House Of Commons
Friday, February 3, 1809.
Navy Estimates
moved that 130,000 seamen should be employed for the year 1809, including 31,400 royal marines, which were voted accordingly. The hon. gent. then stated, that the Estimates for this number of seamen and marines were precisely the same in amount with the estimates of the last year, though it had been thought desirable to make some alterations in the comparative amount of some of the branches. The allowance for wear and tear was last year taken at three pound per man, whilst the provision for victuals was estimated at 1l. 19s. only per man per month. The latter estimate had been found to fall greatly short of the actual expenditure, whilst the wear and tear fell considerably below the actual estimate. The committee would therefore be aware of the propriety of endeavouring to reduce, both to an amount that should be nearest the truth, and this he proposed to accomplish by taking a guinea from the allowance for wear and tear, and adding to the allowance for victuals. The following sums were then moved by Mr. Ward, and voted by the committee: For wages for 130,000 seamen and marines for thirteen months, at 1l. 17s. per man per month, 3,126,500l. For wear and tear of ships for ditto during the same period, at 1l. 19s. per man per month, 3,295,500l. For victuals for ditto during the same period, at 2l. 19s. per man per month, 4,935,500l. The hon. gent. then observed, that the house would learn with satisfaction, that the number of seamen now serving in the navy, covered entirely, if it did not exceed, the number which the committee had just voted.
On the question that a sum of 591,600 l. should be voted for Ordnance for the number of men voted,
could not suffer this subject to pass, without expressing a hope, that his majesty's ministers entertained a disposition to regulate the course of proceeding at Doctors' Commons. It was his opinion, that the offices of king's advocate and king's proctor ought to be divided. He did not mean to object to the vole of any sum for the navy; but he mustadd, that he should like to see those who were to manage the expenditure of it, such as ten commissioners of the navy and of victualling, selected from amongst naval men. The practice, as well as the whole system of selecting officers of the army for such offices, he deemed altogether improper, as the appointment of persons not acquainted with naval affairs, to such situations, could not but be most mischievous. In the estimates then under consideration, he lamented that he did not see any provision made for the protection and support of the orphans of marine officers, and hoped that before the end of the session, some establishment, corresponding to the Compassionate Fund for the army, should be instituted for the navy. This he looked upon as a proper time for mentioning the subject; and if it should not be taken up by his majesty's ministers, in whose hands it most properly ought to be left, he should feel it to be his duty to submit the matter to the house in the course of the session. The sum was then voted; after which, on the motion of Mr. Huskisson, two several sums of 10,500,000l. and 1,500,000l. were voted to be raised by exchequer bills, to pay off similar sums of exchequer bills issued last session, and now outstanding and unprovided for.
Conduct Of The Duke Of York
previous to going into the Committee of Inquiry into the Conduct of his royal highness the Duke of York, wished to correct the error to which he had alluded yesterday, in his former evidence.
informed the hon. member, that the time for offering any thing relevant to his former evidence, would be, when the house should have resolved itself into a committee. The matter then immediately before the house, was the notice the hon. gent. had yesterday given, of a motion for certain Papers or Books, from the Office of the Commander in Chief. After a short conversation, which led to the omission of a part of Mr. Wardle's original motion, the following motion was agreed to: "That the proper officer from the Office of the Commander-in-Chief do attend the Committee of the whole House, appointed to inquire into the Conduct of his royal highness the Duke of York, with the Book containing the Applications for Purchase by Subaltern Officers, within the period in which Captain Maling had his three Commissions given to him." The house having then resolved itself into the Committee, Mr. Wharton in the Chair,
begged to call the attention of the committee to the correction he had to make of his former evidence. He had on the former night stated that he had not seen Mrs. Clarke on Tuesday morning, though he had waited a considerable time in her drawing-room for the purpose of seeing her. On recollection, however, he found that it was on Monday he had waited a long time in the drawing-room, and that on the morning of Tuesday he had seen Mrs. C. for a few minutes, as well as in the evening, as he had before stated.
observed, that in the explanation of the hon. member, there was some ambiguity, in as much as the words "as I before stated" might be construed to the correction of the former evidence now first given as well as to the former statement of the honourable gentleman.
declared that he meant the words "as I before stated" to apply solely to the interview which he had with Mrs. Clarke, for a few minutes in her drawing-room, on Tuesday evening, and which he had stated in his former examination. On the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the questions and answers relative to Mr. Wardle's interviews with Mrs. Clarke on Tuesday, were read from the notes of the short-hand writer, from which it appeared, that in his former examination Mr. Wardle had fallen into an error, which he had in this instance corrected, namely, by stating that he had not seen Mrs. Clarke at all on Tuesday morning. The admission therefore, that the hon. member had seen Mrs. Clarke on the morning of that day, was added to his evidence, but in order to avoid ambiguity, the words "as I have stated before" were expunged.
Examination Of C L Wardle, Esq
( By the Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
You were at Mrs. Clarke's, as you state, on the Tuesday morning? Yes.
And saw Mrs. Clarke? Yes.
Was Mrs. C. at home when you called? I believe she was up stairs.
How long might you be at her house before you saw her? I do not think very long. A short time.
How long did you stay there? I cannot speak very correctly; it is impossible for me to say exactly; perhaps half an hour or thereabouts. I believe I was in my carriage; but I am not. certain.
You came there in your carriage? I think so: but I am not very positive. I have been so constantly in the habits of going there that it is impossible for me to say: but I rather think I was in my carriage.
Do you recollect how long you were there? Upon my word I do not, or else I would answer most fully; but to say positively that I can name a time, it really is not in my power.
At what hour of the day did you go there? Upon my word I cannot exactly say; I think the first time I saw Mrs. C. on Tuesday was early in the morning.
About what time? Upon my word I do not know the hour; but I remember going down in her carriage with her to the end of the King's Road.
On the Tuesday morning? Yes, on the Tuesday morning.
You called upon her in the morning? Yes.
At what time in the morning did you call upon her first? It was after breakfast; I should think about eleven or twelve o'clock. I do not speak positively.
Was it at that time you called upon her in your carriage? No, it was not; I think I walked there.
How long did you stay with her on that occasion when you called there, having walked there? To the best of my recollection, there were a parcel of workmen putting up looking glasses, and things of that kind, in the house: and I do not think I was there more than a short time.
Half an hour? Upon my word I cannot say; if it is of any consequence, I will endeavour to recollect. I rather think to the best of my recollection, but I speak without certainty to these points, that her carriage was at the door, I am not certain.
Did you go out with her in her carriage? I did.
On that morning? Yes, as far as the bar at the bottom of the King's Road.
Did you call upon her afterwards in your carriage on that day? I think I did in my carriage. I called upon her that day.
At what time did you call upon her in your carriage? I really cannot exactly say; I should think it might have been three o'clock. I do not speak to an hour, but, as far as I can recollect, that was the time. It has since occurred to me where I had been; I had taken a long walk, and returned and went to her house in my carriage.
Did you sec her when you called upon her in your carriage? I did.
She was at home then? I think she was up stairs, and came down soon.
Then Mrs. C. saw you the second time? She saw me the second time.
Do you recollect how long you staid with her the second time? I do not think long: I should think about half an hour: I do not know whether it was so much. I cannot be positive as to the time.
Then I understand you to have said, that you saw her a third time in the evening? As I have before stated, I saw her at night in her drawing-room, with some company, for a very short time.
You called upon her the morning before; the Monday? I did.
Mrs. C. was not at home then? She was not at home; and I was under a mistake on the former night, in supposing that what occurred on the Tuesday, had happened on the Monday.
Did you see her at all on the Monday? As I was coming away, having waited about two hours, she came in after driving about in town.
Did you stay any time after she came in? No, I did not; I came away immediately.
Then both on the Monday and on the Tuesday you had seen her in the course of the morning? As I have stated, I saw her for a very short time, just as she came in on the Monday.
On the Tuesday, had you any conversation with her on the subject of these charges? I do not really recollect that I had; positively no pointed conversation at all.
Did Mrs. C. first mention this subject of the charges against h. r. h. the duke of York to you, or did you first mention it to her? I fancy in the first instance I asked her questions respecting them.
Do you recollect from whom you first derived your information on this subject? To say from whom is totally impossible. I could not, with propriety, state many of the names.
Have you received the information from Mr. Finnerty? I never received any information from Mr. Finnerty in my life upon this subject. Within these few days he spoke to me, but not any information respecting these charges. I did not know Mr. Finnerty, and as to his giving me any information, he never did. Within these few days, Mr. Finnerty spoke to me respecting Dr. Thynne; I believe the very day before Dr. T. was examined. I think it necessary to add that when major Hogan's pamphlet was published, on seeing the matter held out there, of information being ready to be given to any member of parliament who asked for it, I wrote a letter addressed to major Hogan, and, in consequence of that letter I had an interview with Mr. Finnerty, I put some questions to Mr. Finnerty, and I found, or at least, I had every re;ison to believe, that he had not any information at all upon the subject; and none did he give me. I never had any information whatever from Mr. Finnerty that led to any charge which I have made. I never, to my knowledge, saw Mr. Finnerty in my life till he came, in consequence of my letter to major Hogan, and then I had not any information from him, which led to the charges I have made.
( By Mr. Yorke.)
When was it that you saw Mr. Finnerty, in consequence of your letter to major Hogan; was it before or after the communication respecting Dr. T.? The communication respecting Dr. T. occurred in this lobby, or near it I believe the night Dr. T. gave his evidence. It was some months ago when I applied by letter, perhaps a month after the publication of major Hogan's pamphlet.
( By Mr. S. Bourne.)
