opposed it on the grounds that it was a gross attack on private property. A gent. who had made a fortune by his own industry, purchased the estate where this fishery lay from the noble family of Anandale. While it was in the possession of that family, this question had never been thought of. After some other observations, he concluded by contending that this was a point for a court of law to decide, and not for parliament. The loss of the private property could not in this bill be made up by a compensation, as no such thing was claimed in the preamble.

observed, that it was perfectly competent to a committee to leave a clause for compensation, whether any thing of that sort was claimed in the preamble or not.

contended, in opposition to the major general, that no private property was here invaded. The method of fishing practiced by the gent. alluded to, was illegal, and ought, for the good of the neighboring country, to be put an end to. He hoped, therefore, the house would fairly consider the question, and not be carried away by the loudness of the major general's voice.

maintained the necessity of going into the committee, in order to enable the house to form a proper judgment of the merits of the question, as the two hon. gent. who had just spoken differed so widely, that a committee to take the subject under consideration was the only means of coming at the truth.

thought the court of session every way competent to give redress, if any was necessary. He thought the hon. bart. had not made out his case, for private property was certainly injured by this bill. If the fishery in question was destroyed, some of the fish might come into the nets of the hon. bart., but the country would be nothing the better for it, for the hon. bart. would not sell them cheaper than others would do. He therefore moved, as an amendment, that the bill he read a second time this day 3 months.—The house then divided on the question, that the bill be now read a second time, when there appeared, for the bill 56, against it 74. The bill was consequently lost by a majority of 18.

