rose and stated that he had, on a former occasion, given notice of a motion for the discharge of Mr. Gale Jones.

here interrupted him, observing, that if the hon. and learned member meant to submit any motion, or enter upon any discussion which would occupy much time, he felt it necessary to apprize him that according to the practice of the House, it would be proper that a matter of privilege which he (the Speaker) had to bring before the House should have the preference.

stated, that he did not intend at present to submit any motion. He had given notice, in the course of his speech on the subject debated on Thursday evening, that he would take the earliest opportunity of moving that Mr. Jones be discharged. On Friday morning he had fixed that notice for this day. But the events that had occurred since this notice was given, had induced him to think that it would be better to postpone it till gentlemen's minds were less agitated than they could be at present. He desired it might be understood that he would press his motion on the single ground that Mr. Jones had already suffered a punishment adequate to the offence. He never had any intention of resting it upon any ground of doubts as to the legality of the commitment, when he found that persons of so much more experience than himself differed from him in opinion on this point. He would not now name any day for bringing forward the motion, but it would be an early one.—He hoped he might now be allowed to say a few words respecting himself, as the subject was to him of great importance. Though no one, he hoped, could suppose it possible that he had any share in the counsels which appeared to have governed the conduct of sir F. Burdett on this occasion, yet having seen it stated in some of the newspapers that he had been at sir F. Burdett's within these few days past, he begged leave to say, that he had never been at sir F. Burdett's house either before or since the recent occurrences.

rose and addressed the House thus:

Upon the matter of sir Francis Burdett's commitment, I have to acquaint the House, That I did on Friday morning last at half past eight o'clock, in obedience to their commands, sign the warrants, and immediately delivered them to the Serjeant to carry into effect; specially directing him, if possible, not to delay the execution of his duty beyond ten o'clock of that morning. The Serjeant will have to report to the House the circumstances which have attended the execution of those warrants: But before the House receives that report, I have also, to acquaint the House, that I did, at a late hour on Friday evening last, receive a letter from sir Francis Burdett, upon the subject of his commitment, which he desires me to read to this House; and which I shall accordingly now, read to the House if it be their pleasure; but this is a matter of which I am, not the master, it must be by the pleasure of the House signified to me that I should do so.

. Sir, before you read that letter, I would observe, that you have omitted to state the hour at which you received it; may I beg leave to ask it?

, I think I said on Friday evening, and late on Friday evening; the hour at which I received I am ready to state to the hon. member; he will permit me also to state, that there is no part of this transaction since its commencement of which I have not made notes from hour to hour, as far as they concerned myself; the hour was ten o'clock, the letter was left at my house (as I was told by my servants) by two gentlemen, who desired an answer; I read the letter and said there was no answer.

By direction of the House, Mr. Speaker then read the letter: viz.

"Piccadilly, April 6, 1810.

"Sir;—When I was returned in, due form by the electors of Westminster, they imagined that they had chosen me as their trustee in a House of Commons to maintain the laws and liberties of the land; having accepted that trust I never will betray it: I have also as a dutiful subject, taken an oath of allegiance to the King to obey his laws, and I never will consent by any act of mine to obey any set of men, who, contrary to those laws, assume the power of the King.—Power and privilege are not the same things, and ought not to be confounded together; privilege is an exemption from power, and was by law secured to the third branch of the legislature to protect them, that they might safely protect the people; not to give them power to destroy the people.—Your warrant, Sir, I believe you to know to be illegal. I know it to be so. To superior force I must submit; but I will not, and dare not incur the danger of continuing voluntarily to make one, of any set of men who shall assume illegally the whole power of the realm; and who have no more right to take myself, or any one of my constituents by force, than I or they possess to take any one of those who are now guilty of this usurpation. And I would condescend to accept the meanest office that would vacate my seat; being more desirous of getting out of my present association, than other men may be desirous of getting profitably into it.—Sir, this is not a letter in answer to a vote of thanks, it is an answer to a vote of a very different kind, I know not what to call it; but since you have begun this correspondence with me, I must beg you to read this my answer to those under whose orders you have commenced it.—I remain, Sir, your most obedient humble servant,

"FRANCIS BURDETT."

"To the Right honourable the Speaker.