Was the day, on which you now recollect to have seen Mrs. C. three times, the day before your last examination? I have before stated, that I was led to believe, that what occurred on the Tuesday had happened on the Monday; as soon as I got home from this house, I made some enquiries that set me to rights on that subject, and I took the earliest opportunity yesterday of communicating, in this house, my mistake to the right hon. gent. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and to the right hon. gent. the Speaker.
Are you certain that the day on which you now recollect to have seen Mrs. C. three times. was the day before your last examination? Yes, it was on Tuesday last.
Examination Of William Adam, Esq
WILLIAM ADAM, esq. a Member of the House, attending in his place, was examined, as follows:
( By the Attorney General.)
Have you the letters to which you referred on a former evening? I wish instate that I have a letter dated Sunday morning, June 19th, without any year; it is indorsed in my handwriting, June 19, 1808. I hare another letter dated Saturday morning, without any day of the month; I have not, I observe, put any indorsement of the day of the month or of the year upon that letter, but it will appear that that of the 19th of June 1808, was the first, and that dated Saturday was the second letter. When those letters were the subject of examination on a former evening, I wished to be possessed of them in order to have produced them. I had it not in my power to produce them then, not supposing that such a subject would be alluded to; I have now produced them.
The Following Letters Were Read
Sir; On the 11th of May 1806 you waited on me, by the desire of his royal highness the Duke of York, to state h. r. h.'s intention of allowing me an Annuity of 100 l. per annum. H. r. h., by his promise, is now indebted to me 500 l. I have written repeatedly, but of no avail. H. r. h 's conduct towards me has been so devoid of principle, feeling, and honour; and as his promises are not to be depended on, though even given by you; I have come to the determination of making my intentions known to you, for the consideration of h. r. h.; and thus it is:— I so licit h. r. h. to make the Annuity secure for my life, and to pay me the arrears immediately, as my necessities are very pressing (this he knows.)— If h. r. h. refuses to do this, I have no other mode for my immediate wants, than to publish every circumstance ever communicated to me by h. r. h. and every thing which has come under my knowledge during our intimacy, with all his letters; those things amount to something serious: He is mote within my power than may be imagined. Yet I wish for h. r. h.'s sake and my own, that he will make my request good, as I know full well I should suffer much in exposing him in my own mind; yet before I do any thing publicly, I will send to every one of h. r. h.'s family, a copy of what I mean to publish. Had h. r. h. only have been a little punctual, this request had never been made. One thing more: should h. r. h. throw up his protection to my boy (for I thank him much for the past) I hope he will place him on the foundation of the Charter-house or any other public school: the child is not accountable for my conduct. You will please then, Sir, to state this communication to the Duke of York; and on Wednesday I will send to your house, to know what may be h. r. h.'s intention; which you will please to signify by a letter to
"Your most obedient, humble servant,
"M. A. CLARKE."
"Sunday morning,
"June 19.
"His royal highness must feel, that his conduct on a late affair deserves all this from "me, and more."
"William Adam, esq.
"Bloomsbury-square."
"Private."
Indorsed
Mrs. Clarke,
19 June 1808.
"11, Holies-street,
"Cavendish-square.
"Sir: On Wednesday, finding there was not any answer to my letter, I am led to enquire, h. r. h. the D. of York, thinks proper not to make good his promise given by you, and that you encourage him in it.— I have employed myself since, in committing to paper every circumstance within my recollection during the intimacy of h. r. h. and myself. The fifty or sixty letters of h. r. h. will give weight and truth to the whole. On Tuesday I have promised to give these up, if I hear nothing further after this last notice; and when once given out of my own possession, it will be impossible to recall. It is to gentlemen, and not any publisher, they will be committed; and those gentlemen are just as obstinate as h. r. h., and more independant: they are acquaintances of your's; and to relieve my wants, in pique to others, will do what the Duke will not: however, he has it all within his own power, and so he may act as he pleases.
"I am, Sir, Your most obedient,
"M. A. CLARKE."
"Saturday morning.
"William Adam, esq.
"Bloomsbury-square."
Were those the two letters that the witness alluded to in her examination? They must have been the two letters that she alluded to, because I am confident I never received any other letter from the witness, unless that I received a very short note of a few lines; I rather think I did, but I am not possessed of that.
Did h. r. h. ever betray any apprehension to yon as to any thing which the witness could communicate respecting h. r. h.? Never at any time, or on any occasion.
Did you communicate the contents of these letters to b. r. h.? I did.
Did you show the letters themselves, or state the full contents of them? I shewed the letters themselves, and h. r. h. perused them in my presence.
After you had communicated those letters to h. r. h., and shewn them to him, did he betray the slightest apprehension of any thing the witness had in her power to communicate? Not the slightest.
Did h. r. h. deny that there was any tiling that could be published against him? I cannot be precise to the words which h. r. h. might have used; but I can say with confidence, that h. r. h. expressed himself as not at all apprehensive respecting any thing which could be published.— I wish to state, that the boy referred to in Mrs. C.'s letter is not any boy of the D. of York's.
then desired the proper persons to ascertain whether Mr. Few was in attendance. He stated that his object was to contradict that part of the evidence of Mrs. Clarke, in which she had said that she never represented herself as a widow, while she lived in Tavistock- place. He believed, he would prove that she had represented herself to the tradesmen in the neighourhood as a widow, and had obtained credit as such, and afterwards pleaded her coverture to avoid payment of her debts.
thought it quite needless to go any farther in the contradiction of Mrs. Clarke's evidence, as she had been sufficiently contradicted already, to prove that she was a person unworthy of belief. Indeed, what the house had heard from herself was almost, if not a together, enough for this purpose. He had suffered great pain in seeing a witness of such a description standing at the bar of that house, and examined with respect to the conduct of his royal highness. Mr. Knight, a most respectable gentleman, had already contradicted her, and he was in hopes that the house would see no further occasion for proceeding in examining into private amours. Almost every member in the house must be convinced that this was a character unworthy of credit, and it was excessively unpleasant to go on with any thing farther about her. It might be thought that he took a great deal upon himself, in advising the hon. and learned gent. as to the course he should pursue. But he considered it as a degradation to the house to proceed farther into the history of this infamous woman, for so he must call her.
stated his wish to explain a circumstance adverted to in one of Mrs. Clarke's letters, in order to prevent any misconception. The child alluded to in the letter was not a child of the duke's. It was also his duty to state, that this child had long been under the protection of the duke of York, and and was actually so at the time the letter was written, as the letter itself implied, which was nearly two years after the separation had taken place.
said, that he hoped every examination would be proceeded in that the case could possibly admit of, as it was of importance that this subject should be probed to the bottom. This, he was convinced, was the foulest conspiracy that ever was set on foot against the Son of the Crown, (a laugh) and indirectly against the Crown itself. He desired, that the evidence might proceed, and expressed his hopes, that an honourable man would he fully acquitted by his honourable countrymen.
observed, that the discussion was undoubtedly an unpleasant one, but though it was un- pleasant, yet the house could not shrink from it as it was brought before them. If he were called upon to give his opinion, even as the case stood, he could have no hesitation in saying, that the evidence of this witness was not to be relied upon. But though the hon. gent. (Mr. Beresford) had heard enough to make up his mind on the subject, could he be sure that the impression made on his mind was exactly that which was made on the mind of every one If, therefore, Mrs. Clarke had said, that she had never represented herself as a widow, and if it could be proved that she had so represented herself, and got credit upon that ground, it was certainly a very important circumstance, and still more so, if, upon payment of her debts being demanded, she had turned round and represented herself as a married woman. There was, besides, another fact, which it was very material to ascertain. His hon. and learned friend could prove, or imagined he could prove, that this woman, who had said that her husband was engaged in no business, did live with her husband who was a mason with three children. All this ought to be produced for the satisfaction of the house, and he hoped that it would have its full force, because the corpus delicti in this case depended entirely on her evidence. There was no doubt, that money had been given, but the question was, whether h. r. h. knew of that circumstance, and had been prevailed upon by her influence to grant promotions and exchanges in the army. This depended entirely upon her testimony, and therefore it was material to shew, in the most satisfactory manner, that her evidence was unworthy of the least credit.
said, that in the evidence which he adduced he always looked at the distinct point under consideration. The subject here was the conduct of h. r. h. the Duke of York, with regard to the army; and the particular question was, whether he had conducted himself corruptly in granting commissions with a view to put money in the pockets of those whom he wished to favour. That there were persons about him, as almost always happened in such cases, who represented themselves as possessed of influence; and that there were dupes credulous enough to believe them, and to waste their money, he had no doubt. No witness had attempted to fix any charge upon h. r. h. but Mrs. Clarke; and if the cause had been before a jury, the judge would immediately tell them, that it could not stand a moment upon the testimony of such a witness, even from her own admissions. But this course would not answer here, and it was his duty to attack her credit by other testimony. It was only to that end that he adduced the evidence which he was now about to call. It was not unimportant to prove that this woman had given false testimony. This was a painful duty to him; but it was a duty which ought to be undertaken by some member of the house, and he thought that his official situation called upon him to take a leading part in the investigation. He also stated, that it would be proved by col. Gordon, that the exchange had been ordered before Mrs. Clarke got the money.
