National Finance Animal Health Regulations (Charollais Bull Semen) 1. Sir J. Duncan asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what action he proposes to take against Craig Wheaton-Smith for smuggling Charollais bull semen into this country contrary to the Customs and Animal Health Regulations and causing to be shown at the Bath and West Show a product of this semen; and what steps he proposes to take to stop this sort of smuggling in the future which may be dangerous to the health of farm animals in this country. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd) Inquiries into the circumstances of the alleged offence are not complete and I cannot anticipate their outcome. Sir J. Duncan Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that this man might have cost him a million pounds in compensation to farmers for foot-and-mouth disease if the semen had contained the germ? In the circumstances, will he give an assurance that when his inquiries are complete this American millionaire smuggler will not be allowed to enter this country without being arrested and charged with his crime? Mr. Lloyd I fully agree with my hon. Friend about the possible serious consequences of an action like this. I think, however, that I had better not comment on what might or might not happen until the inquiries are complete. Bona Vacantia 2. Mr. Hale asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what amounts were transferred to the Exchequer as bona vacantia in the last twelve months to the most recent convenient date, and in each of the two preceding years; and what percentage such figures represented of the total estates annually involved. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd In 1958, 1959 and 1960 the net value of bona vacantia after meeting all legal claims and ex gratia payments was £289,000, £414,000 and £326,000 respectively. In most cases no applications for ex gratia payments were made. For the minority of estates in which they were, the proportions retained for the Exchequer lay between 56 and 59 per cent. For the whole range of cases the percentage varied between 81 and 86 per cent. Mr. Hale I am much obliged to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, but is not this really getting a very serious grievance? Many of us have cases of this kind where close friends who maintained the deceased for a very long time make applications which have very unsatisfactory results. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman really look at the question and see whether it is not proper and fit to have a general rule that, on the whole, the estate shall go to those most closely connected, either by blood or by friendship, rather than be forfeited to the Exchequer? Mr. Lloyd That, I think, really arises on the hon. Gentleman's next Question. 3. Mr. Hale asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will introduce a procedure for further appeal by friends or relatives who have claimed to participate in bona vacantia. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd No, Sir. While applicants are sometimes naturally disappointed, I am satisfied that their requests are carefully and sympathetically considered under the existing practice and arrangements; and I would add that if the hon. Member will send me particulars of any individual case, I will certainly see that they are sympathetically considered. Mr. Hale I am grateful for that Answer, but the point which I am trying to make, if the right hon. and learned Gentleman will consider it, is that at the moment, as far as I am aware, only written representations are possible in the normal cases. In Oldham they are made to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and outside Lancashire to the Treasury Solicitor. People are in a difficulty if in matters of great importance to them the only thing they can do is to write a letter and await results. Mr. Lloyd I should make it clear that my Answer does not include the Duchy of Lancaster. Claims there are dealt with differently. I will look into the point raised by the hon. Gentleman and see that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is made aware of it. National Theatre 4. Mrs. White asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a further statement on the future of the National Theatre. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd As I told the London County Council deputation which came to see me on 6th June, their offer to meet the capital cost of erecting a National Theatre on the South Bank in excess of £1 million already approved by Parliament in the National Theatre Act, 1949, creates a new situation. I must, however, make it clear that I would not in any event be prepared to agree to more than the sum of £1 million already approved by Parliament toward capital costs, nor could I agree to increase the sum by way of annual subvention already contemplated in accordance with my statement of 21st March. Mrs. White Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that we are much gratified that, by implication, he is prepared to meet the guarantee already given by Parliament? Will he do all he can to see that those concerned with this matter concert their plans and their actions so that we can make this dream into a reality? Mr. Lloyd I think that it is now for those concerned to consider what, I have agreed, is a new situation, and no doubt I shall be communicating to the House the result of any discussions which take place. War Loan 5. Mr. C. Hughes asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to investigate the hardship caused to persons who have invested in War Loans. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd I would refer the hon. Member to the Answers which my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary gave to the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West (Sir B. Tanner) on 27th June. Mr. Hughes Would not the Chancellor agree that a very large number of people in this country have invested their entire savings in War Loan for patriotic reasons, and has he no morsel of hope or comfort to give them? Are not the Government going to do anything to mitigate the losses which they have sustained? Mr. Lloyd I am acutely aware of the harship which has occurred in many cases, but I think that it would be wrong of me to raise any false hopes. The best way to help is to maintain the value of sterling abroad and try to change the present balance of payments position. I think that that is the way in which we shall help these people best. Mr. John Hall Will not my right hon. and learned Friend look at this matter again? Is not he aware that many people responded to the appeal to their patriotism to invest in War Loan? Is it really fair that they should be penalised, as compared with those who resisted this appeal? Will not he consider dating this stock, if he does nothing else? Mr. Lloyd A number of very wide aspects of public policy would be involved in such a step. Mr. Jay Ts the Chancellor aware that, quite apart from patriotic appeals in the past, the Financial Secretary, speaking in this year's Budget debate, said that giltedlged investors could look forward with more confidence? As prices have fallen by another four points since then, cannot he offer a little more sympathy to the people concerned? Mr. Lloyd I have said that I am aware of the hardship involved in many cases. I have every confidence that what my hon. Friend said will be justified in time. Industry, Rural Wales (Development Assistance) 6. Mr. Watkins asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many applications were received in the latest convenient period for assistance from the Development Commission for the extension of industrial activities in each of the rural counties of Wales; how many were granted; how many were not taken up; and what was the amount in each case. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd Five applications for assistance were received in the year ending 30th June, 1961: two for Radnor and one each for Anglesey, Brecon and Cardigan. Four were approved and one, received last week, is under consideration. One, which had been approved, has not been taken up. It is not possible to state the amounts of money which will be sanctioned because tenders have not yet been submitted. Mr. Watkins Will the Chancellor ask his Department to consider again whether publicity ought to be given about the funds available from the Development Commission so that industrialists may know about this? I understand that this is known to industrialists in Ireland through the Chancellor's colleague in the Board of Trade, but not in Wales through the Development Commission. Mr. Lloyd I am in complete sympathy with what the hon. Member has said. He is a member of the Mid-Wales Industrial Development Association, which is taking active steps in the matter. I will certainly ask my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade to see that his officials co-operate to the utmost of their capacity. I understand that they are doing so, but I will certainly raise the matter again. National Gallery (Giorgione Picture) 7. Mr. McLaren asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what price was paid by the Trustees of the National Gallery for the picture Sunset Landscape with St. George and St. Anthony attributed to Giorgione. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd This is a matter for the Trustees, and it is their considered policy not to publish the prices which they pay for pictures. Mr. McLaren Are not the Trustees dealing with public money? If we knew the figure, should not we be better able to judge whether they had made a good or a bad bargain? Mr. Lloyd I do not think that it would be very wise for figures with regard to private sales to be made public. We might find that, as a result, more public money was being spent rather than less. University Places 8. Mr. Sydney Irving asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will publish his estimates of the places expected to be available at each university in each of the next five years; which of these places will be for arts studies; and which will be for science studies. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd I cannot give figures of the growth of university population over the next five years until the development plans for the universities which the University Grants Committee is now collecting for the quinquennium 1962–67 have been received. The distribution of students between faculties is a matter for the universities themselves. Overall, however, I would expect about two-thirds of the new places would be for science and technology. Mr. Irving In view of the desperate need for scientists and engineers, will the Chancellor say how that estimate compares with the present ratio between science and arts courses, and also whether he is satisfied with the two-thirds proportion, and that the estimates that he is anticipating from the University Grants Committee will come forward early enough not to make it very much more difficult for us in future than it is now? Mr. Lloyd With regard to the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, I could not do that without notice. Broadly speaking, I am satisfied with the proposed balance. I think that the University Grants Committee will report in time. Mr. Chetwynd Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman able to give the figures of men and women concerned, in view of the great difficulty which women are having in getting university places? Mr. Lloyd I should require notice of that question, but I will let the hon. Member have the information if he requires it. Sterling 9. Mr. Rankin asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assurances he gave to the European central banks and the American Federal Revenue Bank at their meeting in Basle at the beginning of June about reducing Government expenditure in return for sufficient funds to maintain the strength of sterling. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd No such assurances were given. Mr. Rankin In spite of the very serious nature of the speech which the right hon. and learned Gentleman made to the chambers of commerce, and the warnings he gave about the grave state of our invisible earnings and visible earnings, is he assuring us that he can maintain the strength of sterling without any propping up from abroad? Mr. Lloyd I think that we can maintain the strength of sterling by the general efforts of the community as a whole. Mr. H. Wilson Is the Chancellor suggesting that sterling is not being very much propped up from abroad at present by the holding of sterling by the European central banks? Although we all welcome this, is it not a fact that the present monthly gold figures are entirely unreal as long as an unknown amount is being held for the support of sterling? Mr. Lloyd I admit that they are not as precise as before, but what is happening is that some hot money which has been held on private account is now having substituted for it funds held by the central banks. Goya Picture (Duke Of Wellington) 10. Mr. K. Robinson asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art has now informed him of its decision on the application to export Goya's portrait of the Duke of Wellington. 11. Mr. Lipton asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has received a report from the Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art in connection with Goya's portrait of the Duke of Wellington. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd Hon. Members will have seen in the Press the announcement that Mr. Wrightsman has offered this portrait to the National Gallery at the price which he paid for it. The National Gallery Trustees are at present considering this offer. The Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art has therefore not yet advised on the case. Mr. Robinson Does not the Chancellor agree that this picture combines outstanding artistic merit with uniquely historic importance for this country? I do not expect him to give any specific undertaking in the matter, but does not he agree that it would be most unfortunate if this opportunity to acquire the picture for the nation was lost? Mr. Lloyd I agree about the merits of the picture. This is an admirable case in which private individuals could show their concern for the retention of works of art in this country by finding the money to pay for it. Mr. Biggs-Davison I am as anxious as any other hon. Member to keep this work of art within Her Majesty's Dominions, but does my right hon. Friend's jurisdiction extend to Jersey, whence this portrait came? Mr. Lloyd I do not think that it is a question of my jurisdiction, but it certainly comes within the sphere of authority of my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. Stationery Office Publications (Technical And Training College Libraries) 12. Mr. Sydney Irving asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will extend the concession at present available to public libraries and university libraries, of being able to buy the publications of Her Majesty's Stationery Office at a discount of 50 per cent., to the libraries of technical colleges and teacher training colleges. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd No, Sir. Technical and training college libraries are already receiving substantial assistance from the Exchequer through the ordinary grant system. The concession to university libraries is being brought to an end, and the University Grants Committee has so informed the university authorities. There is therefore no case by analogy for extending the concession to technical college libraries. Building Controls 13. Mr. Rankin asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in view of his decision to restrict expenditure in this country, what proposals he has for taking powers to control the building industry. 21. Mr. Jay asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the continued deficit in the United Kingdom balance of payments and stagnation in industrial output, he will reintroduce building and other controls. 25. Mr. Stratton Mills asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will give an assurance that, in his consideration of methods of reducing expenditure, he will not take any steps to reintroduce building controls. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd It is not the present intention of the Government to reintroduce building controls. Mr. Rankin Is it not the case that on 22nd June the right hon. and learned Gentleman said that public expenditure was rising too fast, and that some necessary programmes would have to be cut? Would it be fair to do so while still leaving untouched what could, in the circumstances, be called frivolous expenditure on building? Mr. Lloyd It is not so much a question of cutting programmes; it is a question of restraining the increase in expenditure upon them. The question of the merits of building controls has frequently been debated. The point is whether the reinstitution of a very cumbersome machine, involving of itself a very considerable demand on manpower, is the right way to tackle the problem. Mr. Jay Is it not obvious that if the Government still had these powers in their hands they would be far better able to deal with the present