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Commons Chamber

Volume 2: debated on Tuesday 19 June 1804

House of Commons

Tuesday, June 19 1804

Minutes

Mr. Hardman presented a petition from several merchants and others in the county and town of Drogheda, against the report of the corn committee; Col. Vereker presented another of similar import from the inhabitants of the City of Limeric; and a third Mr. Hobhouse presented from the city of Glasgow. They were each ordered to lie on the table.—It was stated in a message from the lords, that their lordships had agreed to the Caledonian canal bill, and several others, without any amendment.—Their lordships also requested, by message, that this hon. house would furnish them with a copy of the minutes of the proceedings, and the evidence before the committee appointed to consider of the state of circulation in Ireland and the course of exchange between this country and that for some time past, Ordered, and a copy sent up.—Mr. Foster brought up a bill for regulating the price of corn exported and imported to and from England and Ireland. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—Mr. D. Browne moved for copies of the returns made under the army of reserve act in Ireland, specifying each county and town; and also the numbers that may have deserted, as far as the same can be made up. Ordered.—Mr. Huskisson moved for leave to bring in a bill to enable the commissioners of his Majesty's treasury to issue exchequer bills to a sufficient amount to answer the amount of that part of the supply voted for the service of the year 1804. Granted.—The papers formerly moved for by Mr. Whitbread, from the county of Bamff, were presented at the bar, and afterwards ordered to be printed.

Counterfeit Dollars' Bill

moved for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the counterfeiting of silver coins, called dollars, issued by the bank of England, and also of Dish tokens, and to prevent the circulation of such base coin from the one country to the other.

said, he would take some future opportunity of stating his objections to such a bill,-as he did not approve of any coin being allowed to be in circulation but what had been coined at his Majesty's mint.

assured the hon. member that the provisions of the bill would sufficiently obviate his objections. Leave granted.

Prize Agency Bill

proposed to postpone the second reading of this bill, to this day se'nnight; and, if his Majesty's ministers should not then be prepared to meet the discussion of the subject, and to offer such amendments as, in their view of it, might render the measure efficient to its object, considering the lateness of the sessions, he should not be disposed to press the further progress of it then, unless he should perceive it to be the decided sense of the house; and that the postponement of the question might be likely to produce a better effect, than to exhaust the time of the house.

, junr. expressed considerable satisfaction at the course the hon. gent. had taken, as certainly the bill did appear to him to contain many parts which were objectionable, and if it was to pass at all, would require several alterations.

said, he was extremely glad that the bill had gone off; it was a bill by no means called for by the navy, but which, on the contrary, was almost universally condemned by it. There was one part of it in particular, which appeared to him introduced for no useful purpose, and which he must call an errant job.

said, that it was known to all the navy that great mischiefs did result from the manner of paying prize money. Instead of acting as a boon to the sailors, it was now rather a cause of discontent, and perhaps did more mischief than good. It was to remove these discontents and to remedy these mischiefs that the bill was intended, and he really knew no part of it that was meant as a job. However, he thought it was now in good hands, when in the hands of his Majesty's ministers.

stated, that he thought it was an extraordinary indulgence in the house to admit such a report as that which had been presented, to lie upon their table.

spoke on the same side; and, after some further explanation, the order was postponed according to the terms of the motion.

Additional Force Bill

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the third reading of this bill.

said, that when this bill was first brought forward, it did appear to him to contain principles so extremely hostile to the constitution of the country, that he was anxious the house should reject such a dangerous innovation; but one of the clauses which had been introduced yesterday, had altered it so much, that his chief objection was greatly removed, though he thought it still very exceptionable. He was not, however, so unreasonable as to expect that a great plan of defence could possibly be devised, that would be deemed totally unobjectionable. As the sense of the house had already been taken upon it, he would not now throw any thing in the way of its future progress. He deprecated the principle of joining in opposition, in order to remove any man, or set of men, in whom he considered himself bound to put confidence.—Such a mode of procedure had a very pernicious effect, as we had already witnessed, by forcing from his Majesty's councils, a rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Addington), who at once possessed the confidence of his Sovereign, and that of the people; and owing to whose vigorous exertions our force had been raised beyond all former precedent, for the purpose of strengthening our constitution, and enlarging our liberties.

