rose, pursuant to the notice he had given, to call the attention of the house to the conduct of Mr. Justice Fox, of the court of common pleas, in Ireland. He was extremely sorry that the painful duty should be imposed on him, of bringing forward a serious charge against a person holding so high and honourable a situation as that of one of the judges of the land. But when such persons made an improper use of their authority, it was the duty of parliament to enquire into their conduct. The hon. bart. then recapitulated the leading points of a petition, which he held in his hand, and which, he said, came from a very respectable magistrate in the north of Ireland. He then presented the petition, which was read by the clerk. It purported to be the petition of John Hart, of Ballymagard, in the liberties of the city of Londonderry, and set forth, "that the petitioner is possessed of considerable estates, situate chiefly in the counties of Donegall and Londonderry, and has usually, for many years past, served as a grand juror for the said counties, and in that capacity the petitioner attended at the last summer assizes for the county of Donegall, the hon. Luke Fox, one of the justices of the court of common pleas in Ireland, then presiding as a judge in the crown court of the said county; and that a person, named Anderson Dobson, was put on his trial, at the said assizes, for a misdemeanor, in having procured a magistrate to sign an affidavit, purporting to have been made to account for the due expenditure of public money in making a road, without having actually administered the oath to the person stated to have made the affidavit, and which person, together with the petitioner, had been appointed overseers by the grand jury to make the said road; and that he did not at all act or interfere in making the said road, but altogether left the business to the other overseer so appointed; and that the petitioner, on the said trial, was called upon, by the said Anderson Dobson, to bear testimony to his being a man of a fair and honest character, which testimony the petitioner did give; and the evidence being closed, Mr. Justice Fox, in charging the jury who tried the issue, stated what the petitioner had sworn, and, in animadverting on his testimony, said, "but who, gentlemen, will give a character of this Mr. Hart, degraded and disgraced as he is by this transaction, which will intail eternal infamy and disgrace on his posterity?" though the petitioner had not, in any manner, been concerned in the transaction which caused the said trial; nor was any evidence then, or at any time, given to warrant even a suspicion that the petitioner could be guilty of such an offence; and that the jury having retired, remained some time enclosed, when they were sent for by Mr. Justice Fox, and asked if they had agreed to their verdict, and they informed him, that they were divided in opinion, that some of them were for finding the said Dobson guilty, and others were for acquitting him; and those that were for acquitting him said they had no doubt of his having prevailed on the magistrate to sign the said affidavit, without having administered any oath to the person who was stated to have sworn it, which they thought was a bad act, but they did not think he had been guilty of any such fraud as was laid in the indictment, he not having pocketed any thing by it, or words to that effect; and that the jury having again retired, they were enclosed till about half past 7 o'clock in the evening, when Mr. Justice Fox sent for them, and, on their coming into court, they said they were still divided in opinion, whereupon Mr. Justice Fox desired them to go back to their jury room, and concluded, by saying, if they did not agree in ten minutes, he would adjourn the court till 6 o'clock on Monday morning, it being then Saturday; whereupon the jury retired, and not having agreed within the time to which they were limited by Mr. Justice Fox, he did adjourn the court till Monday morning, and proceeded to dinner with the grand jury; but, before he got to the head of the dinner room, and dinner not having been served, he was followed by the sub-sheriff, who informed him, that the jury had agreed; to which Mr. Justice Fox replied, "they may cool their consciences till 6 o'clock on Monday morning;" and the jury, being under the necessity of remaining enclosed till the Monday following, and having again returned to their former opinions in consequence of their confinement, they were on that day conveyed to the verge of the county, and discharged by the said judge; and that he was not present in court at the time when Mr. Justice Fox used the expressions above stated reflecting on the petitioner, and, not being informed of it, the petitioner, early on Sunday morning, waited on the judge at his lodgings, where, he found him accompanied by the clerk of the crown; the petitioner said, that he came to make a request which he hoped would not be considered unreasonable, as the business of the grand jury was over, and nothing remained for them to do but to pass the presentments: Mr. Justice Fox asked, "Pray, Sir, what is it?" to which the petitioner answered, that he hoped he would permit him to return to Derry on that day, as he had ordered a meeting of the inhabitants of the lower liberties of Derry, by public advertisement, at 12 o'clock on the next day, for the purpose of forming a corps of yeomanry for the defence of the country. Mr. Justice Fox thereupon said, "Sir, you know your duty, and I know mine; your attendance to-morrow is indispensably necessary;" upon which the petitioner retired; and Mr. Justice Fox having gone into court about a quarter of an hour after 6 o'clock on the Monday (which was the 29th of Aug. last) directed that the crown solicitor should be called, and he having appeared, Mr. Justice Fox addressed him in these words; "Go, Sir, and do as I directed you "yesterday;" upon which the crown solicitor went out of court, and took one William Chambers, the conservator of the roads (who had been the principal prosecutor of Dobson) with him; the grand jury (amongst whom the petitioner attended) having been previously called over, and attending in court, the crown solicitor and Chambers having shortly afterwards returned, and Mr. Justice Fox thereupon ordered a magistrate, who was then standing in court, to take Chambers' examination against the petitioner, and an information, ready drawn out, was then produced by the crown solicitor, which information, the petitioner has reason to believe, was prepared by the instruction, and under the immediate authority and direction, of Mr. Justice Fox himself; and that the crown solicitor having handed the information to the magistrate who had been ordered to take it, the magistrate was proceeding to read it, conceiving it his duty so to do before he should examine and swear any person to the truth of its contents, upon which Mr. Justice Fox reprimanded him for so doing, and would not permit him to read it, which induced the magistrate to express surprise that he should be ordered to take or subscribe an information which he had not read previous to its being sworn; however, by the command of the said judge, the magistrate administered the usual oath, and took the said information; and that, as soon as the information was thus sworn, Mr. Justice Fox turned towards the grand jurors (with whom the petitioner then was) and said, he had much concern in calling the