crisis? In particular, is not the absence of control over office building in our great cities distorting a great deal of our employment policy all over the country and leaving all sorts of insoluble problems? Mr. Lloyd It is a question of pros and cons, and on the whole the cons outweigh the pros in regard to building licences. Mr. Stratton Mills May I assure my right hon. and learned Friend that his efforts—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] —will my right hon. and learned Friend take note that his efforts to resist these socialistic, bureaucratic controls will be widely welcomed throughout the land? Mr. H. Wilson We shall want a debate on this subject before long, but will the Chancellor at any rate give an assurance that on this occasion the Government will not impose swingeing cuts on essential building within the public sector, especially on local authority building, while leaving uncontrolled relatively frivolous building in the private sector? Mr. Lloyd The right hon. Gentleman is quite right in saying that these matters are much better debated than dealt with by way of Question and Answer. Mr. Tiley Would it not be a sufficient restraint if my right hon. Friend began to tax the profits which are being made free in this area? Mr. Lloyd That is quite a different question from the Question on the Order Paper. Income Tax Law 14. Mr. H. Wilson asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he has noted the statement of the Master of the Rolls in a recent case concerning the operation of Schedule D and Schedule E expenses; and what action he proposes to take to deal with the problem. 17. Mr. More asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if his attention has been drawn to the recent statement by the Master of the Rolls in the Court of Appeal to the effect that the Income Tax law, as now enacted, is such as to bring the law into disrepute with consequent detriment to the welfare of society; and what measures he proposes to remedy this situation. 26. Mr. Lipton asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will amend the Income Tax law following the comments of the Master of the Rolls in the Court of Appeal on 26th June last. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd I will bear the comments in mind when I am considering any relevant change in the Income Tax law. Mr. Wilson Is the Chancellor aware that the learned judge referred to Income Tax as "a sort of game, a battle of ingenuity unrelated to any principle or commonsense or ethical consideration, … extremely bad for respect for the law" and "seriously damaging to its prestige and consequently to the welfare of society"? Is he aware that on many occasions we on this side of the House, and some of his hon. Friends, have pressed on him the entirely anomalous situation arising from Schedule D and Schedule E expenses but that he has failed to legislate about this? Will he take early action to get rid of this discrimination which the learned judge said was degrading for this country? Mr. Lloyd I will certainly consider the matter. I agree with the hon. Member that it is desirable that the tax system should be as simple as possible. What the learned judge said is one reason for not embarking on new experiments in taxation, for example, with regard to capital gains. Mr. More Does the Chancellor recollect that as long ago as 1936 these anomalies were adversely commented on by the Macmillan Committee appointed by his predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Woodford (Sir W. Churchill)? Does he recollect that the Committee produced a draft of a new Income Tax Statute in comprehensive and lucid terms? Does he not think that the time has come when that might be enacted in place of the present chaotic jumble of archaic enactments, amending laws, judicial decisions and Departmental practices through which the taxpayer has to grope his way? Mr. Lloyd If my hon. Friend is good enough to read what I said in my Budget speech, he will see that I have considerable sympathy with his point of view but, as I said then, since reaching the Treasury I have become aware that simplification is not quite as simple as it sounds. Mr. Wilson Is the Chancellor aware that counsel for the Inland Revenue, the hon. and learned Member for Darwen (Mr. Fletcher-Cooke), who since this case has become a junior Minister, said that had the present case come under Schedule D the result might have been different, and indeed it would have been different? Is he aware that the learned judge, having made these statements, asked counsel to bring this to the attention of the Inland Revenue and that counsel replied in terms which suggested that the Inland Revenue was well aware of the indefensible position? Will the Chancellor take action about it? Mr. Lloyd I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman asked that question. What learned counsel said was misreported. He did not say what he was reported as having said. New Schools (Cost) 15. Mrs. Slater asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what would be the total cost to a local education committee of a school, for which the tender price is £170,000, after interest has been paid for 60 years at 6¼ per cent. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd Local authorities customarily borrow over 35 years for school building projects, not 60 as the hon. Member suggests. The repayments of capital and interest on a loan of £170,000 for 35 years at the current Public Works Loan Board interest rate of 6¼ per cent. would amount to £421,000. Mrs. Slater Does not the Chancellor think that, instead of talking about cutting local authority projects, such as schools, it would be much better in the interests of education and other social services if the interest rates were cut to a more reasonable level which would not put such a heavy burden on local authorities and the individuals who have to find the money? Mr. Lloyd No. That would be quite the wrong aproach to the matter. If there is a shortage of capital the greatest possible mistake is to have artificially low rates of interest. If we are to correct the position, then I think that local authorities must pay the market rate—otherwise the position will never be corrected. Of course, one would rather that schools were built out of the savings of local authorities. They would then not have to pay interest rates. But I fully realise that that is not possible. That not being possible, I think that interest should be paid at the current market rate. Mr. H. Wilson Is the Chancellor so myopic that the cannot see the connection between his last Answer and the earlier Answer to the Questions about building controls? Is he not aware that the shortage of capital is largely due to the fact that so much unnecessary and frivolous building is being allowed to go on without any restriction while restrictions are having to be applied by interest rates and in other ways to essential school building? Mr. Lloyd I do not accept that there is a large amount of unnecessary and frivolous building going on. The idea that office building provides nothing to the nation is quite wrong. There is basically a shortage of capital and I think that to fiddle about with interest rates is the wrong way to deal with the problem. Kuwait Oil Supplies 18. Mr. Nabarro asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what contribution is made to the United Kingdom balance of payments by Kuwait oil supplies; and to what extent British Petroleum, in which Her Majesty's Government is a majority shareholder, has an interest in these supplies. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd It is not possible to distinguish the contribution to the balance of payments arising from the oil supplies from any particular country. The British Petroleum Company has an equal share with the Gulf Oil Corporation of America in the Kuwait Oil Company, which in the year ended 31st December, 1960, was responsible for the production of about 80 million tons of crude oil, representing the total output from Kuwait. Mr. Nabarro Will the Chancellor confirm that the Ruler of Kuwait has invested in British banks in London about £300 million which is his reserve from oil revenues during the last few years? As that large sum of money is evidently readily convertible and could have a dynamic effect on our balance of payments, will the Chancellor make some comment on what is obviously a very vulnerable financial position? Mr. Lloyd No. I do not think that I should make any comment at all. Nor do I think that I ought without notice to deal with the revenue or funds of the Ruler of Kuwait. If my hon. Friend puts down a Question about the matter I will consider whether it is right and proper for me to answer it. Mr. Emrys Hughes As about four-fifths of the people in Kuwait are illiterate, how do they apply for shares in British Petroleum? Mr. Lloyd I do not think that that arises on this Question. Mr. Shinwell If the figure mentioned by the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) of £300 million is correct— Mr. Nabarro It is correct, otherwise I should not have given it. Mr. Shinwell No doubt the Chancellor will check it. Would it not be wise to ask the Ruler of Kuwait out of these huge reserves to pay the bill for what is going on? Mr. Lloyd That is quite another matter. Mr. Nabarro I will put down a Question. Invisible Exports 19. Mr. Nabarro asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer to what extent invisible exports have declined in the twelve months ended 30th June, 1961, compared with the immediately preceding years; for what reason they have declined; what steps he is taking to assist their recovery; and whether he will make a statement. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd I will circulate a table in the OFFICIAL REPORT which analyses under the various heads the invisible payments and receipts for the past three years. The growth of Government overseas expenditure has been an important contributory factor to the decline in our net earnings. Ways of reducing this are being considered. Mr. Nabarro Will the Chancellor bear in mind that I am not the only hon. Member who has very great difficulty in analysing the trends of proceeds and revenue from invisible exports, as the figures are not published in any analytical or palatable form to hon. Members or the general public? Can that deficiency be remedied at an early date in order that hon. Members such as myself who take an intelligent interest in these matters can remain continuously informed? Mr. Lloyd I hope that my hon. Friend will be benefited by the table -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Payments |…| -------------------------- |Receipts |…| -------------------------- |Total invisibles (net)|…| -------------------------- Industrial Production 20. Mr. Ridley asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the percentage increase in industrial productivity has been over the past year. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd Between the first quarter of 1960 and the first quarter of 1961 the index of industrial production which I propose to circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Mr. Wilson Is not the Chancellor aware that we raised this question of invisible balances, which at last has been taken seriously, as a matter of great urgency in the debates on 7th February and 18th April and were given no reply at all from the Government Front Bench? Is he aware that he needs to take firm action about Government expenditure in Germany and to give us the true facts about the oil earnings, on which he has withheld all information from the House? Will he look again at the very serious loss of overseas invisible revenue due to British companies keeping their profits overseas under the O.T.C. provisions of the 1957 Finance Act? Mr. Lloyd These matters and a number of others which are also relevant are being considered by me. Following is the table: increased by just under 1 per cent. During the same period the numbers employed in the industries covered by the index increased by nearly 2 per cent., so that production per head fell by about 1 per cent. Mr. Ridley Does not the Chancellor agree that these are rather disturbing figures when put alongside the figures for increases in salaries and wages which he gave the House last week? Does it not go to the nub of our economic problem? Can he not suggest means of keeping the two slightly more together? Mr. Lloyd It is an exceedingly serious problem. It is lamentable that production has not gone up more. I must add one qualification; last year, productivity per man-hour went up a little, but owing to a reduction in the hours worked the net result was a decrease in production. Mr. Lee Will the Chancellor analyse the causes of what he describes as a lamentable performance? Is it not the case that Government policy is by far the most important issue in all this? We know that capital development has gone ahead and that, although there is a shortage of skilled men, nevertheless there are orders for a great many overseas markets. Why does not the Chancellor ally this situation with his own financial policy? Mr. Lloyd There are many very broad issues here, such as shortage of skilled labour, restrictive practices generally, whether management is up to date and the whole health of our economy. I spoke frankly about that in my Budget Speech. National Insurance Funds (Securities) 22. Mr. Jay asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the total decline in market values 'between October, 1951, and the end of June, 1961, of the securities held in the National Insurance Fund and National Insurance (Reserve) Fund. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd The market value of the securities in the National Insurance Funds in October, 1951, was £1,267 million; the market value of the securities in the Funds on 28th June, 1961 was £1,077 million. These two figures are not strictly comparable, however, due to changes during the period in the amount and composition of the portfolios. Mr. Jay Can the Chancellor give the fall in values of the securities which were actually in that Fund in October, 1951? Is it not rather astonishing, however lie calculates them, that there has apparently been a decline of £200 million in those funds held in trust for the contributors? Mr. Lloyd There has been a fall quite clearly, just as by 1951 the fall in the "Daltons" held by the Funds was something like £80 million. Tourists' Motor Cars (Documents) 28. Mr. Hirst asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he has now further considered the question of abolishing the carnet/tryptyque forms of documentation for private motor cars temporarily imported into the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement. Mr. Selwyn Lloyd Yes, Sir. From a date shortly to be announced these documents will, for an experimental period, no longer be required for tourists' motor cars, except in Northern Ireland. All that will be required instead will be a very simple form giving brief identification details. Mr. Hirst Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that his decision is very welcome and that it will be a considerable encouragement to the tourist trade? Will he watch carefully the effect this remission has on the Continent, where it has been highly successful, and attempt to make it permanent as soon as possible? Mr. Lloyd I shall bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said. Of course, there are certain problems of evasion of duty and we shall have to watch those. Former Indian Civil Servants (Compensation) 30. Mr. Glenvil Hall asked the Secretary to the Treasury how many officers, forced to retire from the Indian Civil Service when the new Constitution came into force and who received compensation therefor, have, since 1st January, 1954, refunded such compensation on establishment in the Home Civil Service; how many of them have refunded or are refunding the full amount received by instalments; and what is the total sum involved. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Sir E. Boyle) I have written to the right hon. Member giving most of the information for which he asks. Twenty-one former members of the Indian and Burma Services who undertook to make refunds of compensation by instalments have completed their repayments since 31st March, 1954, which is the nearest convenient date. In twelve further cases instalments are still being paid; at 31st March, 1961, the outstanding balances totalled approximately £9,000. Mr. Glenvil Hall Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have had his letter and am grateful for it? When is this practice to cease, in view of the fact that as far back as 1949 a statement was made from the Dispatch Box on be- half of the Treasury that no more compensation would be taken in this way? Sir E. Boyle As the right hon. Member is aware, this is a difficult question. I take the view that equity demands that we should continue the present arrangements, which have been applied without exception for many years, but I can assure him that I will of course bear in mind the many points he has made to me. I fully recognise his sincere concern in this subject. Mr. Glenvil Hall I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at some convenient time.