, pursuant to his notice, rose to call the attention of the committee to the state of the finances of Ireland, and to the remedies he proposed to recommend for the deficiencies existing therein. It had fallen to his lot in the late parliament to represent to the house that the revenues of that country were in a rapidly decaying and decreasing state, and he had on that occasion prognosticated that they would not become better. Experience has verified the prediction; for so far from being better, they were actually in a worse state, as would appear from a statement of the amount of the Irish debt at different periods. In the year 1793, the national debt of Ireland amounted to 2,400,000l.; in 1800, the year before the union, it amounted to 25,000 000l.; last year to 43,000,000l. and 9,500,000l. had been added to it in the course of the present year, which made it nearly 53,000,000l. If England was to increase her debt in proportion to that sum, according to the settled rates of duties in each country, the sum of that increase would amount to 64,000,000l. But it was evident that England did not increase her debt this year to any such amount. If the due proportion, therefore, was not kept up, and if Ireland continued to accumulate a much larger debt than she should do, according to the rate of debt accumulated in England, it was plain that the former country was going upon a system wholly ruinous; and one which it required the whole energy of persons connected with Ireland to put a stop to. Parliament might propose an equalization of taxes, and a consolidation of the accounts of both countries; but in the progress Ireland would be found to be increasing her burdens far beyond what Great Britain increased hers. And the worst circumstance of all that belonged to this ruinous system was, that the govt. of Ireland was borrowing money out of the country; and by that means, not only created absentee debts, and absentee taxes, but was contracted, by all the means she possessed, of increasing her exports, and diminishing her imports. While she was able to raise money, by loans in G. Britain, every exertion towards accomplishing these great causes of national wealth was taken away. But the debt so raised, had a still worse tendency; it had the effect of diminishing that revenue, that should pay the interest of it. Ireland was in as bad a state with regard to her revenues, as her debt. It was also an effect of the increase of the debt, that the ordinary revenues to pay the interest of it were on the decline. In the year 1800, the amount of the ordinary revenue was 2,800,000l. when the debt was but 25,000,000l.; last year the revenue was 2,789,000l., 16,000l. less than the year before the union, and the debt of Ireland was at present 53,000,000l. But assuming the net produce of the ordinary revenue at 2,800,000l., the amount of interest and charges to be defrayed there out was 2,500,000l., so that scarcely 300,000l. would remain to be applied to the joint charge of the empire, the proportion of which that had fallen upon Ireland in the present year had amounted to 4,000,000l. But the prospect was even worse, for it appeared that the revenue had decreased since Jan. in the proportion of from 2 to 300,000l.; and if it were to continue to diminish in the same ratio to the end of the year, there would remain nothing for the joint charge, and Ireland would be, in that respect, as a blank sheet of paper. It such were the situation of the country, as to its finances, he put it to the representatives of Ireland, all of whom, now in London, he was happy to see in their places, whether the best and fairest mode would not be to look these difficulties in the face, and to endeavour to raise a revenue, without oppressing trade or manufactures, so as to keep pace with, he should not say, the sister country, but with this part of their country. The first means of assisting the revenue would depend upon the exertions of the gentlemen of Ireland to prevent private distilleries; the effect of which would be to augment the revenue, so that whoever might be the future chancellor of the exchequer should not be under a necessity of resorting to a direct tax on their properties. The good effects of the co-operation of the gentlemen with the govt. was evident from the advantages that had resulted from it, with respect to a proposition he had himself made in 1785, of equalising the revenue to the expenditure. In consequence, no addition had been made to the debt of Ireland from 1786 to 1794, the first year of last war. Much depended on the exertions of gentlemen themselves to create a revenue for the peace establishment; whatever taxes should be necessary for the support of the war would be the subject for future consideration. The incidents over and above salaries and pensions, in 1800, amounted to 106,000l. and the last year to 129,000l. The revenue had been collected in 1800 for 10l. per cent; last year the expense of collection was 13l. per cent.; the abuses in the collection therefore deserved attention.—Another point that called for serious consideration was, the amount of the balances in the hands of the collectors. Here on the immense revenue of England there had been a balance only of 30,000l. in the hands of the collectors last year, whereas the balances in Ireland were nearly 600,000l. In 1803 they were 460,000l.; in 1804, 505,000l.; and this in the hands of collectors now in office. What was in arrear from collectors retired or deceased amounted to 120,000l., all to be sued for by law, and of doubtful recovery. The balance in the hands of the stamp collectors was 80,000l.; the whole amount of the duties on stamps was only 182,000l., though the stamp-office was in Dublin, and the money was paid there. The balance in the hands of the postmasters-general was in 1803, 16,000l.; this year 22,900l; though the whole post-office revenue was only 25,000l. The means he proposed for aiding the revenue were three; 1st, the assistance of the gentlemen of Ireland in the collection of the revenue; 2d, a reform in the collection; and 3d, a decrease of expense, which last would depend on the govt here, and the rt. hon. the chancellor of the exchequer near him. He meant to give notice on some future day, of a motion for leave to bring in a bill to appoint commissioners, as in this country, to inquire into all offices, and until then, he should forbear all comment on the subject. He should now, with leave of the committee, proceed to state the nature and extent of the taxes, he meant to recommend, which would affect those large articles of import and inland commerce, which were charged with a lower duty in Ireland than in this country, but he did not mean to raise the duty to the full of its amount in this country.—The first article he proposed, to place an additional duty on, was wine. The duty on French wines he proposed to raise per ton, to 97l. on port, 65l. on madeira, 70l. on rhenish, 60l. all others, 60l. being an addition of 22l. on French wine, 20l. on port, 16l. 7s. on madeira, 22l. 9s. 4. on rhenish, and of 24l. per tun on all other wines; this on the average of 7 years, would produce 109,000l.—The next article was malt, the duty on which he proposed to raise from 7s. 7d. per barrel to 9s. being a rise of 1s. 5d. which would produce 63,750l. He proposed to double the existing duties on tea, which would make the whole on black teas 51l. per cent.; and on the finer sorts 84l. 14s. and would produce 180,000l. The duty on tobacco was to be further raised from 1s. 1½d. per lb. to 1s. 5d. which, on an average of three years, would produce 112,000l. The duty on home made spirits now 3s 9½d. per gallon, was to be raised to 4s. which would yield 41,000l. The duty on raw and refined sugar was to be equalised as in this country, the effect of which would be to yield an additional revenue on the former of 35,000l. on the latter 3,300l. All affidavits sworn before magistrates were subject to a stamp duty, except those relating to grand jury presentments for roads, and for charities; he saw no reason for the exception, and therefore proposed they should also be subject to the stamp duty. Permits also for excisable goods were to bear a stamp, to vary between 2d. and 1s. in proportion to the value of the article. The duty of 6l. per cent. on retail importers was to be revived, which would yield 8,000l. The next and last duty he had to propose would not only assist the revenue, but have other beneficial effects, in familiarising the Irish people to the English currency, preparatory to some measure for assimilating the currency of both countries. The duty was to arise from making the whole of the revenues of Ireland payable in English currency, which would yield 290.000l. making with the whole of the other additional duties, 853,000l. He had some propositions to submit at a future opportunity to the house, for the regulation of the excise in Ireland, which would produce 400,000l. The whole then to be added to the revenue by actual duty and regulation, would amount to 1,253,000l. He hoped the Irish gentlemen would be disposed, in the language of the sailor, to give a long pull, a strong pull, and a pull altogether, in order to save the sinking vessel of the state. The rt. hon. gent. observed, that these additions to the revenue would not press upon the trade or manufacturers of the country, nor hurt the feelings of the middle or lower ranks.—He next proceeded to observe, that although the union with Ireland had been now four years in operation; and though committees had been appointed to investigate the joint accounts between the two countries, yet to this hour no balance had been struck to shew how the countries had been going on, or whether Ireland was paying more or less than her quota to the common expense. But though the short remnant of the session might not afford opportunity to produce any satisfactory result upon this head, he hoped, the commencement of the next, to have the accounts in such a state of forwardness as to be able to shew a clear statement; and in the interim, he trusted, a given time in the session would be settled, for bringing forward the Irish business, so that the members for that country might have an opportunity and timely notice for attendance. He then proceeded to move the first resolution.

