Thursday, June 27.

Mr. Serjeant Best gave notice that he should postpone his motion on the eleventh report of the commissioners of naval enquiry which stood for Monday, to Thursday.—Mr. Giles brought up the report of the committee on the Bank Forgery bill. The amendments were agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.—The Leith Harbour bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.—Lord Glenbervie reported from the committee of secresy, to whom so much of the eleventh report of the commissioners of naval enquiry, as relates to the advance of one hundred thousand pounds for a secret naval service, was referred; and who were empowered to report their opinion and observations thereupon to the house; that the committee had considered the matter to them referred, and had come to a resolution thereupon, which they had directed him to report to the house; and he read the report in his place, and afterwards delivered it in at the table, where the same was read; and the resolution of the committee is as followeth, Resolved, "That it is the opinion of this committee, that the said 100,000l. was advanced for an object to which the supplies granted for naval services were applicable; that the application thereof to that object was a measure in which the interests and honour of this country were concerned; that it was issued by the comptroller of the navy under orders from the lords of the treasury, with the knowledge and authority of the first lord of the admiralty, and in the fittest mode for answering the end proposed; that the clearing bill for 95,000l., part of the said sum of 100,000l., was granted on just and proper grounds; that the circumstances of the application of the money were of such a nature, that a .disclosure of them, either .at the period when they took place, or at any time since, would have been attended with public inconvenience; that it must be matter of regret, if any thing has occurred in the mean time which may have tended, in any degree, to such a disclosure; and that the reasons against such disclosure still continue, and render it the duty of the committee to abstain from entering into any farther particulars on the subject." Ordered, that the said report do lie upon the table, and be printed for the members of the house.—The British Museum bill for the purchase of the Townleian collection was committed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.—Mr. sturges Bourne obtained leave to bring in a bill to enable the commissioners of his majesty's treasury to purchase certain grounds and premises adjoining the town ball of Westminster, for public purposes. The bill was afterwards brought in, read a first time, and the second reading ordered for to-morrow.—Lingham's Divorce bill was read a second time. Evidence being heard to prove that Mrs. Lingham was out of the kingdom, the service on her mother, Mrs. Dixon, was declared to be good service.—In pursuance of a message from their lordships, the speaker attended in the house of lords, and on his return informed the house, that the royal assent had been given by commission to the Lottery bill, the Additional Stamp Duty bill, the Spanish Red Wine Duty bill, the Loyalty Loan bill, the Post-horse Farming Duty bill, the Irish Malt Duty bill, the Irish Licence bill, the commissioners of Taxes bill, the Paymaster Generals Regulation bill, the Auditors Accounts bill, the West India Imports and Exports bill, the Irish Freehold bill, the British and Irish Militia Pay bills, the Irish Compensation Commissioners bill, the Militia Subalterns bill, and a number of private bills.—On the motion of Mr. Huskisson, the house went into committees on the act relative to the drawbacks on sugar, and on the act relative to the duty on hops. The reports of these committees were ordered to be received to-morrow.—On the motion of Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Serjeant Best was ordered to be added to the committee, to whom Was entrusted the drawing up of the articles of impeachment against lord Melville.—Mr. Whitbread gave notice, that to-morrow he should move for leave to bring in a bill to indemnify Mr. Trotter from the penalties he had incurred by the acts detailed in the tenth report of the commissioners of naval enquiry.—On the motion of the secretary at war, the house went into a committee on the bill for enabling his majesty to keep in full pay the officers of the militia, notwithstanding the reduction.—Colonel Stanley introduced a clause, empowering his majesty, where the establishment of a militia regiment consisted of a colonel, two lieutenant-colonels, and two majors, in case of the death or resignation of one of the majors. to retain the junior lieutenant-colonel with his own rank, but with the pay of major alone. By this measure the hon. colonel contended, that his majesty would frequently be enabled to retain a valuable officer, who would wise be lost to the service. After a few words from the secretary at war and lord Temple, the clause was agreed to, and the house having resumed, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.—On the motion of Mr. Rose, it was ordered that the house should, to-morrow, go into a committee on the act relating to the drawbacks on the exportation of linens from Great Britain.