Monday, July 1.

The committee on the Irish Revenue Regulation bill, the further consideration of the Report of the Irish Customs Regulation bill, the consideration of the Lords' Amendments to the Irish Distillers' bill, and the further consideration of the Report of the Dublin Paving bill, were, on the motion of Mr. Vansittart, put off to tomorrow.—The Irish Spanish Red Wine Duty bill passed through a Committee, to be reported to-morrow. —Lingham's Divorce bill was committed, Mr. Parke was heard on the part of Mr. Lingham. Several witnesses were examined touching the circumstance of the case, and the service of the notice of the bill on Mrs. Dixon, Mrs. Lingham's mother. The bill then passed through the Committee, to be reported to-morrow.— The third reading of the Distillers bill was put off to to-morrow.— The house went into a Committee on the Parliamentary Bankrupts Privilege bill; to be reported to-morrow.— Mr. Whitbread moved "that a Committee be appointed to examine the Lords' Journals respecting the Reports of the Commissioners of Public Accounts, and their proceedings thereon, and that the Committee appointed to draw up articles of Impeachment against Henry Lord Viscount Melville be the said Committee." Ordered.— Lord A. Hamilton moved the third reading of the Corn bill. After a short conversation, in which Mr. Ferguson objected to the measure, which lord Archibald Hamilton defended, and sir John Sinclair consented to support, as a temporary expedient, laying in his claim at the smile time, if the bill should he found to be injurious, to propose its repeal in a future session. The Secretary at War also, and Mr. Holt Lee, spoke briefly in favour of the bill, after which Mr. Ferguson withdrew his opposition to the measure, and the bill was read a third time and passed.— A message from the lords informed the house, that their lordships had agreed to the Woollen Manufacturer's Penalty Suspension bill, the Irish and English Corn Exportation bill, the East India Woollens Exportation bill, and the Irish Loyalist Compensation Commissioners bill, without any amendments; also, to the Irish Assessed Taxes bill, and the Irish Paper Duty bill, each with an amendment, and that they had passed a bill for continuing the proceedings in the case of Judge Fox, in which they desired the concurrance of the house.— Mr. Rose obtained leave to bring in a bill for the better regulation of Pilots for piloting vessels navigating the British seas.— An humble address was ordered to his majesty on the motion of Mr. Kinnaird, that his majesty Would be graciously pleased to give directions, that there be laid before the house copies of any reports that tray have been laid before his majesty by the commissioners appointed for regulating the civil affairs of the Navy. The address was ordered to be presented by such members as are of his majesty's privy council.— The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the third reading of the University Advowson bill. After short discussion, the bill was read the third time and passed.

Sir A.S. Hamond trusted that he should be indulged in moving, without a notice, for a paper which he thought necessary to have on the table, with a view to the discussion to-morrow. Amongst the papers ordered on the motion of the hon. admiral opposite (Markham) was a letter from the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to the Navy Board, dated the 19th October, 1802, inclosing a copy of their Lordships minutes of the 16th of the same month. if this letter was to be laid before the house, he thought the answer to it ought also to be produced. He therefore begged.

leave to move "that there he laid before the house a Copy of the Letter from the Navy Board to the Secretary of the Admiralty, dated Nov. 15th, 1802, in answer to the above letter."

Admiral Markham rose, not, he said, to oppose the production of the paper now moved for, as he had no objection to the production of any paper whatsoever that might give the house any necessary information on this subject, but to express some degree of surprise at the circumstance of moving for a paper, declared to be of some importance, on the very evening previous to the discussion of an important subject to which it related, and when it would be impossible to have that paper in the hands of members in time preparatory to that discussion. There were many papers for which he had moved, and which were nor yet printed. There were many others which he also might think important, and might be desirous of moving for; but his only reason for not so moving was a wish not to impede any longer the proposed discussion.

Sir A. S. Hamond wished only that the answer should be in possession of the house as well as the letter. No delay had arisen on the part of the navy board respecting the production of the papers that had been ordered by the house, every clerk having been employed in preparing them.

