moved, that the order of the day be read, for the house resolving itself into a committee of the whole house, to consider further of ways and means for raising the supply granted to his Majesty. The order having been read, the right hon. gent. then moved, that the several accounts of Customs and Excise, presented to this house in this session of parliament, and of the produce of the war taxes, be referred to the said committee. Ordered. The Speaker having left the Chair,

rose, and addressed the committee as follows: Sir; it is my duty now to lay before the committee, the ways and means which I think it incumbent on me to recommend, towards raising the supplies voted for the service of the present year. But before I submit these ways and means to the consideration of the committee, it is necessary for me to advert to the system adopted last year for discharging the expences of the country during the war. It seemed then to be the general opinion, that no system was so advantageous as that which should prevent the evil of any accumulation of the public debt, and at the same time enable the country to maintain its exertions, however long the contest may continue, which it has been compelled to enter into in support of its honour and independence. The means which were then resorted to, were calculated for the maintenance of public credit and great national exertion, as long as the enemy may be disposed to continue the struggle into which his inordinate ambition and unreasonable pretensions have forced us. It was on these principles that I recommended to the house, and on these principles that the house, at my recommendation, acceded to the ways and means adopted for raising the supplies in the last year. I stated, Sir, when I had last the honour of addressing the committee on this subject, that if towards raising a supply of 26,000,000l. for the service of the year, the house should be of opinion to raise 10,000,000l. by war taxes, it would be possible to provide for the public service, without any addition to the public debt, by the aid of the supply which I was justified in calculating on, as the probable surplus of the consolidated fund, and the sums in the hands of the commissioners of the public debt, and the sums derivable from the commissioners for the redemption of the land tax. That this system was calculated to produce the effects attributed to it, nobody will deny; that it has produced the happiest effects is most unquestionable. It will be recollected, Sir, that when the country at the commencement of the last war, experienced an interruption of its commerce, and a considerable pressure on the large stock of West India produce then on hand, had it not been for the application of a considerable part of the capital for the support of commercial credit, infinite mischief and extensive ruin must have ensued. I am ready to agree in the necessity of affording such relief in case of pressing emergency; but I contend that it never should be afforded except in case of real emergency. The loan which was then granted by the country to rescue a great part of the commercial interest from ruin, but which at the same time locked up a large portion of the means of the country, and rendered it unavailable for the public service, was, I am sure, wisely given by this house in that instance, but it created too great a confidence in the merchants of the country to look back generally to parliament for aid in difficult times. It was necessary to discourage this idea, and to teach the merchants and manufacturers to look to themselves, to act with caution in their prosperity, and to form for themselves resources on which they might rely, if times less propitious should ensue. I have adverted to this, Sir, because I wish it to be understood, that all commercial difficulties are now removed, and the small amount of the loan last year, and the system then adopted, had a considerable share in enabling the commerce of the country to go on, without any claim of aid from the public purse. I am not desirous, Sir, to take up the time of the house with recapitulating the benefits resulting from this system generally, but I am desirous of shewing that the principle has been attended with a success equal to what the most sanguine expectation could calculate. I come now, Sir, to the ways and means for the service of the last year, which consisted of war taxes estimated at 12,500,000l. of which 8,000,000l. was calculated on the additional duties of customs and excise, and 4,500,000l. from the duties on property. I stated at that time, that it was necessary to make a large allowance for a probable defalcation from the estimate, in consequence of the lapse of time before those taxes could be brought to bear, and I stated, that if the actual produce should amount to 10,000,000l. my hopes would be, in this instance, fully gratified. In the course of the discussion, which took place in the various stages of the latter measure, the house determined to grant very considerable exemptions, and all income under 150l. a-year, arising from the public funds, was freed from contribution. This necessarily involved a large deduction from the produce originally looked for from this tax. I do not mean to question the wisdom of the resolution adopted by this house in that instance, but merely to state, that its prac- tical effect has been to diminish very considerably the produce of the tax, to an amount which, when I state it at one million, I am sure I state it rather below than above the fact. Thus the tax on property, which I originally estimated at 4,500,000l. could not, after this exemption, even on my own principles, be expected to produce mere than 3,500,000l. Adding these 3,500,000l. to the new duties on excise and customs, estimated at 8,000,000l. the whole was 11,500,000l. But when I had calculated on a real produce of no more than 10,000,000l. from the full estimate of 12,500,000l. it could not be expected that after the reduction I allude to, a greater sum could be realised than 9,000,000l. I will now state the grounds on which I calculate the produce of the other part of this supply. The actual amount of the additional duties on exports and imports; malt, wine, and foreign teas, for the last 6 months, was 2,221,600l. There was a very large sum outstanding on all the articles but tea; the whole produce of the half year, including the outstanding, was 4,389,200l. which, for the annual estimated produce of 8,000,000l. gave ground to calculate an actual produce of 8,778,400l. I do not, however, think it justifiable to