said, he had been prevented from giving any opinion during the past stages of the bill by an accidental indisposition, which had prevented him from attending to the discussions that had taken place, as regularly as he should have otherwise wished. The same reason would then prevent him from dwelling upon the subject at any length, particularly as the objections that had been urged against the measure had been hitherto unanswered. So little had the supporters of the bill advanced of sound reasoning against the arguments that had been urged against it, that it appeared to him unnecessary to add any thing to objections so forcibly urged and so insufficiently answered. Whatever, therefore, might have been his opinion of the efficiency of the measure, he should have contented himself with saying a few words on the present occasion on that subject. A different topic however had been introduced into the discussions on the question, which had a direct reference to expressions supposed to have been used either by himself, or by those connected with him in this house and in another place. He confessed that it appeared to him a necessary duty not to pass over insilence the reference to such expressions, and he begged leave to observe, that, though he felt it an urgent duty to offer a few words on that subject to the house, he, had never on any former occasion, since he had the honour of a seat in that house, felt more embarrassment than he did at that moment. His embarrassment arose from the nature of the topics to which he had adverted, involving allusions personal to himself, or to those connected with him, which must always be painful to him. What had been considered difficult by his rt. hon. relative (the chancellor of the exchequer), in the discussion of yesterday, appeared to him impossible; and though he could not impute what had fallen from his rt. hon. friend on that occasion to wilful misrepresentation, he felt that it was calculated to place him and those connected with him, in a state of self contradiction, which he could not reconcile with their opinions of the state of the country, or of the remedies for the dangers and difficulties with which it was threatened. He was not disposed to cavil about the precise words he might have used on a former occasion; but he was confident that when it had formerly fallen to his lot to express the very high estimation in which he held the talents and abilities of his rt. hon. relation, no expression had ever escaped him or any one connected with him, nor had it ever entered into their imaginations, that it was possible for them so to look at the situation of the country as to suppose, that the accession of any single individual to the administration, whatever might be his talents or abilities, would be sufficient to work the salvation of the country. The expressions that had been on that occasion used were, that when the situation of the country called for a strong, vigorous, and efficient administration, as much a the talents, abilities and character of the country as possible, should be included in it, and though he had never supposed that such expressions could have been urged against him, or against the claim of the country for the formation of such an administration, as would be most suited to meet its difficulties, and provide for its ultimate security and success, he had never used any words inconsistent with such a view of the situation of affairs; and however highly he was disposed to estimate the merits and talents of his rt. hon. relation, however anxiously and earnestly he had expected to have an administration formed on such principles, under such superintendance and influence, he could never suppose expressions directed to such an object inconsistent with his high estimation of those talents. It was with pain and regret that he felt himself under the necessity of adverting to this subject, so personal to himself and his connexions; but he felt, however, a higher motive for regret, because be found, that whatever public objects he and his friends might have proposed, whatever claims the country might have had for the formation of a strong vigorous, and able administration, the conduct and system of his rt. hon. relation was calculated to deprive them of the means of accomplishing that most desirable object in the present perilous and alarming times. In what he had urged, he had felt himself actuated by a true sense of what was due to his own character, and to the characters of those who acted with him, in order to shew that there was no contradiction in their conduct, and that it was not inconsistent with their past professions. Impressed with such sentiments, therefore, it was not without uneasiness he saw his rt. hon. relative in a situation in which he could not view him but with pain and regret.—The rt. hon. gent. then observed, that he should not weaken the objections that had already been so powerfully urged against the bill, by attempting to enforce them. Though there were some objections into which he did not enter entirely, there were others that had appeared to him fatal to the measure, which had never even the appearance of an answer; one of these he begged briefly to notice, namely, that this measure would create a premium against the regular recruiting. After dwelling shortly on this objection, the rt. hon. member concluded with giving his dissent to the measure.