attention of the grand jury to another subject of much moment; that a member of the grand inquest of the county stood charged before him with a very atrocious offence; he then proceeded to state, that Anderson Dobson had been put upon his trial before him on Saturday, and he detailed very minutely the evidence which had been given on the trial; he said, that after the evidence had been closed and the trial over, Mr. Hart had come on the table of himself (which the petitioner denies to have been true, the petitioner having been called on by the said Dobson in his defence) to give a character of the traverse; and that when he came to animadvert to the petit jury on that part of the evidence so given by the petitioner, he had thought it his duty to say, "who, gentlemen, would give a character of this Mr. Hart, degraded and disgraced as he was by an infamous crime, by which he has intailed disgrace on his posterity, and infamy on his character and name?" Mr. Justice Fox then proceeded to apply the evidence so stated by him to have been given against Mr. Dobson to the petitioner, and stated, that in consequence of such flagrant conduct, he had directed the crown solicitor to prosecute him; and, an examination having been sworn, he must order him into the dock, and desired the sheriff to take the petitioner into custody, whereupon the petitioner was taken into custody by the sub-sheriff, and placed in front of the bar, where traversers usually stand for trial; which being perceived by Mr. Justice Fox, he directed that the petitioner should be put to the bar, in consequence of which direction the sub-sheriff then put him in the place where felons are arraigned, and receive sentence; and the petitioner being placed in that degrading situation, and standing as a convicted felon about to receive the judgment of the law, Mr. Justice Fox contumeliously asked him, what have you, Sir, to say? you are now at liberty to go on, addressing him in the style and manner as if he were really a convicted felon; but the petitioner being so affected and confounded by an address so violent and unexpected, and from being placed in so public and so degrading a situation, could at first scarcely articulate a word with an audible voice, but having recovered a little from his embarrassment and distress of mind, he did make a few observations, after which he was obliged to listen silently to a most reproachful address from Mr. Justice Fox, who, whilst the petitioner was in custody, untried, and in the hearing of those whose duty it would be to put the prisoner upon his trial, and to decide upon his guilt or innocence, and holding up the petitioner to the resentment and indignation of his country, amongst other things, addressed the petitioner in the following words: "You have charged me, as a judge sent to administer justice, with criminal conduct, because I directed you should be put upon vour trial for a most infamous crime. Whether the agitation in which I see you proceeds from a sense of insulted honour or detected guilt, from a wounded spirit or habitual depravity, I know not; but I can only attribute your conduct to a hardened sense of being used to such malpractices. A charge of the most enormous nature is made against you, disgracing the grand inquest of the country, not in their persons, but yours." Mr. Justice Fox, in the course of the address, expressed his determination of returning the ensuing circuit for the express purpose of trying the petitioner, and in the hearing of the grand jury, declared that, if they should hesitate in finding the bill of indictment, he would direct the solicitor, for the crown to apply to the Court of King's Bench for an information against the petitioner; and that Mr. Justice Fox, in furtherance of such his avowed determination to return next circuit for the purpose of trying the petitioner himself, desired that his lodgings should be kept for him; and that, after he had remained some time in the dock, without knowing what Mr. Justice Fox's further intentions were, or for what alleged crime or offence the petitioner was then committed, and placed in the common felons' dock, Mr. Justice Fox informed the petitioner, that, as it was then too late to have an indictment prepared, the petitioner might give bail and directed that the petitioner should be bound in 1,000l. and two sureties in 500l. each, for the petitioner's appearance to take his trial at the ensuing assizes for the offence contained in the said examination, which the said judge would not suffer to be read, or even stated, but which offence, be it what it might, the said Mr. Justice Fox had prejudged, and pronounced the petitioner to have been guilty of. The petitioner, therefore, entered into such security, and was accordingly released, but remained so but a short time; for, shortly after the petitioner was so released, the said judge did again order the petitioner to be taken again into custody, on an allegation that the petitioner had entered into some conversations with some of the jurors after they had been locked up for the purpose of considering their verdict on the trial of the said Dobson, and directed the petitioner to be prosecuted for such offence, and accordingly the petitioner, at the ensuing assizes, was tried and acquitted of such charge; and that the petitioner attended, as he was bound, at the ensuing assizes, and no bill having been sent up against the petitioner for the said alleged offence, for which the petitioner had been so committed to the felons' dock by Mr. Justice Fox, the petitioner instructed his counsel to ask the crown solicitor, in court, on the second day of the assizes, whether the prosecution was intended to be abandoned, and he replied, that he believed it was not intended to send up a bill of indictment against the petitioner; and that the petitioner, believing there was no charge contained in Chambers' said information against the petitioner that would, in the opinion of the lawyers concerned on the part of the crown, warrant the grand jury to find a bill of indictment on it against the petitioner, and the petitioner feeling it extremely unjust and oppressive to have such a charge undisposed of, did again instruct his counsel, and they did apply to the court, on the last day of the assizes, to make the crown solicitor either send up an indictment, or that the petitioner, and his sureties, might be discharged from their recognizances; whereupon the crown so licitor handed an indictment to the clerk of the crown to take up to the grand jury; and that the grand jury did ignore said bill, as no charge whatever appeared to warrant it on the face of the information which had been taken under the direction of Mr. Justice Fox himself, and on the authority of which he thought proper to commit the petitioner to the dock, and hold him up to his country as guilty of some foul and disgraceful crime: and that the petitioner presumes to represent these facts to the house, conceiving that the rights of the subjects of this realm have been grossly and wilfully violated in his person, and as he has no means of redress by appeal to any court of law, or of vindicating his character from the imputations most unjustly thrown upon him, submits the consideration of this case to the house, involving a subject of equal importance to the public and the individual, and in which parliament alone is competent to give redress."—On the motion that this petition should be laid on the table,

