Oral Answers To Questions Ministry Of Power North Sea Gas 1. Mr. Derek Page asked the Minister of Power what consideration is being given by Her Majesty's Government to the planning of pipelines and related equipment for the handling and distribution of North Sea gas. 14. Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd asked the Minister of Power what consultations are being held with industry on the modifications of gas-using equipment which will be required for using North Sea gas. The Minister of Power (Mr. Richard Marsh) I am giving very close attention to all the consequences of the discovery of gas in the North Sea. The scope and scale of these consequences will depend on the amounts discovered. The planning of pipelines and equipment for the handling, distribution and use of North Sea gas is in the first place for the gas industry and I am discussing it with them in the context of their capital development programmes. Mr. Page Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the social needs of Norfolk and East Anglia in general for the industry which must flow as a result of these discoveries? Will he keep in close contact with the Regional Council? Mr. Marsh Yes, Sir. 3. Sir G. Nabarro asked the Minister of Power what additional capital sums he proposes to allocate to the nationalised gas industry for piped distribution of North Sea gas during 1966-70; what compensating economy there will be on capital account in respect of imported liquid methane and associated underground storage, respectively; and whether he will make a statement. Mr. Marsh May I first of all say how pleasant it is to see the hon. Gentleman's moustache again. Until more is known about the availability of gas from the North Sea, it is not possible to estimate what investment will be required for its distribution. The only firm proposal at present is to construct a pipeline to transmit gas from the British Petroleum Company's wells from the coast to the existing methane grid at a cost of £5 million. No investment has been proposed in connection with additional imports of methane. Sir G. Nabarro Does the right hon. Gentleman's reply mean that the capital allocation sums during the period between 1966 and 1970 for imported liquid methane will now remain unaltered? Mr. Marsh The capital expenditure in regard to the importation of Algerian methane has been completed. It is not possible to make any capital predictions about North Sea gas in general until we have some idea of the quantities involved. 5. Mrs. Jill Knight asked the Minister of Power when gas storage tanks will be available in the West Midlands area to house the gas shortly to be available from the North Sea project. Mr. Marsh Storage tanks will not be required for this purpose. 13. Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd asked the Minister of Power what is the estimated date for the supply of North Sea gas to Midlands industry. 21. Mr. Maxwell asked the Minister of Power what is the earliest date on which gas from British Petroleum's North Sea concession is expected to be available to consumers; and what price per therm is to be paid by the Gas Council to British Petroleum. Mr. Marsh The supply of 50 million cubic feet a day is planned to be available by about the middle of next year for use by the Midlands and other gas boards connected to the methane line. Smaller quantities may become available on shore before then. As the House was informed on 4th February, these supplies are being made available under an agreement for 15 years between the Gas Council and British Petroleum. The price of gas under this agreement will in general be for negotiation, but as a limited and temporary arrangement—and I should stress this—the price for an initial period of three years will be 5d. a therm for amounts up to an average of 100 million cubic feet a day. Mr. Maxwell Does not my right hon. Friend agree that this price is rather exorbitant? Would he not further agree that British Petroleum would be able to recoup its investment within three years, and will he confirm that he will not allow Shell to strike that kind of financial bonanza? Mr. Marsh This agreement was a limited and temporary arrangement suitable for the conditions at that particular time. It does not commit anybody to the same sort of agreement in the future. Mr. Brewis By what percentage does the Minister think this will reduce the price to the domestic consumer in the Midlands? Mr. Marsh It is impossible to give a figure till we have some idea of what there is in the North Sea, and this is a figure we have not yet got. Mr. Biffen Are the supplies of North Sea gas expected to be of such a quantity as to require a revision of the figures in the fuel section of the National Plan? Mr. Marsh Obviously, this whole question of North Sea gas will change our attitudes to many things. At present, however, no one knows the quantities which are available. Sea Gem (Loss) 2. Mr. Derek Page asked the Minister of Power when he expects the inquiry on the Sea Gem disaster to commence. Mr. Marsh I cannot yet say, as preliminary investigations are not completed. I will see to it that there is no avoidable delay. Mr. Page Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the urgency of this matter, the anxiety which arose over another break-up recently, and the number of other operations which are starting in the near future the construction of which must obviously be guided by the results of this inquiry? Mr. Marsh I accept completely the importance of speed in this matter, but I think that hon. Members on both sides will agree that the fact that it should be a very comprehensive inquiry seems more important. Gas And Electricity Industries (New Investment) 7. Mr. Patrick Jenkin asked the Minister of Power what steps he has taken to implement the recommendation of the National Board for Prices and Incomes, in its Seventh Report, paragraph 84 (v), that the Government should require the gas and electricity industries to apply to new investment a minimum rate of return higher than the general target return expected from the whole of their capital employed. Mr. Marsh I would refer the hon. Member to the statement made in the House on 10th March in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Normanton (Mr. Albert Roberts). Mr. Jenkin Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that that did not take us very far? Does he not recognise that unless an adequate rate of return is demanded from these projects—and this is a matter essentially for the Government—it is bound to lead to an increase in prices? This was the burden of the Prices and Incomes Board Report on this aspect. Mr. Marsh The nationalised industries already operate on the lines of the Board's recommendation. Mr. Iremonger On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for right hon. and hon. Gentlemen to answer Questions by referring to answers which were given in this House in the last Parliament? Mr. Speaker Yes, but the hon. Gentleman should raise a point of order about Questions at the end of Question Time. Later— Mr. Iremonger On a point of order. You were kind enough to say, Mr. Speaker, that you would reply at the end of Questions to a point of order I raised during Questions. The point of order was whether it was in order for Ministers, in replying to questions of my hon. Friends, to make reference to replies made in previous Parliaments. Mr. Speaker I replied very briefly to the hon. Gentleman. I told him that it was in order. I went on to say that I hoped that points of order would not be raised unnecessarily at Question Time. A Minister is in order in referring to questions or answers made in a previous Session. North Sea Drilling Operations 8. Mr. Hector Hughes asked the Minister of Power if he will seek power to enable him to insert in the licences which he grants to drill for oil or gas in the North Sea a provision that the relevant shore offices and berthings of apparatus be located in places in Scotland nominated by him. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Power (Dr. Jeremy Bray) No, Sir. The location of shore installations must plainly have regard to the area of operations. Mr. Hughes Does the Minister not realise that it is completely wrong and anti-British to allow the beneficiaries of these licences to divert their wealth away from Scotland, which depends so much on the North Sea? Dr. Bray I am sure my hon. and learned Friend will agree that the most important consideration is to see that the Scottish consumer gets natural gas at the cheapest possible price. This is not helped by unnecessarily expensive distribution systems. Mr. Manuel Would my hon. Friend remember that if he is to have a successful distribution of gas in Scotland he must have the utmost co-operation from local authorities in connection with wayleaves? 12. Mr. Hector Hughes asked the Minister of Power if he is aware that effluvia from drillings for oil and gas in the North Sea under licence drive fish shoals away from the fishing grounds there and are sufficient to imperil the fish and the fishing grounds; and if he will take steps, by legislation or otherwise. to obviate that peril. Dr. Bray No, Sir. I have no evidence to suggest that drilling for oil and gas has any adverse effect on fish. Mr. Hughes Would my hon. Friend say what scientific inquiries he has made on which to base that answer? Does he realise that fish are very sensitive creatures and can be driven away by oil and gas from their customary haunts? Dr. Bray A full investigation was carried out by the California Department of Fish and Game between 1958 and 1960 and it found that there was no deleterious effect on fish. The implication of my hon. and learned Friend's Question seems to be that oil is bad for English fish but might be good for Scottish fish. Scottish Gas Board (Prices) 1. Mr. Edward M. Taylor asked the Minister of Power to what extent the price of gas provided to domestic consumers by the Scottish Gas Board differs from the average price charged by other boards; and by what percentage the Scottish charges to domestic consumers exceed the lowest figure charged by another board. Mr. Marsh The average revenue per therm from domestic sales in Scotland in 1964-65, the latest year for which figures are available, was 29·70d. This compared with figures ranging from 22·59d. to 31·96d. per therm in other areas, and a national average of 26·36d. a therm. Since then there have been tariff changes in Scotland and some other areas, and it is not possible to provide up-to-date comparisons. Mr. Taylor Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that there has just been a 13 per cent. increase in the Scottish prices? Is he suggesting that these price increases were approved and applied before he made comparisons between Scotland and other areas? Has not the differential now become so serious that consideration should be given to making an equal charge in different parts of the country? Does the Minister say that he has not got the figures applying to the 13 per cent? Mr. Marsh The rationalisation of tariffs is an entirely different subject, and a big subject. As to the figures at the latest date available, I have given them to the hon. Gentleman. They are in the Answer. As to the 13 per cent. increase in prices, one cannot give an answer until one has been able to establish to what extent the price change alters the pattern of consumption. Steel Industry (Nationalisation) 15. Mr. St. John-Stevas asked the Minister of Power whether the proposed terms of compensation for the acquisition of steel shares, set out in the White Paper of April 1965, still represent Government policy. Mr. Marsh I cannot anticipate the publication of the Bill. Mr. St. John-Stevas Would it not be in the public interest to end the uncertainty which many thousands of investors are in about the value of their shareholdings, which has turned this most vital of our industries into a speculator's paradise? Mr. Marsh It is important to end all the uncertainty hovering over this industry, and the Government will do so in this Session. The particular issue raised by the hon. Gentleman is one which, obviously, will be covered by part of the Bill, and it must await publication of the Bill. Mr. O'Malley While accepting the method of assessing compensation set out in the White Paper, will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of bringing the five-year period up to date to read 1961-66, and will he take note of the implications of such a change? Mr. Marsh In the situation now, we have to take notice of the changed circumstances, if such exist, since the last debate we had in the House. Obviously, one of the things which will be considered, among many others, is the whole pattern of the terms of compensation, together with the rest of the Bill, though within the context, presumably, of the White Paper. Mr. Barber May I take this first opportunity to congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on attaining his high office? Does he agree with the White Paper which described the compensation terms there set out as the fairest basis of valuation? Mr. Marsh The terms of the White Paper were accepted at that time, and have been accepted since, as the Government's attitude to this issue. A period of time has elapsed since, and, if for no reason other than that I come fresh to this office, one is re-examining the Bill within the context of the White Paper. Mr. Michael Foot I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the attainment of his office and on the consideration he is giving to this subject. Will he consider, also, the proposition that it might be a good idea, as happened in the case of many other previous nationalisation Measures, if the compensation was not fixed at the beginning but was fixed after discussion about it in the House of Commons? Mr. Marsh Without wishing to be too repetitive, I think my hon. Friend will agree that we must all await publication of the Bill. Mr. Patrick Jenkin When will the Bill be published? Mr. Marsh If the hon. Gentleman cares to put down a Question, I shall willingly answer. 17. Mr. Rose asked the Minister of Power when he proposes to introduce a Bill for the public ownership of the steel industry. 20. Sir G. de Freitas asked the Minister of Power when he expects to introduce a Bill to restore public ownership and control of the main part of the steel industry. Mr. Marsh I would refer by hon. Friends to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 21st April. Mr. Rose Before introducing the Bill, will my right hon. Friend give a firm commitment to look once again into the question of the compensation, which many of us on this side feel to be over-generous, and will he give an undertaking also to look into the question of a real injection of industrial democracy into the reorganisation of the industry? Mr. Marsh Yes, Sir. Sir G. de Freitas Can my right hon. Friend assure us that, when the Bill is introduced, it will cover all the assets of the firm of Stewarts and Lloyds in Corby, Northamptonshire? Mr. Marsh Again, it is not possible to anticipate the Bill. I would be rather surprised if the particular firm was not included in the proposals. Mr. Barber Will the right hon. Gentleman consider, in the national interest, deferring the introduction of the Bill, which can only hinder our economic recovery and bring gloom to our overseas creditors? Prepayment Gas Meters (Theft Losses) 18. Mr. Iremonger asked the Minister of Power if he is aware that gas consumers are required to pay twice for gas consumed when a prepayment meter has been robbed; and if he will prepare legislation to relieve consumers of this obligation. Dr. Bray The present situation is of long standing. Area gas boards consider the circumstances in each case, sometimes in consultation with the police, and I am not satisfied that a change in the law is justified. Mr. Iremonger Could the hon. Gentleman suggest to gas boards that they might include in the standing charge a very small sum which would constitute universal insurance against this for all users so that people who have their meters robbed are not suddenly saddled with an enormous extra bill? Dr. Bray This is a matter for the area boards, but it is a difficult one. Each year about 100,000 meters are broken open, involving losses of about £350,000. One would not want to encourage people to regard their gas meters as a sort of "piggy bank". Mr. Bessell May I, on behalf of my right hon. and hon. Friends, take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his appointment? As the consumer is penalised in this way, through no fault of his own, will the hon. Gentleman look again into this whole question of meters which are robbed? Dr. Bray As I have said, I think that a useful purpose is served if the matter is raised with area consultative committees. I know that in the case of the Northern Gas Board, for example, a satisfactory arrangement was reached. Methane Gas (Scottish Pipeline) 19. Mr. Dalyell asked the Minister of Power whether, in order to maintain the prosperity of the Scottish economy, he will give a direction to the Gas Council to extend the methane gas pipeline to Scotland. Dr. Bray My right hon. Friend is very anxious to ensure that Scotland gains full benefit from discoveries of gas in the North Sea. It is too early to say whether this can most economically be secured by extending the methane pipeline or by other means. Mr. Dalyell When do the experts hope to be able to give a verdict on this? Dr. Bray Plainly, not before we know how much gas there is and where it is. Coal Price Increases 4. Sir G. Nabarro asked the Minister of Power what consultations took place between the Chairman of the National Coal Board and himself concerning the coal price increases recently announced, having regard to their discriminatory effect. 