Mr. Few and Mr. Munn were then called, but neither of them were in attendance.
observed, that this was a very unpleasant duty; but it was the duty of the house to do justice by the country as well as by the duke of York. He thought gentlemen ought to remain from discussing the merits of the case till the evidence was printed and laid before them. Before they called their witnesses, they ought to allow the hon. gent. to proceed with his charges, and finish them.
observed, that after the hon. gent. had finished this charge, it was understood that the answer was to be given, and the house had before acted upon that principle, by calling col. Gordon, Mr. Adam, and the hon. gent. himself who had brought forward the charges. The witnesses now called upon were summoned, not with a view to the whole of the charges, but to give their testimony upon that which was now closed.
then desired Ludo-wick Orramin to be called. Mrs. Clarke, he observed, had said that she was sure the duke of York knew she got the 200l. because his servant had been sent by him to get it changed. Now he would shew that only one servant belonging to the duke of York ever attended him at Gloucester-place, and he had never gone out to get a note changed.
Examination Of Ludowick Orramin
( By the Attorney General.)
In whose service are you? H r. h.'s the D. of Y.'s.
How long have you been in h. r. h.'s service? Eighteen years next September.
Have you been constantly in h. r. h.'s service during that period? Yes.
Do you remember when h. r. h. used to visit Mrs. C, in Gloucester Place? Yes.
Did any, and which of h. r. h.'s servants, ever use to attend h. r. h. there? None but myself.
In what capacity do yon serve h. r. h.? As footman.
At what time in the day did you use to go to h. r. h.? Sometimes at eight o'clock in the morning. I never went to h. r. h. in the day.
For what purpose did you use to go to him? To take his clothes.
Did you ever see Mrs. C. there? Once.
During how long a time were you in the habit of going to h. r. h. at Gloucester-place? From 1804 to 1806.
Are you sure that no other of h. r. h.'s servants, hut yourself, went to him there?. Yes.
Were you there very frequently during that time? Yes.
What was the single occasion on which you saw Mrs. C.? A prompt message I received to take a favourite dog of h. r. h.'s for Mrs. C. to see.
Was his highness there at that time? No.
Are you sure that you never saw Mrs. C at any other time but that at Gloucester-place? Not at Gloucester-place.
Were you ever directed, either by Mrs. C. or by h. r. h., to carry out from Gloucester-place a bank note to be changed? No.
Did you ever carry out a bank note from Gloucester-place to be changed? No.
Are you quite certain of that fact? Yes.
( By Mr. Wardle.)
Upon what ground do you assert, that no other servant of the D. of Y.'s ever went to Gloucester-place? Because I had an order from h. r. h., that I was to bring those things, and no other servant; and no other dared to do it.
Do you assert, from your own knowledge, that no other servant of the D. of Y.'s ever went to Gloucester-place? Yes.
Can you speak to your own knowledge, that no other servant, except yourself, ever took a letter from the D. of Y. to Gloucester-place to Mrs. C.? None but me.
How many men-servants were there in Gloucester-place? I do not know.
State, as nearly as you can, how many man-servants there were there? There were some-times two in general. I never saw more than two livery servants.
How many servants out of livery? One.
What was he? Butler.
Was there no other servant out of lively? No.
Was there a man-cook? I do not know that ever there was.
How often were you in the habits of carrying letters to Gloucester-place? Very seldom.
No other servant of the Duke's ever did carry them, to your knowledge? No, not to my knowledge.
Do you know of any other person who took those letters? No. I do not.
Did you Carry any letters from the Duke, that were sent from the Horse-Guards to Gloucester-place? Yes, some I did.
A great many? No.
You stated that you never saw Mrs. C. but once at Gloucester-place in your life? No, I never did.
To whom did you deliver these letters which you took? Mostly to the house-keeper.
What was her name? Favorite.
What was the butler's name? I do not know; I believe, to the best of my recollection, it was Pierce, one of them; the name of the last I do not know.
( By sir Francis Burdett.)
Did you ever see Mrs. C. any where else but at Gloucester-place? Twice.
Where? I met her opposite Somerset-house.
Walking in the Street? Walking in the street.
Three times only have you seen Mrs. C. in your life? Only three thins.
Have you bad any intercourse with any one, previous to your coining to this bar, respecting the evidence you have given this night? H. r. h. asked me if I ever did receive a note from him or Mrs. C.
Had you bad any intercourse with any other person besides h. r. h. previous to your giving your testimony this night? I was asked the same question by Mr. Adam.
Had you any intercourse of the same kind with any other person? A Mr. Wilkinson, and Mr. Lowten.
Who is Mr. Wilkinson? A gentleman with Mr. Lowten.
Have you had any other intercourse with any other person, respecting the testimony you were to give at this bar?No.
( By the Attorney General.)
Were the servants, you speak of as being at Gloucester-place, Mrs. C.'s servants? To the best of my knowledge they were.
Are you a foreigner? Yes.
Do you know that they were not the D. of Y.'s servants? To the best of my recollection, I believe they were not the D. of Y.'s servants.
Were the directions from the D. of Y. to you, that no one hut yourself should go to h r. h., at Gloucester-place? I had h. r. h.'s instructions, that nobody, if a letter came, was to go with it but myself.
When h. r. h. asked you, whether you had ever carried a bank note to change from Gloucester-place, what answer did you give him? I told him, I certainly did not recollect that ever I carried any note whatever to be changed.
Can you now lake upon yourself, upon recollection, to state that you never did? Yes, I can.
Did yon give the same answer to Mr. Lowten, and to the other persons who asked you? I did.
( By Mr. Wardle.)
Are you certain that the D. of Y. never went in his carriage to Gloucester-place? He certainly never did.
Nor on horseback? As far as I know, he never did.
Repeat as nearly as you can, every thing that passed between Mr. Adam, Mr. Lowten, Mr. Wilkinson, and yourself, upon this subject.—Mr. Adam asked me if I was in the habit of going to h r. h.'s occasionally, and I answered yes; and then Mr. Adam asked me if ever recollected receiving a note either from Mr. C. or h. r. h; I said I never did; upon which Mr. Adam sent mo to Mr. Lowten and Mr. Wilkinson. Mr. Wilkinson asked me my name again, and how long I had been with h. r. h., and then asked me concerning the se notes, if I ever changed any note for Mrs. C. or h. r. h., of tint description, there; I an-wered no. That is as nearly as lean recollect what passed.
Has the Duke no valet de chambre that ever went to him at Gloucester-place, either at night or in the morning? To my recollection, h. r. h. had no valet that ever went to Gloucester-place. [The witness was directed to withdraw.]
said, as the other witnesses he had intended to call were not at hand, he would take an opportunity of calling them some other time.
said, that he hoped there would be no objection to his calling one or two witnesses also, in consequence of what had passed since he submitted his case.
replied, there could be no objection, and wished the hon. gent. to give in their names.
said, that as the gentlemen opposite did not think it necessary to give in beforehand the names of their witnesses, he would certainly avail himself of the same privilege he possessed, and would not give in the names of his witnesses. He wished to put a few questions to Mr. Adam, as every thing he said in the house on this subject had great weight, from his having declared he served the Duke of York gratuitously.
WILLIAM ADAM, Esq. was further examined as follows:
( By Mr. Wardle.)
Having stated that you have served h. r. h. the D. of Y. gratuitously may I be allowed to ask, have you a son in the army? I have, he is lieut.-col. of the 21st regiment of foot.
At what age was he made lieut.-col.? I will answer that question. But as I have received a letter which I will presently read to the house, they will see the necessity of my answering that question by stating tire introduction of that person, and the progress he made in the army. Gen. sir C. Stewart, who was a friend of my early life, asked me if any of my five sons Had a disposition or inclination for the army. I told him that there was one of them, then fourteen or fifteen years old, who I thought had a strong tendency that way. He said, you know my friendship for you, and rules of the service permit my making him an ensign. He gave him the commission of ensign; his regiment was in Canada, and the young person never joined it, but was sent by me immediately to Woolwich, to receive a military education regularly; and as I am asked a question of this sort, and know its tendency, from the letter I have in my pocket, I do not think it unbecoming in me to state, of so near and so dear a relation, that he distinguished himself extremely in his progress at Woolwich. He received a second commission of lieutenant from gen. sir C. Stewart, equally gratuitously with my services to the D. of Y. When sir Ralph Abercrombie, whom I likewise had the honour to call my intimate friend, was about to go out to the Helder, he went under him at the age of sixteen as a volunteer. The house will pardon me, for it is impossible for me not to feel upon this subject; I must state his merits. That youth landed in a hot fire, and he behaved so as to receive the thanks of every body around him; be remained actively engaged in every engagement during that expedition; he had the command of such a subdivision of men as a lieutenant commands, and they were of those troops that were raised as volunteers from the militia; they were raw to service, they required much management, and yet he contrived to conduct them well: when he returned to this country, he received from his royal highness the D. of Y., without any solicitation whatever on my part, so help me God, a commission in his own regiment, the Coldstream, having paved the way to make him a lieutenant in his own regiment, by giving him a commission in one of the regiments that was raised just after the affair of the Helder. I do not recollect the particular circumstances, but it will be easy to get them at the war-office, if that is necessary. He remained in the Coldstream regiment at home until the expedition to Egypt, when he went again under sir Ralph Abercrombie, where he was accompanied by his friend at Woolwich, who had made a similar progress with himself, the son of sir John Warren, who was killed by his side. He was one of those who landed with the guards in the illustrious landing commanded by sir Ralph Abercrombie, arid covered by lord Keith. I have the happiness to say, that he distinguished himself equally upon that occasion. When he returned home, the D. of Y. again gratuitously transferred him to his own regiment with the rank of major; and he rose, as a matter of course, at the age, I believe, of not quite twenty-one, to the rank of lieutenant-colonel in the second battalion of his own regiment. When colonel Wilson went abroad with general Maitland, colonel Wilson intimated to me, that it would vacate his lieutenant-colonelcy; and the only time I ever mentioned his name to the Duke of York was to mention that fact, and to leave if to his royal highness to do as he thought fit; his royal highness put him in the first battalion; and I have the happiness to think, that he has been a constant credit to his country, and has commanded as well, from the moment, he was appointed lieutenant-colonel, as any one in the service; and I desire general officers in the service to speak to that. If general Moore were alive he could do it. I now beg leave to read this letter, which I should have considered a mere trifle, if it were not for this question, and put it into my pocket, and probably into the fire: it is written in red ink.