—The Custom House Fees bill, and the Warehouse bill, went through committees, and the reports were ordered to be received to-morrow.—Mr. Rose brought in a bill for imposing additional duties on straw bonnets, &c. imported into Great Britain; and Mr. D. Giddy a bill for encouraging the Pilchard fishery, which were read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—Mr. Paull gave notice, that to-morrow he should move for papers relative to the appointment in India of the hon. Henry Wellesley.—Mr. S. Bourne brought in a bill for purchasing ground in Old Palace-yard, &c. which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—The house went into a committee on the Irish Loan act, the report of which was ordered to be received to-morrow.—Colonel Craufurd, adverting to the returns of the effective strength of the regular army that had been laid on the table yesterday, observed that in the last return the recruits at the foreign depot in Great Britain for the regiments on foreign service were stated as part of the effective strength of those regiments, while in the early returns they were not included, so that the house would be unable to judge accurately of the comparative strength of our regular army at different periods; he therefore moved, that there be laid before the house a return of the number of recruits for regiments on foreign service at the foreign depôt on the 1st of January, 1804, 1st of January, 1805, and 1st of June, 1806; observing that as these returns could with ease be made by to-morrow, he should not be obliged to delay his motion on account of them.—The secretary at war said, that in the returns of the two first periods in the hon. colonel's motions, those recruits (amounting then to 1000 men) had not been included in the return of the last period, (to the amount of 2000 men) they had been included. Colonel Craufurd's motion was then agreed to.—The Dublin Harbour Improvement bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.—On the motion of Mr. Foster, it was ordered that the house should to-morrow go into a committee on that part of a certain act which related to military surveys in Ireland.—Mr. Orinsby brought up the report of the committee of supply, the resolutions of which were read and agreed to, and bills ordered accordingly.—The Exchequer Bills bill went through a committee, in which a clause was introduced on the motion of the chancellor of the exchequer, to indemnify the bank for advancing money on the exchequer bills of the year 1803. The occasion of this clause was, that among the occasions of the vote of credit for that year, stated in the preamble of the bill, the invasion then apprehended was mentioned as the first. In engrossing the bill, by an inadvertance of which this was not the only instance, all the other Occasions but the invasion were left Out. As there could be no doubt that the objects of parliament in passing the vote of credit were not restricted to the event of the invasion the money had been advanced; and it was not till lately, perhaps from the effect of events that had recently happened, that it Occurred to them to desire this indemnity, which there could be no doubt the house would grant for their satisfaction. The clause was agreed to. The reports were ordered to be received to-morrow.—Mr. Lamb from the South-Sea company presented to the house, pursuant to orders, an account of the amount of all unclaimed dividends on the public funds, which were receivable before 10th of October 1780, remained unpaid on 30th September and 31st December in the same year, and have since been paid at the South-Sea House; and also, an account of the amount of all unclaimed dividends on the several annuities payable at the South-Sea House, which were receivable before the 10th of October 1802, and remained unpaid on 30th September and 31st December in the same year; and also, an account of all stocks standing at the South-Sea House in the name of the accountant general of the court of chancery or the deputy remembrancer of the court of exchequer, in trust for the suitors of those courts respectively; made up to the 1st of October 1804. Ordered that the said accounts do lie upon the table.—Mr. Bulle from the exchequer presented to the house, pursuant to their address to his majesty, an account of all monies which had been issued by his Majesty's orders, pursuant to the addresses of the house of commons, and which have not been made good by parliament; with a duplicate. Ordered, that the said account do lie upon the table.—Mr. Huskisson presented to the house, pursuant to their orders, return of the number of men raised for the new levies between the 1st January and 1st May 1805, which are included in the adjutant general's return of recruits raised during that period, by the ordinary mode of recruiting; and also, return of the number of men who had volunteered from the militia into the regular army under the act of the 10th April 1805, who are included in the adjutant general's return of the effective strength of the army on the 1st of May 1805. Ordered, that the said returns do lie upon the table; and be printed for the members of the house.