rose to ask, before the order should be made, whether it was the intention of the hon. baronet to take any proceeding grounded upon this petition?

replied, that after the petition should lie a certain time on the table for the examination of the members, he certainly did intend to move that it should be referred to the consideration of a committee of the whole house.

rose to call the attention of the house to a subject which, he was confident, would not fail to interest its liberality. It was to the case of a very old and faithful servant of that house, their late deputy serjeant at arms, Mr. Clementson, who, after having discharged the duties of that office with the most scrupulous and indefatigable diligence and fidelity for 35 years, had now, in the 70th year of his age, retired from the arduous avocations of that office. Having witnessed his faithful services during so many successive parliaments, he was persuaded that his conduct, during so long a series of years, in that important office, must have attracted the notice, and even the approbation of the house, he trusted that the motion he was this day about to make, for some provision for that faithful officer, in his old age, as a mark of approbation to this long and irreproachable discharge of his duty, would readily meet the assent of the house. He concluded by moving, "That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to order some provision to be made for John Clementon, Esq. who has for near 35 years, faithfully and diligently executed the office of deputy serjeant at arms attending this house, and who, on account of his long and laborious services, and advanced time of life, has lately resigned the same."

rose to second the motion. He observed, that every man who served the public faithfully and diligently, during the greater and the better part of his life, is entitled to a comfortable provision for the remainder of it. He had observed how Mr. Clementson had conducted himself in his office, and approved it; but what was still more important in his view, a relation of his who filled that chair, had expressed to him his entire approbation of Mr. Clementson, as an officer, for which reason he heartily concurred in the motion.

most cheerfully concurred in the motion, and could not deny himself the satisfaction of rising to express his approbation of the faithful and exemplary conduct of Mr. Clementson, during the 12 years in which he had an opportunity of experiencing his deserts, by the scrupulous and indefatigable discharge of his arduous duties. He believed it had been the good fortune of Mr. Clementson to conduct himself, not only without offence to any, but with satisfaction to all. It happened to him, during a period of twelve years, not only as a member of the house, but in an official situation, to have many opportunities of observing the extraordinary diligence, the prudence, and propriety of the conduct of Mr. Clementson. He was confident that gent. was worthy of the favours now proposed, and certainly nothing would be more honourable than to be recommended by that house to the marked regard of the Sovereign to this Mr. Clementson had entitled himself, by the zeal, fidelity, and diligence with which, during the period of 35 years, he had executed the orders of that house.—The motion was agreed to nem. con., and the address was ordered to be presented by such members as are of his Majesty's most hon. privy council.

rose and observed, that he thought the bill a measure of such great importance, and as affecting the interests of so great a body of men as the whole of the prize agents of this country, and the whole of the officers and men of his Majesty's navy, that some further time ought to be given before the house was called upon to decide finally on the measure. The Board of Admiralty, he said, had taken the subject into consideration, but found it so complicated, and involving so many contrary interests, that they had not yet come to any decision upon it. He hoped, therefore, there would be no objection to postponing the second reading till Tuesday se'nnight.

rose to remind the house, that this bill had already been a considerable time pending; that it was founded upon the report from the commissioners of inquiry into naval abuses, of which abuses, those of prize agents formed a considerable part, and was made so long since as last July; that his hon. friend (Captain Markham), had brought forward the bill so long since as February last; that although various causes had since occurred to delay the progress of this bill, yet it was one of great importance, because it went to rectify and ascertain the mode by which the sailors of the British navy, who fought the battles of their country, were to receive fairly the produce of the prizes they had won, as the remuneration of their gallantry. The session was already so far advanced, that any farther delay would risk the loss of this bill in the present year. The house would recollect, that on appointing commissioners to inquire into the abuses in the naval department, the subject of prize agency was one to which, in a very particular manner, they had directed the vigilance of the commissioners. The object of the present bill, founded, as it was, upon the result of minute inquiry, was to establish the most rapid mode of decision possible, by which the British captors of lawful prizes might be enabled to obtain their rights, and to appoint a safe place of deposit for the proceeds of their captures, until such time as their rights should be ascertained, and where they might apply for information, or payment, in the proper time, instead of being left at the mercy of prize agents. Against the principle of the bill he was confident there could not be, nor did he understand that any objection was likely to arise; but he trusted, that the circumstance of the present Admiralty Board not having had time, in the multiplicity of their concerns, to come to any decision upon the bill, would not be allowed to operate with the house, as a reason for further delaying, beyond this day, the second reading, which would acknowledge the principle at least. But if the govt. would even pledge itself to support the bill in the next session, it would afford high satisfaction to his mind, and render him the less anxious about pressing it forward at so late a period as the present.