said, he did not wish to offer the least obstacle to the rt. hon. gent.'s propositions, but wished nevertheless to make observations on a few of the articles that had been submitted to the house, and hoped he would be justified in doing so by the observations he had to offer. He was particularly anxious to justify the Irish govt. in regard to their manner of conducting and collecting the revenue. He did not blame the rt. hon. gent. for his anxiety in this respect, but he insisted that powers sufficient did already exist for better collecting the revenue. They already had the power, if they had the inclination, and even in that he thought the present govt. had not failed. He was the more anxious to justify that govt. as they were absent, and therefore unable to defend themselves. The arrangements of the treasury of Ireland had been established on the precedence of the treasury of this country. He was glad notwithstanding that the rt. hon. gent. had directed his attention to this object, as some advantages might be expected to be derived from it. He offered some reasons why the committee had found it impossible hitherto to make such arrangements as to enable them to give a satisfactory statement of the accounts between this country and Ireland. The accounts respecting the army particularly were very complicated in their nature; a mode of adjusting them had been nevertheless adopted which promised to be successful. The rt. hon. gent. then went into a discussion at some length relating to the expenditure of Ireland compared with her contribution, and gave a detail of the supplies when he had the honour to introduce them to the house.

, in explanation, said, that the rt. hon. gent. had certainly done him no more than justice, when he said that he had no intention of throwing blame on any one.

rose to explain. He had omitted to answer one of the statements of the rt. hon. gent; that in which he observed, that very great balances remained in the hands of collectors. He thought it necessary, in justification of the govt. of Ireland, and to remove a prejudice that might otherwise exist against them, to state how this matter actually stood. Large balances were frequently suffered to lie in the hands of collectors for the purpose of convenience, in order the more easily to pay those detachments of the army and volunteers that happened to be stationed in the districts where these collectors were. And it frequently happened that money lay in their hands, because they could not get good bills to transmit it to govt.; and govt. was often obliged to send messengers on purpose for the money.

said, he was by no means satisfied with the account of the balances given by the rt. hon. gent. who spoke last. The rt. hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Foster) had represented the balances being left in the hands of the collectors, as an abuse; the rt. hon. gent. who spoke last, said these balances were left in their hands for the purpose of paying the army and volunteers. He thought there must have been some sort of mismanagement somewhere. If the govt. of Ireland was not vested with sufficient powers to take the balances out of the hands of the collectors, they should have applied to parliament to have obtained them. It was a melancholy fact to reflect on, that the whole of the revenue in Ireland was swallowed up in paying the interest of the debt. He was sorry to find the rt. hon. gent. had so arduous a task to perform, as to raise taxes to such an amount, when he acknowledged that the trade of the country had fallen off to so great a degree. He assured him, however, that he had his best wishes for his success in the undertaking.

said, that if the difficulties at present existing were looked fairly in the face, and properly met, he had no doubt but that they would be overcome.

objected to that tax which was proposed to take place on the registry of freeholds, as he thought it would bear too hardly on the inferior classes of the people. In respect to all the other taxes, he would do all in his power to assist him in making them efficient. He would also join him in his long pull, so far as it went to the tax on wine, though he was afraid that the tax might cause the consumption to be less, and, in that respect, injure the trade.

said that he had no doubt as to the efficiency of the tax on wine, from the well-known predilection which his countrymen, from the moisture of the climate, he supposed, had for the bottle.

said, that as there was an absolute necessity for raising taxes, he could not see how they could be better proportioned than these were in general, with the exception of that on tobacco, which, instead of producing an increase of revenue, he feared would tend to diminish it, by the great opening and encouragement it would give to smuggling.

said, the observation of the hon. bart. was certainly very accurate, but the present was to be an excise and not an impost duty.