16. Mr. Monro asked the Minister of Power what consultations he had with the Chairman of the National Coal Board before the recent price increases of coal in Scotland. Mr. Marsh Both the Government and the Board believe it is desirable to secure a better correlation between the prices and costs of the various coalfields and the various coals, and this policy was supported by the National Board for Prices and Incomes in its recent Report on coal prices. My predecessor was in close touch with the Chairman of the National Coal Board when the price increases were under consideration. Sir G. Nabarro What influence will this substantial price increase have on the cost of living index measured during the next six months? Mr. Marsh I would require notice to answer that question. Mr. William Hamilton Does my right hon. Friend think that this discriminatory price increase in so far as it relates to Scotland will have the effect of expediting pit closures still further? If that is the case, what remedial steps are the Government taking by introducing and encouraging an influx of new industry into the areas? Mr. Marsh The first thing to bear in mind as to this policy is that the one thing which would damage the coal mining industry in general, not to say British industry as well, would be a situation where low-cost highly efficient coalfields were forced to average up to meet the costs incurred by perhaps less efficient coalfields. I do not think that this price increase will have a detrimental effect on the Scottish economy. Indeed, the Government would not support it if they thought it would. Mr. Monro Is the Minister aware that this increase in prices will make it much more difficult to attract coal-consuming industries to Scotland? Mr. Marsh The estimated additional total industrial cost should be under half of 1 per cent. Given the rest of the Government's policies, I do not think this will have a bad effect on the Scottish economy. Sir W. Bromley-Davenport Is not this another example of the failure of nationalised industry—worse quality and worse service at increased cost? Mr. Marsh The hon. and gallant Gentleman is consistent in his inability to understand the point. This has nothing to do with the efficiency or inefficiency of nationalised industry. 10. Mr. Edward M. Taylor asked the Minister of Power to what extent the pithead price of coal provided to domestic consumers by the Scottish Coal Board will differ from the average price charged in other areas when the price is raised on 1st May; and by what percentage the Scottish price exceeds the lowest figure for a comparable grade of coal supplied in other areas of Great Britain. Mr. Marsh The National Coal Board sell domestic coal not at pithead prices but at zone delivered prices, which include cost of transport from pithead to station depots. There are 60 zones, with different prices, in Great Britain. Domestic coal is grouped according to qualities, and there are five groups in England and Wales and seven in Scotland. In view of these complications, I have asked the Chairman of the National Coal Board to send the hon. Member a copy of the list of the prices which will come into effect on 1st May. Mr. Taylor Does the right hon. Gentleman not appreciate that I raised this question in the last Parliament and that the same answer was given? Is he seriously saying that the Prices and Incomes Board and the Ministry approved these staggering increases in Scotland without knowing what were the prices involved? Mr. Marsh The hon. Gentleman first of all asks to what extent the pithead price of coal provided to domestic consumers by the Scottish Coal Boad will differ from the average price in other areas. Domestic coal is not sold at pithead prices. It is sold at zone delivered prices. In any case, when one takes the zone delivered prices the complications are such that if the hon. Gentleman gets the figures together—and they will be sent to him by the Chairman of the National Coal Board—he will be able to work them out for himself. National Coal Board (Capital Investment Projects) 6. Mr. Patrick Jenkin asked the Minister of Power what steps the Government have taken, pursuant to recommendation 69 (v) of the Twelfth Report of the National Coal Board for Prices and Incomes, to assume greater responsibility for identifying and critically examining the assumptions on which the forecast of yield on new investment by the National Coal Board in diversification projects is based. Mr. Marsh This is a matter which I have under consideration and intend to discuss with the National Coal Board. Mr. Jenkin Will the right hon. Gentleman go ahead with this? Does he not realise that it is essential that there should be an accurate appraisal of investment projects, and could not the nationalised industries be giving a lead in such technique as the use of discounted cash flow and similar matters? Mr. Marsh I can only say that we are discussing this with the National Coal Board. We regard this as an important issue and are getting ahead with it as fast as we can. We have only got through the first two weeks so far. Domestic Coal Supplies (South-West Scotland) 9. Mr. Monro asked the Minister of Power what steps are being taken to see that adequate supplies of domestic coal are available to merchants in South-West Scotland. Dr. Bray With the advance of mechanisation the proportion of large coal has fallen. There are, however, plentiful supplies of "doubles", and these are now being accepted by merchants. Mr. Monro Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that some merchants are receiving only about one-third of their requirements and that this not only affects the domestic consumer but must also reduce sales at the pithead? Dr. Bray The position is that owing to the cold weather there has been a heavy demand for large coal, but there are plentiful supplies of the smaller graded coal known as "doubles", and these are now being accepted by merchants. Technology Machine Tool Orders (Report) 22. Mr. Biffen asked the Minister of Technology if he has received a report on the cyclical pattern of machine tool ordering from the Working Party appointed to study that subject; and if he will make a statement. The Minister of Technology (Mr. Frank Cousins) I have nothing to add to what I said in the House on this subject yesterday. Mr. Biffen How soon after publication of the report does the Minister hope to make a statement, and, in view of the financial implications which could be therein contained, will he make such a statement before publication of the Finance Bill? Mr. Cousins I said yesterday that I would publish the report of the Working Party as soon as possible. I intend to do so, and I do not think that the other implications arise. National Finance Musical Instruments (Tax) 23. Mr. Lomas asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will remove or reduce the Purchase Tax on musical instruments where these are used exclusively by schools and purchased through the appropriate education authorities. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Niall MacDermot) No, Sir. It is not practicable to make special concessions to particular users of taxable articles. Mr. Lomas Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that the total amount of revenue collected in tax on all musical instruments is only £1 million in a single year? Although this would be a small concession, it would be a valuable contribution to the musical education of children in our schools. Will my hon. and learned Friend look into it again? Mr. MacDermot I am aware of the fact to which my hon. Friend draws attention, and I think that I answered his Question about it in a Written Answer yesterday. The difficulty here is that one cannot consider one exemption which is proposed in isolation from the very many other requests which we receive to similar effect. There are, for example, many other articles used by local authorities which are subject to tax, including many used by schools, such as stationery and sports equipment. Sir G. Nabarro Why are pianos free of Purchase Tax and all other musical instruments taxed? Mr. MacDermot I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, with his vast experience in this subject, will know the answer. Sir G. Nabarro On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the Minister to question me? Surely, his duty is to answer me. Mr. Speaker Order. Nothing out of order has happened, and to raise points of order in Question Time uses up valuable time. Mr. Rankin As we have created a Ministry to promote the arts, and music is an art, why should we tax them? Dog Licences (Hounds) 24. Mr. Lomas asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why no licence is required for a hound bred for hunting until it is 12 months old. Mr. MacDermot The reason given to the House in 1878 was that it would be difficult to tell in under twelve months whether the animal would be a useful member of the pack. Mr. Lomas As something may have happened since 1878, I think that we might get round to changing that Measure. Would not my hon. and learned Friend agree that an element of social injustice is involved here, when the mongrel pup of an old-age pensioner is liable for a licence at six months but a hound bred for hunting—the unspeakable chasing the uneatable—can get away without the licence? Will he look into the matter again? Mr. MacDermot My hon. Friend should not mince his words. He will be interested to know that in 1878 this Measure was opposed as a gross piece of class legislation. All I can say in answer to his further question is that I cannot give any undertaking that my right hon. Friend will put this matter high in his list of priorities for tax reform. Newspapers 25. Mr. Frank Allaun asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in order to halt the growth in the monopoly control of the Press, by certain newspaper groups, he will encourage the survival of smaller circulation papers, such as the Sunday Citizen, by asking Departments to give an increased share of their advertising to such publications. Mr. MacDermot Advertising for Departments is placed with newspapers so as to achieve the required results in the most economical way, and by no other test. Mr. Allaun Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that out of £5¼ million on Government Press advertising last year, only £2,530 went to the Sunday Citizen and precisely £30 to Tribune? In view of the widespread concern on both sides of the House about shrinking Press freedom, does he think that this is adequate or even proportionate support for the remaining independent newspapers? Mr. MacDermot I shall be glad to give my hon. Friend further information about proportionate advertising. However, I assure the House that I think that we should get ourselves into real difficulties if we started to place advertising on any principle other than that of seeking to achieve the object at which the advertising is directed. Local Government Rates (Public Schools) 26. Mr. Roebuck asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will introduce legislation to end the anomaly under which public schools owned by corporate bodies and registered as charities are entitled to a 50 per cent. reduction in rates. The Minister of Housing and Local Government (Mr. Richard Crossman) No, Sir. I have some sympathy with the suggestion, but I feel that attempts to separate one sort of charity from others might lead to great difficulties. Mr. Roebuck Is my right hon. Friend aware that his attitude is contrary to that which was adopted by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary when the Rating and Valuation Act was before the House in 1961? Is he further aware that when the hard-pressed ratepayers in my constituency think of a charity their thoughts do not automatically fly to Harrow School? Mr. Crossman Yes, Sir; I am aware of this. I must admit that when I looked at the Oxford and Cambridge colleges I came to a different conclusion, but there were so many of them in the middle of such small cities, and public schools are so peppered over the community, that I think we should leave them as they are. Mr. Rippon Instead of giving sympathy to proposals for further increases in rates, will the right hon. Gentleman say when the Government propose to introduce legislation to reduce the total burden of rates, which has risen by an unprecedented amount under the Labour Government? Mr. Crossman I should like to congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his return to the House and to the Opposition Front Bench, and on the tone of his first question addressed to me. The answer is: yes, we shall have our second major rating Measure before the House before an undue delay has occurred. Middlesex 30. Mr. Gresham Cooke asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will introduce legislation to amend Section 3 of the London Government Act, 1963, in order to re-establish Middlesex as a geographical county with boundaries as they existed before the creation of the Greater London Council, so as to keep the identity of the county as a part of the United Kingdom, as the area serving such organisations as the Middlesex Regiment and the Middlesex Cricket Club. Mr. Crossman No, Sir. The London Government Act, 1963, and the Administration of Justice Act, 1964, make provision in Greater London for all the purposes for which elsewhere counties are statutorily established. The objects the hon. Member has in view do not require the statutory designation of Middlesex as a county. Mr. Gresham Cooke Will the right hon. Gentleman accept from me that there is a good deal of local feeling that Middlesex in some way should be retained as a geographical county, and when the next opportunity occurs of a Greater London Bill perhaps he will bear this in mind sympathetically and see whether geographical status can be given to the area? Mr. Crossman I am always looking back to see the virtues in the Bills of my predecessors, and I find that in a Bill of the previous Administration one of the five areas in Greater London for which a Commission of the Peace was established is still named the Middlesex area, and with that, I am sure, the hon. Gentleman should be content. Manchester Draft Water Order 31. Mr. Rose asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will now give a decision on the Manchester Draft Water Order. Mr. Crossman I hope to announce my decision soon. Mr. Rose While I welcome that reply, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he is aware that there is considerable anxiety in the North-West over the delay in reaching this decision? The Manchester scheme is held up every day that the reply is held up. Will he also say what consideration is being given to the long-term water needs of the whole of the north-west area? Mr. Crossman I very much appreciate what Manchester representatives are feeling about this. I would tell my hon. Friend, as I said in answer to a Question before the General Election, that this is one of the most difficult issues that we have had in which amenity really has to be considered very carefully in supplying water to Manchester. As for the long-term needs, these are indeed being taken into account already. Mr. Fletcher-Cooke When the right hon. Gentleman gives his answer, will it apply to the long term as well as the short term? Can we have it all in one go without further bites at the cherry? Mr. Crossman No, Sir; that would be impossible. What I am dealing with is a Draft Order. We have to approve or disapprove the Order without Amendment, and the Order can