Mr. Kinnaird rose to express his extreme reluctance, that a discussion of so much magnitude and importance should be pressed forward on to-morrow, when now, upon the very eve of that discussion, it was declared by hon. gentlemen on both sides of the house, and both highly interested in that discussion, that there were yet many papers of importance to the question, and which were absolutely necessary to inform the house, not yet laid before it, and which it would now be impossible to bring forward. To the hon. member who proposed to bring forward the subject to-morrow, no blame could attach; nor could any man say, that he had not given the house ample time to prepare; but if he was now in his place, he (Mr. Kinnaird) should not hesitate to put the matter to his own liberality, whether it would he fair or candid, even after all the delay to which he had acceded, to press the house to a decision, and at this period of the session, for which it now appeared it could not he duly prepared. He should hope, that if the hon. member was now in his place, he would have no objection to the still f rther postponement of his motion.

The chancellor of the Exchequer had no

hesitation in saying that he entirely agreed with the hon. gent. opposite; that, in the present state of the session, and under the present circumstances, whilst so many essential documents were yet to be laid before the house, they should not be called on to decide on so important a subject. So sensible was he of the necessity of some further delay, in order to enable the house to come fully prepared to the discussion of this subject, that he was ready to join any hon. gent. in using every means to persuade the hon. member to defer his motion to the next session of parliament.

Mr. Jeffery rose, and said, he felt it extremely hard upon him, after the repeated delays to which he had acceded, week after week; after the pains he had taken to prepare himself on this subject, that he should now be called upon to postpone it to a future session of parliament. He had only to say, that, from the documents he had moved, he was prepared to substantiate his charges against the noble earl; and that, although delay was now proposed for the want of other documents not yet laid before the house, he could truly assert that the papers which had been moved for by the hon. admiral had no more relevancy to the subject than to any other subject, however extraneous. He begged, however, to remind the house, that he was prepared to substantiate his charges against the noble lord, to the full satisfaction of the house, and to prove that to which he had already pledged himself; namely, that lord St. Vincent was the worst enemy this country ever had. (A loud cry of order! order!) He would repeat the assertion, and he was ready to substantiate the fact; and however severe upon himself, or hurtful to his feelings, to be called on, after so many delays, and so much pains as he had taken to prepare himself for the task he had undertaken, to postpone the business to another session, yet, if it was the sense of the house that he should do so, he would submit; at the same time, however, solemnly pledging himself not to recede from his object one inch, and that no man or body of men should, by any endeavours to procrastinate, prevent him from bringing it forward immediately after the opening of the next session of parliament.

Admiral Markham said, that, as to the hon. gentleman's assertions in relation to the noble earl, they were not worthy of an answer, nor would he condescend to notice them by giving one. But with respect to the necessity of members having an opportunity of perusing the papers laid before the

house for their information upon so important a question, that he believed would be admitted, as he saw a large bundle of those papers now in the hands of an hon. member, which he should have thought it necessary to move should be printed, but that he saw it would have been impossible to print them in time for the discussion proposed for to-morrow, and which it was by no means his intention to express any wish for postponing. But how the hon. gent. could venture to assert that those papers, for which he (admiral Markham) had moved, would have no relevancy to the subject, he was really at a loss to conceive. How did the hon. gent. contrive to pick up his knowledge of this fact? Was he privy to the correspondence of the admiralty board, or how could he know any thing of the substance of that correspondence? Was it in his country residence he received this intelligence? or had he any private access to the books of the admiralty, that he could assume to know so well what was or what was not relevant to this subject in the contents of those books? He had a right to have some knowledge on this subject from his situation; he conceived the papers he moved for necessary and relevant to the purpose, and his assertion was at least as good authority as that of the hon. gent. He merely wished to ask the hon. gent. whether he meant to bring forward his motion tomorrow, or to put it off? Because, if the latter, he had a great number of papers to move for, which he conceived highly essential upon a question of so much magnitude, because, giving the hon. gent. credit for all the goodness of intention he professed on the enquiry, he wished to extend his object by rendering the information of the house as complete as possible on the subject.

Sir A. S. Hamond, as the letter of the Admiralty had been ordered, thought the answer ought also to be laid before the house. He thought, too, that the hon. admiral should move for any papers he might think necessary this session.