thought the present state of Ireland rendered taxes absolutely necessary, and those proposed by the rt. hon. gent. were, perhaps, as unexceptionable as any that could be resorted to. He could have wished, however, that the inferior wines had been taxed lower, and the superior wines higher; as the inferior wines were much more used in necessary consumption, as in cases of sickness, &c. than the superior, which are mere articles of luxury, and used by the affluent only. He entertained the same sentiments with regard to the tax on tobacco, as had been expressed by the hon. bart., and feared it would be evaded by an increase of smuggling.

thought the tax on the registering of freeholds might prove an injudicious one, and would fall heavy on the middling and lower classes of freeholders.

expressed his entire approbation of the taxes now proposed. He was convinced of the necessity for adopting them, and he had uniformly, since the union, called on the late chancellor of the exchequer for Ireland, to come forward with an increase of taxes, instead of resorting to the ruinous system of loans, which had added so largely to the debt, and so greatly increased the rate of exchange.—The resolutions were then severally read and agreed to. The house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.

moved the order of the day for the further consideration of the bill for the abolition of the slave trade, and for hearing of counsel against the same; which being read, he said, as there was then a very thin attendance of the house, and it might be more so, he would propose to postpone this order till to-morrow, when he hoped he sould be able to bring it on at an early hour, and avoid the disagreeable delay which had already occurred by there not being a sufficient number of members present to proceed with business.

hoped the hon gent. would then positively proceed with the business, as it was very inconvenient to many of his constituents, who were come to town to attend the progress of the bill, to have it so often postponed. He hoped it would come on at an early hour also. If it did not, and their attendance should take place, he would, however great the outcry was against it, enforce the order of the house.

said, that with regard to the management of the business, the hon. general was the last person he would consult, though he might be inclined to accede to any thing that could contribute to the hon. general's personal convenience. He was, however, surprised to hear those complain of delay, of which they themselves had been the cause.

said, the friends of the gallant officer had alone protracted the business.

said, he hoped this bill would be protracted to another session. He mentioned that there were now 7000 prisoners from the island of St. Domingo in that of Jamaica, who were guarded by a black regiment. He alluded to the language that had been used by the blacks some years past, "that Massa King Wilbee was willing to free them, but that the parliament would not let him;" and when the present state of Jamaica was duly considered, he was sure it would be much more politic to defer the bill, than to pass and send it out at present.

thought it would be better to pass the bill as soon as possible, and set the minds of the blacks at rest at once. They would then see that "Massa Wilbee" had every wish and desire to alleviate and better their present situation, but that he had no intention of emancipating them. They would know what parliament really meant to do in the case; and, in his opinion, the sooner they knew it the better.—The further consideration of the report, and hearing of counsel against the bill, were then ordered for to-morrow.

said, the principal object of the committee in drawing up the report now to be considered was, to make a fair regulation of the prices of corn and grain, between the grower and the consumer in the country, and to take care that the importation and exportation should be so restricted as to forward this desirable and important purpose. The act of 1791 had hitherto been the sole regulation in this particular; but as circumstances alter, it was necessary some change should take place in the laws relative to this grand article. Since the year 1790, very great alterations indeed had taken place in this country in the price of labour; the amount of the poor rates, the price of provisions, and many other things, which could not fail of operating very powerfully on the farmer, or grower of corn, and made it almost impossible for him to raise and sell it now at the same price at which it was raised at that time. In order to shew this more clearly to the committee, the hon. gent. stated, that since the year 1790 the value of money had undergone a depreciation of 13½ per cent. according to the best calculation, and that alone was sufficient to decide the necessity of altering the law. There was also a vast increase of the poors' rate, which in 1783 was at 2,129,721l. for England and Wales, and from that time to 1790 he did not think it could have increased much; whereas, in 1803, it was 5,128,000l. being an advance of 3,000,000l. charged on land. A proportionate increase had occurred in every other article he had before enumerated; and it was clear that agriculture could not be carried on but at a very great increase of expense, which rendered it necessary to alter the regulations and restrictions of the act of 1791, and to make a new regulation in the average prices of England and Scotland. He would not, therefore, trespass further on the time of the committee than to read and move the resolutions of the committee on this subject. He then moved the first resolution, viz. "That the importation of foreign corn be regulated by the average price of corn, grain, and flour in the twelve maritime districts in England, and the four maritime districts in Scotland."

