House Of Commons
Wednesday January 29.
Minutes
On the motion of Mr. S. Bourne, it was ordered, that the house should, at its rising, adjourn to Friday, to-morrow being the anniversary of king Charles's martyrdom.—It was also ordered, on the motion of Mr. S. Bourne, that the house should not receive any private petitions after Friday, 7th March. The Speaker recommended this order to the attention of the house. It was certainly in the discretion of the house, whether it would extend the time for receiving printed petitions further. But in making the order, it was understood, that a proper limit was fixed. The time allowed by the present order was fully sufficient, if those who might have petitions to present would pay due attention to the convenience of the house, and much trouble would he spared by this observance.—Mr. S. Bourne presented to the house, "an Account of the amount of premiums, bounties, and sums of money, expended under act 41 Geo. III. cap. 99, for granting bounties for taking and bringing Fish to London and Westminster, and other places in the United Kingdom, in the last season; which premiums or bounties have been given in consequence of directions from the lords commissioners of his majesty's treasury; with a duplicate thereof." Ordered to lie upon the table.—The house resolved itself into a committee of ways and means, and voted the duties on land, malt, pensions, offices, sugar, tobacco, and snuff. The report was ordered to be received on Friday.—Mr. Young, from the commissioners of the customs, presented at the bar, "an Account of the total number of vessels, with the amount of their tonnage, which had been registered in his majesty's dominions on the 30th Sept. in the years 1803 and 4; distinguishing each year; and also, an account of the number of vessels, with the amount of their tonnage, which have been annually built and registered in the several ports of the British Empire, between 5th Jan. 1793 and 5th Jan. 1805. Ordered to lie upon the table.—5 Mr. James Fitzgerald gave notice that on Friday next, he would move for leave to bring in. a bill to ascertain the exact state of the population of Ireland.
Affairs Of India
rose to make his promised motion, respecting the production of lord Melville's letter, relative to the Company's debt. Many persons might be perhaps disposed to ask, upon what grounds such a young member as he was, should obtrude himself so frequently on the house on the affairs of India. To such persons his answer was plain and simple. He was conscious of the imminent danger which threatened our India possessions, and therefore, he was resolved to raise his voice, however feeble, with a view to rouse the attention of the house to this point. The house did not seem to be aware of the alarming state of the affairs of India. When the debt of India amounted to 14 millions, lord Melville had written to the chairman of the company, re- commending a plan, which, in those circumstances, appeared to him absolutely necessary to be pursued, and expressing his opinion, that if it was not pursued, the consequences would be dangerous, not only to the concerns of the East-India company, but injurious to the prosperity of the country at large. His object in moving for this letter of lord Melville, written when the debt of the company was only 14 millions, was this: he designed, on some future day, to move for a select committee of the house, to enquire into the causes of the alarming increase of the debt of the company, and of their failure to comply with the conditions and stipulations agreed upon in their charter. The object which he had at present in view, was one of the last importance, since the debt of the company had increased from 14 to 30 millions, in the thirteenth year from the renewal of their charter, without any of the conditions agreed upon having been performed on their parts. It was high time to enquire into the causes of these singular circumstances. It was with this view that he moved for the letter of lord Melville. Having read the motion, the hon. gent. begged leave to add one word more: lord Melville had written to the court of directors upon this subject, in the most earnest manner; and, indeed, his opinion had been given them, in some measure, with all the solemnity of a death-bed warning. He would say this of lord Melville, that his plans for the regulation of India were well conceived, and discovered proofs of no ordinary comprehension in him who proposed them. Upon the execution of them, indeed, he was of opinion, that the very existence of India, as connected with this country, depended, and therefore he hoped that the directors themselves would come forward and promote this enquiry; or, if not, that the board, would come forward and give every assistance to the measure. If the debt of 14 millions appalled lord Melville, what ought to be the vigour and attention employed now, when the debt amounted to 30 millions? The directors and the board of controul were in some degree bound by these circumstances to come forward and give their support to such an enquiry as he proposed. It would be said, and he wished to anticipate this objection, that the alarming increase of the debt arose from the wars that had taken place in India. He was firmly persuaded, however, that the debt had not increased from this cause particularly, and he engaged to shew, unless the directors came forward in this affair, that it was owing to cause of a very different natures. He was resolved, at least as far as lay in his power, to fix responsibility where it ought to attach, and this was the great object which he had in view, in the efforts which he made, and was inclined to make, on this subject. The hon. gent. concluded by moving, "That there be laid before the house a copy of the letter from the right hon. Henry Dundas, now lord viscount Melville, to the chairman of the East-India Company, dated the 30th of June, 1801."
said, he had no objection to the production of the letter now called for, but at the same time he wished it to be understood that in acceding to this he did not by any means accede to the propriety and truth of the observations of the hon. gent. who had made the motion, or to any future motions or opinions that might, by him, be founded upon it. This also he must say, that the hon. gento had not acted altogether with strict fairness, in making his motion so early, and prefacing it with so many remarks, which would have been more properly introduced when those were present who might be able, from the situations they held, to meet them in a clear and proper manner. The hon. gent. had adverted to the cause of the increase of the debt, and touched upon one argument against him, which he wished to in anticipate. He was correct in supposing that war would be alledged as the great cause of the increase of the India Debt, and he had no doubt that when the subject came to be investigated, this would be proved to be the real state of the case.
wished to say one word in reply. He had come early to the house, and had certainly waited a reasonable time for those who might be best informed upon, and most interested in this business. It was not his wish to take the house, or any person in it, by surprise; but he had a most important object in view, and was convinced that delay would be highly prejudicial to the interests of the country. If there was a cause of the debt, foreign to the war in which India had been engaged, and if by this cause the public had been deprived of the benefits that might result from the performance of the conditions of the East-India Company's charter, it was high time the business should be investigated, and that no delay should take place, beyond what was absolutely necessary from the nature of the thing itself.—The motion was then put and agreed to. After which the hon. gent. gave notice, that on Tuesday se'nnight he would move for a select committee to enquire into the causes of the alarming increase of the debt of the East-India company, and of their failure to perform the conditions, terms, and stipulations, contained in their charter.
Army Estimates
presented estimates of the expences of the army in Great Britain and Ireland, on the continent, and the colonies, of guards and garrisons, militia forces, &c. for three months, from 25th Dec. 1805. The right hon. gent. in giving notice that it was his intention to move these estimates on Friday, thought it necessary to state, that he brought them before the house in consequence of the total exhaustion of the funds granted last year for the army estimates, by which an immediate provision was required for the current service. He had framed them on the scale of the last year, and the short period of three months, in order that the new administration might have an early opportunity of reconsidering them and making any alteration they might think proper. Under these circumstances, he trusted there could be no objection to his moving them on Friday.