Mr Adam Read An Anonymous Letter
"To W. Adam, Esq.
Sir,— Your character was once respectable —that is now over; your shifting of sides in the house, and your interference in the Duke of York's lechery, would have dubbed any other man with the epithet of Pimp. By your perpetual subserviency to the royal interests, one of your sons has obtained a lieutenant- colonelcy, and the other a ship—(I wish I was questioned as to that appointment—) Bravo—go on—see if you can persuade any man that you are not acting for profit, when your family is thus provided for. What! the Duke's conduct is not to be canvassed—no, nor his profligacy to his w— because he is the second in the kingdom, and a prince for- sooth. Decide as you will, the public can form their judgment; nor will a heavy but hened people be persuaded, by the vote of a bear garden, that black is white. Be honest; change your principles with the co- lour of your hair; let this rubrick prove to you typical of my feeling, blushing as I am at your misconduct: and as for the house, it may discuss the subject; but on its decision depends its own damnation or salvation.
Having given the answer which I have to the honourable gentleman, I am in the judgment of the house, whether I have not a right to say, that I have gratuitously served the Duke of York.
Upon the question being asked, Mr. Adam said the letter was without a signature.
observed, that it was unworthy the character of an individual to pay attention to anonymous letters, and condemned Mr. Adam for having brought this before the House.
replied, that lie felt it incumbent on him to do so from its singular coincidence with the question that had been put to him. It was written to deter him from doing his duty, and to libel the house of commons, both of which were beyond the power of any such attempts. He had to protect his own and his family's honour, which he would do in the manner that seemed best to himself, without minding any one's opinion.
said, there was no occasion for rough language, particularly us he had gone along with the hon. gent. in all his feelings as a man and a father. He had only expressed his disapprobation of having such letters brought into the minutes of the House,.
defended the reading of the letter in warm terms, and amid loud cries of Order !order !He said, the house did not do their duty, and ought to be whipped, if they did not offer a reward of 500l. or 1,000l. for its author (Order !Order !) "Why am I out of order? Where am I out of order? If you are such poor creatures"— (Here the hon. genu's voice was drowned amid the general clamour, and he sat down exclaiming, "Well! well! well!)
deprecated all personal aspersions upon members of that house, and conceived, that if a threatening letter from an anonymous person was criminal, a threatening manner to that house was not less culpable.
said, that he had no idea of proposing to insert the letter in the Minutes of the Committee, until some member across the table whispered the propriety of doing so. He however contended and must insist, that the evidence whit h he had felt it his duty to give in answer to the interrogatory of the hon. member, should continue to constitute a part of the proceedings.
conceived, that through some error the question put to his hon. friend (Mr. Adam) was taken down incorrectly by the note taker The question, as taken by the note taker, was simply, whether Mr. Adam had a son a lieut.-col. in the army. Whereas the actual question was. that Mr. Adam having stated, that he acted for the Commander in Chief gratuitously, he (Mr. Wardle) wished to know whether his learned friend had not a son in the army. Meaning by the import and spirit of his interrogatory to convey, that the services of his learned friend were remunerated by the promotion of his son.— The interrogatory was, with Mr. Wardle's admission, corrected according to the wish expressed by Mr. Sheridan.
Case of Captain Maling.
considered it his duty, before he submitted his Charge against the Commander in Chief in the promotion of capt. Maling, to positively state, that he believed that gentleman as proper an officer as any of his rank in the service. Every inquiry he had made went to prove that his conduct was strictly honourable. It would appear from the Gazette, that capt. Maling was appointed to his ensigncy in Nov. 1805; that he was promoted to his lieutenancy in the same month of the year.1806; and obtained a company on the 5th of Sept. 1808. His majesty's regulations had prescribed, that every officer should continue for a limited time in his subaltern situation. But his complaint in this case was, that capt. Maling was promoted over the heads of officers, many years his seniors in the army, and who were many of them lieutenants long before he received his appointment to an ensigncy. This was a most cruel system; and, in the present instance, he conceived it particularly aggravated, inasmuch as the promotion of capt. Maling was throughout gratuitous, to the injury of old subalterns who had applied to purchase companies at the re-of time, but also recommended by wounds received in the cause of their sovereign and country. It was undeniable that such a system was vitally injurious to the best interests of the country, and, of course, to prevent its recurrence, was of material importance. If any improper conception of the nature of this charge had gone a broad, he felt extreme regret, but it was his duty to take advantage of subsequent opportunities in order to explain himself. His charge was, that capt. Maling had, in the short space of two years and three months received his three commissions, and was appointed to a company over the heads of many subalterns who had made application to the Commander in Chief for leave to purchase, and who were old ensigns and lieutenants long before that gentleman left Mr. Greenwood's office. He did, he believed, state on the former night that capt. Maling continued to fulfil his duty to Mr. Greenwood, some months after his appointment to an ensigncy.
was anxious to ascertain the distinct charge on which the hon. member wished then to proceed. The gravamen of the case, when originally introduced by the hon. gent., was, according to his impression, that capt. Maling was unduly promoted without the claim of one hour's service. The complexion which it that night assumed was, that his promotion was granted over the heads of many senior and meritorious officers. If such had been the ground on which the original statement was introduced, he believed the house would pause before it admitted of a question, whose discussion embraced the comparative merit of many officers in the service. Indeed, if such an option was not entrusted to the Commander in Chief, he was at a loss to understand what was the discretion of such a situation. But at all events, there was no very high and distinguished favour conferred by a promotion in the African regiment, a corps principally composed of convicts and deserters.
thought it the duty of any member in bringing such serious charges previously to ascertain the facts on which he intended to proceed. He had to complain that this-was not the only instance in which the hon. member had shewn himself deficient in the necessary information. The instance in the case of col. French was mote aggravated; that officer the hon. member had never seen, and though his evidence was most material, he was now out of the reach cither of him or of that house. It was cruelty to attack persons so distinguished in rank and office, on points where it was impossible to bring the proofs forward which were necessary to substantiate the accusation.
had attended most accurately to the hon. gent.'s original statement, which was that capt. Maling had not been one hour in the service, and that he was still to he found at Mr. Greenwood's desk. If the hon. gent, had stated his charge on a former night, as he had just done, he should have felt it his duty to move, that the house should reject the consideration of it, as a matter in which the judgment and discretion of the Commander in Chief ought freely to be exercised.
declared, that he could not see how the house could enter upon any inquiry at all into the business, as now stated by the hon. gent. He perfectly agreed with the hon. gent. who had immediately preceded him, in the nature of the hon. gent.'s original accusation, but he now found that the charge preferred by the hon. gent. amounted simply to this, that at the time when capt. Mating was promoted, there were subalterns in the army of a longer standing than himself. Now, he conceived, that it was an unquestionable prerogative of his majesty to appoint such persons to be officers in his army as he pleased, and that the house of commons had no power over that prerogative. If the regulation of a certain term of service were adhered to, the house had no right to interfere, and could not interfere without intrenching on the prerogative of the crown.
wished the Inquiry to be proceeded with. The committee would recollect that they had a charge from the house to investigate the conduct of h. r. h. the Commander in Chief. The public impression against capt. Maling, and against the Commander in Chief, was a gross injustice therefore to both, and an injustice to the country. The charge ought to be negatived in evidence, and the committee must not be satisfied with the bare contradiction of it by the hon. accuser himself.
wished to acquiesce in the general wishes of the committee, either to withdraw or to proceed with the charge. It was possible that in the warmth of discussion he might have stated in this charge something stronger than the case admitted. But on referring to his own notes he had no idea to make any other impression than that which he himself felt on the rapid promotion of capt. Maling over deserving officers, his seniors in the army. He was certain that he did never assert that that officer was promoted without, having ever served, because he well recollected that he alluded to his having been a pay-master in Ireland.
observed, that the difference was material. The hon. gent. had said on a recent evening, that capt. Maling was still to be found at Mr. Greenwood's desk. Did he mean to deny this, or, not denying it, did he mean to relinquish that part of his charge?
said, that what he intended to state was, that after the appointment of Mr. Maling to an ensigncy, he believed he was to be found at Mr. Greenwood's desk.
thought the hon. gent. was bound to establish all the statements which he had made in the opening of the business,
observed, that in such a grave proceeding as the present, it was peculiarly incumbent on the accuser to consider well before he preferred his accusation. If the doctrine held forth by the hon. gent., that on a subject like the present, he had a right on one day to correct the misconceptions of another, were accepted, not a single individual in the house or the country would be safe. Every man's reputation might be wantonly injured in the public esteem, and an impression might be made on his char cter, which could never afterwards be effaced.
COLONEL GORDON was called in, and examined, as follows:
( By Mr. Wardle.)
What were the merits and services that obtained capt. Maling his rapid promotion, and the gift of his three commissions? I will state them to the house. The first recommendation for the ensign's commission of Mr. Muling I have how in my hand. [Colonel Gordon read the following letter:]
London, 20th Nov. 1805.
C. L. agreed to.
"Sir: As I am very anxious to have the "regiment under my command complete, I took the liberty of submitting "to his royal highness the names of en- oct. 1894: Nov. 1801. "signs Budd and Warren, (the senior of their rank and of the year 1804) for two of the vacant lieutenancies, which h. r. h. was graciously pleased to accede to; I should humbly beg leave to recommend in their succession Murphy and John Maling, gent They are both very promising young men, and of the full age prescribed by his majesty's regulations.