deal only with the medium term. It will be made clear that the long-term provision has to be dealt with separately. Mr. Mapp Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that to speak of "Manchester" here is very misleading? The Order has reference to about 31 authorities in the North-West leading up to the Lake District. Although the importance of Manchester is well understood, it is far more important for all the other authorities which will have powers arising out of the Order. Mr. Crossman My hon. Friend is quite right. What we call "the Manchester water need" is a need for a far greater area than Manchester, and I do not underestimate the urgency of the question. Sierra Leone (London Property Claim) 32. Sir Ian Orr-Ewing asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will make representations to the Sierra Leone Government concerning the outstanding claim for damages to a fiat in Edgware which was vacated by one of their diplomatic staff two years ago. The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (Mr. Arthur Bottomley) The Acting High Commissioner of Sierra Leone has been in correspondence with my Department about this matter and has also called to discuss it. The difficulty appears to be that the High Commission agreed to an original assessment of dilapidations at £60 18s. but could not accept a subsequent further bill for £324. A proposal for the appointment of an independent expert to assess the damage has apparently not been accepted, but I do not despair of the parties being able to reach agreement on the amount to be paid. Sir Ian Orr-Ewing Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I should not have put the Question on the Order Paper if it had not been that two years have already elapsed while the claim has been under consideration? The Minister of State, Commonwealth Relations Office, wrote more than six months ago to the High Commissioner suggesting that an independent surveyor should be appointed, and the High Commissioner has been pleading diplomatic immunity and diplomatic privilege. It is wrong that constituents should be deprived of a judgment and an assessment for such a long period and that the matter should be cloaked by diplomatic immunity. Will the right hon. Gentleman press the High Commissioner to come to an ordinary understanding to appoint an independent surveyor so that he can get on with the job? Mr. Bottomley The hon. Gentleman will be aware that he has had the fullest sympathy from my Department. A new High Commissioner is arriving from Sierra Leone, and we will do our best to bring the matter to his attention. Sir Ian Orr-Ewing On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If there is not an early resolving of the difficulty, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment. Mr. Speaker Notice should be given in the conventional way. Transport Written-Off Motor Vehicles 33. Mr. Kelley asked the Minister of Transport if she will seek power to ensure that the chassis of vehicles which have been written-off are not used in the construction or repair of any vehicle which will be put on sale to the public. The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. Stephen Swingler) I do not think that my hon. Friend's proposal solves the problem associated with insurance "write-offs". Because a vehicle is an insurance "write-off" it does not always follow that its chassis is beyond repair. Section 68 of the Road Traffic Act, 1960, already prohibits the sale of a vehicle if it is in an unroadworthy condition. Mr. Kelley Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the vehicles that are being sold are botched up jobs from total wrecks which have been written off by insurance companies and that they are a menace to road users? It is not only a matter of consumer protection; these are a menace to all users of the roads. Is my hon. Friend aware that some legislation is necessary to prevent such vehicles from being used on high-speed motorways? Mr. Swingler I would make it clear to my hon. Friend and the House that it is already an offence to sell a vehicle if it is in an unroadworthy condition, and if, therefore, what he says is true, offences are being committed and should be reported. We have made proposals to the insurance companies, which I cannot at the moment reveal, in order to tighten up the procedure for handling written-off vehicles. Mr. Mills Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this is a very real problem and that even in the West Country it is developing into a racket? Ought there not to be some form of registration of chassis and engine numbers at county halls so that licences are not given to such built-up cars in future? Mr. Swingler If the hon. Gentleman will report instances of this sort to us, we will deal with the matter, because it is clearly an offence now under the road traffic legislation to sell a vehicle in an unroadworthy condition. Mr. Maxwell While my hon. Friend is looking into it, will he also look at the problem of garages charging exorbitant rates for repairing vehicles which do not require any repair at all? Mr. Speaker That is another question. Mr. Deedes Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that this is a real scandal, widely acknowledged in the industry, which might be a suitable candidate for inclusion in the Road Safety Bill when it returns? Mr. Swingler As I have said, we have put proposals to the insurance companies and are discussing procedure for catching written-off vehicles. It may be, as a result of our discussions, that we shall put forward proposals for legislation. Ussr (Mr Gerald Brooke) 34. Mrs. Thatcher asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement concerning the proposed transfer of Mr. Gerald Brooke to a Soviet labour camp; and what further representations he has made to the Soviet Government for clemency. The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Michael Stewart) Since my right honourable Friend the Prime Minister spoke to Mr. Kosygin in February, we have continued to make repeated representations in Moscow and here about Mr. Brooke. The Prime Minister spoke to the Soviet Ambassador personally about it on 18th April. However, the Soviet Government have given no indication of willingness to release Mr. Brooke, except on conditions which are quite unreasonable, and have refused Mr. Brooke's request to be allowed to spend a second year in prison instead of being transferred to a labour camp. Certain other requests have also been refused. We shall continue to press the Soviet authorities, but I cannot offer much hope of success. As the situation is rather complex, I am circulating a more detailed note in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Mrs. Thatcher I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his assurance that he will not let the matter drop. Would not he agree, however, that if his future representations are to meet with more success than those he has made in the past, they must be made of much sterner stuff? Would he, therefore, not consider revising the Anglo-Russian Cultural Agreement? Mr. Stewart I know that that suggestion has been made, but we should be wary of taking action which would not help Mr. Brooke and which would simply make relations in general between this country and the Soviet Union more difficult. If I could be satisfied that action of this kind would be of real help to Mr. Brooke, the situation would be very different from what it now is. Mr. Peyton Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is rather a terrible thing when a Secretary of State can stand at the Dispatch Box and say that he cannot hold out any hopeful prospects in a matter of this kind? Does not he really think that further cultural exchanges should not be engaged upon indefinitely in view of a perfectly disgraceful state of affairs like this? Mr. Stewart I must draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the answer I have just given. I did not say that cultural relations would be continued indefinitely. I said that the suggestion of a complete break-off in cultural relations because of this incident would not, unhappily, be helpful.Following is the note:Since my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister spoke to Mr. Kosygin in February the Embassy in Moscow have continued to make repeated representations to the Soviet