take it at the full amount. The stock in hand of malt and wine has been perhaps over-rated, and the retail dealers in malt and wine have been relieved, where the burden was oppressive; the stock of foreign spirits has been also probably overrated, as well as the arrears outstanding for part of the stock on which these arrears are calculated, may be re-exported. But upon the best consideration, taking every probable deduction into the account, the whole together will not amount to more than 578,000l. which being taken from the produce of 8,778,000l. calculated for the year from the produce of the half year, leaves a residue of 8,200,000l. which may be fairly calculated on as the real annual produce. Now, Sir, I will state the grounds on which I rely for the future produce of the tax on property; and, first, I have the satisfaction to state to the committee, that the tax attaches to property of the first class, to the amount of 120,000,000l. instead of 80,000,000l. which was the amount of the property assessed under the income tax. When the commercial assessments are added, the amount will be double. The gross assessment amounts, to 6,000,000l. annually, and allowing for deductions and exemptions, I am sure I do not exaggerate the probable amount, when I state it at 4,800,000l. That being the case, I am entitled to calculate that these taxes, which I estimated at first at 10,000,000l. which, upon a deduction for the diminution of the property tax, I calculated at 9,000,000l. will in future yield a produce of 12,500,000l., as upon the data I have stated, they amount to not less than 12,000,000l.; that is, 8,200,000l. arising from the customs and excise, and 4,800,000l. from the property tax. The inference I draw from this is, that it holds forth a strong inducement to persevere in that system which was so wisely adopted in the last session. I had further stated, that the actual increase of debt in the last year was 3,500,000l. which may be reduced to less than 2,000,000l. as more than that amount should be allowed for the general deficiency before the war taxes became productive. I was represented as over sanguine in calculating for the first half year of the war taxes at 4,500,000l. I admit there have been great and unfortunate delays, with respect to the tax on property, but there were similar delays with respect to the income tax; but I have the satisfaction to say, that on the 30th of April, the produce of the war taxes was only 112,000l. short of what I calculated it, with all the circumstances of disadvantage under which they had laboured. Another apprehension had been entertained, and apparently on reasonable grounds, that the adoption of such a system would interfere materially with the produce of the permanent taxes. I admit that a fair experiment has not yet been made on this head: in six months, 4,388,000l. has been collected from these taxes; but till the completion of the year, it cannot be exactly known what then effect will be on the permanent taxes But when gent. recollect the circumstances of last year, the stagnation of commerce during the negotiations, and on the commencement of the war, the aggregate was extremely satisfactory; it would be more abundantly so, if the causes I have added to had not operated. It may be more satisfactory to compare the produce of the permanent taxes, taxes imposed previous to them year 1793, in the year ending 5th Jan. 1803, and the produce of the same taxes in the year ending Jan. 5, 1804. In the former they had produced 15,425,000l. in the latter they had produced 15,400,000l. being a difference of only 25,000l. and this is a comparison with the most favourable year before the war. I am justified in stating the produce of last year as high as I have done; for though only 14,984,000l. was paid into the Exchequer, I am entitled to add 416,000l. for drawbacks on sugar not belonging to the year. The drawbacks are payable only on the certificate of the British consul at the port to which the consignment is made; and as the presentation of these certificates is very irregular, the payment of the drawbacks fall heavier at some times, and in some years, than in others. And thus it was that in the last year 416,000l. was paid on this account beyond what ought to fall within the year; I am therefore justified in adding that sum to the amount of the permanent taxes of last year. But that is not sufficient to ascertain whether the permanent taxes will be affected by the war taxes. I wish now to compare the year ending the 5th of Jan. 1803, with that ending the 5th of Jan. 1804, deducting all the taxes imposed in 1802 and 1803, as I wish the comparison to be exclusive of them. The permanent taxes amounted on the 5th of Jan. 1803, to 28,209,000l. and on the 5th of Jan. 1804, to 30,676,000l. deducting the duties imposed in 1802, which were 1,957,000l. and those imposed in 1803, which, including the former, amounted to 4,782,000l. the account will stand thus. Total amount of the permanent taxes in the year ending 5th of Jan. 1803, 26,252,000l. in the year ending the 5th of Jan. 1804, with the addition of the drawbacks I have alluded to, 26,369,000l. exceeding the last year in the whole amount of the permanent taxes. In addition to this, I might state a further sum, in consequence of the outstanding excise and customs, on the 5th of Jan. 1804, from the whole of which I am justified in saying, that the produce of the permanent taxes is increased. There is no indication of their having suffered by the pressure of the present war; and we have, besides the experience of the last war, during which the increase of the permanent taxes arrived at an unexampled height, by means of the measures adopted by Parliament, which not only added to the resources of the country, what they themselves produced, but also invigorated every other part of our financial system. I, have stated these preliminaries, and offered these observations, for the purpose of justifying the system the house entered into last session, and for the purpose of encouraging and imploring them to adhere to it steadily, as a solid basis of public credit, a sure ground of confidence at home, and of respect abroad, which must have the effect of shortening the contest in which we are engaged, from the conviction which it must produce, that our finances are not to be exhausted either by the enemy's hostility, continue how long it may, or by the magnitude of our own exertions.—Haying made these few preliminary observations, I now proceed to state the supply and ways and means of the present year.

