rose to move for leave to bring in a bill, which the House had repeatedly shewn that it thought necessary, although another House of Parliament seemed of a very different opinion; he meant a bill to prevent the grant of Places and Pensions in Reversion. The bills which the House had already passed for this purpose had the misfortune to fail in the House of Lords, as well as another bill, which had originated in that House within the present session. Nevertheless, he thought the mode by which the House was most likely to carry its wishes ultimately into effect, was to show that it was in earnest by using every means it might constitutionally adopt, without the appearance of pertinacity, to obtain final success in a measure so necessary to public economy, end so satisfactory, as it would be, to public feeling. He understood, that in the other House of Parliament it was not usual to entertain or discuss measures which were considered to encroach upon the privileges of the crown, without having, his Majesty's assent expressed by his ministers to the discussion. He was not conversant with the proceedings of the other House of Parliament, but he could find no such principle in the proceeding of this House; and, not withstanding that a bill of a similar nature had been lost this session in the other House which had originated there, still he thought their lordships would not be indisposed to receive another bill, having the same general object in view, but worded in a different manner; and instead of proposing, as in the former bills, to perpetuate the prohibition, to render it a bill of suspension of the prerogative from time to time. His right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had himself never shown any hostility to the measure. On the contrary, he understood him to be friendly to its principle; and therefore he hoped it would not be deemed unparliamentary if he now ventured to recommend to his right hon. friend, as one of the confidential advisers of his Majesty, to endeavour to remove the obstacles to this bill in another place, and to obtain, if possible, his Majesty's consent to its admission and discussion in the other House. The hon. member concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill.

said, he felt no disposition of hostility to the motion of his hon. friend. At the same time he declared, that the principle now avowed by the hon. member, namely, that of making the bill a temporary measure, was one the most likely to obtain for it success, and therefore it was that he had recommended this line of proceeding. He had always thought it improper to appoint to such reversions while the Committee of Finance continued to sit, and if it should be deemed right to abolish, upon their recommendation, any offices on the demise of the present occupiers or possessors, of course no reversions would be assigned, and the bill, so far as it related to such particular appointments, would be unnecessary. He should not object to the motion of his hon. friend for leave to bring in the bill, reserving to himself the right of moving in the Committee on the bill an amendment of the title in these words, "for a time to be limited." With respect, however, to the advice given him by his hon. friend, as one of his Majesty's ministers, touching the counsel it might be his duty to give his Majesty upon the subject of this bill, although he considered it by no means unparliamentary, or improper, for his hon. friend to suggest to him that advice, yet it would be extremely improper for him to declare in that House, what the advice might be which he should feel it his duty to offer to his Majesty elsewhere.—Leave was given to bring in the bill.

rose for the purpose of adverting to an act of injustice which had taken place in the naval service. He would not use harsh language on the occasion, since he was fully convinced that the injustice arose merely from ignorance and inadvertency. He would now state to the House the grounds on which he meant to trouble them. Some papers would be necessary to elucidate his statement, and for these he proposed to move; the first were letters that had passed between admiral Montague and the first lord of the admiralty; those letters would shew, that at the very moment when the admiral's son was refused examination, other officers had passed, one of whom was immediately appointed a lieutenant. Mr. Montague's actual time of previous service was out in August, when, if he had passed, he would have been a lieutenant in the Mediterranean fleet. For this injury there was now no remedy, unless his commission was antedated. He would next call for a letter from lord Collingwood, shewing, that at that time a commission was vacant for Mr. Montague. He would not trouble the House with any detail, as he had heard that a remedy was intended in the present case; but before he sat down, he felt that he was only doing his duty to press upon them the prevention of the recurrence of the same unintended injury to others on distant services; for instance, there must be many similar situations among officer serving in the East and West Indies. It could not be known there, that the regulations of the new naval college, though, they originated in 1806, did not fully apply till 1808; and to make it impossible to have any further doubt upon the subject, he would now move an address to his Majesty, "That the ninth article of the 2d chapter of naval instruction, of Dec. 1806, he transmitted to all captains on foreign stations, and all boards, and others connected with the examination of officers; and also that such other parts of the code as were applied to examination should be selected and transmitted." Yet he felt that the remedy for the peculiar case of which he spoke, would come so much better from the admiralty, that on an assurance of that remedy's being intended, he should not press the question.

thanked the hon. bart. for the mildness with which he brought forward the motion, but conceived that with reference to the papers which he mentioned, they ought to have been brought forward before the House could adopt any specific motion; but to save any misconception he would narrate the matter in its progress. By an order of council, so long since as 1773, any officer, after serving three years at the Portsmouth Naval Academy, and three years on sea, was entitled to be examined for a higher rank. By the new code the time at school was not defined by years, but a certain course of education was to be fully gone through, and after that four years were to be served at sea before an examination could be given. It happened that just a month before the enactment of the new order, the old one had pased the council, in the routine of business. This was in 1806. The lords of the admiralty did not give full being to the new academy, se as to abrogate the old, till 1808; thus the two were in being together, but the laws of service in each were still applying to the different classes of persons. An order was issued to prevent mistakes on this point, and guarding to those who served under the old rules, their privilege of passing after three years service at sea. At this time Mr. Montague presented himself to the examining captains on the Mediterranean station; they conceiving themselves to be acting under the new code, would not examine him on less than four years' service. Admiral Montague applied to lord Mulgrave, with the zeal becoming a father—his lordship laid the case before the admiralty counsel, and it pronounced him inadmissible. Lord Mulgrave, feeling the case one that pressed on the individual, requested admiral Montague to make his own statement, and submit it to the counsel. It was submitted, and the same judgment passed on it as before—still, every effort was made to draw up the latent justice of the thing, and a case was drawn up by himself (Mr. Ward), which was laid before the attorney And solicitor general. The day on which the hon. bart. gave notice of motion, was before the opinion was returned from those lawyers—and he (Mr. Ward) had taken it upon him only to advise his postponing it; in this he was wrong; for his plain course would have been to let the motion be made, and then state to the House, that the papers were still before counsel. It was but two days ago, that the opinion of counsel was given in favour of Mr. Montague's claim; and at that time lord Mulgrave took occasion to say, that he would have great pleasure in allowing him to be examined, with a priority of date, corresponding to the time at which his examination should have taken place. Some cases had been mentioned of others, to whom no delay had occurred. From the tenor of the hon. bart.'s language, he was Convinced that there was an idea of imputing the difference to malice or partiality—but they passed, merely because the rules had been better known at home than abroad; and if Mr. Montague's claim had been disallowed finally, they should at once have returned to their original rank. An officer of the name of Jenkinson had passed, and since got a lieutenancy, but this was merely because at the navy office they had not the same scruples as in the Mediterranean. He hoped that now the statement had been laid plainly before the House, no misconception could exist upon the subject.