Government about Mr. Brooke. Her Majesty's Consul saw him in prison on the 4th of March and confirmed that the state of his health gave cause for concern. My noble Friend, Lord Chalfont, during his visit to Moscow at the end of March urged the Soviet Government to extend clemency to Mr. Brooke. In London the Foreign Office have raised the question with the Soviet Ambassador and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister also spoke to him about it and renewed the plea for clemency on 18th April.The Soviet Government have given no indication of willingness to release Mr. Brooke except on unreasonable conditions which they know to be totally unacceptable. They have refused Mr. Brooke's request to be allowed to spend a second year in prison instead of being transferred to a labour camp. In their view, labour camp is a less servere punishment than imprisonment. They have not given permission for the Consul to see him again before his transfer. They have also made it clear that he will not be granted the concessions he has hitherto enjoyed in the way of parcels and visits by his wife and Her Majesty's Consul in excess of the limits permitted by the Soviet regulations. The Soviet attitude is deeply disappointing and the Soviet Government should not underestimate the strength of feeling in this country on this issue. We will continue to press for Mr. Brooke's release, but I should not wish to give the House the impression that there has been any sign from the Soviet side that would justify optimism on ours.Mr. Brooke was convicted of an offence which would not be regarded as criminal in this country. British tourists who are thinking of visiting the Soviet Union should bear in mind the grave consequences which can follow from actions, which, although quite unexceptionable in this country, can be treated as State crimes in the Soviet Union. Advice on this point was given by my right hon. Friend (Mr. Thomson) in a written reply to a Question from the hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) on 2nd August, 1965. "Soe In France" (Stationery Office Publication) 35. Dame Irene Ward asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on what date the book on the Special Operations Executive in France is to be published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office; on what date review copies were sent to the newspapers; and on what date complimentary copies will be sent to those who played a part in its publication. Mr. M. Stewart "S.O.E. in France" is to be published on the 28th of April by Her Majesty's Stationery Office. Review copies were sent to the newspapers in the second week of April. Complimentary copies will be sent out the day before publication. Dame Irene Ward Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the general public do not agree with a person being able to ring up people involved in the book before the latter have had an opportunity of reading what is in the book? Does not he agree that it is an inefficient system of public relations that has allowed such an unhappy situation to develop? Mr. Stewart No, I do not. It is an almost universal practice with the publication of books that review copies and complimentary copies are sent out on the dates I mentioned. Lord Balniel Does the Foreign Secretary recollect that some time ago he gave an undertaking that all those who took part in the special operations covered by the book would be given an opportunity of commenting privately before publication? Was that undertaking implemented? Mr. Stewart I must say that I do not recollect that. I should want to consider that supplementary question further. Land And Natural Resources National Parks (Legislation) 36. Mr. Blenkinsop asked the Minister of Land and Natural Resources whether legislation will be introduced this year to amend the National Parks Act, so as to make better provision for the protection and enjoyment of the countryside of England and Wales. The Minister of Land and Natural Resources (Mr. Frederick Willey) I regret that it has not been found possible to include this measure in the legislative programme for this Session. Mr. Blenkinsop Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a good deal of disappointment about the delay over many years by successive Governments in introducing legislation on a subject about which there is wide general public agreement? We have had legislation for Scotland. Why not for England and Wales? Mr. Willey The position of Scotland is different. The National Parks Act does not apply there. My hon. Friend's disappointment is shared by the Government, but if he studies the Gracious Speech he will realise that it was not possible to include such legislation in the programme for this Session. Mr. Rippon Will time be found for the abolition of the right hon. Gentleman's Department? Does not he now consider that its establishment was a mistake? Rhodesia Q1. Sir Richard Glyn asked the Prime Minister what directions were given to the United Kingdom representative on the Security Council of the United Nations Organisation with regard to presenting the British resolution on 9th April. The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson) I would refer the hon. Member to my speech in the debate on the Address on Thursday last. Sir Richard Glyn Does not the Prime Minister agree that this resolution involved the proposition that supply to Rhodesia was a threat to peace? Will he tell us what steps he is taking actively to make it impossible for this doctrine to lead to an invasion of the British Commonwealth territory of Rhodesia from British Commonwealth territories such as Zambia, Malawi and Tanzania? The Prime Minister The resolution referred specifically to the question of oil tankers going through to Beira. It did not give authority to any country or any party involving an invasion of Rhodesia. Q9. Sir C. Taylor asked the Prime Minister whether he will give an assurance that he has no intention of using armed forces in Rhodesia, and that he will not request the use of force by the United Nations. The Prime Minister I would refer the hon. Member to the many statements I have made to the House on this subject. Sir C. Taylor Was it not in the first case a breach of faith that the United Kingdom Government, whose responsibility it is, should refer the matter to the United Nations? Secondly, if there is a proposal of the United Nations to use force, will Her Majesty's Government's representative at the United Nations vote against it? The Prime Minister There is no breach of faith in this matter, because the hon. Gentleman's Question refers to the use of armed forces in Rhodesia and we have always opposed the use of British Armed Forces or anybody else's armed forces in Rhodesia. We have made that clear and specifically said that action to stop oil going through was different from that; so there is no change. The answer to the second part of the question is that we have discussed this matter many times. It is hypothetical, of course, but we should be opposed to it. Mr. Sandys Does what the Prime Minister says mean quite clearly that if a proposal were made in the United Nations for the use of force the British representative would vote against it? The Prime Minister I have already said that that question is hypothetical. So far there is no such proposition before the United Nations. We will deal with it when it comes up. Doctors' And Dentists' Remuneration Review Body (Report) Q2. Dr. David Kerr asked the Prime Minister whether he has received the latest report of the Review Body on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration; and if he will make a statement. The Prime Minister Yes, Sir, and it is being urgently studied. Dr. Kerr Will my right hon. Friend not end the uncertainty about whether these recommendations might be referred to the Prices and Incomes Board? Is he aware that such a step would prejudice the confidence which the Minister of Health has built up so splendidly among doctors in recent times? We look forward to an early statement. The Prime Minister I am sure that confidence is in no way in jeopardy, but a report of this degree of importance requires careful study. It is being studied urgently. Miss Pike Will the Prime Minister clear up two important points? As the doctors have been led to understand that the Government would accept this