said, that his hon. friend, in naming a particular day for the second reading of the bill, which, for the reasons he had assigned, he thought more eligible than the present, ought fairly to be understood as giving a proof of his intention to go on that day into the discussion: but, really, upon looking into the bill, it was found to contain many points so extremely knotty, and so likely to excite much difference of opinion in the detail, that the Board of Admiralty, in the multiplicity of important concerns which had pressed upon them since their accession to office, had not time to give it the necessary deliberation, so as to make up their minds on the bill. His Majesty's govt. would, therefore, give no pledge upon the subject one way or the other: they would not content themselves with saying the principle was a good one, and therefore pass the bill without examination or comment. They did not chuse to amuse the house with empty words, or pledge themselves to the adoption of a measure without examination or alteration; nor did he think the matter so very pressing, after so long a delay as it had already experienced, to defer it only for a few days longer. This species of argument he was sure, had little chance of being satisfactory to the hon. gent. who spoke last, and who, notwithstanding the delay the bill had already experienced under his auspices, was ready to defer it till next session. But it was pretty extraordinary that though the bill was alleged to be founded upon a report so remote as the month of July last, and the bill brought forward so early as last February, the hon. gent. who thought it now so urgently necessary, did not take a much earlier opportunity, when he might have so done, to press it forward with more expedition.

could not but disagree with both the right hon. gentlemen who spoke last; as the former had procrastinated for so many months the progress of a measure which he seemed to think so pressing, and the latter and his colleagues had full time enough since their accession to power to investigate the subject; and also, as it was understood from the secretary of the treasury on the last day this order was postponed, that the second reading should take place this day. Upon the principle and detail of the bill before the house, the hon. member reserved the declaration of his sentiments till another opportunity, of which he should avail himself, to shew that much complaint connected with this subject lay against the Court of Appeals, whose conduct was a reproach to the administration of justice in this country.

denied that he had given any thing like a pledge, that the business should come on this day; when he requested it might be postponed, his right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt) had not at that time taken his seat, and he certainly did not mean to give any pledge that was to govern his conduct. Business of importance pressed at this moment on the Admiralty Board; and as it was impossible for them to decide upon a measure which went to establish another Board, they wished to put off the consideration of it for some time longer.

thought the right hon. gent. (Mr. Addington) would find himself mistaken in supposing that no member could object to the principle of this bill. For his own part, he thought it very objectionable. It proposed to introduce a new code quite different from that which has existed since the reign of Queen Anne, and to erect a new office under the direction of the Board of Admiralty, with salaries of £6,000 a year. Every man in the navy, below the rank of captain, was also to be deprived of the right of nominating his own agent; and that control over the proceeds of prize money while an appeal was pending, which seamen now had in consequence of a late act, was to be done away.—After a few words from Capt. Markham and Dr. Laurence, the second reading of the bill was postponed till Tuesday se'nnight.

moved the order of the day for the second reading of the bill for the abolition of the slave trade.

intreated the hon. member to allow precedence to another order of the day, for going into a committee on the petition of the Irish linen manufacturers, as it was upon a subject of the most messing importance, involving the interests of the staple commodity of Ireland, and upon which the petition of all the linen manufacturers and merchants in Ireland, were before the house besides, the Irish great linen market at Dublin was to be from the middle to the end of the month, and all the great orders for exportation remained pending the decisions of the house upon the subject.

said, it was possible to accommodate both; for as the debate upon the slave trade bill might take place in a future stage, namely, on the motion for the speaker's leaving the chair, previously to going into a committee, all that he meant to press that evening was, merely the second reading of the bill, and the hearing of counsel and examination of evidence.

said, that as the mail for the West Indies was to depart this night, he could not consent to suffer the anxiety which the planters must feel upon this subject, to be aggravated by hearing that a bill for the abolition of the slave trade was allowed to be read a second time without any observation against it.

said, that however important the noble lord might conceive it to be, that the West India mail of this night should carry with it the decision of the house upon this question, he feared if the house should even go into a debate upon the bill, that the mail would have taken its departure before the house would have formed its decision. He was, therefore, for acceding to the proposition of Mr. Wilberforce, as the day on which counsel were to be heard on bills, however important, did not happen to be days of full attendance, and as it would be too late an hour to go into debate, after evidence should have been gone through, and the arguments of counsel concluded.

thought the subject of the slave trade abolition was, under existing circumstances, a new subject to most of the members of that house. In the year 1796 a bill had passed that house for abolishing the African slave trade after a limited period; but then it was upon a principle agreed on, that in the interim measures should be taken for increasing the native population of the West India islands. Was the house, then, prepared to proceed with a bill of this magnitude, without inquiring what progress had been made in this respect? A correspondence of considerable length had taken place between the sec. of state and the West India govt. upon this subject, the papers upon which were now lying on the table. He was confident that not ten, or even five, members of the house had read those papers. He was even sure the hon. member who introduced the bill had not read them; he, therefore, hoped the house would not be precipitated to a decision upon a subject which occupied 70 millions of capital, which produced 2 millions of revenue, which brought to the country 80 millions of produce, and enabled us to export 4 millions of produce, until those papers were printed, and time allowed to members for due consideration. He was as much an advocate for the abolition of the slave trade as any member of the house, nevertheless, he wished the house to proceed with deliberation, and not in its furor to promote the purposes of humanity towards the West India slaves, to defeat those purposes.

stated, that he had read the papers alluded to by the hon. bart., and would have thought himself culpable not to look over documents which had now been above a month on the table, and which were so intimately connected with a subject in which he felt such a particular interest.

said, that the petition of the West India merchants had only been received the day before, and that, therefore, sufficient time had not been given to members to turn their minds to the subject. He then moved, that instead of the word "now," the words "this day se'nnight" should be substituted.

said, that a pamphlet had been just published, and had very widely circulated, which he knew had produced a strong impression upon the minds of the members of that house (we understood the right hon. gent. to allude to a pamphlet entitled, "A concise View of the Question regarding the Slave Trade.") This impression was such, that he wished the house to decline coming to any immediate decision upon this important bill.

