That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Networks) Exemption Order 2009.

Relevant Document: 22nd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

My Lords, we introduced mandatory accessibility requirements for all new rail vehicles—commonly known as RVAR—more than a decade ago. Already there are 5,600 compliant rail vehicles in service—more than one-third of the national fleet. However, we knew that there was more to do and have further strengthened the regime by taking powers to apply accessibility standards to older rail vehicles—those in service before 1 January 1999—when they are refurbished. We have set an end date of 1 January 2020, by which time all rail vehicles must be compliant. The House took a keen role in scrutinising the provisions and noble Lords suggested a number of significant improvements.

However, in expanding RVAR to capture older rail vehicles used on public transport services, older heritage and tourist vehicles have been brought within the scope of the requirements. Applying modern accessibility requirements to heritage and tourist railways would clearly damage the experience of a train or tram journey from the past which they wish to recreate and in which this country has such a wonderful tradition. We have no desire to destroy this heritage or to restrict the important contribution that this sector makes to increasing tourism and, given the location of many of these networks, to bolstering regional economies. The draft order therefore provides an exemption for these vehicles to ensure their preservation. It may be helpful to the Grand Committee if I briefly summarise its provisions.

The draft order will provide an exemption for all heritage and tourist rail vehicles that were introduced into service before 1 January 1999 and that are operated on any of the many heritage and tourist networks named in the schedule. It will also exempt all heritage and tourist rail vehicles that were introduced into service before 1 January 1999 and that are operated solely within the confines of a depot, whether on an exempt or non-exempt network, and all rail vehicles, regardless of their date of entry into service, that are operated on miscellaneous networks. These networks include those that are used for industrial purposes, engineering or building works in the grounds of a private house, fairground ride and so on that would otherwise be within the scope of RVAR.

Vehicles covered by the exemption will be able to operate on any of the networks listed in the schedule without impediment. However, we also know that some operators occasionally run their vehicles for special events or excursions on networks, such as the Blackpool tramway, that have no exemption as they primarily provide a public transport service. We do not want accessibility legislation to stop this practice, so provision is made to allow individual vehicles to operate on non-exempt networks for a maximum of 20 traffic days each in any calendar year. A traffic day runs from 3 am to 3 am in recognition of the service patterns that some operators adopt. This provision came out of the consultation process.

In preparing the draft order, we considered carefully the interests of disabled people and sought a balance between these and the legitimate interests of railway enthusiasts who wish to preserve our rich railway heritage. I suppose at this point I ought to declare an interest as one of those enthusiasts. We believe that this approach is sensible and pragmatic. It has received solid support from stakeholders, including the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee, and I commend it to the Committee.

My Lords, this is a largely uncontroversial order, and I make it clear from the outset that I am not minded to oppose it. We all subscribe to the fact that disabled people should be able to access all public service and leisure vehicles and be in a position to enjoy, as able-bodied people do, the full range of leisure activities, but one has to accept that there may be rare occasions when this is simply not feasible. Heritage rail vehicles surely fall into this latter category. Many are run on small gauges and cannot be adapted, as the order says, in a way that complies with the Disability Discrimination Act or the rail vehicle accessibility regulations, and a valuable and enjoyable attraction would become unavailable to all those who want to take advantage of it if either were enforced.

I have a couple of questions. I see that the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee was consulted on the resolution procedure suggested in the order, but there is nothing to indicate its response to the general consultation on this matter. Given that there was a consultation and that the responses were taken into account, can we take it that this organisation was content on this occasion to accept limited access to this leisure activity for those whom it represents? Will the Minister clarify what its response was to the main consultation? He may also know whether the owners of these pre-1 January 1999 heritage vehicles can give some access to people with disabilities, particularly those who are in wheelchairs, so that they can participate where possible, or is this largely too difficult? Does the Minister know what limited access is provided on at least some of the areas listed in the schedule? Can he also confirm that all vehicles of this type constructed since 1 January 1999 will comply with the Disability Discrimination Act and will therefore not need to be exempted at a later stage?

With regard to the 20 days, we also note that these rail vehicles can have access to the main non-exempt rail networks, and that they will be exempt from these provisions when they do and when they are in their depots—not necessarily for repair and maintenance but for the purpose of “depot days” for visitors. We think that that is a very sensible provision.

We are satisfied that the order provides a flexible and sensible exemption to an otherwise firm commitment which all Governments have made to try to ensure that those with disabilities are not disadvantaged in doing what they wish to do due to access being limited.

My Lords, I have one question for the Minister and one comment. I start with the 20-day exemption under which a heritage vehicle may be used on the main line. Many heritage railways operate where mainline trains operate—in future more will probably do so—and therefore the heritage railway will meet the national railway on perhaps 120 days a year. I am sure that, without my reciting them, the Minister will be able to tell the Committee the number of places where that situation exists. I should like an assurance from him that, where there is, as it were, a junction between the heritage railway and the national rail network, those places will not be subject to some sort of 20-day limitation. That would be totally artificial because people go on the national railway for the purpose of getting on to the heritage railway. In fact, I think that some heritage railways would do rather badly if that did not happen.