The chancellor of the exchequer moved the second reading of the duke of Atholl's Compensation bill, which was opposed by

Mr. Curwen, who alleged that the increasing revenue, which was one supposed ground of compensation, arose not out of the prosperity, but out of the misfortunes of the country, and that therefore his grace

had not a fair claim upon the public. He moved that the bill be committed this day three months.

Mr. Fuller suggested the propriety of appointing commissioners to enquire into the facts of the case, and report thereon to the house before the passing of the bill.

Mr. Davies Giddy did not deny that the noble duke had lost most splendid honours, but he denied that he had sustained any loss in property.

Mr. Windham said that there was not the least. appearance of a case made out on the part of the noble claimant. By the natural and fair exercise of our own power, we had so diminished the revenues of this island, that his grace voluntarily sold his inheritance for what was then a full compensation for his annual loss of income; he was neither compelled by Mr. Grenville nor any other person.—The question was then put, and the numbers were for the second reading 50, against it 12, majority 38, after which the bill was ordered to be committed to-morrow.

On the order of the day for the third reading of this bill, counsel was called in on behalf of the petitioners against the bill. Mr. Plomer appeared as counsel for the petitioners against it, from the islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, and the Isle of Man; and represented their use at considerable length. He went into the various charters, and tenures, by which the islands of Jersey and Guernsey were held by the crown of England, and maintained, that the parliament of England were not entitled to legislate internally for those islands, which had always internal regulations of their own. He dwelt very particularly on the rights of the island of Guernsey; and maintained, that this island having, as well as Jersey, been under the dominion of the dukes of Normandy, before the conquest of England, by William I. and being the only part of the original possessions of that conqueror, now under the British crown, they had as good, if not a better right, originally to legislate for Great Britain then, than Great Britain had to legislate for them. He then stated the length of time in which those islands had been in possession of this commerce, without which, they would, in fact, have no trade at all, and be deprived of their subsistence. Neither would it be ultimately beneficial to the revenue; for, thought the provisions of the bill would rain those islands for ever, yet the eventual effect would be, that, at the return of peace, the same trade would inevitably be transferred to the opposite coast of France.—After the counsel had withdrawn;

The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose, and said, that he had listened very attentively to the speech of the learned counsel, and as many of the points urged by him wore an air of argument and novelty that might appear to deserve some consideration, he should have no objection, if it was desirable to members, to postpone further proceedings on the bill till to-morrow. At the same time, he considered, that the right of a British parliament to legislate for those islands, was established by long usage, and precedents in number, beyond all possibility of doubt. He therefore moved, that the third reading of the bill be postponed till to-morrow.

Mr. Windham rose, he said, with his mind strongly impressed by the very forcible arguments which he had just heard from the learned counsel at the bar, many of which, even in a constitutional view, required very serious consideration, and, on the ground of policy, suggested the necessity of proceeding with cautious deliberation, before a law was adopted creating crimes subject to very severe punishments, and suddenly operating too upon a people to whom it would be totally new, and to whom, without some more reasonable warning, it would, no doubt, be productive of many serious and vexatious embarrassments in the way of their trade. Revenue was certainly a good thing for a minister to look to; and smuggling was a very great evil, which required the greatest vigilance and exertion for its prevention:but in this case there were other considerations also to be looked to; and first, whether this bill could be fairly considered as a constitutional infringement upon the alleged independence of those islands inhabited certainly by a people of a very ardent spirit, and who had long manifested their loyalty and attachment this realm, and to whom, perhaps, at this particular crisis, it might not be altogether wise to give any feasible cause of irritation, by the passing a law which could not fail to operate vexatiously, if it was to have any very speedy effect, and the motives for which, the people on whom it would operate, had not fully or fairly before them: and, secondly, whether in grasping at money, we might not risk the loss of the islands. He was not going to question at this moment the right of the country to legislate for those islands, the right of the strong over