"I have the honour to he, &c.
"J. DOYlK, Lt. General,
"Colonels87 "
"Lt. Colonel Gordon,
"&c. &c. &c.
"Horse Guards."
On the formation of the garrison battalions in Nov. 1806, when the men for limited service were taken out of the body of the army, and placed into separate battalions, it became necessary, of course, to officer those battalions. Ensign Maling, then with the 87th regiment, was, with four other ensigns, selected tor the fourth garrison battalion, then in Guernsey— in the same place in which he was serving. Ensign Maling was the senior of three of those ensigns, and he was of that standing in the army which entitled him, not only to promotion in that corps, but into almost any other corps in his majesty's service. That will account for his promotion to a lieutenancy. Lieut. Maling joined the garrison battalion to which he was appointed, and remained with it a considerable period. In August 1807, this letter was written to me.
Colonel Gordon Read The Following Letter:
"August 17th 1807.
"Cox & Greenwood."
Sir: I have to beg you would be pleased to lay before h. r. h. the Commander in Chief, my request, that capt. Charles Doyle, of the first garrison battalion, may he transferred to the 87th regiment, in which corps there is a vacant company, vice Edwards cashiered.—I take the liberty to enclose a request on the part of lieut. Maling of the fourth garrison battalion.
"I have the honour, Sir, &c.
"C. W. DOYLE,
"L Colonel 87th,
"Commanding 2d Bait"
"To L Col. Gordon,
"&c. &c. &c."
"Lieut. Maling of the fourth garrison battalion humbly requests to be removed "back into the 87ih, there being vacancies in that corps, and the ensigns who were senior to him, are all promoted."
"August 17th, 1807."
— Consequently he could not be an aid-de-camp. The statement of the thing was considered as sufficient; the regiment being ordered for embarkation, the Commander in Chief would not permit it, nor could the officer, consistently with his own honour, accept it. The next that we heard of lieut. Maling, now capt. Maling, was on the augmentation of the royal African corps from four companies to six companies. In the month of last September it became necessary for the Commander in Chief to recommend to his majesty two officers to till those vacant companies. Lieut. Maling having been recommended to the notice of the Commander in Chief, from the paper now before the house, he was selected for one of those vacant companies: hut before he was so selected, I spoke to his brother, and asked him if he could answer, that if his brother, lieut. Maling, was appointed to a company in the African corps, that he would join that corps, and go with them instantly to Goree; the brother assured me that he would answer for his doing so; in consequence of which I submitted his name to the Commander in Chief for one of those vacant companies, to which he was accordingly appointed. After he was appointed, I sent for capt. Maling, and repeated to him, as nearly as I can recollect, the very words I repeated to his brother, He expressed himself much honoured in the appointment, much flattered with my notice; and that he was in readiness to set off instantly to the army depot, to which place I believe he did set off Many of the African corps were at that time on board a prison-ship. When this prison-ship became too crowded to hold all the men that it was necessary to put into it, a detachment was sent to Castle Cornet, in the island of Guernsey, the only place of security to which men of that description could be sent; capt. Mating went with it: and the next that I heard of capt. Mating was this letter, two months and a half after he had been appointed:
Col Gordon Delivered In The Following Letter:
"Guernsey, 25 July 1808."
"Sir: The Secretary at War having notified "to me, that I am to be allowed one "aid-de-camp from the 25lh April, I beg "you may submit to h. r. h. the Commander in Chief my request to be permitted to recommend lieut Mating, of "the 87th regt for that situation.
"I have the honour to be, Sec.
"JOHN PRASES,
"The Adjutant General "M. G."
"of the Forces,
"&c. &c. &c."
(Copy.)
"Horse-Guards, 30th July 1808."
"Sir: I have the honour to acknowledge "the receipt of your letter of the 25th "inst. and to acquaint you, that the 2d "battalion of 87th regiment, to which "lieut. Mating belongs, has been ordered "to be held in readiness for immediate "embarkation for foreign service.
"I have, &c. (Signed)
"HARRY CALVERT,
"M. Gen. J. Fraser, &c. &c. "A. G."
"Guernsey."
"Guernsey, 20th Dec. 1808."
"Sir: I beg leave to request permission of h. r. h. the Commander in Chief, to employ as my aid-de-camp, capt. John "Mating, of the royal African corps, "who is at present stationed in this "island with part of that corps.
"I have, &c.
"JOHN FRASER,
The Adjutant General "M. G."
"of the forces."
Indorsed: "Dec. 27.
"There was a very large proportion of these "men at the depôt, on board the prison-ships, "and in other places of confinement; and of "these, it was reported that some were men of "less bud conduct than others, and might be use-"fully employed as soldiers, hut that it was "hard to keep time as prisoners for such "a length of time as might elapse before they "could possibly embark for Goree. The only "place for them is Castle Cornet, in Guernsey, where their predecessors were, and "where these men may be trained and formed "prior to embarkation for Africa.
"Capt. Maling is a good young man, and "I should imagine, so long as the CORPS REMAINS IN GUERNSEY, there could not be "any objection.—Maj. Chisholm left town "yesterday, for Guernsey."
(Copy.)
"Horse-Guards, 28th Dec. 1808."
"Sir: I have had the honour to lay before the Commander in Chief, your "letter of the 20th instant; and am directed to acquaint you that h. r. h. approves of capt. John Mating, of the "royal African corps, being employed as "your aid-de-camp, upon the staff of "Guernsey, so long as a detachment of "that corps remains in Guernsey.
"I have; &c.
"H. CALVERT,
"Mr - Gen1 Eraser, &c. &c. "A. G."
"Guernsey."
Q. I ask the witness, whether subalterns of much stronger claims to promotion than those of Mating, and of many years longer service, are not at this time in the army?—Here
interfered, and submitted, that in his judgment this question was quite irregular. If the object before the committee was that of going to constitute some legislative regulations in the army, such an interrogatory would be right enough; but when gentlemen would advert to the nature of the case before them he thought they never could entertain such a question. The point of the charge against the Commander-in-Chief was, that in this transaction there was corruption: without anticipating how they would decide, he might fairly assume that no such thing was made out; arid as on all hands it would be granted that the Commander-in-Chief had a discretionary power in such cases, which this question went to controul, he thought it ought not to be put.
was of opinion that the question might be modified or withdrawn altogether, and this last he understood the hon. colonel had no objection to. A conversation then ensued between. Mr. Croker, lord Folkestone, Mr. Whitbread, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Tierney, sir Arthur Wellesley, the Secretary at War, Mr. Canning, and col. Barry, as to modifying or withdrawing it, when, on the suggestion of Mr. Canning, the words "strong claims to promotions," were omitted; and after some further observations from Mr. Barham, Mr. D. Brown, Mr. Lyttleton, and Mr. Adam,
said he was ready to withdraw the question, or to put it in any shape which the committee would suggest. It was his intention to move for a list of all officers, who, from the year 1805 to 1808, had made applications of a like nature together with a list of the respective certificates of each as to their merits and their services.—The question was then put in its modified shape,
( By Mr. Wardle.)
Is it within your knowledge that there are several subalterns now in the army who have served longer than capt. Mating? Unquestionably, there are a very considerable number. May I explain to the house: it is the invariable practice of the army, at least it has been the invariable practice of the present Commander in Chief, without one single exception, that no junior officer can be promoted over the bead of his senior, I mean in the regiment into which he is so promoted; but it never has been the practice of the army, that the promotion goes in a regular routine of seniority through the whole army, I never heard of such a practice. I beg further to explain: I conceive it my particular duty to take care, and report to the Commander in Chief, that any officer whose name is submitted to h. r. h. is a fit and proper person, duly qualified in all respects as to character, as to points of service, and as to his majesty's regulations, for the service into which he is so recommended; that capt. Muling is so, I did certainly conceive; and I do now feel, that he is not only an honour to the corps in which he is placed, but I do firmly believe that he is as promising ail officer as any in the army, and as likely to do honour to his country.
Do you mean that no officer is promoted over the head of another who is his senior; do you mean, that no officer is taken out of one regiment and put into another, over the head of an officer of older rank than himself, who was ready to purchase in that regiment? I mean distinctly this: if there should be a vacant company, for instance in the 5th regiment of foot, that any lieutenant that the Commander in Chief recommends for that purpose, must be senior to all the lieutenants of the 5th.
Then a major of one regiment could not be put as lieut.-col. into another, over the head of a major in that regiment of senior date and rank to himself? Most undoubtedly not.
Was not col. Pigot, of a dragoon regiment, promoted over the head of a senior major who then was in that regiment? I beg to explain, that when I say this never takes place, it is made a special instruction from the Commander in Chief to every general officer commanding that he invariably pursues the practice I have pointed out, except in such cases where he can give strong and sufficient reasons to the contrary. With respect to col. Pigot, I cannot venture to take upon myself to speak so decidedly from memory; but I believe the hon. member means cob Pigot of the 21st dragoons, now at the Cape; what the special circum Stances of his appointment were, I do not now recollect; but whatever they were, they were on the special recommendation of the lieut. gen., and colonel of the regiment, lieut. gen. Tarleton, that I do recollect.
Do you recollect any unpleasant occurrence happening in consequence of that appointment? I cannot say that I do.
Can you from your own knowledge say, whether, at the time of lieut. Muling being promoted to a company, any recommendations for purchase from the commanding officers of regiments, of subalterns of senior date to lieut. Mating, were before the Commander in Chief? Certainly, a great many, but this vacancy was not by purchase.