said, he had been necessarily led to the topics adverted to, by the allusions which a noble lord opposite (lord Temple) now in his place, had made personally to him. He had touched on these topics, not with any design of interfering with the opinion which any individual might have, as to what would be the best kind of govt. for the country, and that which he would wish to see established. What he did allude to was, not merely a sentiment of what was desirable, but a known intention of the noble lord, and those who thought with him, marked by an excessive partiality towards him, of which he was highly unworthy. In speaking of the govt. that then existed, which they characterised, as inefficient, he had understood it as the express sense of the noble lord and his friends, that his being placed at the head of his Majesty's govt. would be a circumstance that would remove in their minds, every objection to it. He could not speak precisely as to the words, but he was so clear as to this being the sense of what was said, that unless the rt. hon. gent. had contradicted it, he would still have believed it. He only mentioned this to account for his thinking it very extraordinary that the noble lord and his friends, should, after the extensive change, in which he had been called upon by his Majesty to act a leading part, adopt a conduct so different from the language be then understood them to hold, that they should think such a change, and the share he had in it, such as to call for a systematic opposition to the govt. to which he had supposed them so pledged, and that they should have commenced that opposition at the very outset. If he misunderstood the expressions, he withdrew his opinion upon them; but what he founded his observations upon was clear in the recollection of the house.

, in explanation, said, to the best of his recollection, he, and others nearly connected with him, had expressed the very high opinion which they had ever entertained of his rt. hon. friend. But it could never be supposed, that they meant to have gone the length of saying, that the single circumstance of his rt. hon. friend being made a part of the govt., which he then opposed, would be a sufficient reason to them to desist from their opposition.

said, that whatever might be the conceptions of his rt. hon. relation (Mr. Pitt) or the conceptions of any of his friends, he must, for himself, disavow having ever made use of any such expression, or having ever entertained such a sentiment. However great the respect was which he had for the rt. hon. gent.'s talents, however attached to him by friendship, still be never supposed that merely his introduction into a govt. which he had opposed as fundamentally and radically bad, could give him a confidence in that administration. It would be in the recollection of the house, that when he made use of the expression, the rt. hon. gent. was a supporter of the govt. which he had since opposed, and which he was now at the head of. Whatever room there might be to imagine, from a confidence in the exertion of his rt. hon. friend's great talents, that this govt. was of much greater value than the former, he could not, though he allowed there was accession of talent, see much consolation in a change, which was confined to a single individual.

in explanation said, he referred to what had beer said by those nearly connected with the noble lord, and not particularly to any thing that had been said by him.