. The next thing the House have to dispose of is, whether this letter shall be ordered to lie upon the table; that is matter of question, and of vote; I cannot proceed further without the commands of the House.

then rose, and observed, that the best way would be not to say a single syllable on the subject of the letter at present. He should therefore simply move, that it be laid on the table, to be considered on a future occasion.

suggested that it would be better even to adjourn the debate on the question; That the letter be laid on the table until the next day; and he moved accordingly. This motion was agreed to without any opposition.

. The House will now give me leave to suggest that this may be a convenient time for receiving the report of the Serjeant.

[The House expressing a desire accordingly, the Serjeant at Arms attended at the bar.]

. Report to the House the circumstances which have attended the execution of the warrant on sir Francis Burdett.

The House will permit me to read the minutes I have made upon, this subject. On the morning of Friday last, as soon as I received the warrant for apprehending sir Francis Burdett, I repaired, with Mr. Clementson, to sir Francis Burdett's house, (it was then about nine o'clock) and was told by the servant who opened the door, that sir Francis was not at home: I went immediately from thence to my own house, and wrote a letter to sir Francis, telling him that I had called on him that morning for the purpose of serving a warrant to apprehend him, and convey him to the Tower, or words to that effect; I stated at the same time, that it was my wish in performing my duty as Serjeant at Arms to consult his convenience as far as it was in my power, as to the time and method of his removal; this letter I sent by Mr. Clementson, and desired him on leaving it to ask again if sir Francis was at home. A little before four o'clock I went down to the House of Commons, and was told, that sir Francis had been seen going into his house; I immediately went back, and saw sir Francis. He told me that he had written me an answer to my letter, thanking me for it, and saying, that he would be ready to receive me the next morning at eleven o'clock; at the same time he said he should write a letter to the Speaker. I then left him under the impression that be intended to go with me the next morning; and thinking that the quietest method of carring the thing into effect was the best, and having received the Speaker's advice when I received the warrant to treat sir Francis with proper respect and courtesy, or words to that effect. I may be allowed perhaps to state at this moment that I had always conceived that to have been a sufficient notice from myself to a member of Parliament, without serving the warrant perhaps in a more regular way. If I have erred in any way, I trust the House will consider that I did it from a proper motive of delicacy; that I wished to shew proper respect to a member of parliament upon such an occasion; and had I wished to carry my warrant into effect at that moment, it would I think not have been in my power, as I had no assistance with me whatever, and there was a large mob collected before the door of sir Francis's house. From sir Francis's house I went to the Speaker, and reported to him what had taken place; and the Speaker advised me immediately to go back and put my warrant into execution, and also advised me to call at the Secretary of State's Office for any assistance I conceived necessary to enable me to execute my warrant. I was detained at the Secretary of State's Office till half past seven, and then was attended by Mr. Clementson to sir F. Burdett's house. On our being admitted to him, I told sir Francis that I was sorry to inform him that I must name an earlier hour for his removal, and shewed him the warrant for taking him into custody, which he read. Sir Francis then said, that he disputed the legality of the Speaker's warrant; I think he first said he should write a letter to the Speaker, for that he disputed the legality of the Speaker's warrant, and that nothing but actual force should make him go, which he would resist as far as it was in his power; I then thought it necessary with the Deputy Serjeant at Arms to withdraw, and lose no time in carrying the purpose into effect. I then went to the Secretary of State's Office to arrange about a force to attend me to the Tower, and found on going out of sir Francis's house that a very large mob had assembled there, and in other parts of the town; and considering the lateness of the hour, it being then about nine o'clock, and that no measures had been taken to communicate with the Lord Mayor as to his sending a force to meet me at the confines of the city of London, without which I should have been left on arriving there totally unattended by either civil or military power, I determined to put the business off till half past six the following morning; as I considered that when I should arrive with the police officers that were to attend me at the confines of the city of London, they would then have been obliged to have gone away, and to have left the carriage in which I was conducting sir F. Burdett with only myself and perhaps a messenger of the House of Commons in it, which, in the state of the town at that time, I did not think myself justified in risking; I went again to the Secretary of State's Office to arrange the necessary assistance I was to have for the next morning, and at the same time dispatched