rose to make some general observations on the report. He would for the convenience of the house have acceded to a proposition of the rt. hon. gent. over the way, (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), to defer his remarks to the second reading of the bill, but as the session was so far advanced, he was not sure of being able to address the house at another opportunity, and therefore finding he was in order now, he would proceed. The petitions from the different parts of the country were not all in favour of the measures proposed by the committee; their tenor was various. The high price of labour which the committee so much dwelt upon, arose from the high price of provisions; from the high bounty given for entering into his Majesty's land and sea service, and from the additional employment afforded of late by the vast number of inclosure acts. When these causes ceased to operate, as there was reason to think they would in a great degree very soon, the price of provisions would be moderated, and the price of labour would of course fall in proportion. The price of utensils had increased, so had the price of stock, so had the govt. taxes, but not so as to justify an alteration to the extent made by the committee. The poors rates had increased, but it was in consequence of the increased price of provisions, and the allowance to militia-men's families, when these were removed, that things would be reduced to their former level. The increased rents were also made a ground of this alteration, but the farmers had voluntarily offered these rents, from a confidence of the continuance of the high price of grain. Within these last 20 years, beef sold at 4s 6d. per stone, it was now 9s.; mutton, 4d per lb. now it is 8d.; butter 36s. a firkin, now 68s to 70s.; and cheese in proportion. He spoke of the country markets, he said, by which it appeared that every thing was doubled; yet none of these were, in his opinion, sufficient reasons for altering the laws. The various cases of hardships on the grower should have been more explained; and before we gave bounties to foreigners, for eating our corn, we ought to be provided ourselves with the produce of the pasture, at reasonable prices. Bounties serve certainty to increase the prices; and however desirable to a certain extent, they ought still to be kept within proper bounds. It was very desirable to fix the average price, so that both the consumer should be satisfied and the grower sufficiently paid, to encourage him to raise corn, in order that we might not again experience the distresses of scarcity. In the last 13 years, he said, we had imported 646,000 quarters of corn on an average. In favourable years we had exported to the amount of 6 or 700,000l. per annum. The increased population, by occasioning a greater interior demand, had lessened the exportation. Our potteries in Staffordshire, our steel Manufacres, our immense cotton establishments, and our vast trading and commercial concerns in various ways, multiplied and magnified since the year 1795, had found ample and profitable employment for this increased population, so that the diminution of the export from this cause was not to be regretted. There had been, however, a spirit of agriculture continualy increasing also, for he found that since the year 1780, there had been passed 1197 inclosure bills, so that with care and attention, he thought corn would find its own level without altering the laws.

supported the report, and stated that the corn intercourse between England and Ireland would be made the ground of a separate measure, in which the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Foster), who gave such a laudable attention to the affairs of Ireland, would be particularly consulted.

agreed as to the increased price of labour; but was afraid that the operation of this bill would fall heavily on the county of Lancaster, which was supplied with corn principally from abroad, and also from the other manufacturing counties. He objected to an average of all the districts becoming the criterion of the price of export, and thought it should be regulated by the price of particular districts, for such districts.

did not think it necessary in the present stage of the question, to enter into any minute discussion. The point, however, last adverted to, deserved immediate notice. The general object was to equalize the price of corn, and this was now more easily and more completely effected than at former periods. Within the last 20 years the great facility of communication by the canals, which intersected the whole country, was not to be forgotten; and if Lancashire, or any other county, required supply by this vast national improvement, it was to be readily afforded. No gent. could doubt that it was much preferable to supply a deficient province by this expedient from the internal resources than from foreign markets. On the plan adverted to of different ratios for the bounty in different districts, it might be the unfortunate effect that we may be importing in one district when we should be exporting in another. The design of these regulations was that scarcity should be avoided, and for this purpose it was provided, that corn should constantly acquire such a price as would be a sufficient encouragement to promote its growth. We had lately seen the value at 118l. and this arose from the deficiency, but the best means to avoid the deficit was by never admitting this department in agriculture to remain without a sufficient compensation.

said, this measure only went to put things in the same state they were in 1791, and not to alter the corn laws. Something must be done to encourage the growth of barley, for if it did not fetch a better price, the farmers could no longer grow any.

deemed it impolitic to favour grain at the expense of all other articles of produce of equal importance. He wished the measure to be put off till another session.

stated the question to be, by what means the farmer would receive a fair emolument. If that were correctly determined, he would consider for himself whether his land were most advantageously devoted to pasture or grain, and, to promote his own interest, would be most successfully to conduce to the interest of the public.

said a few words, in favour of the measure, after which the resolutions were agreed to, and reported.—Adjourned.