Were there any recommendations of senior subalterns for promotion without, purchase before the Commander in Chief? It is very likely that there were.
Can you speak positively to that fact? I think I can.
Do you think that they were to any great number? The army is so very extensive, I cannot have any hesitation in saying that they must have been to a very great number.
Is it not a regulation, that no officer shall purchase a company, unless he has been two years a subaltern? It is a regulation of the army, his majesty's regulation, that no subaltern can he promoted to a company, either by purchase or without, under a service of two years.
Do you command the royal African corps? I do.
( By Mr. Wortley.)
State what has been the length and nature of your services in the army? I have served his majesty very nearly for 26 years; for the last 24 of which I have been employed in every part of the world (the East Indies excepted) where his majesty's troops have been stationed, and with very little intermission. I have been four times to the West Indies, and have been there nearly six years; I have been twice to America; I have been nil over the Mediterranean; I have commanded a regiment in America; I have commanded a regiment in the West Indies. It has been my fortune, very undeservedly perhaps, to have a sword voted for my services; to have been repeatedly thanked by general officers under whom I have been placed. It is perhaps a singular part of my service, that I have not only served in every situation in the army, from an ensign up to my present rank, that a gentleman could serve in, but I have also served in every situation of the Staff of the army, without one single exception. Of this service, 12 years I was a subaltern, nine of that, in constant regimental duty, live years I think, as major; two or three years as lieut.-col. with, my regiment, the greatest part of that time abroad.
Were not the regulations for the promotion of the army, which you have mentioned, set on foot originally by the Duke of York? They certainly were, when the Duke of York became Commander in Chief of the army. Prior to his being appointed Commander in Chief of the army, an officer who had money might purchase up to the rank of lieut.-col. in three weeks or a mouth, as fast as his separate appointments could be passed through each separate Gazette.
(By the Attorney Central.)
Does the rule that you have stated, of not promoting an-officer into another regiment where there are officers senior to him of the same rank that he filled in the regiment from which he comes, apply to appointments with or without purchase?. It applies to both; that is, no junior officer can be permitted to purchase over the head of a senior officer, provided that senior officer is also willing to purchase, I always mean; or unless there are special reasons to the contrary; something relating to the misconduct of the person.
Can you take upon yourself to say, that there has been no instance of an officer being promoted into another regiment, where if it is not a case of purchase, there is an unexceptionable senior officer in the same rank; and where it is a case of purchase, where there is an unexceptionable officer, able and willing to purchase? I have already said, that no junior officer can he promoted over the head of a senior officer in the same regiment, and that the same rule applies to purchase; that is, that no junior officer can purchase over the head of a senior officer into a regiment where a senior officer is willing to purchase; that I never knew that rule deviated from, except in some particular case or cases, upon which a special explanation could be given.
Upon reference to any paper since you were last examined here, have you any means of accounting for the Exchange of lieut. col. Knight and lieut. col. Brooke not being in the Gazette till the Tuesday? I stated to the house, I believe, in my evidence the last lime I had the honour to give it in this House that I received the Duke's pleasure, his final pleasure, upon the subject of this Exchange, on the 23d of July, which date was upon the original paper now on the table of the house. Since that time I have obtained possession of the original paper which was submitted to his Majesty; I now hold that paper in my hand. The exchange was final with the Commander in Chief on the 23d of July, the Tuesday; on Wednesday the 24th it was made out to be sent to the King, but not in time to go by the mail of that day. I beg to inform the House, that the mail passes through the archway of the Horse-Guards exactly at three o'clock; the King, being at Weymouth on Thursday the 25th, I sent this paper to his Majesty by the mail. Here is his majesty's signature to it…."Wey-mouth, July the 26th 1805; Commissions agreeably to the above list, to be prepared for my signature."…This paper was returned to me on the following day, on Saturday but too late for the Gazette; it was therefore gazetted on the next Gazette day. I believe I stated to the house, that when I talk of the next Gazette, I mean the next Gazette in which military promotions are announced; and it will be found that no military promotions were announced in the Gazette on Saturday. I have said that the Commander in Chief had decided upon this exchange on the 23d of July; on reference to my correspondence for the month of July, I find these papers: this is an application to the Commander in Chief (through me) from an hon. member of this house, on behalf of his brother, to exchange into the cavalry, with lieut. col. Knight.
Col Gordon Read And Delivered In A Letter From Mr Huskisson, Dated Treasury Chambers, 22D Of July 1805
Col. Gordon. My answer is on the 23d of July, the day I mentioned before.
Col Gordon Read And Delivered In The Answer, Dated The 28D Of July 1805
(Copy.)
"Treasury Chambers 22d July, 1805."
"My dear Sir; The condescension I experienced lately from h. r. h. in allowing my "brother to purchase a Majority in the 8th "foot, is not unknown to you, to whose "friendly assistance I was much indebted on "the occasion. You will probably recollect "that at the time I mentioned to you the probability that my brother would feel anxious "for an opportunity of getting back into the "Cavalry, both on account of his never having "served in the Infantry, and from the circumstance of his health having suffered so much "whilst serving with the 25th light dragoons in "the East Indies, that he is strongly advised "against returning, at least for some years, to a "hot climate. Under these circumstances, I "cannot help requesting, if it should not appear "too much presumption on my part, that you "would submit to h. r. h. my humble request, "that he would, afford my brother an opportunity of exchanging into the Cavalry. Feeling "the great obligation I am already under to h. r. h., I should not venture again to trespass "so soon on his indulgence, if I had not understood that one of the Majors of the 5th "dragoon guards had signified a wish to exchange into the Infantry, and that it might "be a long time before any other opportunity "might occur of bringing my brother back into "that service, to which, for the reasons I have "now troubled you with, lie is so anxious to "be restored. I remain, &c. (Signed)
"W. HUSKISSON."
"Lt. col. Gordon."
(Copy)
"Horse-Guards, 23rd July 1805."
"My dear Sir,
"I have not failed to lay your request, in "behalf of your brother, before the Duke of "York; and am commanded to acquaint you "that h. r. h. will he glad of any invaluable "opportunity, by which he can lie enabled to "accede to it. The exchange with brevet "lieut. col. Knight, 5th Dragoon Guards, has "already been determined upon in favour of "brevet, lieut.-col. Brooke, whose services h.r. h. was of opinion could not but be favorably considered; but if your brother can find "any major in the cavalry who is disposed to "exchange to the infantry of the line, the Commander in Chief will have much pleasure in "recommending the same to his Majesty.
"Yours very faithfully,
"W. Huskisson, Esq. (Signed)
&c. &c. &c." "J. W. GORDON."
State what are the regulations that have been established by the Duke of York with regard to regimental promotions, having regard to the period of service in each rank.—The regulations were briefly these; an officer must serve as a subaltern two years before he can be a captain, and be must have served six years before he can be a field officer. I never knew any instance of those rules having been broken through, always, as in merchants accounts, saying errors excepted.
( By Colonel Wood.)
How many hours in every day does the Commander in Chief devote to the duties of his officer The Commander in Chief commands my attendance upon him every morning a little after ten; and he very rarely gives up business until past seven in the evening, there or thereabouts, very often past eight.
Is not h. r. h. particularly punctual in taking care that the business of his office is conducted in such a manner, that reference may always be had to the cause of any promotion? Most undoubtedly he is.
Has not h. r. h. taken, in the instances where commissions are permitted to be sold, particular precautions to confine those commissions to the regulated price only? He certainly has. I believe it will be necessary for me to trouble the House still further upon this: in the year 1804, when a great augmentation was added to the army of fifty battalions, I did understand that very great abuses were practised with respect to the purchase and sale of commissions; that people endeavoured to obtain commissions unduly, that they endeavoured to impose upon the officers of the army in taking money under the pretence of obtaining commissions, and that this went to a very great extent. I did represent this in the strongest manner to the Commander in Chief, who felt it very sensibly, and expressed the strongest indignation at it, and commanded me to frame an instrument, a copy of which I now hold in my hand, and which was circulated to all the corps of the army. With the permission of the house I will read it.
Colonel Gordon Read The Following Letter:
(Copy.)
"Circular to Army Agents.
Horse-Guards, Sept. 28, 1804."
"Gentlemen,
"His r. h. the Commander in Chief having "the strongest reason to believe (from the advertisements that have frequently appeared "in the public papers) that an extensive correspondence is carried on with the officers of the "army by persons styling themselves army "brokers, to induce them to enter into pecuniary engagements for the purpose of obtaining commissions, contrary to the established "regulations; and it being the earnest desire "of the Commander in Chief to check as much "as possible a practice so extremely prejudicial to the service; I am commanded to call "your attention to this important point, and to "impress upon you the necessity of the utmost vigilance, in preventing, as far as may "be in your power, any communication whatever with those persons and the officers in "your Agency: And should it at any time "appear that any such commissions shall have "been negotiated through your offices, the "Commander in Chief will consider it his duty "to recommend to the colonels of the respective regiments to notice such irregularity, by "withdrawing their regiments from that Agency, and placing them in other hands.—I "have it further in command, to desire that "you may be pleased to convey to the officers "commanding regiments in your Agency, the "most marked disapprobation of h. r. h. of "this improper and secret traffic; and to assure them, that if subsequent to the date of "this letter any commission shall be discovered "to be so obtained, such commission will be "immediately cancelled, and the officer be reported to the King, as having acted in direct "disobedience to the orders of the Commander "in Chief.
(Signed) "J. W. GOBDON."
(Copy.) "Circular."
"Horse-Guards, 19 Oct. 1804."