Mr. Clementson to the Mansion House, to settle with the Lord Mayor relative to the assistance he was to afford in forwarding us to the Tower. At half past six the following morning I went to sir Francis's house attended by Mr. Clementson, two messengers from the House of Commons, and about twenty police officers; on knocking at the door we were answered that sir Francis was not at home, and the servant said, he did not know when he would be in. Conceiving then that sir Francis had gone to his house at Wimbledon, I immediately set out for that place, attended by Mr. Clementson and the high constable, one messenger belonging to the House of Commons, and one police officer, leaving a messenger in sir F. Burdett's hall; on arriving at Wimbledon, I was told that sir Francis was not there; I then returned to town, and Mr. Clementson gave the warrant to the messenger who was left in sir Francis's hall, and I went to my own house, and staid there for a short time. During the time that the messenger was in the hall with the warrant sir F. Burdett returned from riding; on sir F. Burdett's coming into his house the messenger served him with the warrant, which I believe he read. He said if it was the same warrant that he had been served with by the Serjeant at Arms he should resist it, and not obey it. The messenger told sir Francis it was his duty as he was in possession of the warrant, not to leave him, but to remain with him; I fancy the messenger was not turned out by force, but he was told he was to go out, and not having any assistance he went away. On my going out again for the purpose of going to the Speaker, I was told that sir Francis had been seen in the streets; I immediately went to sir Francis's house and knocked at the door, which was opened a little way with a large chain across. On my asking the servant for sir F. Burdett, telling him my name, the servant answered, I could not come in, and shut the door upon me. On the following morning, which was Sunday, at seven o'clock I went again to sir Francis's house, attended by Mr. Clementson and some police officers, and knocked at the door several times, but got no admittance, and after waiting a short time I withdrew, and Mr. Clementson and myself by turns waited in the neighbourhood of sir Francis's house for the rest of the day and the night, thinking that he might come out again, and that we might have an opportunity of apprehending him. I also left messengers to watch the avenues to his house. I must state here that on the evening of Saturday, about nine, having great doubts as to the power I was possessed of by my warrant, I sent the warrant to the Attorney General for his opinion, how far I might be justified in making forcible entrance into sir F. Burdett's house, and on that opinion I acted this morning. The House must allow me to state from recollection what has since passed, as I have not had time to make minutes of it. I went to the Secretary of State's Office last night to request civil and military assistance to carry my purpose into effect, and this morning at ten o'clock I went to sir F. Burdett's house with twenty or thirty police officers, and a detachment of cavalry and infantry, to ensure the escorting the carriage which I had in waiting to convey sir Francis to the Tower. I thought myself justified on the opinion the Attorney General had given in carrying my duty into execution, which I was so anxious to fulfil; it had cost me a great deal of uneasiness that I had not had the means of doing it before. I forced an entrance into sir F. Burdett's house down the area, attended by some police officers, and got up into his hall, where I left a party of the foot guards and went up into a room with the police officers, where sir F. Burdett was; I told sir Francis that I had that force that it was quite unnecessary his making any resistance, however painful it was to me to proceed in this way; that he was my prisoner, and must immediately come into the carriage that was prepared for him. He asked me to shew him the warrant: I told him I arrested him by virtue of that and a former warrant he had been served with, which he had already read, and did not wish to have read again. As soon as the carriage was got round to the door, sir F. Burdett got into the carriage, attended by Mr. Clementson, a messenger, and his brother, and I on horseback attended him, and delivered him to the charge of the deputy lieutenant of the Tower. If I have in any way exceeded or not acted up to the spirit of my duty, it has been done, I can assure the House, from motives of delicacy that I wished to shew towards a member of parliament, the case being quite unprecedented, and not expecting any resistance, never dreaming of resistance, thinking that if I told sir F. Burdett he was to go with me to the Tower he would immediately have gone. I submit to the House these considerations.

Examined by Mr. Whtibread.

At what hour on Friday did you first inform the Speaker that sir F. Burdett intended to resist the warrant?—Between five and six o'clock.

Did you communicate personally with the Speaker, or write to him a letter upon this subject?—I communicated with him personally.

Where?—In the Speaker's private chamber behind the chair.

Was the House then sitting?—It was.

When did you first go to the Secretary of State's office, by direction of the Speaker?—Immediately after this period when the Speaker had told me to put my warrant into execution; it was about a quarter before six, or about six.