Mr. Jeffery begged to be indulged in a word or two in answer to the hon. admiral's question, as to the source of his information. It was not derived from any clandestine privity, or improper access to the books of the Admiralty, but from the drawer in the table of that house, where those papers, moved far by the hon. admiral, had lain ten whole days before he presumed to move for their being printed.

Mr. Tierney observed, that the assertions made by the hon. member who spoke last, would go forth to the injury of earl St. Vin-

cent's character, without the opportunity of that complete refutation which he had the fullest confidence they would receive, upon a fair discussion of the subject. He therefore regretted exceedingly that the discussion should be postponed; at the same time, however, it could not be denied that the house was entitled to the full possession of every necessary information or document which could be obtained upon a question of so much magnitude, and that every paper necessary to the knowledge of either side of the house, should he laid before them preparatory to a full and fair investigation. in order to this, it was extremely desirable, and it was but fair to ask, that the hon. gent. would state shortly the several heads of his charges against the noble earl, in order that his friends might know to what points the defence was to he directed, and what further documents it might be necessary to move for. He had not himself asked for the smallest delay; but now that the motion was deferred, he might say, that, if the discussion had been brought forward under the present circumstances on an ex parte statement, it would have been a most gross and unwarrantable proceeding. The right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer deserved great credit for the part he had taken on the occasion, which alone had weight, as the merits of the case had no share in inducing the hon. gent. to put off the business.

Mr. Jeffery wished to know to what length he was required to state the subject of those charges. If the house thought him at liberty, he had no objection to state, that he charged earl St, Vincent, that from his appointment to the office of first lord of the Admiralty, in 1801, until his departure from that situation, that he neither kept the ships of his majesty's navy committed to his charge in. proper repair, nor did he do more than such a proportion as one is to eight, of the repairs. actually required to place the navy in a proper state: that he did not lay down ships to be built in his majesty's dock yards for the necessary strength of the navy, but precluded himself from so doing by a sudden and rash discharge of the artificers employed in those yards: that he did not procure the necessary supply of timber for the building, or repair of ships, but defeated that supply in the principal source whence it could have been obtained: that he took no steps to procure the building or repair of ships, in any thing like the proportion lie should have done, with a prospect of war: that—

Mr. Kinnaird rose to order. He thought it not regular upon a notice of motion to

send these things forward to the public, which could not at that time be submitted to a regular discussion.

The Speaker interposed, and said, the hon. member was called on to state the heads of the charges it was his intention to bring forward, and it was perfectly in order for him to proceed.

Mr. Jeffery, continued, and charged, that within one month of. the renewal of hostilities with France, the noble lord employed his whole force in laying up the fleets in ordinary. He did mean to charge, that in no one way did earl St. Vincent keep the ships under his charge in the repair that he ought; in no one way did he endeavour, either in the king's yards or the merchant's yards, to procure the building of ships necessary to keep the navy in a proper state; and these facts he would prove to the satisfaction of the house, and in contradiction to any man who would dare to assert the contrary.

Mr. Wilberforce wished the hon. gent. to state to the house the nature and object of his motion, in a clear and comprehensive way, that the house might he fully aware of the subject it had to discuss, and members might be fully prepared, in the course of the vacation, to meet the question with competence, when it should be brought forward.

Sir W. Elford said, his hon. friend had fully stated the heads of his several charges, but it was hardly fair to call him to stare precisely the motion be intended to ground upon those charges. Here the conversation ended. Sir A. S. Hamond's motion was agreed to, and the motion of Mr. Jeffery was understood to be put off till next session.