what I have on a former occasion on the subject of exchequer bills outstanding, exclusive of 3,000,000l. in the possession of the Bank, to pay for the renewal of the charter in 1806.

Ways and Means

I come now to the ways and means for raising the supply, which are as follow: malt duty, already voted, 750,000l.; duty on pensions, offices, &c. 2,000,000l.; surplus of ways and means 1803, already voted, 1,370,000l.; war taxes, arising from the customs and excise, 8,200,000l. I think it necessary to state, as some objections may be started to the estimated amount of the property tax, that it is calculated, not according to the full produce of two years, which, at 4,800,000l. each year, Would produce in two years 9,600,000l. I deduct from the produce of two years what is now received, 363,000l. and the probable arrears, 5th of April 1805, 2,000,000l. and thus diminish the amount on the whole 9,600,000l. by a deduction of 2,363,000l. I calculate, therefore on a produce from this tax, on the 5th of April, 1805, of 7,237,000l. but shall take it at a round sum of 7,000,000l. I see, no reason to doubt its realising this statement, which I look upon as extremely moderate. This, added to 8,200,000l. amount of war taxes on customs and excise, will give towards the supply of the year, 15,200,000l. Deduct 760,000l. to complete the grant of 1803, there will remain an amount of duties arising from customs, excise, and property, of 14,440,000l. which may be calculated upon as the probable produce of the war taxes on the 5th of April, 1805.

NEW TAXES.

If the house feels the benefit of the system adopted last year, I hope it will not be disinclined to invigorate the war taxes by an addition of 1,000,000l. It will be recollected by the committee, that in the ways and means of last year, a duty of 20l. per ton was proposed to be laid on wine; but, in consequence of representations, it was deemed proper to reduce it to 12l. The duty, however, continued to be charged to the individual in proportion to the original proposition. The effect of the original proposition would be only to charge a duty of 4d. a bottle, and that duty had, in point of fact, been charged on the consumer, though only 12l. a tun had been laid on by Parliament. I now propose to charge the original duty of 20l. per tun, which would yield an addition of 200,000l. I also propose an addi- tion of 12¾ per cent. on all imports, exclusive of tea, wine, and cotton wool; and as an additional duty on sweets is necessary, being the material from which British wines are manufactured; but it is thought better to charge that duty on the raw material. I would also propose a double duty on raisins, as countervailing the wine duty. The addition from the whole of these sources will be 800,000l. making, with the 200,000l. already stated, an addition of 1,000,000l. to the war taxes, which will raise their amount from 14,440,000l. to 15,440,000l. on the 5th of April, 1805. That cannot be calculated for every year. It is necessary to deduct from it the difference between the probable annual produce of the property tax, and the 7,000,000l. which I assume it will produce on the 5th of April, 1805.

SURPLUS OF CONSOLIDATED FUND.