thought, that as the house had determined on the second reading of the bill for that evening, no sort of objection could be rationally taken to it on the ground of surprise. Those who opposed the measure were perfectly attentive to their own interests. He had seen the counsel in his way to the house, whose habits of industry and attention were, he was sure, sufficient to bring them before the house perfectly prepared for the question. As to the pamphlet alluded to, he had read it with great pleasure and approbation, but he could no see what improper effect it could have. Was the house to be supposed to be taken captive by that book, so as to require another week to enable them to recover their judgment?

opposed the bill. It was by meddling with the colonies in this way that the French broke down their monarchy. By the operation of this measure persons were about to be plundered of one of the finest properties under the canopy of heaven, in order to gratify ill-designing men in this country.

spoke in favour of further delay. It was no contest of parties for victory's sake, but a question on which depended the fate of the empire.

thought that the great mass of information on the table should have been printed for the advantage of the members of that house. He could not come properly to the discussion without a knowledge of the details. He was a friend to the abolition, but in looking to that object he differed widely from the mode proposed by his hon. friend. The house, on former occasions, in voting for abolition, had always in view abolition with regulation, but abolition without regulation had been always rejected. His hon. friend, he was well assured, proceeded on the principles of a benevolent and virtuous mind; but the experience of former propositions, both in this and the other house, sufficed to shew that he had not, in the present instance, taken the most prudent and discreet line.

said he was a friend to the abolition of the slave trade, and would support the present bill. His motive, in wishing to put it off, was in order that the question of the Irish linen trade might come on first. But as the debate now stood, he would bring on that business to-morrow.

said, he was a friend to the principle of the bill; but, before he voted for it, he wished for further information.—A division then took place; when there appeared, for the second reading of the bill this day 74. For postponing it 66.—When strangers were re-admitted into the gallery,

was opposing the second reading of the bill. He condemned the hasty manner in which the hon. gent. was proceeding to push this bill. He thought much more time ought to be given for the serious consideration of a measure of such vast importance, not only to our West-India islands, but to the great body of merchants in this country, engaged in the trade to Africa. He contended, that the passing of a measure, like the present, was nothing less than a proscription of the colonists of the West-Indies, and an unjustifiable attack upon their property. He himself, he stated, was a member of the society which had done so much towards exploring the interior of Africa; but he never heard, till Wednesday last, of the high state of civilization in which the Africans were. He observed, that the Africans were accustomed to slavery in their own country, and the taking them to another quarter of the globe, was therefore no great hardship. He adverted to our revenue from the West-Indies, and the great advantage which the empire derived from the colonies, all which benefits would be lost if this measure were to succeed.

thought that the delay of carrying the abolition into effect, after the house had so long since decidedly come to a resolution for that purpose, was much more likely to create a revolt than the passing of the present bill. The cultivation of the islands might be carried on fully by promoting the increase of the present negroes, and by the aid of horses, asses, or machines.

said, it was not a hasty measure, for it had been before the house for 12 years. The parallel with the negroes of St. Domingo did not hold. It was not surprising if these did not spare; for if ever any thing was more disgraceful to human nature than ordinary, it was the conduct of the French settlers in St. Domingo. The conduct of the govt., or of its agents, was such, that it might provoke not only uncivilized negroes, but the most patient of Christians to retaliate. But the Africans were slaves in their own country—true, but it was a patriarchal slavery, and as different from ours as day from night. He contended that policy, no less than humanity, called for this measure; but, at any rate, those who argued against its policy, ought first to have shewn that the slave trade was reconcilable to the rules of justice.

considered the bill as founded upon correct notions of humanity, but he did not perfectly concur in the mode of proceeding.

expressed himself in favour of the motion. He mentioned one estate in Jamaica, within his own knowledge, on which not a single negro had been purchased since 1794; at that time, the slaves on it amounted to 368, and they were now 476; which clearly proved, that sufficient numbers might be raised, if proper care was taken, without fresh importations. It had been said, that negroes could be imported at a less expense than they could be raised. This might, he believed, be the case; but he was well convinced, the labour of new negroes was not so valuable as that of those raised in the country; and, as such, he would support the present bill.

rose to speak to order. He conceived, that when an amendment was negative, it was the rule of the house, or at least the custom, that the original question should be carried without further debate. A number of gentlemen having gone away in this persuasion, it appeared, as if the opposes of the bill took advantage of the accident to overset the declaration of the house in its favour. He wished to know, whether, if the question for the second reading of the bill now was negatives, the bill would be lost for the session. If it would, the loss of it would be effected by an unworthy artifice.

stated, that it was only in the case of an amendment by the previous question, that the rejection of the amendment precluded further debate on the original motion. If the question for the second reading of the bill now were negative, it would be open to any gent. to renew that motion on any other day in the course of the present session.

thought that the bill should pass on every ground of humanity, justice, and policy.

supported the bill. He denied, that the improvement of the condition of the negroes by their removal to our colonies, if it were even real, was any excuse for taking them away from their own country. He maintained, that the consideration of revenue, trade, and navigation, even if those things were to be affected, should have no weight when put in competition with justice and humanity. It was a traffic which had its foundation in injustice and in blood, and against such an abominable article of commerce, he would ever raise his voice: fiat justitia ruat cœlum.