the weak. It was to the prudence of the proceeding at this particular crisis that his doubts were directed. He took shame to himself, that he had not attended to the previous progress of the bill, but he thought the objections to it were in no inconsiderable degree increased, by the proposed law being brought in as a clause in another bill, instead of being, as it ought, a distinct measure, and being brought forward at so late a period in the session. He was glad, however, the, right hon. gent had agreed to postpone proceeding, but thought it should be to a more distant day.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer answered, that with respect to the right of a British parliament to legislate for those islands, no doubt whatever could exist, as the right had been established time immemorial by usage and precedent. He did not feel it necessary to go quite so far back, as the learned counsel in tracing the question. But it would be found, on recurring to the rolls of parliament, in the reign of Edward the IIId and to the statutes of queen Anne, that the British parliament had passed laws imposing duties on, and otherwise legislating internally for those islands. That the act of habeas corpus, in the reign of Charles II. extended its operations to those islands by name, in the same manner as in this country, and that an act of the 2d of George II. imposed a sixpenny duty on ships in their ports, for the support of Greenwich hospital, to be collected by officers within their islands; and here again was internal legislation. The act of settlement also annexed those islands to the British dominions, and required that all civil and military officers within those islands, should take the oaths of allegiance to the British crown; therefore the question of legislative right was put beyond all doubt. He was aware of the hon. gent.'s observation, as to the ardent spirit of the inhabitants of those islands; that one was more jealous than the other of its aristocratical dignity, on the ground of high descent, and that the other might feel jealousy on the score of what they called the rights of fair trade;—very different construction, however, from that species of commerce, from what it usually bore in this country. However, it would not be denied, that revenue was a matter of most material consideration to this country in the midst of a war; and when it was remembered, that the loss of revenue occasioned to the country by the smuggling trade, carried on through the medium of those islands, was

not trivial, but enormous, he trusted the house would feel the necessity of adopting effectual checks for reducing the commerce of those islands to the same controul with all the other branches of his majesty's dominions. That the measure had not been discussed sooner was not his fault: it was introduced early in the session, and printed above a month; there was a petition against it before the house for a considerable time, and the parties were at liberty to come forward by their counsel, if they had so thought fit, in any former stage of the bill, without waiting to the very last stage.

Mr. Grey coincided in the objections of his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham) and said, there was one point urged by the counsel, which struck him as a circumstance for very mature consideration; namely, that of bringing persons from withinthe jurisdiction of their own laws and government for crimes created by this bill, and trying them before a British court and jury. He would admit that smuggling was there carried on to a most mischievous extent. He lived on a part of the coast where he had opportunities of knowing the fact; but he thought it would be wise to try if the evil could not be checked by other means, without resorting to a measure of this nature. Were. it in time of peace, the only effect would most probably be to transfer the trade now carried on at those islands to the French coast; but in a period of war, and when these islands were to this country so valuable as a commercial medium, no risks should, be run of a loss infinitely greater than any benefit to be derived through the operation of this bill.

Mr. Fellowes allowed it was a strong bill; but it was admitted by all who best knew the extent of the evil, that nothing but a strong measure could check it.

Mr. Sturges Bourne thought it rather a strange argument to offer to a British parliament, that the independence of those islands was less injured by being governed under the more arbitrary principle of edicts from the king in council, than under the constitutional protection of a British parliament. With respect to the observation of the hon. member who spoke last but one, namely, the bringing persons out of the jurisdiction of Guernsey and Jersey to be tried in England for crimes committed within that jurisdiction, it was by no means intended by this bill; and if the clause was thought to be worded so as to convey that meaning, it would certainly be modified, for it was meant that all crimes committed within those

jurisdictions should be also tried there.—The further proceeding on the bill was deferred till to-morrow.—Adjourned.