report, will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the Government will honour that undertaking? Secondly, will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that he will not refer this matter to the Prices and Incomes Board? The Prime Minister Every assurance that has been given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health will be fully honoured so far as the implementation of this report is concerned. With regard to the second part of the hon. Lady's supplementary question, I would ask her to wait until we have had time fully to study the report. Mr. Lubbock Can the Prime Minister say roughly when he expects to make a statement to the House on the report? Is he aware that the doctors are entitled to an increase above 3½ per cent. under the Prices and Incomes White Paper, paragraph 15(2)? The Prime Minister All these considerations will no doubt have been taken into account by the Review Body, and they will be taken into account by the Government. We are, as I have said, considering the report urgently. We shall make a statement in the very near future, but I cannot give an exact date today. North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Q3. Mr. Eldon Griffiths asked the Prime Minister if he will invite the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation to establish its European headquarters in Great Britain. The Prime Minister This is certainly a possibility, but I think we should first wait to see how matters develop. Such a decision would, of course, have to be taken by the allies collectively. Mr. Griffiths Would not the Prime Minister agree that the actions of the French President have caused a genuine crisis in N.A.T.O.? What are the British Government doing about it? The Prime Minister Similar Questions were put to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary yesterday, including the question of the siting of N.A.T.O. headquarters, and my right hon. Friend answered them. My right hon. Friend said that it would be more helpful if the case could be dealt with more fully in the debate today. Sir G. de Freitas Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the matters affecting President de Gaulle is the overwhelming power and influence of the English-speaking members of the alliance? May there not be something to be said for siting the headquarters on the Continent, possibly in Brussels? The Prime Minister There are a number of things to consider, but first we have to look at the basic issues raised by the French position before we start even considering any question of siting. But the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Sir G. de Freitas) is one of the important aspects that need to be considered collectively. Mr. Zilliacus In considering the crisis in N.A.T.O., will my right hon. Friend apply the Government's principle that defence must be the servant and not the master of foreign policy and accordingly refuse to accept any further military obligations in N.A.T.O., failing agreement on Labour's proposals for a European settlement? The Prime Minister We shall certainly apply the Government's principles, but to do everything my hon. Friend suggests would be to make defence the enemy of foreign policy. European Economic Community (Ministerial Responsibility) Q4. Mr. Eldon Griffiths asked the Prime Minister what are the duties of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, respectively, as regards relations with the European Economic Community. The Prime Minister I would refer the hon. Member to my speech in the debate on the Address last Thursday. Mr. Griffiths Will the Prime Minister make it clear that this proliferation of Ministers is designed not to by-pass the Foreign Secretary but to get this country into Europe as soon as is practicable? The Prime Minister My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster continues to be a Foreign Office Minister and will be working directly under the guidance of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary. But, of course, there are economic considerations. As for the job they have been given; I cannot improve on what I said last Friday as to their relations with Europe. Vietnam Q5. Mr. Heffer asked the Prime Minister, following the recent bombing of Hanoi by the United States Air Force, if he will make representations opposing this action to the United States Government, in pursuance of his policy of achieving peace in Vietnam; and if he will make a statement. The Prime Minister So far as I am aware Hanoi has not been bombed, Sir. Mr. Heffer Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the bombing of the outskirts of Hanoi took place and that this stepping up of the war in Vietnam is highly dangerous? As the Australian Labour Party and an increasing number of American liberals are showing their complete opposition to the war in Vietnam, is it not time that the British Government completely dissociated themselves from American policy in this connection? The Prime Minister I take it that my hon. Friend is referring to the incident last week when United States planes bombed two missile sites, about 17 miles from Hanoi, which were firing at the time on other United States planes bombing a more distant and military target. Nothing that happened last week involves any change in established United States policy towards Vietnam. I have answered the wider question a number of times. There is no change in Her Majesty's Government position. Sir Ian Orr-Ewing Is the Prime Minister aware that he would have the great support of many hon. Members on this side of the House if he told his own Left wing that we have found that appeasement does not pay? The Prime Minister I do not think that these very difficult issues can be simplified in the way in which the hon. Gentleman suggests. I have tried to explain many times, not only to my hon. Friends but to some hon. Members opposite, exactly where the difficulty lies in trying to get a solution of the Vietnam question. It lies in Hanoi, a point not fully appreciated in more than one part of the House. House Of Lords (Reform) Q6. Mr. William Hamilton asked the Prime Minister whether he will introduce legislation dealing with House of Lords reform. The Prime Minister When it becomes necessary, Sir. Mr. Hamilton Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Preamble to the 1911 Parliament Act said much the same thing? Why is the Prime Minister so coy on this issue? Will he give an assurance that if the legislation is not introduced this Session, as I hope it will be, when it is introduced it will be fundamental legislation dealing with the Lords once and for all and not dealing simply with the present delaying powers? The Prime Minister I think that the Preamble to the 1911 Act said that this matter "brooks no delay"—I believe that those are the exact words—but it has been brooking delay for a long time since. We regard this as an entirely practical matter. We have even more urgent legislation in the Queen's Speech, but we would certainly be prepared to take whatever steps were necessary if important legislation endorsed by this House, or any other sort of action by this House, were frustrated by another place. Mr. Shinwell I am sure that my right hon. Friend will agree that in the course of the next five years there will be ample time to abolish the hereditary principle in the House of Lords. The Prime Minister What we are committed to do—and this was put to the country in the General Election, of course—relates to measures to safeguard Bills and other measures approved by the Commons from frustration or delay or defeat in another place. There are many different views about what, if any, particular kind of constitutional reform, quite apart from that of the powers, would be appropriate, if that subject were to be considered by this House. Mr. Longden Would not the Prime Minister agree that in recent times the other place has shown itself to be so "with it" that we cannot afford to be without it? House Of Commons (Specialist Committees) Q7. Mr. William Hamilton asked the Prime Minister whether, in order to strengthen the powers of the legislature in relation to those of the executive branch of government, he will move to appoint specialist committees of Members of the House of Commons with full powers to interrogate Ministers of the Crown on policy matters and to publish