, though not himself included, could not feel indifferent to the accusation brought against those with whom he was nearly connected. If he had been party to the expressions which were mad the grounds of the accusation, as he was not, (and as he might now be allowed to say he was glad that he was not,) he should not wish any further defence than the very gave, temperate, and dignified explanation which had been given by his hon. friend: and he was persuade the rt. hon. gent. opposite would not persist in affixing to those expressions any sense which, it was declared by the authors, they were not meant to convey. There were different rules of construction for different subjects: penal statutes were to be construed strictly: but he never heard that the same principle was to be applied to compliments and effusions of friendship.—He came now to the consideration of the bill, on which, though he agreed that the matter was probably decided, though after the frequent discussions and long sittings he could not suppose that the house was disposed to hear mach more upon the subject, he could not forbear offering some further observations, merely to disburden his mind, and to mark to the last his feelings against a measure so pregnant, as he conceived, with mischief. The points to which he should advert were such as had either been overlooked, or at least, not sufficiently pointed out. And the first remark to be made was on the manner in which this measure had been brought forward. When a new military system was about to be established, the natural course of proceeding was to take a comprehensive view of the whole of our military force at that time subsiding. Of this force it was not natural that a part should be omitted, so considerable in itself, and certainly so considerable in our estimation, as that of the volunteers. When these had been duly considered, some information might perhaps have been expected as to the numbers and situation of our regular army; a species of force which, however overlooked in all our late military arrangements, had in other times been thought to be of some account. In fact, both these and every other part of our force required to be distinctly in our view, before we could possibly say either what was necessary or what was practicable; how far the measures proposed were consistent with those already adopted; or what alterations were requisite in order to prevent the several parts of the system from interfering with, and defeating each other. With respect to the volunteers, those, it was true, who thought of that force as he might be suspected of doing, might not regret the effect which the present measure must infallibly have upon them, and which could be nothing less than to withdraw one of the main principles by which they had hitherto been held together. Though-many of the volunteers had engaged upon other motives, it could not be questioned that numbers had entered with a view to the exemption. Upon all these the effect of the present measure would be that of a sentence of dissolution. It would operate like the sun upon the wings of Icarus. The wax would be melted, and down the corps must fall. In saying this it must not be supposed that he was so confounding things, as to conceive, that by rendering exemption useless only by rendering it unnecessary, the present measure had done an injury to the volunteers. Unquestionably their condition was not made worse, merely because that of others was rendered better. He spoke only of its practical effects. At the same time he must say, that there was something a little ludicrous, as well as not quite decorous with respect to the house, in suffering the volunteers to strut away with a full persuasion, that they were enjoying a most valuable privilege, while those who were in the secret, not being indeed the members of this house, knew that a measure was in agitation which would render the whole of this supposed privilege a mere delusion, or, what was vulgarly called, a bite. So much for the connexion of the present measure with the volunteers. With respect to the regular army, the connexion was, if possible, still closer. So close was it indeed, that it was impossible satisfactorily to give an opinion on the present measure without knowing previously what was done and proposed to be done with respect to the army. If any one was asked, whether it was right to have an intermediate force, such as was now proposed, he must say, tell me first, what you mean to do with your army, and on what footing service there is to be put: according to the regulations there introduced, will be the necessity of having a force of this description at all, or of modelling it in such and such a manner. All these previous inquiries, however, he hon. author of the present plan seemed to think not only useless but injurious. He studiously and industriously avoided them. So earnest was he to separate from this question any mention of the volunteers, that all which related to that system was forcibly and violently thrust out of the house, pushed off the stage by head and shoulders, in order that it might be clearly removed before the present measure made its appearance. In like