was surprised at the assertion of his hon. friend, that the admiralty was not in the habit of investigating the grounds upon which certificates were granted by the navy board. On the contrary, such an examination was the peculiar duty of the admiralty, and he could affirm, that it was a duty never over-looked upon any application for promotion, while he had the honour of being a member of that board. The appointment of Jenkinson upon the 11th of December, so soon after his examination on the 7th, was naturally calculated to excite conversation out of doors, where the refusal of Mr. Montague's promotion was much talked of, and particularly in consequence of some difference that was known to exist between the first lord of the admiralty and admiral Montague, the father of the gentleman alluded to in the motion. The hon. officer contended, that there was no order in council that warranted the demand of four years service afloat, to qualify for a lieutenancy. This probably was an arrangement of the first lord of the admiralty, who was known to be very forward to act for himself on subjects of which he could know little or nothing, and who, in the case under discussion, referred to lawyers, instead of referring to his professional colleagues. Indeed, it was understood, that in this case the first lord took a course directly opposite to the unanimous opinion of all his professional colleagues. If this were not the fact, he called upon the secretary of the admiralty to deny it.

vindicated the conduct of the admiralty, and denied that there was in any person belonging to that board any disposition of hostility towards admiral Montague. We (said Mr. Croker) referred his case to our counsel, Mr. Jervis; his opinion was against the claims of admiral Montague. We then called upon the gallant admiral to furnish us with his own statement of his own case, drawn up by his own hand; the gallant admiral did so. The last statement given in was referred by us to the attorney and solicitor general; their opinion was in favour of the young man's claim. Gentlemen then, must see that it could be a question of no ordinary difficulty, when three counsel of such great professional authority differed upon its merits.—We did not think fit to decide upon it ourselves, not being all of us professional men. Some of us were, to be sure, more immediately connected with the navy as a profession than others of us were—we were not all lawyers, and therefore we thought it expedient to refer the case to legal opinion. A gallant admiral (Markham) has thrown out a broad insinuation, as if all the professional lords of the admiralty differed generally from the opinions of the first lord. The gallant admiral had even asked me it I could deny it? I do deny it; and this I take to be a sufficient answer to the question put to me by the gallant admiral.—The hon. gent. then proceeded to contend with great warmth that the admiralty were well disposed towards admiral Montague, and well inclined to grant him every favour they could. There was not a person at the board that did not feel so disposed towards the gallant admiral.

said, that one would imagine from the great warmth the hon. gent. had displayed, that he differed all the time from those who supported the present motion. There had been no intention of charging the admiralty, with any hostility towards admiral Montague. The hon. gent. had told them that they were not all lawyers at the board of Admiralty. This certainly was comfortable intelligence in these times, when official departments were so over-run with lawyers: the first lord of the treasury a lawyer, the chancellor of the exchequer a lawyer, a secretary of state a lawyer, and the secretary of the admiralty a lawyer. There were lawyers enough in all conscience though to those who were strangers to the peculiarity of the hon. gent.'s pronunciation, it might appear that he had rather singular notions of what was, and what was not professional, as that hon. gent. had spoke so much of parsons not being professional men [a laugh] though he (Mr. W.) believed that those reverend gentlemen were generally considered as such. The hon. gent. had entered into a warm defence, that was altogether unne- cessary, of himself and the board of admiralty, no matter which, for the hon. gent. had done the board the honour of identifying them with himself. He spoke as big as the first lord of the admiralty might do, but certainly would not; and as if he had been himself at least one of the lords, it was nothing hut "we did this," and "we ordered that—our opinions, and our orders, our counsel, and what not. To be sure, the hon. gent. had some pretensions. He had not been idle since he came into office. He had been the means of converting a venerable old gentleman, for whom he (Mr. W.) had great respect, into a young and enterprising sea-officer, and major Cartwright, who was of his Majesty's army, was then, according to the hon. gent., a rising lieutenant of the royal navy; nor had the official exertions of the hon. gent. stopped with the living. He was resolved to be grateful to those who died in their country's service, and to promote them if he was to raise the dead for it.

replied, that he was for a long time at a loss to make out what the hon. gent. meant by imputing to him language that had never fallen from him; but he now found that the object of the hon. gent. was to make a joke, and therefore he must forgive him, though the joke was not, after all, a very good one. At the same time he must request of that hon. gent. the next time he intended to make jokes, not to ground them upon misrepresentations of what had been said by him.—After some further conversation, sir C. Pole agreed to withdraw his motion for the present, on an understanding that the required accommodation would take place.