My other point is that, in his introduction, the Minister recited the fact that the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Networks) Exemption Order provides for all railway vehicles to be compliant with the provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act by, I think, 2021. This is probably a leading and contentious question, but how does the Department for Transport propose to meet that deadline, with proper accessibility provision in all vehicles, bearing in mind that there is an absence of orders for new vehicles and you cannot go through a period of famine and suddenly catch up with yourself after a few years have elapsed? I foresee that the Government will be obliged to come back and ask for further exemptions because the vehicles will not be available. I refer in particular to the cancellation by the Government of the order for 200 diesel vehicles. Although that rests on the premise that much of the railway will be electrified, I somehow think that the process of electrification will take rather longer than the Government think and that we will see some pretty old and inaccessible vehicles continuing in use at the expiry of the exemption period.

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords who have contributed to this short but excellent debate. They have reflected the interest in the House in the provision of an accessible public transport system, and at the same time they have been very supportive of our heritage railways.

In our commitment to increasing accessibility on public transport services, we do not want to spoil the things that are part of the historical charm of heritage and tourist railways, that make them so popular with the public and that contribute so significantly to the nation’s tourism industry. The Heritage Railway Association has advised that heritage railways and tramways employ 17,000 people directly and benefit from the services of 16,000 part-time volunteers. The public seem to appreciate the services that they provide, as they make 13 million passenger journeys a year on these railways and tramways.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, said, the vehicles that heritage railways use were never designed with accessibility in mind, and we have to be sensitive to some of the physical and technological difficulties that prevent heritage operators from complying with accessibility standards. Let me give one example. One of the most basic requirements of RVAR is that audio and visual passenger information about route and destination is provided. While it is obviously essential on a public transport service when people are travelling from one point to another, passengers on heritage or tourist networks are usually there to enjoy the journey itself and usually end up at the point at which they started from. If information is needed, increased levels of staffing on these networks will provide that increased information. The idea of putting in wiring that has flashing signs and a voice announcing where the heritage railway is going to would put the costs of the operation completely out of the court.

My Lords, I was making the point that adopting accessibility standards that apply to new vehicles in the heritage sector would cause a great deal of damage to the viability of heritage railways, which is why the exemption order has been brought forward. I am very pleased that it has the support of the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, and the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw.

They both raised questions that I shall try to answer. I was asked particularly about consultation. The order was subject to public consultation in the summer of this year and was sent to all the networks listed in the schedule, as well as representative industry groups, including the Heritage Railway Association. Crucially it was sent to the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee, the Government’s statutory advisers on the transport needs of disabled people. Forty-nine responses were received, and a summary of these is available on the Department for Transport’s websites. The provisions in the order were widely supported by all respondents as being a proportionate and effective way of dealing with the issue. The two bodies to which I referred were entirely content with the line that we have taken.

The noble Baroness asked about the efforts that the heritage network makes in attempting to deal with the needs of disabled people. It is important that it does so as its clientele tends to be elderly and sometimes disabled. It is an important part of a holiday or tourism experience that they should be able to use heritage railways. I am pleased to say that the great majority of heritage railways and tramways have made a special effort. I mention, in particular, the Kent & East Sussex Railway, the Bluebell Railway and the Severn Valley Railway, which are three very large heritage railways. The National Tramway Museum has also made special provision for disabled people. Sometimes it is a question of adapting vehicles to make them accessible to wheelchairs, which I have seen on a number of railways. With tiny railways, it is obviously difficult to accommodate them, but even on some of the narrow gauge lines in Wales similar provisions are made.

The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, asked about the 20-day exemption. I think that he is perhaps confusing two different things. The exemption applies to networks such as the Blackpool tramway, which provides a public transport service. The national railway is subject to the European accessibility regime, which would cover, for example, the North Yorkshire Moors Railway extending down to Whitby on the national railway. Those vehicles will be subject to the end date of 1 January 2020 when the European accessibility regime comes in, but we would hope that there would be consultations and discussions well before then to see how these could best be accommodated. They are not subject to the 20-day rule. If they want to operate on many more days, it will not be a problem.

The noble Lord also referred to whether we can meet the 2020 standards. We are working with the operators to see what needs to be made accessible by 2020 on the older vehicles, and here, too, we are engaging early. We have started the process of discussion and are embarking on something called targeted compliance.

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt. Will the Minister confirm that when a heritage railway runs into a station into which the national railway also runs, it may use the platform on the station for as long as it runs rather than for 20 days per year?

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct. I believe that I have covered the questions raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham. I have pleasure in commending the draft order to the Grand Committee.

My Lords, that completes the business before the Grand Committee this afternoon. The Committee therefore stands adjourned.