manner, till this measure was done with, nothing was to be said about the plans that were in agitation for the army. The hon. gent. seemed to be afraid of distracting the attention of the house, by bringing before them too many objects at once. It was not a question of the rule laid down for the old comedy, Ne quarta loqui persona laboret: he was so apprehensive of crouding his scene, so fearful lest his characters should have any thing to say to one another, that he would never suffer more than one to be upon the stage at a time: his whole piece was a continued soliloquy. If such was the manner in which this measure was brought forward, with a view to the means afforded for estimating its merits, an equal objection might be made on the score of time, and of the little notice which the house had had of the sort of measure which it was meant to submit to them. Till within a few days (almost within a few hours) of the motion being made, not an idea was entertained that the plan about to be proposed, was any other than that which had been opened by the hon. gent. some months before. It was not till the moment of performance, and when the curtain was actually drawn up, that the manager stept forward (without an apology) and signified that the whole was changed, and that instead of the piece which had been announced, we were to have, not, as an hon. and learned friend of his had said the other night, the good old play of the Recruiting Officer, but a strange fantastical piece, produced for the occasion, and got up in a hurry, called The Regimental Vestry, or, The Recruiting Churob-Wardens. It was difficult to conceive what the progress of the counsels could have been that gave rise to so happy an idea. It could never have been formed at once, or in any ordinary circumstances, but must have been the result of a consultation, such as that described in Foote's farce of the Minor. 'A great day coming on; the greatest day this season. All the world to be there;—old opposition, new opposition, a vast attendance from the country. Nothing in the meanwhile settled. Ballot found to be impossible, and no expedient thought of by which its place could be supplied.' In this situation somebody seems to have conceived the idea of a sort of proceeding which should be neither compulsory nor not compulsory; should not be a quota, yet should be connected with districts and parishes; should be a system of recruiting, yet be carried on by persons not named by government, though possessing a certain degree of authority, and known in the country. 'I'll be hanged,' says some one, if you don't mean recruiting by parish-officers.' The hon. gent. seems to have jumped at the hint, and parish-officers it has been. The point important to be considered was what were likely to be the effects of the measure thus happily hit off. The hon. gentlemen here vapoured a great deal, and asked triumphantly, what they had to offer by whom the present measure was objected to? To this it might be sufficient to answer, that they who objected to a measure were not therefore bound to be provided with a better in its room. It was enough if they could reasonably presume that a better might be provided. But he was willing to go further, and having frequently stated what his own ideas were, to compare those ideas with what was now adopted. Your ideas said the hon. gentleman are merely negative: they are nothing at all. They would do well to ask, before they pressed, that to pick were their own plan stripped of its negative merits, how much of it would remain? The negative merits of the plan, the house would recollect, were all that the hon. gentlemen insisted upon. The plan was good, because it abolished the ballot, because it reduced the militia, because it removed competition, because it limited the boonies. So it certainly was: and so equally, and on the very same accounts, was the plan opposed to them. All the ideas above-enumerated, the hon. gentlemen would recollect, were ours as well as theirs; and, what was not less to the purpose, were ours long before they were theirs, and when in truth they were made a matter of reproach to those who held them. There was nothing on these points, therefore, in which one plan differed from the other. The great advantage which we had was, that with us all was negative, and that in addition to the rest that we got rid of, we got rid of the hon. gentlemen's scheme of fining parishes, and recruiting by parish-officers It was curious therefore to hear the rt. hon. gentlemen calling upon us to know what were our ideas, and what we had to propose in the room of what we objected to. We were in the situation of a man who, having been stripped of all he had, is asked by the robber where his money was. Where is my money? he would say: why, in your pocket. Where were our ideas? why in the hon. gent's bill He must not be understood to mean, however, that in claiming these ideas for himself and his hon. friends, he would be willing to take them such as they had now become in the hands of those who had lately had possession of them. The hon. gent. had made them his own by the manner in which he had treated them. He must say with the Roman epigrammatist,