Mr Wilberforce, in conformity with his notice, moved for an address to his majesty for the appointment of commissioners to enquire into those claims. He went over a great part of the ground of argument taken upon former debates, and asked what were the reason for thinking that the duke was not fairly dealt with in the bargain concluded in the yea 1765? Had that great family not then, a well as now, a sufficient number of friend in parliament to obtain justice for it? The sum of 70,000l. granted by parliament was the whole of the compensation which he asked, and if it was not sufficient, why did he not demand more? It was evident that the transaction was settled between friends, who did justice to the claims; and now, after the expiration of forty years, the house was called upon to open the transaction again. The present duke came into possession in the year 1774, and it was not till fifteen year

afterwards, and twenty-five years after the compact, that he made application to parliament again. Commissioners of enquiry were then appointed, and on their report they did not recommend any compensation. Had things remained in their former state, and the rights of the duke remained untouched, there would not have been since that increase of revenue, which seemed to lay the foundation of the present claim. He could foresee no solid objection to his motion, for the enquiries of the commissioners would, in all probability, he concluded in six months, and there would be no argument of delay on that account in regard to a measure which had been lying dormant for the last forty years. He concluded with moving "That an humble address be presented to his majesty, beseeching him that he would be graciously pleased to appoint commissioners to enquire into the claims and allegations of the duke of Atholl relative to the Isle of Man; and on a full consideration of all the circumstances of the transaction to report what compensation, if any, it may be proper to allow his grace, and the heirs of the seventh earl of Derby, in consequence of any detriment they may have sustained from the sale of that island to the crown."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that he had heard little else that night than a recapitulation of former arguments on the subject. One point, however, he thought worthy of notice, that was the supposition of the entire voluntary concurrence of the duke of Atholl to the original agreement about the disposal of his rights in the Isle of Man. It must be recollected that an over rigorous measure had been adopted by that house in order to terrify that noble duke; that he was not unlike a person who capitulated on terms. Was it, then, surprising that he should have been rather glad to give up a part than face the danger which then threatened the whole of his revenue? The present duke now came to appeal to the liberality of the house, and that house would certainly not think of pleading a statute of limitation to their liberality; they would not think of ordering that any precise sum should be ascertained and proved as if it were in a court of law; they would not think of guiding their conduct by formal rules or precedents, as if they had to tax a bill of costs, But they would give with a liberality worthy of the great object which was submitted to them, and becoming the honour and liberal character of parliament.

Mr. Windham spoke in support of the motion; and observed, that the subject did not

appear to have been sufficiently understood out of doors. The proceedings of that house generally found their way to the public; but it seemed that the gentlemen concerned in these publications had ears so fastidious, that they did not condescend to notice this question in the same manner as they did others, or he was convinced that it would have excited a very strong sensation upon the public mind. He knew not to what influence this suppression was to be attributed; but it was plain, that if the minister found means to go on with his business, without letting the by-stander know what he was about, there could be no controul upon him, and he might act just as he pleased, provided he could secure the silence of the journals. It could not be alleged that any part of the lawful property of the duke of Atholl was taken from him in this transaction; and as for the suppression of smuggling, he did not see why the parliament had not as good, if not a much better right to legislate in that case for the isle of Man, as it lately asserted in the case of the islands of Jersey and Guernsey. The duke had set his own price upon the value of his rights, which he received; and to say that the British parliament imposed unjust or oppressive terms on him, was too gross to be believed. If the present claim was acceded to, where was the security that the duke would not in the same way come annually to parliament, and that his claims may not continue as a perpetual rent charge upon the country? It might, perhaps, be thought hard in him, to use a vulgar expression, which might be said not to have classical authority in its favour, though it had been used by Pope, Swift, Steele, and the other authors of their day; but he must hope to be excused, if he could call it no better than a mere job of the minister. He was not one of those who would represent such a vote as likely to tend to dearness in the price of provisions, or the imposition of additional taxes, but he thought it infinitely too much for the public to grant as a matter of private or personal favour from the minister.

Mr. Sheridan said, he never rose with more reluctance to add to the fatigue which the house had already undergone upon this subject. As to the unclassical word 'job,' for which his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham) had, however, thought proper to quote very respectable authorities, he had only to say, that the insinuation had already been refuted at least five times over, in the discussion on this subject. This must appear to the house to be merely a debate of repetition, and the notes from which his right hon. friend spoke,