full reports of their evidence. The Prime Minister I would refer my hon. Friend to my speech in the debate on the Address on 21st April. Mr. Hamilton Is the Prime Minister aware that I have read that at least a dozen times and that the more times I read it the less I like it? Can he say what persuaded him to accept virtually verbatim the recommendations of an outside body and reject the recommendations of our own Select Committee on procedure? Will he undertake that what he said last Thursday was not a firm proposition, namely, that evidence would not be reported back to the House necessarily by such committees as he has proposed? The Prime Minister I do not know to what outside body my hon. Friend is referring as having had its advice accepted. Certainly what I suggested last week was for discussion among the different parties and points of view in the House and was not put forward as an absolutely firm proposal which we would try to railroad through the House. The point my hon. Friend has mentioned is a matter for discussion. For example, it has been found useful in the case of the Public Accounts Committee for the Financial Secretary to be a member, although his contributions are not reported. Of course, it may well be that if Ministers were discussing these problems, or even giving evidence, it would be better not to publish the evidence. It is very arguable. Mr. Crimond Will the Prime Minister say why this proposal was not included in the Gracious Speech? Secondly, can he say whether the idea which he outlined in his own speech refers to the specialist committees of the type mentioned in the Question, or simply to ad hoc committees appointed for a particular period to investigate a particular matter? The Prime Minister What I was putting forward was that the House might wish to operate this idea of having one or two specialist committees covering particular Departments—this is quite apart from the regional committees which were proposed—and we would then treat that as an experiment. If the experiment succeeded, we might widen the idea to other committees and extend their period of existence for many years. London Transport Services (Ministerial Responsibility) Q8. Mr. Roebuck asked the Prime Minister if he will take steps, by legislation or otherwise, to appoint an additional Minister to the Ministry of Transport with the special duties of integrating and developing transport services in the Greater London area. The Prime Minister No, Sir. When I recommended that there be two Parliamentary Secretaries in the Commons I specifically had it in mind that one of them would be able to devote a great deal of his time to handling the traffic problems of our great conurbations, including London. Prime Minister Of India (Talks) Q10. Dame Joan Vickers asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement concerning his talks with the Prime Minister of India; and whether Her Majesty's Government is prepared to give aid for any project, such as an irrigation scheme, to help with the future production of food. The Prime Minister I would refer the hon. Lady to the statement issued after the meeting, a copy of which is in the Library. In addition, I am sure the House will be glad to know that we have now offered to make immediately available to the Government of India £17 million of non-project aid, details of which I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Dame Joan Vickers I thank the Prime Minister for his reply. Will he not agree that the food shortage and the shortage of foreign currency are the most difficult problems for India at the moment? Can he not try to help with the special irrigation problems to overcome this difficulty? The Prime Minister This problem has been fully debated in the House on two or three recent occasions and hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of the House have stressed that this is the priority. Of the money which we are now giving in advance of our 1966-67 pledge in the consortium, £10 million is a general purpose loan for the Indians to use in whatever way seems most helpful for dealing with their urgent problems.Following are the details:The £17 million of non-project aid is an advance instalment of our 1966-67 pledge in the Aid to India Consortium. £10 million of this sum will be a general purpose loan. This offer, which has been accepted with pleasure by the Government of India, is additional to the £7½ million already provided to meet the special needs arising out of the Indian food shortage. Prime Minister Of Singapore (Talks) Q11. Mr. Dalyell asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his official talks with the Prime Minister of Singapore. The Prime Minister My colleagues and I were very pleased to welcome the Prime Minister of Singapore on his first visit to this country since Singapore became a separate independent member of the Commonwealth last year. We had friendly, informal discussions on matters of common concern. It is not the practice to issue any detailed statement on confidential talks with other Commonwealth Prime Ministers. Industrial Productivity Q12. Mr. Maxwell asked the Prime Minister what are the composition of and the date on which he proposes to call the National Conference on Productivity to deal with the extension throughout industry of pay and productivity councils; and if he will make a statement. The Prime Minister I am hoping to hold a National Industrial Conference on Productivity in the near future. We shall be consulting industry about its constitution and I shall inform the House when these consultations are completed. Mr. Maxwell Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that one of the major problems is how to get trade union leaders and men on the shop floor to accept the responsibility, besides improvements in wages and working conditions, for increasing productivity? Would he say in what way he might be able to stimulate their acceptance of that responsibility? The Prime Minister I agree that this is the most difficult problem of all. I dealt with this question at some length when I addressed the Scottish T.U.C. in Aberdeen last week. I agree that one of the ways is that suggested by my hon. Friend in the Question—linking pay to productivity and productivity to pay. But many of the problems are purely local in character. This is the most difficult and intransigent part of the whole situation. Captain W. Elliot Does the Prime Minister agree that one of the best ways of achieving an increase in productivity is to allow those concerned to keep a greater proportion of the fruits of their earnings? The Prime Minister This matter has been argued at length over past years. Various experiments in that direction have been made in successive years with varying results. But the hon. and gallant Gentleman would not expect me to anticipate the statement of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer next week. Amendment To The Address (Correction) Mr. Ensor On a point of order. May I draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to an Amendment to the Address which appears on today's Order Paper in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Michael Foot) and a number of other Members? Included in that list of names is my own. I was not asked to sign this Amendment. I did not sign it. I ask for your direction, Sir, on this matter. I have had a very generous and kindly letter from the Table Office. This is undoubtedly an unfortunate mistake, but I feel that your attention, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, should be drawn to a matter which might, in a certain eventuality, be extremely difficult. Mr. Speaker I am grateful to the hon. Member. This is obviously just an error. The hon. Gentleman has corrected it by speech. It will be corrected in the record tomorrow. Bill Presented Reserve Forces Bill to make further provision with respect to reserve forces, associations established for the purposes of the Auxiliary Forces Act 1953, the discharge of men of the regular army and air force and the qualifications for appointment as deputy lieutenant; and for purposes connected with the matters aforesaid, presented by Mr. Denis Healey; supported by Mr. Roy Jenkins, Mr. William Ross, Mr. G. W. Reynolds, and the Attorney General; read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow and to be printed. [Bill 6.]