"Sir; I have the commands of h. r. h. tie "Commander in Chief, to transmit for your information and guidance a paper, containing "directions to be from henceforth exactly observed in the purchase and sale of all commissions, according to his Majesty's regulations, and which you will please to cause to "be enforced in the regiment under your command.—Returns of the officers prepared to "purchase, are to be made out according to "the accompanying form, and to he transmitted in the first instance, as soon as possible "after the receipt of this letter. "I have,.&c.
"Officer commanding (Signed)
"Regiment of "J. W. GORDON."
(Copy.)"Horse-Guards, 10 Oct. 1804."
"1. His Majesty's Regulations, in regard to "the sums to be given and received for commissions in the army, having in various instances been disregarded, to the great prejudice of his Majesty's service, h. r. h. the "Commander in Chief is pleased to direct, "that when, an officer is desirous of retiring "from the service, and of having leave to sell "his commission, if his regiment is in G. Britain, be is to send his resignation in the usual "manner; through the commanding officer of his "regiment, to his colonel, who, in transmitting "the same to the Commander in Chief, may "at the same time, if there are purchasers in "the corps, recommend in succession the senior of their respective ranks for purchase, both the colonel and commanding officer "certifying that they are satisfied that no more "than the sum stipulated by his Majesty's regulations is given or received.
"2. Should there he no purchaser in the "regiment, the resignation of the officer desirous to retire is alone to he transmitted in "the manner and form above-mentioned; "when, should the application he deemed "proper to be granted, h. r. h. will recommend "to his Majesty such officer for the purchase "as to h. r. h. may appear most eligible.
"3. Officers belonging to regiments stationed in Ireland, must make their applications "in a similar course to the Commander of the "forces there; and on foreign stations through "the commanding officer to the general officer "under whose command they serve; their applications being uniformly sanctioned by their "respective commanding officers, who are to "certify, in the same manner as colonels of "regiments at home, that they are satisfied in "regard to the sums given or to he received "being in strict conformity to his majesty's "regulations.
"4. Colonels, when absent from G. Britain "and Ireland, may empower the officer in "actual command of their regiments, or their "regimental agents, to recommend purchasers "for vacant commissions, in which case the "necessary certificates, in regard to the sum to "be paid in regimental successions, must be "signed by them in the colonel's absence, as "well as the recommendation for the purchase; "and the person so recommending to cornet-cies or ensigncies, vacant by purchase, will "be held responsible for the eligibility of the "person recommended.
"5. The Commander in Chief is further "pleased to direct, that when an officer is "desirous of retiring to half-pay, receiving the "difference, the same rules are to he observed "in regard to transmitting his application: but "no recommendation in succession is to accompany the request to retire, as h. r. h. will "himself nominate the officer to be proposed "to his majesty for the exchange.
"6. To enable the Commander in Chief to "recommend officers for purchase, it is necessary that regular returns of all officers prepared to purchase promotion should be transmitted from each regiment and corps in the "service to the Commander in Chief's office, "Horse-Guards, London, on the 25th March, "25th June, 25th Sept., and 25th Dec. in each "year, under cover, to h. r. h.'s military secretary; and these returns must particularly "state where the money of each individual desirous of purchasing is lodged, or to be obtained; and similar returns must be for-warded to the regimental agents, for the in-formation of their respective colonels.
"7. Officers, on leave of absence from corps "on foreign service, may transmit their applications to purchase or sell through the colonels of their regiments; and in the event of "a change in an officers circumstances between the quarterly returns, he may make a "direct communication to head-quarters, in "order to prevent any purchase taking place "in his own corps, by which he may be passed "over by a junior officer.
"8. This rule is applicable also to officers "on the recruiting service, or on other military duties, whose corps may be on a foreign "station.
"9. Officers on half-pay, desirous of exchanging to full-pay, giving the regulated "difference, must address themselves to head-"quarters, stating where their money is lodged, "or to be obtained, to enable the Commander "in Chief to recommend them as vacancies "occur.
"10. After these orders have been circulated, no attention will be paid to representations of officers who have neglected to return themselves prepared to purchase; as, "whatever hardships they may suffer in that "case must he entirely owing to their own "neglect.
"11. In causing these orders to be circulated to the army, the Commander in Chief "thinks proper to declare, that any officer who "shall be found to have given, directly or indirectly, any thing beyond the regulated "price, in disobedience to his majesty's orders, "or to have attempted to evade the regulation "in any manner whatever, will be reported by "the Commander in Chief to his majesty, in "order that he may he removed from the service; and it is also to be understood, that "the prescribed forms of application for the "sale and purchase of commissions, and the "usual certificates annexed thereto, are in all "instances to be complied with. By command of h. r. h. the Commander in Chief,
(Signed) "J. W. GORDON,
"Military Secretary."
| FORM OF RETURN. | |||
| REGIMENTS. | Name and Rank of officers desirous to purchase Promotions. | Where their Money if lodged, or to be obtained. | REMARKS. |
N. B. The Returns to be transmitted to head-quarters, are directed to be on a sheet of this sized paper.
Colonel Gordon. In consequence of this letter, it was necessary to issue certain regulations, which, perhaps, it will be unnecessary to trouble the house with, but which I will deliver in with my letter. I beg leave to add, that
that strong letter was found totally insufficient for the purposes; that it did come, to my knowledge, and that I had proof, that those abuses did still exist; that I put that proof into the hands of the most eminent counsel at the time, and they assured me, that I could have no redress against the parties, there was no law to the contrary, and that it did not amount to a misdemeanour. Having mentioned it to the Commander in Chief, I had frequent communication with the then Secretary at War, now a right hon. member of this house, and whom I see in his place, and after frequent conferences with this right hon. gent., he did bring into this house, and submit to its consideration, a clause, which is now part of the Mutiny Act, inflicting a penalty upon all persons, not duly authorized, who shall negotciate for the purchase or sale of any commission whatever.
( By Lord Folkestone.)
You are in the habit of almost daily intercourse with the Commander in Chief? When the Commander in Chief is in town; I do not recollect that I ever passed a day without communicating with him.
At the lime that this exchange was effected between col. Brooke and col. Knight, the king was at Weymouth? I have shewn it to be so.
Did that paper, containing commissions to be submitted to his majesty, go down to Weymouth by the mail coach? I believe so, I had no other mode of sending it.
Do you recollect the D. of Y.'s going down to Weymouth about that time? Perfectly.
Do you know on what day he went down to Weymouth? I do exactly.
On what day? It was the 31st of July.
You have stated, that according to the new regulations introduced since the D. of Y. has been Commander in Chief, a certain number of years must elapse before an officer can be prompted to a certain rank in the army; is any service required by those regulations besides length of time? It is generally understood that an officer must serve six years.
Has it ever come within your knowledge that any officer has been promoted without any service whatever? No, it has not.
Has it ever come within your knowledge that a boy at school has had a commission of ensign? Yes, it certainly has, I think in some three, four, or perhaps some half dozen instances; hot exceeding that; but those commissions have been surreptitiously obtained: and when it was known that the boy was at school, the commission has been cancelled, and that reason given in the Gazette.
Have they been cancelled in every instance? In every instance that has come to the Commander in Chiefs knowledge; and the Commander in Chief will be obliged to any gentleman that would point our, an instance.
Could you name those instances? Not immediately from my recollection, but I can obtain them from reference; but one I can name. I recollect the Barrack Master of Hythe, I think; the name I do not immediately recollect; hut the person I do perfectly, recommending on the score of his own service and great distress, that his son should he recommended for a commission; I recollect also having some suspicion at the time, that this son was not of a proper age; and I do further recollect desiring the officer commanding there, then in command, to examine the young man; and the report of that officer was, that he thought him, though young, eligible for a commission; upon such report the young man was appointed, but when he joined his regiment, the Officer commanding that regiment was of a different opinion, and reported him us too young, and I do perfectly recollect that that commission was cancelled.
Is that the only instance which occurs to your recollection? That is the only instance that occurs; the name of the boy was Kelly.
You have in that box by you, papers ready to answer questions which have been put to you; had you before you came here any idea of the questions that would be put to you? Upon my word I had not; the papers that are now in this box are relative to the exchange of lieut.-cols. Brooke and Knight, part of which I have shewn to the House. All the others relate to the appointment of capt. Maling; to the appointment of alt the officers of the African corns, and to every thing in any manner connected with the African corps.
You had no information of the other questions that would be asked you to-night? Most undoubtedly not.
( By sir Arthur Wellesley.)
You have stated, that you recommended lieut. Maling to be made a captain in the African corps; did you recommend him in your capacity of lieut. col. commandant of the African corps? I most undoubtedly did; because I know it is an extremely difficult thing to get officers to join such a corps as that in Such a place; and I thought it my duty to take particular care, that whatever officer was appointed to the African corps, should clearly understand, that nothing was to prevent him from joining it.
Whom did you recommend to the other company which was added to the African corps at that time? The other officer that was recommended for the company of the African corps was a lieut. Edward Hare; his Memorial I now hold in my hand, if the House would chuse to have it read. It was forwarded by John Law-son, lieut.-col. of the Catterick Volunteer regiment, and certified by the Duke of Richmond, and by lieut.-col. Grey, the Inspecting. Field Officer of the district.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
What were the services of capt. Maling's brother, who is, I believe, a captain in the army, who is in the War-Office? There is a caps. Maling, an assistant of mine, in the office of the Commander in Chief; I take for granted that is the person referred to. What his services are as a lieut. I really do not know; I found him as a lieut. in the office of the Commander in Chief; and in consideration of his extraordinary good character, and more than common abilities, the promotions of the army going through his hands under mine, I did recommend him to h. r. h. the Commander in Chief, to be placed upon the half-pay as a Captain, upon which half-pay he most assuredly will be placed as soon as an opportunity offers; but the Commander in Chief has it not in his power.