Quam recitas meus est, ô Fidentine, libellus:

Sed male cum recitas incipit esse tuus.

The opinion seemed to be, that nothing could be good, that was not attended with considerable inconvenience. It was like the fancy of some sportsmen, that a gun could not carry its shot well, if it did not kick a little,—did not make itself felt upon the shoulder. The hon. gentlemen could not persuade themselves, that means might be at once both easy and efficacious. Their notions were those of the countryman who came to London to have his tooth drawn: when the operation had been performed with great ease and address, and he was called upon to pay half-a-guinea,—half-a-guinea, says he! why, in our town, for a quarter of the money I have been pulled round the room. He wished the hon. gentlemen did not despise so much plans which might otherwise be good, merely because they did not happen to be of great show and bulk, did not form a justum volumen. It was as possible for a measure of little display and parade to be worth something, as it was for one of a contrary description to be good for nothing. Of the latter position the present bill would probably furnish an example. Nothing was ever worse calculated to answer its purpose, in whatever view it was considered. As operating upon the military spirit of the country, its effect would be that of wet sand upon a fire. Nothing could be deviled more injurious to the reat military feeling of a country than a great home army. To separate military distinction from danger, was the very receipt which any one would recommend who wished to enfeeble and relax the respect felt for the profession and character of a soldier. But setting aside these more general considerations, and viewing the measure merely with reference to its more direct objects, and as a means of obtaining men, it was in his opinion hardly less objectionable. The part of the population of the country who could be induced at all to engage in military life, might be distinguished into three classes, viz. those who would enter into a militia or home-army, if such existed, but would in no case be prevailed upon to engage for general service; those who would engage for general service, were the opportunity afforded them, but would otherwise not enter at all; a class less numerous probably than the former, but by no means so little as was commonly supposed, and thirdly, those who being bent at all events upon a military life, would enter as soldiers in one way or another, into the regular army, if there were no other species of force, or among the troops for home service, if there were no such thing as a regular army. It was not meant to be contended, that by having a force of both descriptions, more men would not be gained than if the choice were limited to either service separately. This must of necessity be so, if men were found under each of the classes above enumerated. But the question was, in which way would more men be gained to the regular army? And here it was evident, that in the first instance the comparison was wholly against us. Those who would engage for regular service, and in no other, we should have on either supposition. Those whom nothing could induce to engage in regular service, we must with respect to the regular service be deprived of on either supposition. But of those who being determined to become soldiers, would at all events engage in one service, whatever that might be, were the other not offered to their choice, all who would now engage in home service, of whom the number could not be considered as small, would be so much clear loss. While we gained in number of men, we should lose in number of real soldiers. This was strictly the result of the comparison of the two cases, namely, that of our having a regular army only, or a regular army combined with such a one as was now proposed,—with respect to all those who should enter at any one time. All the men who should so enter must be found in one or other of the classes above enumerated. But he would not dissemble, meaning to argue the question perfectly fairly, that a further advantage was proposed by this plan, namely, that of changing one of these classes gradually into another, and of converting those who originally would have consented only to serve at home into persons who would engage for general service. By tempting them into the army at first upon easier terms, it was thought that habit would do the rest, and that they would be led finally to engage their services to the full extent required. This, undoubtedly, in many instances would happen, though less generally probably than seemed to be supposed; because it must not be inferred, that those who might be induced to extend their term would necessarily be inclined to change their service. But against this number, whatever it might be, must be set off, in whole or in part, those, who being originally decided against general service might, by degrees, have been led to engage in it, if a service of another kind had not interposed to intercept their inclinations, and finally to fix their choice for home-service only. At all events, he must enter his protest against the conclusion, that all who entered into the army from the army of reserve, were persons, whom the army of reserve had been the means of procuring. No inference could be so completely false. If the bounties had been arranged, as every one must have expected that they would, namely, so that the bounty for the army of reserve, joined to that for removing from thence into the regular army, should have been equal, or somewhat inferior to that which was given for entering into the line at once, there might have been some ground, though far from a conclusive one, for that argument. But in the present case, where more was to be got by entering the army through the medium of the army of reserve than by enlisting as a soldier at once, nothing but complete ignorance or thoughtlessness could prevent men from taking that course. Who would not be willing to make that little circuit for the sake of that additional advantage? Men for ever went out of their way for the sake of a turnpike where they were to pay: but here, with the addition of a safer and easier road, was a turnpike at which they were to be paid! It would be odd, indeed, if this was not the route most frequented. Were it not so, the only possible reason which would be assigned, was one which would sound odd in the mouths of those, who supported this bill, namely, that so strong was the preference for the regular army, that even superior profits could not induce men, though only for a short time, to enter into any other species of service. How this came to be so settled, it was hardly possible to conceive. It would really seem, as if it were done with a view to blinding the public as to the effect of the measure. All that came from the army of reserve, it was meant to state, he supposed, in evidence of the benefit of this system: and as it was plain that nothing could go out of the army of reserve that had not been previously in it, the more was drawn into that repository, the greater might seem the