must, of course, be notes of his former speeches. When the right hon. gentleman spoke of jobs, he, at least, thought himself entitled to be exempted from the suspicion of being an advocate for them, or in any sense a mercenary politician; and he supported the claims of the noble duke, not from any personal favour whatever, for he declared, that he was not at all acquainted with him, and had never spoken to him in the course of his life. Allusions had been made to a canvass. by the friends of the duke, but the thin attendance of the day shewed, that the treasury or the ministers were not concerned in it; and in a thin house, at the end of the session, he always thought that any man who opposed a measure had an advantageous pull upon the minister, who was principally solicitous to bring the business to a conclusion. Very few dukes ever stood before parliament in the situation of the duke of Atholl, whose influence did not command a single seat in that house either for England or Scotland, and who was confined to his own solitary vote in the house of peers. His parliamentary influence might therefore be considered as nothing; he stood merely on the merits of his claims, and he was the more entitled to compensation, as being governor of the Isle of Man, it would still he very much in his power to add to the revenues and population (a laugh,) no doubt also, of that interesting island. He confessed himself to have been a great deal surprised at what his right hon. friend had insinuated, of the minister's influence over the newspapers on this subject. It was singular enough to hear such an observation from a person who professed himself the determined enemy of such publications, and who declared, that nothing could he a greater blessing to the constitution of this country, than if the reports of parliamentary transactions were suppressed, and that its constituents should know nothing of the proceedings of that house. It might not he regular in him to suppose that there were any strangers within hearing, or that there was any such thing as reporters in the house; but as it was pretty well known that there were some means of conveying the discussions of parliament to the public, and as he observed that it was done with great accuracy, and, in general. with impartiality, he must conclude that the gentlemen employed in that department had nice and fastidious ears, and were able to discriminate that which was most worthy of attention. When these discussions commenced, some sketches of them had been given to the public; but when there were debates of repetition, and the same arguments used over

and over again, gentlemen of taste, in the report of them, must have some consideration for their readers. He had always considered publications of that nature as matters of the first importance to the constitution and the country; and, in regard to their influence upon the public mind, in the case of the duke of Atholl, he had no great respect for the authority or opinion of a gentleman, who always professed himself a determined enemy to them. He then read several extracts from letters and other papers, to shew that the bargain was absolutely forced upon the duke of Atholl. (At this time, Mr. Wilberforce came over, and took his seat on the opposition bench). He was extremely happy, he said, to have already experienced his observations to he so forcible as to induce the hon. mover of the question to come over to his side; but as he did not understand the half signs he was making to him (Mr. Wilberforce immediately retired to the opposite side), he supposed he now quitted him from the fear of being touched by the vital truth of the question. He said that a sense of delicacy would prevent him from alluding to the termination of the life of the former duke of Atholl, after having been compelled to accept of this bargain, but there were abundance of proofs to shew that he had not retired as a grateful and contented man. He then adverted to various papers and documents in proof of this assertion, and mentioned that lord Frederick Campbell, and some other friends, had remonstrated in that house against the injustice and oppression of the contract; after which he concluded with giving his negative to the motion.

Mr. Curwen denied that his grace of Atholl had the ability to increase the fair revenues of the island to the extent, or in the manner which had been supposed; and supported the motion for enquiry.

Earl Temple spoke also in favour of the motion. He denied that the opinion of a noble relative of his was favourable to the claims of the noble duke.

Mr. Barham adverted to an expression which had fallen from a right hon. gent. opposite him (Mr. Windham), and said that he would be equally justified in his application of the word 'job;' he might, with equal propriety, say, that all opposition to further compensation was a job.

Sir William Elford was of opinion that a fair appeal was made, not only to the liberality, but to the justice, of the house.

Mr. Bakes supported the motion, as there did not appear to him to be any facts before the house upon which it could be enabled to form a correct judgment on the case. It was, of all others, a case that most particularly called for enquiry; and the most proper way to do that would be by the appointment of commissioners.

Mr. W. Smith spoke at some length for the motion.

Mr. Graham assured the house, from the habits of familiar friendship he had the honnour to be in that noble family, the duke of Athol would be satisfied, and receive with Gratitude whatever the house should think fit to grant on this occasion.

Sir W. Burroughs supported the noble duke's claim, and opposed the motion for a Committee of Enquiry as unnecessary. — Afther a few words from Mr. Wilberforce in reply, the house divided, when there appeared, for the motion, 23; against it, 61; majority, 38. — Adjourned.