How soon did you see the under secretary of state?—His under secretary, Mr. Beckett, went with me from the House of Commons,

How soon did you see Mr. Ryder?—I saw Mr. Ryder I should suppose about twenty minutes after I left the House, as far as my recollection serves me.

How long did you wait at the secretary of state's office before you saw Mr. Ryder?—I had very little communication with Mr. Ryder at all upon this subject.

When had you any communication with Mr. Ryder, and what was it?—I was coming out of the secretary of state's office and met Mr. Ryder; he said, he thought the business had been very much mismanaged. I said, I was sorry to hear that, that I thought I had done every thing in my power, and was in hopes I should be borne out; I asked him, if he wished to speak to me, and he said no, and went, I believe, to lord Liverpool's: in short he went away, and I did not see him again that evening to the best of my recollection; the business I transacted was with Mr. Beckett, relative to the force I was to have.

Where did the communication between you and Mr. Ryder take place which you have related?—In the street the first time that I saw Mr. Ryder.

To whom did you apply, at the secretary of state's office, or elsewhere, in consequence of recommendation of the Speaker to apply to the secretary of state?—To Mr. Beckett, and to magistrates that were there.

What was the nature of the application made by you to Mr. Beckett?—I told Mr. Beckett that I thought I should have a sufficient civil force, and at the same time that I thought it absolutely necessary, in my own opinion, that I should have an escort of cavalry, for that police officers on foot I thought would be unable to keep up with the carriage in their way to the Tower, and that I conceived it absolutely necessary that a military escort should attend me.

What answer did Mr. Beckett make?—He referred me to the magistrates.

Who were the magistrates then present?—Mr. Read, and I think Mr. Graham, who both said, that if military assistance was found to be wanting, it would be sent to my relief.

Did Mr. Beckett, in consequence of communication with yon, or during the communication with you, refer to the principal secretary of state for the home department?—I believe he might; I fancy he went out of the room once or twice: I rather believe he did.

Did he state to you that he was about so to do?—I do not recollect.

Had you any communication with any other of his Majesty's ministers previous to the period of which you are now speaking?—With none.

Did you ask to see Mr. Ryder when at the office?—I believe I must be allowed to correct myself; I saw Mr. Ryder before I left the House, for a moment, behind the chair in the House of Commons, in my way to the Speaker's chamber.

That was on the Friday?—Yes,

What passed, or did any thing pass between you and Mr. Ryder at that time?—He told me that Mr. Beckett was within the House, and that I might speak to him; I had forgotten the circumstance.

Did you, at that time, communicate to Mr. Ryder that sir Francis Burdett intended to resist the warrant?—No, I had not seen sir Francis Burdett for the second time then; I think in my way to sir Francis Burdett's I went to the secretary of state's office, and afterwards went to sir Francis Burdett the second time.

When the Speaker directed you to make application to the secretary of state's office, you had not informed the Speaker that you understood sir Francis Burdett intended to resist the warrant?—No, I only had informed the Speaker, that I had fixed eleven o'clock the next morning for going with sir Francis Burdett to the Tower.