advantages that had been derived from it. They bribed men into the army of reserve, in order that more might be seen to come out it. They offered a premium to those who should take this circuitous course, and thereby defraud, in the very first instance, the very service that was proposed to be the great object of the measure. He was glad to make these observations beforehand, that they might not be thought hereafter to be contrived for the occasion, when they should be told triumphantly of the great number of men that had entered from the army of reserve. These were among the reasons, why be thought the measure not likely to be very effectual for its purpose. But a learned gent (the attorney general) had discovered, that if the measure was likely to be inefficient, it could not consistently be accused, at the same time, of being vexations. For his part, nothing seemed more intelligible, than that these two properties should go together. This house was certainly of that opinion, when according to a well known formula, its committees were directed to find whether the petition referred to them had not been frivolous and vexatious. Here the conditions were not only compatible, but the one was commonly a consequence of the other. There was often no better way to show a cause to be vexatious, than to show that it was frivolous. In the present instance, the inference held both ways. Not only might the present measure justly be described as having both the one and the other of the properties in question, but they were dependent mutually on each other; the measure was vexatious because it was frivolous, and frivolous because it was vexatious. The former position was easily intelligible; and the latter would be so upon a little reflexion, when it was considered how much of the effect of any law depended upon the reception which it met with in the public feeling. Of this a striking proof was to be found in the army of reserve bill. That measure was actually brought to a stand by the growing repugnance of the country to submit to its further progress. It was not that the country was absolutely exhausted: that men were literally no longer to be had. If that had been the case, what would become of our present hopes? It was that the sense of the country rose so strongly against the vexation and inconvenience of the measure, that the execution of it could no longer go on. The same fate might well be apprehended for the present bill. The feeling of its vexatiousness, and the conviction of its inefficiency, would soon arm the public mind against it. Among its numerous evils, one was the encouragement it would give to the system of crimping. To call for recurring from churchwardens and overseers, was to lay down the rule that the business must be done by deputy; and who would the deputies of the church-wardens and overseers be but crimps? This was a further proof of the effect of the bill, not only in producing evils, but evils the very same with those which it affected to cure,—consequences the very opposite of those which it professed to have in view. It was to get men for the regular army: it began, at least, by drawing men away from the regular army. It was to abolish crimping: the effect could hardly fail to be a great increase of the practice of crimping. It was to lower bounties: it might not, to be sure, carry the bounties quite to the exorbitant amount to which they had risen under the quota and army of reserve bills, but it established bounties higher than had ever before been given by government, and which would, moreover, be increased in practice beyond the sums at which they were established. This was probably the only fruit that we should derive from the measure. The parishes would get no men; but they would completely establish a rate of bounty which we should enjoy for ever after. It was the somnium, latronis, the thief's dream: we thought to have men, and we should find nothing but expense: we caught at a purse, and we grasped a halter.—Other evils there were of a subordinate kind, and some of them of such a nature, that the sense of the evil was lost, in a great measure, in the ridicule. The whole functions of life were so confounded and blended in this curious system, that while half of our lawyers were becoming soldiers, all our soldiers must become lawyers. One of our principal generals had been for some time past the attorney general. Instead of sending our young men to join their regiments, immediately upon their removal from the college at Wycombe, we should give them the run of a few months at one of the inns of court; that they might take in their law, and be instructed in their profession under the various heads of service, of quarter sessions, meetings of deputy lieutenants, and correspondences with parish-officers. Burn's Justice and the Churchwarden's Vade mecum, would be as necessary to young officers as the Field Engineer, or Adjutant's Assistant, or any of the elementary treatises, to which their studies had hitherto been confined. Great pains had been taken to compare this measure with, the army of reserve, sometimes for the purpose of assuming the merits of that measure, at other times for the sake of an advantageous contrast. But no comparison could be made between them. They stood on entirely distinct grounds. No greater distinction need be sought, than that the one was temporary, the other permanent. If such was the distinction between this and the army of reserve, a difference not less marked, would be found between the measure in its present, shape and that in which it appeared, when it was first announced, and when the ballot was included in it. It seemed as if being a military measure, gentlemen thought it fair to employ it for the purpose of a stratagem of war. They had therefore used it as a masked battery, and held forth the idea of the ballot, which they afterwards withdrew, to bring forward the real attack of fines and penalties.—The rt. hon. gent. concluded with expressing a hope, that a measure so destructive and ruinous would be reconsidered.

, in explanation, declared that the rt. hon. gent. spoke in a total misapprehension of the plan, which he had on a former occasion detailed to the house. Notwithstanding all the wit, humour, and sarcasm, as well as invective, with which the rt. hon. gent. opposed this measure, it was the very same in principle which he had before stated to the house. He would assert that he had expressly proposed recruiting by parishes.

asserted that there was as much difference in the application of the principle as described in the rt. hon. gent's, outline, and as contained in this bill, as there was between light and darkness.

pointed out the difference he before alluded to, between the first proposition of the rt. hon. gent. and the present bill, as in the one case the recruits were to be raised by the parish for the parish, whereas by this bill they were to be raised by the parish for the public.

rose to address the house; but the question being loudly called for, it was put accordingly, and the bill was, without a division, read a third time and passed.—Adjourned.