said, that if the question were now whether the slave trade should commence, he, for one, should be against it decidedly; but the question was, to what degree we were to consult the interest of the colonies, to preserve which the faith of parliament was pledged; and, as to the ground of humanity, he contended, that unless the hon. gent. who brought this measure forward could give security that the rest of Europe would not take this trade up, when we should drop it, the purpose of humanity would be so tar from being answered, that it would be defeated, by our putting out of our control that power which we used with moderation, and giving it to others, who would exercise it with cruelty. Another great point to be considered was, what would be the situation of the whites in the West-Indies, if this trade was abolished? Did the hon. gent. mean the emancipation of the negroes in the West-Indies to follow this abolition of the African trade? If he did, let him say so at once; this would be telling the slaves in the West-Indies, that they were the only slaves upon earth; that their brothers in Africa were to be free in future, and they alone were to be slaves. This, he apprehended, would be sealing the death warrant of every white man in the West-India islands and plantations. Another point was, how far the house was justified in putting an end to a trade in this island, after it had encouraged the produce of certain commodities there, depending upon the trade, and altering the course in which so much money was vested? or in other words, how far we were justified in breaking our contract? These were the general grounds on which he opposed the second reading of this bill; but most emphatically, he said, he opposed it, because he believed the moment this bill was past, the death warrant of every white man in the West-Indies would be sealed.

.—Sir, the arguments of my noble friend, if they succeeded, would not only prevent the second reading of this bill now, but prevent any farther progress in the measure at any future period. I have stated, that it did not appear to me that much would be advanced upon this subject; but my noble friend has convinced me of my error, for he has said something new upon it, and not only new, but extraordinary; because it is extraordinary, that a man of my noble friend's understanding, should, upon the ground of humanity, use such arguments. From his desire to spare the effusion of human blood; from his eagerness to spare the lives of human beings; nay, from his desire to consult the feelings of the negroes in the West-Indies; from compassion and charity towards them, it is extraordinary, indeed, that he should insist on the continuance of this traffic. This is the way in which my noble friend would sooth and assuage the fury of the negroes by telling them, that not only they shall continue in slavery, but the whole of their progeny, spread over a vast quarter of the earth, are to be doomed to be the sacrifice of this horrid traffic to all eternity. I own, if any thing ought to surprise me after what I have heard in support of this trade, this species of argument might do so; but what has given my noble friend the confidence to use this argument is that which has frequently been urged by those who oppose the abolition that the negroes in the West-Indies are to be emancipated; and my noble friend thought he collected an answer, but it was not so intended by the supporters of this bill. He then gave way to his effusions of humanity, and desires us to consider the state of the feelings of the negroes in the West-Indies, when they were to be told, they were to be the only slaves in the world. Now, I never heard it said by the advocates for the abolition, that the emancipation would be immediate; that has always been stated as the consequence of the abolition by its opponents, and as constantly disclaimed by its friends.—Here Mr. Pitt proceeded to observe, that no man who had considered the subject well, had any thought of the emancipation of the negroes in the West-Indies, but that it was considered as one of the numerous good effects of the abolition of the African trade, that it would ameliorate the condition of the negroes in the West-Indies, and bring them forward into that state of improvement that might fit them for a condition of much less rigor than they are compelled of necessity to endure now; because when it was known that a stop was put to this inhuman, though lawful traffic, not only compassion to them, but the immediate interest of the planters, would lead them to take better care of the stock they had, since they could not replenish it; and then the hitherto harassed and oppressed negro may be comprised in the list of those who enjoy comforts allowed in general to the rest of the human race; and he had always thought it a fundamental error in those who opposed the abolition, to think that either the emancipation of the negroes in the West-Indies would be the immediate effect of the abolition, or that it would not be accomplished at all, with safety, until the negroes in the West-Indies were fit for emancipation; when, in truth, an improvement in their condition would be one of the many good effects, and necessarily so, of the abolition, and which could never be produced without it. He then proceeded to show, that it was for the interest of the planters themselves, and for the benefit of all the islands; and those who look at the subject with reference to the principles of general philosophy, would most readily admit that the system of restraint was as unprofitable as it was odious; that the labour of a man who was conscious of freedom, was much more valuable than of him who felt he was a slave; that he who was conscious he was free, was much more likely to improve than he who felt himself in bondage. Thus, he would venture to say, that, if the slave trade were abolished, there would be an end of that state of alarm; for, said he, alarm there is for the safety of the lives and properties of the planters and proprietors of negroes in the West-Indies. There would then be a cure for the fever which has agitated the spirits, and disturbed the understanding of many persons, and made them blind to their true interests, when they have been considering this subject; for so they certainly were, when telling us, as they have year after year, that the state of the negroes is such, that we ought not to agitate the question of the abolition of the African slave trade, lest the misunderstanding of it should deluge the islands in blood. And what is the conclusion they draw from this? Why, the noble lord, who, if the trade were now to begin, tells you he would oppose it, tells you, at the same moment, that it must continue, and continue for ever; for so it must, upon the principle on which he supports it, and that for the safety of the West-India islands. Now, I appeal to every gent. in the trade, whether, by the importation of slaves, since the year 1792 to the present time, their property, I mean the original property embarked in this trade, has been improved? Or whether the whole of the importation since that time has not been for the sake of employing capital in the cultivation of new land in rival ship to the old property in the slave trade? Whether new colonies have not arisen to riyal the old ones? And then I would ask the same gentlemen, what they think of the increased danger to the islands by that great and sudden increase of black population, and this at a time too the most critical, after the planters have been, year after year, applying, as they are doing now, for the interference of govt. in their behalf, on account of having produced more sugar than they can find purchasers for all over the world? To continue this traffic would be to continue these evils and to increase this danger. My noble friend says, that the abolition of this trade, would seal the death warrant of every white person in the West-Indies. I say that the death warrant would be the continuance of the traffic. I would ask any man, who understands this subject, what he would expect to be the result of that continuance for ten years? As to the bad effects which the abolition would have upon the minds and feelings of the negroes themselves, my noble friend could hardly be serious, when he said, the effects would be so dreadful. He supposed, that upon the abolition of the African slave trade, the negroes in the West-Indies are to be told, "you are to be the only slaves in the world the rest of your countrymen are to have freedom, and all the happiness which freemen enjoy in human society; they are to have all the comforts of indulging their attachment to their native soil, of giving entire sway to their partiality for their old habits, and they will be happy, provided they are not liable to the unnatural intrusion of others." The noble lord supposed, that this is to be said to the negroes in the West-Indies on the abolition of the slave trade. Now, how does this tally with what we have been told by every opposer of the abolition, that the negroes themselves in Africa were interested in the continuance of the slave trade, for that West-Indies, in a state of happiness compared with that of their native country, where torture and death would be the consequence, if we were not so kind to them as to draw them into a state if slavery? It is impossible for such an argument as this to have any weight. I would, therefore, in treat those who oppose this measure, to consider the dangers with which the West-India islands have been threatened.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer next adverted to the situation of St. Domingo, and showed, that nothing was so dangerous as the influence of jacobinical emissaries on the African negroes He said, no other nation but England, from its capital, and its hostile and commercial marine, could continue the slave trade; and he concluded with asserting, that this was the most fortunate time at which the humanity of this country could be exercised for the annihilation of this nefarious system. There never before occurred such an opportunity as now offers for the accomplishment of this acknowledged desirable purpose, and which perhaps, if we neglect it, may never occur again.

