Education Philosophical Society Of England 13. Mr. Driberg asked the Minister of Education what grants are made by her Department to the Philosophical Society of England. The Minister of Education (Miss Florence Horsbrugh) None, Sir. Mr. Driberg May I ask the right hon. Lady whether she saw Professor Ryle's exposure in a recent issue of the "Spectator" of this completely bogus organisation, and are there any steps which she can take to protect the public from confusion which may be caused by the activities of these degree-hawking impostors? Miss Horsbugh Unless this society applies to me for a grant, I am afraid that I have no business to inquire into it, but I have been interested to read some of the statements which I have found in various papers. Building Programme, Slough 16. Mr. Fenner Brockway asked the Minister of Education why three new schools which had been included in the Slough building programme are to be cut out by order of her Department; and whether she will reconsider this decision. Miss Horsbrugh There has been delay in the development of the new housing estates which will be served by these schools. According to my information the two new schools included in the current school building programme will suffice for the time being. Mr. Brockway Is the right hon. Lady aware that housing has been held up in Slough because of the absence of drainage; that, when that drainage scheme is completed, there will be not only a big scheme for Slough itself but also two large L.C.C. estates; that the schools are already crowded; and that unless these buildings are put up there will not be places for at least 2,000 children? Miss Horsbrugh I am informed that two years ago it was estimated that 2,000 houses would be completed at Langley and Farnham Royal by the end of 1953, but now the London County Council do not expect to have completed more than 900 by the end of 1953. We are keeping in close touch and trying to see that the provision of schools synchronises with the completion of houses. Mr. C. W. Gibson To some extent the reply given by the right hon. Lady is correct, but are not the difficulties about the sewers the reason for the delay? Unless some authority is given for an early date to commence the building of these schools, a large number of London children living in the houses which are built will have no school to go to within the next 12 or 18 months. Will the right hon. Lady look into the matter a little more closely and try to synchronise the building of the schools and the houses more closely? Miss Horsbrugh That is exactly what I am doing. As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, there has been a delay in housing. The fact that the delay has occurred has nothing to do with me. We are trying to synchronise the building. I shall certainly consider including the further projects for the area in the school building programme for 1953–54. Equipment, Slough 17. Mr. Fenner Brockway asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that, to meet the cuts in education equipment in Slough, the parents and teachers of two schools are organising jumble sales to enable the equipment to be maintained; and whether she will instruct the Buckinghamshire County Council to reconsider its allocation for educational equipment. Miss Horsbrugh I understand from the authority that there is no reason to suggest that the schools will be prevented from obtaining essential educational equipment. Mr. Brockway Might I draw the attention of the Minister to the statements of the headmasters of these schools, who have asked that these jumble sales shall be held because the cut in the programme for this year means that they will be without equipment? While that is admirable action on the part of the headmasters and the parents, is it not a humiliation to our national education scheme that resort is needed to methods of this kind? Miss Horsbrugh Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that the authority's estimates for 1952–53 as compared with 1951–52 have been increased, for the provision of books, stationery and materials, from £4,600 to £7,200 in the case of primary schools and from about £4,600 to over £6,000 in the case of secondary schools. Mr. Kenneth Thompson Is it not a fact that over the last five or six years, and in some cases for even longer, efforts of this kind have been organised on behalf of a great many schools in the country, very largely by parent-teacher associations and like bodies? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that they have done magnificent work in helping many schools out of great difficulties for a long time? Miss Horsbrugh I know that it has been, and is, a common practice to raise by voluntary methods funds for certain things which schools would like to have as extras. However, I assure hon. Gentlemen that there has been this increase in the estimates for books, stationery and materials. Mr. Brockway Is the Minister aware that there has been a cut in this year's estimate for this purpose in the Buckinghamshire County Council area, and the facts that she gives about the latest estimate—the original estimate was cut after the receipt of her circular by the county council—are accounted for by the increase in the school population and for the extra prices for equipment in the schools? Miss Horsbrugh I quite agree with the hon. Gentleman that the reason we are spending more on education than ever before is because there has been this increase in the school population and because costs have gone up. Residential Special Schools (Maintenance Contributions) 21. Mr. Peter Remnant asked the Minister of Education whether she will introduce legislation to enable parents to be required to make some contribution towards maintenance where children are accommodated in residential special schools. Miss Horsbrugh I am not yet ready to introduce any legislative proposals, but in preparing them I will consider this suggestion along with any others that may be put to me. Mr. Remnant Is my right hon. Friend aware, as I am sure she is, that in nonresidential schools the parents have had to contribute to maintenance as distinct from the education, and it seems unreasonable that because a child is in a residential centre the parents should make no contribution, as they would have done if the child were at a non-residential school? Miss Horsbrugh I am aware of that, and as I have already said, I wish to consider the various suggestions that are put to me before I make any proposals for legislation. Nursery Schools, Yeovil And Chard 22. Mr. John Peyton asked the Minister of Education whether she will refuse to sanction the decision of the Somerset County Council to close nursery schools at Yeovil and Chard. Miss Horsbrugh I am considering the local education authority's proposal, of which I have just been informed, to close eight out of the 10 nursery schools which they maintain, including that at Chard and one of the two at Yeovil. Mr. Peyton Is my right hon. Friend aware that the result of this proposal, if approved, will be very considerable hardship to the children and parents involved, and has she satisfied herself that adequate inquiries were first made by the Somerset County Council? Miss Horsbrugh As I have said, I have only just received the proposal. It was sent to me on 4th April, and I shall look into all the details about the proposed closing of these nursery schools. Mr. G. Thomas Is the Minister aware that it was her own circular which inspired this authority and other similarly minded authorities to reduce the facilities that are considered essential in the educational world? Miss Horsbrugh As I think the hon. Gentleman knows, these schools cannot be closed unless the approval of the Minister is given. As I have said, I am looking into all these cases, but I only received this communication on 4th April. Schoolchildren's Fares, London 23. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton asked the Minister of Education whether she has agreed to the request of the London County Council to continue the payment of fares of children under eight years of age resident more than one-and-half miles from the schools at which they attend. Miss Horsbrugh Yes, Sir. Expenditure 25. Mr. Eric Fletcher asked the Minister of Education whether, in view of the growing public feeling against the cuts in the education service, as demonstrated by the results of the county council elections, she will now review her policy of making cuts in these services. Miss Horsbrugh No, Sir. I invited local education authorities to co-operate with me in reducing the rate of increase in their expenditure as shown in the forecasts for 1952–53 and concentrating their resources on the essentials of the education service. I can find no grounds for reviewing this policy. Mr. Fletcher But is the right hon. Lady not aware that the education cuts were a dominant issue in many of the county council elections, particularly in London, and in view of the overwhelming Labour success throughout the country, is it not the duty of the right hon. Lady to review her whole policy and have regard to the determination of public opinion that the educational services shall be maintained and increased? Miss Horsbrugh When the hon. Member speaks of cuts, he realises that a great many people who did not take the trouble to understand my circular thought that there was going to be a decrease in local authority spending on education this year as compared with last year. The people in London were not fully informed that the real situation was that there was an increase of expenditure by the local education authorities this year of £14 million, which is an increase of over 5 per cent., and not a decrease. Sir Harold Webbe Is the Minister aware that any effect that these educational proposals may have had on the election in London is due simply to the gross misrepresentation which has been going on for so many years, and which is characteristic of the Socialist Party? Lieut.-Colonel Lipton Is the Minister aware that the answer that she gave to my previous Question on the subject of school fares shows that there was an attempt on the part of her Department to persuade the London County Council to effect a rather nauseating economy at the expense of children under eight years of age, and either make them walk the whole distance to school or pay all or part of the fare, and that she has now changed her mind? Miss Horsbrugh No. I should like to make it quite clear to the hon. and gallant Gentleman that it is not a case of changing my mind. I asked the local authorities to look into the subject of their transport charges, which my predecessor two years ago said were much too high, and which are higher now. The London County Council have sent me a statement of certain things that they wish to continue to do. I have acknowledged their letter, and I have not directed that there should be changes where they make slight alterations or variations for school children of certain ages. Mr. Shinwell Am I to understand from what the right hon. Lady has said, and from the cheers which greeted some of her observations, that the Government are not the least disturbed by the results of the County Council elections? Miss Horsbrugh I am not in the least disturbed that some people say there has been a cut in expenditure in education, because I know that that is completely untrue. There has been an increase. Hop Picking (School Holidays) 26. Mr. G. Williams asked the Minister of Education what instructions she has issued to education authorities as to the granting of extra holidays to the children of hop-pickers during the hop-picking season. Miss Horsbrugh The authorities likely to be concerned were recently reminded that they can help in securing adult labour for hop-picking by allowing local variations in the dates for school holidays and by granting children leave of absence for up to 14 days to accompany their parents on a hop-picking holiday. Mr. Williams Is the Minister aware that there have been quite a number of prosecutions? I know the case is a very difficult one, but, if it is not possible to extend the holidays, will she ask the local authorities to treat such cases where children have to go with their parents to the hop-picking fields with very great leniency? Miss Horsbrugh My hon. Friend will realise that the enforcement of school attendance is the responsibility of the local education authority, and it would not be proper for me to interfere with their discretion. I shall certainly look into any particular point which my hon. Friend would like to bring to my notice. General Certificate Examination 27. Mr. Doughty asked the Minister of Education whether she has now decided to relax the age limit of 16 years for those pupils who wish to take the general certificate of education. Miss Horsbrugh I have nothing at this stage to add to the answer I gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Norfolk, Central (Brigadier Medlicott), on 6th March. Mr. Doughty In view of the great anxiety felt about this question by parents, will my hon. Friend expedite her decision in this matter as much as possible? Miss Horsbrugh I will do my best to decide as quickly as possible as soon as the report from Secondary School Examinations Council comes through. Mr. Ralph Morley Is the Minister aware that the recommendation fixing the age for taking the examination at 16 was the unanimous decision of the Secondary Schools Examination Council, and will she pause and reflect and weigh everything carefully before she agrees to the reactionary proposal to reduce the age limit? Miss Horsbrugh Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that, soon after I took office as Minister of Education, I was informed by the Secondary Schools Examination Council that they had decided to review the situation in the light of their experience. They said they would then report to me. I am now awaiting their report. When I receive that report, I will make up my mind about it as quickly as possible. Sir H. Williams Will the right hon. Lady ask the Secondary Schools Examination Council to advise us as to whether hares and tortoises always run at the same speed?