.—Before this examination is proceeded in, I would take the liberty to suggest, that I might perhaps call to the Serjeant's recollection, specifically, what passed: I had directed the Serjeant to serve his warrant, if possible, before ten of the clock that morning, assigning as my reason, that I should be desirous that he should not convey sir Francis Burdett through the streets of London in the middle of the day if that could be well avoided. The next Intercourse I had with the Serjeant (if such it may be called) was by hearing from the deputy Serjeant at two o'clock that a letter had been, written by the Serjeant to sir Francis Burdett. No copy of the letter was communicated to me; but the general contents were stated to me; and it was stated also, that the Serjeant would be at the House at its sitting, to report what he had done. Between three and four o'clock, being at the table of the House, information was brought to me that the Serjeant was preparing to make his report, but that sir Francis Burdett had been seen in the streets; I immediately sent out word to the Serjeant not to stop to make any report here, but to go and take sir Francis Burdett into custody: From that time till half-past five o'clock in the afternoon I heard no more; the House was then in a committee, and it was intimated to me that the Serjeant desired to speak with me. The state in which the House then was, rendering it possible, I immediately went to my private room; the Serjeant came to me there, and my first words to the Serjeant were, "All I can have to say to you is, to ask where is the receipt of the lieutenant of the Tower for your prisoner?" Thereupon the Serjeant proceeded to state, that he had seen sir Francis Burdett, and an arrangement had been made between him and sir Francis Burdett that he should go the next day to the Tower at eleven o'clock; and that was the footing on which things were left: To which I replied, "Possibly you may be in the Tower to-morrow or sooner; but what you have to do now is to go and take your prisoner to the Tower, before dark;" he departed. I never heard one word of the intention of sir Francis Burdett to resist, till the Serjeant came to me again at night, between nine arid ten o'clock, the House having risen that evening between six and seven; I am sure it was past nine, and that it was not ten, for sir Francis Burdett's letter came at ten; and the Serjeant then stated (as he has done now) the substance of the conversation with sir Francis Burdett, in which that passage occurred, that, "on his shewing my warrant, sir Francis Burdett gave him to understand, he should resist it," it was the relation of that conversation which gave me the first knowledge that any resistance was intended on the part of sir Francis Burdett.

Examination by Mr. Whitbread continued.

When did you next visit the secretary of state's office?—Immediately after leaving sir Francis Burdett's house, I went to the secretary of state's office.

About what time did you arrive at the office?—I should think about nine o'clock in the evening: nearly nine I think.

Did you see Mr. Ryder at that time?—No.

Whom did you see?—Mr. Read the magistrate, Mr. Beckett, and Mr. Graham I think.

What passed between you and Mr. Beckett at that time?—Very little passed; the chief conversation was relative to the military assistance I was to have, which I endeavoured to impress upon them, and they did not seem inclined to grant.

State the substance of the conversation as far as you can recollect—I wished to impress upon them that I thought a civil force insufficient, and that I very much doubted, whether I should undertake it with a civil force only of constables walking by the side of the carriage for so great a distance as the Tower was from sir Francis's house; that I thought those men would be unable to keep up with the carriage, and unable to make any resistance in case it should be attempted to rescue sir Francis Burdett.

What was the answer they gave?—Mr. Read, the magistrate, chiefly thought that it might be done with that, without military force, but that military force should be ready if any body came and stated upon oath that it was necessary I should have it. I thought this quite impossible, for that a mob might meet the carriage on the Islington road (the road I meant to take) and that if then attacked it would be too late before any military assistance could be sent from the Horse Guards to my relief; they seemed to imply that I had my warrant, and that I was to put it into execution, and that they thought those means sufficient; and rather than give up trying to effect my purpose I did consent to go to sir Francis Burdett's house, and begin my business with thirty constables the next morning, trusting to chance, and to their sending me a military escort.

How long did you remain at the secretary of state's office in conversation with Mr. Beckett and the two magistrates?—A very considerable time, till a very late hour; till twelve o'clock to the best of my recollection

Did Mr. Ryder never appear nor take a part in any of the conversations that passed?—Certainly not; those conversations passed in a room below stairs with Mr. Beckett, Mr. Read, and Mr. Graham.

Were there any other persons present besides Mr. Beckett, Mr. Read, and Mr. Graham?—Persons belonging to the office, or strangers.

Any persons?—I recollect that night Colonel Grant of the 15th dragoons came in.

When you made your communication to Mr. Beckett, did Mr. Beckett refer to the magistrates and take upon himself to give you the answer, or were the magistrates the principal persons conversing?—I think the magistrates were the principal persons conversing, but Mr. Beckett appeared to be perfectly of their opinion.

What was the termination of the conversation between you and Mr. Beckett that night as far as you can recollect, or what was the purport of the last thing said by Mr. Beckett to you that night?—To the best of my recollection, he urged me to undertake it with the force that he thought necessary.

Can you recollect what passed between Mr. Ryder and you at the House of Commons, during the short moment you saw Mr. Ryder?—Very little more than saying that Mr. Beckett was in the House I think.

What passed from you to him to induce that answer, "Mr. Beckett is in the House?"—Saying, I was going to his office, and wished to apply for assistance to put my warrant into execution.