paid a just tribute of praise to the declamatory powers of the right hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer. He, however, differed from him in opinion as to the propriety of the bill before the house. The condition of slavery he thought bad in any country or with respect to any he could not think that the mode now adopted for doing away that state of slavery was as efficient to the purpose as the other. The hon. and learned gent. argued, that those who contended for the abolition of the slave trade, must also contend for the emancipation of the slaves, and the abolition of slavery itself in any part of the dominions of this country. He would not say, that it was just to impose the condition of slavery on any man; but he maintained, that the mode now proposed to remedy the evil was neither just nor effectual. In the course of his speech he stated that Mr. Burke had reprobated the attempt to abolish slavery.

lamented, that with all the hon. and learned gentleman's anxiety for the abolition of any state of slavery, he neither could bring his mind to agree to the measure now before the house, nor yet to bring forward any new proposition for that purpose. He, however, covered himself in general terms with a recommendation of "the other mode," as if it was so generally known that there was no necessity to define it, although that mode had never before been heard of, or at least he had never had the happiness to be present when it was described.—He expressed his sentiments on the policy of the present measure, and lamented that it had not been adopted when it was moved for in the year 1788, being convinced, that the situation of the islands and their inhabitants would, in that case, have been in much more security.

said, that it was in vain to argue whether or not the question was a matter of humanity, but to consider the practicability of it. It was not proper for the house to be carried away by the eloquence to which such a question might give rise. To proceed upon the system of prohibition was absurd in that house, while we had so many instances of its being rejected in the upper house. It was impossible for any one nation to put an end to that evil, because it was only a signal for other nations to take the lead in the importation of slaves, and the peculiar war in which we were engaged, rendered our squadrons not so capable of preventing a contraband trade as it might do in times of peace. The measure upon the whole would do more harm than good, and the state of St. Domingo did not alter his opinion upon the subject. He had always looked to the West Indies with serious apprehensions, as being a channel which exposed us to all the calamities of war, of climate, and of dangers arising from the discussion of this question of rational humanity. There was, however, no other mode to combat these evils, but to find some mode in which other nations would co-operate with us, for without such co-operation, any attempt on our part to attain such objects was only misleading ourselves. The demand for colonial produce was daily increasing, and would continue to do so. In the end we should only find that we had deprived ourselves of the means of accomplishing our object, and that the evil must subsist till terminated by other means. He would wish the trade to exist in favour of the commercial interest of our country, instead of thus being thrown into the hands of Denmark, Spain, or any other country in Europe. There might be some methods taken to increase the population of the country; and such a subject was a very proper consideration for a committee of the house. Supposing that a duty of 10l. was to be laid upon each male slave, and 5l. upon every female, it might be calculated to produce about 140,000l. which sum might be applied judiciously towards the encouragement of the population of the West Indies, and he was convinced there could be no plan more congenial to the feelings of our Sovereign, or more consistent with the genuine dictates of humanity. If the master was to be taken up by other countries, the West-Indians, by adopting any other plan, would be acting contrary to human feelings, at the same time that they would be injuring their interests.

