are not high enough.

My Lords—

My Lords, we are now into the 24th minute.