Did you ever go to the secretary of state's office again after that second visit on the Friday night?—I did; the next time I communicated with Mr. Read, the magistrate, was on Mr. Clementson's obtaining entrance into sir F. Burdett's house, I rode on horseback down to the secretary of state's office, to tell him Mr. Clementson was gone in, and I hoped he would see sir F. Burdett, and that they should prepare for me an escort of cavalry in case I was so fortunate as to succeed in taking him into custody.

Whom did you see at that time?—Mr. Read.

Did you see Mr. Beckett at that time?—I think not.

Did you see Mr. Ryder at that time?—No; I was not three minutes there?

What answer did you obtain from Mr. Read on your application at that time?—Not a very satisfactory one; Mr. Read asked me if sir Francis was in custody? I said no, but I hoped he would be, and I wished the escort should be ready to go with us for that purpose. I had rode down to the secretary of state's office for the purpose of preparing them, that I hoped we should get up stairs as we had got into the house.

What was Mr. Read's answer?—That he thought it would be time enough when we had got him, or something of that sort.

Was That all that passed between you and Mr. Read at that time?—Yes, to the best of my recollection nothing more; I went back then to sir Francis's house, and not finding him, I went to Wimbledon.

Did you ask to see Mr. Beckett or Mr. Ryder at that time?—I do not recollect, but I think not.

At what time did you quit the secretary of state's office, as nearly as you can recollect?—About half past seven in the morning, I think.

When did you go to the secretary of state's office again?—Sometime on Saturday evening, but I forget when; I went for the purpose of arranging another plan for the next morning.

Was is by day light?—I believe it was about twelve o'clock at night or one in the morning.

Whom did you see at that time?—Mr. Read, Mr. Beckett, and I am not sure whether Mr. Graham was there or not.

Did you see Mr. Ryder?—No.

When were you summoned to attend the cabinet council?—Last night, about half after eight, I think, or between that and nine o'clock; I was not at home when the summons came to me; I went to the Gloucester Coffee-house for the purpose of relieving Mr. Clementson, who had been waiting near sir F. Burdett's house, and I got to the cabinet council about nine o'clock, I believe.

From the beginning of the period of which you have been speaking, namely, the delivery of the warrant by the Speaker, to your appearance before the cabinet council, did you see any other of his Majesty's ministers?—I saw Mr. Perceval; Mr. Clementson reported to me that Mr. Perceval wished to see me, for the purpose of having some conversation with me.

On what day?—On Saturday; the day I went to Wimbledon.

At what time?—Between five and six o'clock, I think about half past five.

What passed?—Mr. Perceval, on my coming into the room, said, "Well, Mr. Colman, have you executed your warrant?" I said I had not been so fortunate; I said I had got into sir F. Burdett's house that morning, but that I did not think my Warrant justified me in searching it.

This was on Saturday between five and six o'clock?—Yes.

What answer did Mr. Perceval make, or what further conversation passed be- tween you and him?—He asked me as to the general usage in such cases, if I had any precedents of general usage of executing warrants of this sort.

He asked you?—Yes; this conversation, was rather brought on by Mr. Perceval's thinking that the messenger should not have delivered the warrant to sir Francis Burdett, and I said that I believed there was no impropriety in it, for it was customary I fancied; the conversation between Mr. Perceval and myself was merely on his asking me as to precedents, and what view I had of the nature of my warrant; it was a very short conversation I had with him; I do not suppose I could have been in the room above ten minutes, or about a quarter of an hour, and I had no other conversation with him.

Was that the substance of all which passed between Mr. Perceval and you at that time?—I recollect Mr. Perceval advised me to take the Attorney General's opinion.

Did you, in consequence of that advice, submit a case to the Attorney General? —I did.

Who drew up that case?—Mr. Bramwell.

At what time did you refer that case to the Attorney General for his opinion?—About half past nine the same evening I went to the Temple with Mr. Clementson, about nine, or a little after nine o'clock on Saturday evening, with the warrant, and desired the attorney to get an opinion upon it as to the legality of my using force.

By the attorney, you mean the solicitor you employed?—Yes

At what time did you receive the Attorney General's opinion upon that case?—About half past seven, or eight o'clock.

On Sunday night?—Yes, not till near eight.

Have you that case and opinion by you?—I have.

Be so good as to produce it to the House.