said, that the noble lord had alluded to the question of practicability in a manner which he could not understand. It was not, however, a question which was new; and as to the regularity of alluding to what had passed, or might yet pass, in another house, he confessed that it was undoubtedly true, that bills of regulation had been there thrown out; but that single circumstance did not argue that a different result might not happen on the present occasion, or that we might not yet have the chance of the coalition of that house, because it had undergone changes in every respect. Was there not a reverend bench of bishops there who had in general shown that they understood the true principles of religion, and were consequently disposed to leave, as it were, the question of practicability behind? It had already been proved that, in proposing the abolition of the slave trade, we never could have the cordial consent of the West India planters. In the year 1797, an hon. member of that house had proposed a recommendation to the King, in order to promote a purpose similar to the present bill. That motion had been carried, and he would now wish to learn what had yet been done towards the abolition of that illegal traffic? There had been neither abolition, diminution, nor regulation adopted, tending to that desirable end. If there had been any thing done in consequence of such proposal, the country would have had occasion to have boasted of it at this day. The only question that now remained for consideration was, whether we could or could not abolish it, and it was extraordinary to hear the arguments against it. Could not the Parliament of G. Britain prohibit the subjects of this country from carrying on any trade whatever, and why should it be said that they could not do so in the present instance? If it could not do so, it was no govt. at all. The noble lord seemed to argue from religious principles which he (Mr. F.) could not understand. He had heard of some extraordinary instances of the wonderful effects of religious influence upon some people's minds; and he could mention one in the case of the late Mr. Cowper, the poet, who, during a considerable part of his life, was deprived of his senses, and was troubled with ideas the most horrible in human nature, conceiving that the Governor of the universe had marked him out for eternal perdition, and therefore he thought it was incumbent upon him not to lift up his hands, or offer a prayer for his salvation. How far such a case might apply in the present instance, he would leave it for the house to determine. We were thus going on from day to day, violating all the laws of humanity and every principle of justice, and saying, that it was not us alone, but all the nations of the world, who were doing so. The slave trade was to be considered in the present instance a British trade, and no other, and therefore it depended on ourselves to obviate it, and adopt what means we chose to meet the effects of a contraband trade. The description of the African trade, as given by Mr. Park, was well worth the attention of the house. That gent. had said, that in proportion as the districts of that country were remote from the coasts, the slaves received better treatment. Was it to be said that, because we were not bound to go like knights errant to Africa, in order to relieve these slaves, that we were entitled to go and add to their oppression? Supposing that the slaves, when in their native country were guilty of robbery and other crimes, was there any thing binding upon us to go there, and act as the police officers of the King of Dahomy? Let that King act as he pleased, there was surely no necessity for our performing the office of the most humble individual and becoming executioners, or in other words, to act as the Jack Ketch of the King of Dahomy. No person could deny, that the situation of St. Domingo was a serious and awful warning to us not to increase the numbers of blacks over the whites on our colonial possessions. It was our duty to afford an example to other countries, and in five years hence we should find it adopted by those who had not thought proper to persevere in what they themselves had attempted.

admitted most readily the justice of the principle on which the abolition was brought forward and supported, but saw many difficulties that might occur in carrying the measure into execution. He much doubted if it would not be productive of very serious consequences to the national prosperity. He adverted to the influence our example was supposed to have, and did not see that the full effect of what had taken place in St. Domingo could be yet ascertained. He was against the abolition, on the ground that if this country were to give up the trade altogether, we had no security that other powers would not continue the traffic.

said, he would wish to see some plan proposed for the gradual abolition of slavery, but disapproved of the present measure, as being highly prejudicial to the mercantile interest.

supported the bill. He was formerly against it; but the order of things which had taken place in St. Domingo had brought us to a crisis, which must determine us now, either totally to abolish the trade, or to renounce for ever the design.

said, he had been as sanguine an advocate for the abolition as the hon. mover of the bill; but an entire revisal of all the arguments had made him a convert to the contrary opinion.

thought it incumbent on him, as an ardent friend to the bill, to offer a few words in reply to an hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) on the bench below him. He said he was a friend to the abolition of this disgraceful traffic, but he did not think himself bound, on that account, to vote for the emancipation of the negroes in the West India islands. That unfortunate description of men were not in a state fit either to comprehend or to enjoy the blessings of rational freedom. With regard to the statement of the opposes of the bill, that it would involve the ruin of 70 millions of property, it was undeserving of credit; for, he was persuaded, there was not one 70th of that capital embarked in what was properly called the slave trade; and he fully agreed with the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer, that if there was an end put to the trade to-morrow, the West India islands would not be less cultivated than they now are. We had a dreadful example before our eyes in what had happened in St. Domingo; and he feared that the abolition, if it was even carried at present, would come too late. Had the proposition originally made by the hon. mover of the bill been then adopted, the West India proprietors would not be placed in the state of apprehension and insecurity that they now are.

rose for the purpose of defending the memory of the late Mr. Burke from imputations which had been thrown upon it, from a quarter he should have little expected. He would put it to the recollection of many persons now present, whether that great character did not declare in his place in that house, that he had long entertained some distinct ideas respecting the alleviation of the miseries of the negro slaves: but that since the house had, with such honour to itself, taken up the subject upon a more enlarged and liberal plan than he as an humble individual durst venture on, he would throw those ideas to the wind, as the magicians that we sometimes read of were said to throw their mystic leaves. He recollected also, that the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) who now so strenuously opposed the measure, when he rose to speak in that house on the first introduction of the measure, and Mr. Burke was then living, commenced that speech which delighted and astonished all who heard it, by declaring that he laboured under the same difficulty that a man would do who was called on to prove a self-evident proposition. He lamented, from the bottom of his soul, that the right hon. gent. had abandoned the cause of justice and humanity. He regretted that such high talents and virtues should have lent their great aid to the continuance of a traffic, not only dishonourable but destructive to the nation. He could not help applying to him the couplet of our immortal poet:

Who would not laugh, if such a man there be?

Who would not weep, if Atticus were he?

He would not at that late hour answer any of what the supporters of the trade called argumants against the bill, but contend, that if once the progress of the trade were arrested in Africa, the situation of the negroes in the West Indies must be improved, and for this, the strongest of all reasons, that it would be the interest of their masters to do so.

shortly explained; and the question being called for, the house divided on the question of the second reading.—Ayes 100, Noes 42—Majority 58.—The bill was then read a second time, and ordered be committed on Tuesday next.—On the question for calling in the counsel, a conversation of some length ensued. The question was carried in the affirmative but Mr. Scarlet, on opening the business, pleaded a want of preparation on his own part and that of his colleagues. Their further hearing was therefore postponed to the next stage of the bill, and the house adjourned at two o'clock.