I come now to the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, which I estimate at 5,000,000l. on the 5th of April, 1805. I shall be ready, when called upon, to state why I do not take it at so large an amount as in the last year, and why it may be fairly taken at 5,000,000l. The house is aware that the produce of the Consolidated Fund for the last year was calculated at 6,500,000l. but, in fact, it realized only 5,100,000l; in 5 quarters it had produced 6,100,000l. but in the 3 nurtures following, it fell below what I estimated it at. I see no reason to impute blame to myself for having, upon these grounds, called upon the house to vote 6,500,000l. I detailed my reasons to the house, and the house approved of them. I could shew, beyond a doubt, that the deficiency from the amount voted, has arisen from the suspension of the payment of certain duties, and the increase of drawbacks, the amount of which may very fairly be added to the surplus of the Consolidated Fund. I look forward to a probable amount next year of 5,000.000l. I will add to these what is usual as a part of the ways and means, a lottery, the profits of which will be 250,000l. A vote of credit, G. Britain, 1,700,000l.; Ireland, 800,000l. making together 2,500,000l. for the united kingdom; and lastly, a loan, concluded for this day, ten millions for the service of G. Britain, making altogether for the united kingdom 36,510,000l. being an excess of ways and means above what was wanted for the supply of 273,000l.

LOAN.

I come now, Sir, to state the terms on which I have this day closed an agreement with some of the most respectable mooned gentlemen. The amount of the present loan for the united service of G. Britain and Ireland, is 14½ millions. For the separate service of G. Britain, the amount is 10 millions. It was proposed, then, that the contract should be in the 3 per cent. consols, when the agreement was thus made: 100l. three per cent. reduced, and 82l. three per cent consols, for 100l. money, making a capital in the reduced 10 millions, and in the consols 8,200,000l. with the usual bonus of 5 per cent. discount for prompt payment.—I hope, Sir, that the terms of this agreement will prove satisfactory to the house, whilst the readiness with which gent. who have great stake in the country have come forward, and the facility with which the bargain has been made, will evince that the credit of this country stands high, and holds out a fair prospect of its continuing so to do. The amount of the interest to be provided for will be 550,000l.; to this add for the charge of management, 80,090l. and the 1 per cent. stock created for the redemption, 106,100l. requiring, in the whole, provision to be made for an interest of 736,190l.—I now proceed to state to the committee the mode proposed for raising the sum requisite for discharging this interest. In the course of the last session, arrangements were made for consolidating some of the leading branches of the public revenue in the excise, customs, and assessed taxes; but it was found impossible, at that time, to apply them to the article of stamps. From this source, therefore, I hope, that without any considerable pressure being felt, a provision may be made to obtain a sum sufficiently large to answer the new demands on the public purse. I propose, then, to impose additional duties upon stamps, already chargeable on legal proceedings, and on the transfer of property. Great inconvenience has already been felt from the variety of stamps already in use; their number is stated to exceed 300, and owing to this multiplicity, the mode of applying them is not well understood. It is proposed, then, to reduce and class them into about thirty, whilst, by giving facility to proceedings in the courts of justice, by certain arrangements, I hope to be able, in a great measure, to countervail any pressure that may be produced by an addition of taxes. It is of importance not to propose any considerable addition of duty for whatever can alleviate the expences incurred in courts of justice, must be a matter of great public advantage, and therefore, to stamps of this description, I do not propose any considerable addition. With respect to stamps for the security and transfer of property, I am of opinion that a considerable augmentation of revenue may be derived. At present, the stamps are comparatively high on the transfer of property of small amount; but the instrument ought to bear, some relation to the value of the property. My hope is, that all the intricacies which at present prevail in this branch of public revenue, may be obviated, and at the same time an additional revenue of 800,000l. may be obtained. This, then, appears to be in itself a fit subject for taxation, whilst it will cover the interest and contingent expenses of the present loan; and I would farther state to the committee, that after the most attentive consideration which has been given to this subject by able men, I feel confident that a very considerable addition to the revenue may be obtained, with the concomitant advantage of affording great facility to the public.—I will now only farther trespass upon the time and attention of the committee by recapitulating the amount of the supplies which have been voted:

The committee will observe, that though in the present instance, the ways and means do not accomplish the object of preventing all accumulation of debt, the accession this year will be under 4,000,000l. But the committee will understand, that if they should adopt the provisions which I have placed under their consideration, there will be ways and means sufficient to meet what I consider the average amount of the war expences, independant of any unforeseen occasion, such as loans or subsidies, leaving out of consideration, what is temporary, and adapting the system to what is permanent. If the system which I recommend be adopted and continued, and if 1,000,000l. be added to the war taxes, and the war should continue for 3 years, with the accumulation of the sum in the hands of the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, we will have arrived at the end of these 3 years at a point, when all addition to the public debt will cease, and the debt will be diminishing even under our present expence. Thus we shall have to carry on the contest, if it should continue beyond that period, under the circumstance of a diminution rather than an increase of debt. I am encouraged, besides, to hope for a diminution in several branches of the public expenditure, in those of ordnance, barracks, and charges for volunteers. In the present year, the sum required for these services was 7,679,930l. The expence of the ordnance in 1800 was 2,058,000l.; in 1801, 2,066,000l.; this year it is 3,693,000l. being an excess of 1,633,000l. This, I confess, is a very considerable excess, but it arose from causes of unavoidable, though temporary necessity. For the purchase of arms in particular 6 or 700,000l. have been expended. But so large a distribution having been made, and the arsenals being now supplied, it is not likely that the expenditure under this head will hereafter be so considerable. With respect to the expences under the head of volunteers, a considerable diminution will take place in this branch also. The expence of volunteers in 1800, was 574,000l.; in 1801, 600,000l.; and in the present year, 1,800,000l. In the next year it will be for the wisdom of the house to determine whether, in the improved state of discipline to which they shall then have attained, it will continue to afford the same allowance as before. But at least there will be a reduction in the article of clothing, as it is given for 3 years, unless the house shall be of opinion to alter its arrangements on this point. With respect to Barracks, the expence under this head, was in the year 1800, 479,000l.; in 1801, 465,000l.; in the present year, 2,183,000l. In this department, a very considerable diminution cannot fail to take place, unless there continues a necessity for the extension of the barrack system, which is not likely to happen. I therefore contend, that the ways and means which I have stated, contain provisions for the probable charges of the country, and if the war should continue for 3 years, that they will be sufficient to support our present expences undiminished, at a point at which our debt would diminish instead of increasing, without impairing our means of carrying on the contest. I congratulate the house and the country on these unquestionable proofs of our ability to contend with our present difficulties. The present situation of the country affords a grand display of public spirit, opulence, freedom, and power. On the combined effect of these blessings I rely for the sufficiency of our means to maintain, single-handed, the contest in so just a cause, as long as the domineering spirit, the unbridled ambition, and the implacable animosity of the enemy, shall render it necessary for us to continue it.—The right hon. gent. then concluded with moving, "that towards raising the supply granted to his Majesty, it is the opinion of this committee, that 14,500,000l. be raised by way of annuities, of which 10 millions to be charged on the part of G. Britain, and 4,500,000l. on the part of Ireland." The resolution was put and carried: after which the several other resolutions, agreeably to the foregoing statement, were put and carried.—The house being resumed,

said, that it was not for the purpose of making any opposition to the financial statement of the right hon. gent. that he now rose. What he wished to advert to, respected the motion which he had given notice to bring before the house on Wednesday next. He said he had learnt from persons who were well skilled in the state of the public concerns, that this was not the most proper time for discussing the affairs of the country; and he had just understood that an important motion to that effect, which was to have come on in another place that same evening, had been put off, in consequence of a suggestion from a noble lord in office. The reasons for such a postponement must, undoubtedly, be well known to his Majesty's ministers; what he wished now, therefore, to know was, whether the same reasons existed against his bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice for Wednesday next? This, he asked, not so much as a matter of convenience to himself; but he thought that it was also a matter of importance for the house to know whether, there was the same intention on the part of his Majesty's ministers, of postponing discussions of that nature for any number of days?

replied, that the same considerations which induced the postponement of the motion alluded to, undoubtedly applied to similar proceedings in this house, and upon those grounds he hoped the hon. gent. would not be unwilling to abstain from bringing forward the subject for which he had given notice for Wednesday, under the present circumstances. He could assure the hon. gent and the house, that his Majesty's ministers would also avoid submitting any measure that could have a tendency to provoke the least difference of opinion.

acquiesced in the wish expressed by the right. hon. gent. and accordingly postponed, sine die, his notice respecting the orders given for transports to convey the Hanoverian troops to this country, which stood for Wednesday; at the same time he expressed his hope, that the motive for the delay proposed by ministers would not long continue. When it should cease, he begged it to be understood, that he should hold himself entitled to the right of priority.

asked, whether it was the intention of ministers to move the postponement of the order of the day which stood for to-morrow, relative to the army of reserve suspension bill?

answered in the affirmative, but observed, that he hoped there would be no objection to enter into the consideration of the amendments made by the Lords in the Volunteer Consolidation bill.

, on the grounds alluded to, consented to postpone the motion of which he had given notice, with respect to the dates of the orders sent out to India at the commencement of the war.

also felt it his duty to postpone his notice respecting additional allowance of pay and clothing to the volunteers, and took occasion to submit to the right hon. the Secretary of State, whether, as the volunteer consolidation bill was a measure upon which considerable difference of opinion existed, it was not of that class of proceedings, which ought also to be postponed at least till Friday?

said, he had no wish at all about it. The house then resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.