Do you know whether or not that capt. Maling ever joined and did duty with any regiment? I do not know that he did; and I do not think that he did.
Does not the Commander in Chief require testimonial, that each candidate for the Army shall be at least 16 years of age? That is the general rule; but it sometimes happens that a boy of 15 may be more strong than a boy of 16 or 17; and all that the Commander in Chief requires is, that he shall be competent to do his duty.
Is it not a general order, that every officer shall join his regiment within one month alter his appointment, except in some special instance? It is very probable that it may be so, but I really cannot speak to that.
( By Lord Folkestone.)
You are very positive as to the date of the D. of Y.'s going to Weymouth in the summer of 1805; do you know at what time of the day h. r. h. went? Upon my word I cannot speak with any degree of accuracy; but it is the custom of the D. of Y. to travel in the night, and he probably went in the night.
Do you apprehend that he did so in the night? I cannot give a more positive answer than I did before.
The Witness Was Directed To Withdraw
wished to know when the hon. gent, would be prepared to bring forward the next Charge, and which he would commence with.
thought that as the committee hail that night heard one of the Charges, and had completely made up their minds upon it, they should come to a decision upon that Charge.
observed, that it was not within the province of the committee to decide upon the Charges. It was their duty to report the evidence to the house, under whose correction they acted.
informed the hon. gent, opposite, that he had enquired whether capt. Huxley Sandon had arrived at Portsmouth, that he found he had, and that orders had been sent to him to come up to town.
observed, that if that officer should not arrive in time for the next examination, the hon. member might proceed with some Charge in which his testimony was not necessary. It would be desirable to proceed with the business on Monday, and he begged to know what Charge the hon. gent, meant to bring forward on that day?
seemed to think Monday too early a day, and said that it was impossible for him to state what particular Charge he should bring forward. (Murmurs.)
expressed his surprise, that his hon. friend was not disposed to proceed with this business on Monday, and also to declare the particular Charge which he meant first to adduce. It was impossible but that he himself should be ready, and if the witnesses should not be here at the time, it would be competent to him then to defer the proceeding.
observed that capt. Huxley Sandon was a material witness in every Charge, and that the probability of his being able to attend on Monday, did not seem to be very great.
asked which Charge the hon. gent, meant to bring forward first? He was not precluded from fixing on which he pleased; but the committee had a right to see that no delay took place. He would not believe that the hon. gent. would prefer Charges of this serious kind, relying on the absence of the witnesses.
said he had many reasons for wishing to fix Tuesday instead of Monday. He was not yet able to discover where a Mrs. Shaw lived. He had been told that she was in Bath, and his agent had inquired there, but found she had left it. He believed she would be a material witness. He wished for no unnecessary delay, but he hoped that the usual indulgence of the house would grant him a few days to consider which Charge he should next go into. He would even engage to communicate to-morrow to the rt. hon. gent, in private the Charge he meant next to proceed on, and to give the list of witnesses whose attendance he should require.
saw no right any gentleman had to compel his hon. friend to proceed in the absence of any of his witnesses. He was asking no more than common indulgence, in desiring that he might have till Monday to fix an early day for proceeding. The business already standing in the order book, for Monday, was more than sufficient for that day.
said, it might be found that there was enough standing in the order-book for every day of the session; but that was no reason why this important discussion should be delayed. If any of the witnesses were absent, that was enough. But why the hon. member had not made up his mind which Charge he was next to proceed on, he could not possibly conceive.
agreed that he could see no reason why the hon. member should not have made up his mind on that subject. But though he could not sec it, the hon. gent, might have reasons for it in his own mind, which were perfectly satisfactory. One reason for not fixing the farther proceeding for Monday the hon. gent. had already stated, namely, the absence of Mrs. Shaw. These were Charges of a serious nature, no doubt, but they were also Charges in which the public were interested, and gentlemen would not consult the true character of the house or of the king if the person preferring such Charges was treated with unkindness and browbeating. He thought, on the contrary, that the accuser, as well as the accused, should be treated in the most impartial manner. He thought this justice was the more peculiarly due to the accuser, when a right hon. secretary (Mr. Canning) had thrown out a sort of threat to him, in saying, that infamy must attach somewhere. This threat, however, notwithstanding the high authority and official weight of the quarter from whence it proceeded, would not, as he believed, produce its object. No person on that side of the house where he sat could have any interest in supporting the hon. gent. They had not been consulted on the subject of the Charges, or on the mode of bringing them forward. As the hon. gent, however, relied on himself alone, he should be treated with kindness. It would be odd if gentlemen on the other side of the house, who expressed such anxiety to meet the Charges, should now, by pushing on the hon. member while his proof was incomplete, defeat the very object which they stated they had so much at heart.
considered it a most unfounded insinuation to construe what he had said into a threat or a supposition that his official weight was to have any influence on the determination of the committee. He should however say, that he believed the hon. gent.'s affectation of candour would have as little weight. The hon. gent. had disclaimed all knowledge or participation in this accusation, both for himself and all those who sat near him on the same benches. He would give the hon. gent, credit as far as he spoke of himself only; but when he spoke of all those around him, he believed he spoke without authority.
said, that as to the candour of the right hon. secretary, or his (Mr. Smith's) affectation of candour which he did not possess, he was willing to throw himself on the candour of the house to judge between him and the right hon. gent. As to the other charge, of his having spoken without authority from gentlemen who sat on the same side of the house with him, he had heard similar declarations to that which he himself had made from every person on that side of the house, who had at all spoken on the subject. Of course, therefore, if he had spoken in their names without any actual authority from them to that effect, he had not spoken without some knowledge of their sentiments.
said, that after the attack which had been made from the other side of the house, he felt it requisite for him to say, that if this was the way that persons who came forward with accusations were to be assisted by the wisdom of the house, there would be very little encouragement for any member to put himself forward for the detection of any great public abuses. He could not tell who the right hon. secretary alluded to; but, for himself, he would be ashamed to disclaim publicly any thing which a member of parliament might do with perfect propriety. If any member in the house had been consulted on those charges before they were brought in, he might with perfect propriety give his opinion (whatever it might be) upon the subject. For his part, he should continue to discharge his parliamentary duty according to the best of his judgment, without fearing the comments which others might make upon his conduct. He thought his hon. friend entitled to protection, as he had in a very incautious manner exposed himself to considerable obloquy. He would deprecate, as contrary to the ends of justice, any appearance of indecent precipitation in the committee in forcing the hon. gent, to proceed in his charges, at a time that he declared himself not to be quite ready. It did appear to him, that the hon. accuser had acted in the most fair, candid, and even incautious manner; and that much of the reproach which he had unjustly incurred, had arisen from his desire to comply with the indecent hurry of the gentlemen opposite.
admitted that the lion, baronet had taken a manly part: that he had stated his reasons frankly, and he knew he had ability to maintain them. But, what would be said if there was a person who had secretly advised—who bad secretly been consulted, and who sheltered himself in silence under that broad disclaiming shield which an hon. gent, had thrown over himself and his friends? If such a person existed, he must apply to his conduct terms very different from those which he had in justice applied to that of the hon. baronet.
with great warmth, accused the right honourable secretary of making a covert attack on some individual, whom he did not venture openly to denounce, and called upon him, with the same manliness which he had praised so highly in the hon. bait, to name the person to whom he alluded. (A pause of half a minute: cries of "Name! Name!") If the right hon. gent, would not name the person, it must be taken for granted that he had no ground for his insinuation.
called on the right hon. gent, to state the ground of his belief, that his hon. friend (Mr. Smith) stated what he had done without any authority.
said, the hon. gent, himself had admitted it.
said it was impossible what he had said in reply could be the foundation for the original insinuation made by the right hon. gentleman.
repeated, that this was too serious a thing to be passed over, and he again called on the right hon. gent, to name the person whom he described as having sheltered himself in unmanly silence.
protested against this unparliamentarily mode of calling on one hon. member to name another.
replied, that if the right hon. gent, had sat near him, he would not have been surprised at his feelings; when the right hon. secretary, by a direct insinuation, and by his gestures and looks, evidently directed towards himself, had pointed him out as the object of his attack.
You had better all go home and go to bed. (A loud laugh.) The house having resumed, a conversation arose as to the day on which the Committee should meet again.
stated, that he had used the freedom some days ago, understanding that his hon. friend (Mr. Wardle) was about to bring forward charges of the kind he had done, to send to him, requesting that he would be cautious how he interfered in the business, he having reason to believe that, with the very best intentions, his hon. friend had lent himself to the designs of a foul conspiracy. He was sorry to understand that his hon. friend had not received that message, for, in the end, he was assured, he would find that he had been decoyed into a foul and unprincipled association. Were we, however, to be told that such grave and important charges—charges by which the vital interests of the country at this critical moment were affected, in which it was a question whether any officer or soldier in the British army ought or ought not to look up with reverence and respect to their head; whether, indeed, he was worthy of continuing a moment longer in the command of the army: were we to be told that in such a case as this any delay ought to be admitted? The hon. gent, forsooth, was not ready to prove his charges! Yes, but he was ready to make them! Of delay in such a case, the honour, the best interests of the country, would not admit. If the hon. gent. chose to make his charges, he must be ready to prove them. It was at length settled that the Committee should sit again on Tuesday, and that capt. Huxley sandon, Mr. Donovan, Mrs. Clarke, Mrs. Shaw, &c. be summoned to attend.—Adjourned at twelve o'clock.