[The Serjeant at Arms produced the warrant, and the Attorney General's opinion.]

—A case was brought to me, with the warrant written in the case, upon which I was desired to give an opinion: and when I read the warrant, found that instead of being a warrant to the Serjeant at Arms to take the body, it was a warrant to the lieutenant of the Tower to receive the body; and I was desired upon that to give an opinion whether the officer could take him? I said it was impossible that should be the warrant they were directed to execute; and after that they sent me a copy of the other warrant; as well as I can recollect, I wrote opposite to that part of the case which contained the warrant to the Lieutenant of the Tower, that afterwards the warrant to the Serjeant at Arms was produced to me.

, to the Attorney General.—At what time did you receive the amended copy of the case?—Late on Saturday night.

That containing the right warrant?—Yes: I was not at home when it was first brought.

Examination by Mr. Whitbread continued.

(To the Serjeant.)—Have you got the case now?—The case consisted of a copy of the warrant.

Was that the whole of the case?—There was no addition, but a query, Whether I could force the house.

The CASE, and OPINION of the Attorney General were read: viz.

Warrant.

Veneris, 6° die Aprilis, 1810.

"Whereas the House of Commons hath this day adjudged, that sir F. Burdett, bart., who has admitted that a letter signed "Francis Burdett," and a further part of a paper, intituled, "Argument," in Cobbett's Weekly Register of March 24th 1810, was printed by his authority, (which Letter and Argument the said House hath resolved to be a libellous and scandalous paper, reflecting on the just rights and privileges of the said House) has been thereby guilty of a breach of the privilege of the said House: And whereas the House of Commons hath thereupon ordered, That the said sir F. Burdett be for his said offence committed to his Majesty's Tower of London: These are therefore to require you forthwith to take into your custody the body of the said sir F. Burdett; and then forthwith to deliver him over into the custody of the Lieutenant of his Majesty's Tower of London—And all mayors, bailiffs, sheriffs, under sheriffs, constables and headboroughs, and" every other person or persons are hereby required to be aiding and assisting to you in the execution hereof.—For which this shall be your sufficient warrant. Given under my hand, the sixth day of April 1810.

CHA. ABBOT, Speaker."

To the Serjeant at Arms attending the House of Commons or his Deputy.

Query.

The serjeant at arms attending the House of Commons having in the execution of this warrant been resisted, and turned out of sir F. Burdett's private dwelling-house by force,

Your opinion is desired, Whether in the execution of this warrant he will be justified in breaking open the outer or any inner door of the private dwelling-house of sir F. Burdett, or of any other person in which there it reasonable cause to suspect he is concealed, for the purpose of apprehending him. And whether he may take to his assistance a sufficient civil or military force for that purpose, such force acting under the direction of a civil magistrate. And whether such proceedings will be justifiable during the night as well as in the day time?

Opinion.

"No instance is stated to me, and I presume that none is to be found, in which the outer door of a house has been broken open under the Speaker's warrant for the purpose of apprehending the person against whom such warrant issued then being therein. I must, therefore, form my opinion altogether upon cases which have, arisen upon the execution of writs or warrants issuing from other courts, and which seem to fall within the same principle.

"I find it laid down in Semayne's Case, 5 Co. 91, that where the king is a party, the sheriff may break open the defendant's house, either to arrest him or to do other execution of the King's process, if otherwise he cannot enter. So if the defendant be in the house of another man, the sheriff may do the same; but he cannot break into the house of the defendant in the execution of any process at the suit of an individual. This distinction proceeds, as I apprehend, upon the greater importance of enforcing the process of the crown for the public benefit, than that of individuals for the support of their private rights. Reasoning from hence, I should think that the Speaker's warrant, which had issued to apprehend a man under sentence of commitment for a breach of the privileges of the House of Commons, might be executed in the same manner with criminal process in the name of the king, inasmuch as those privileges were given to the House of Commons for the benefit of the public only; and the public are interested in the due support of them.—If the act had been done, and I were asked whether it could be defended, I should say that it could, but where it is previously known that the execution of the warrant will be resisted by force, and if death should ensue in such a conflict, the officer who executes the warrant would stand justified, or not, as the breaking of the house may be held lawful, or unlawful. I feel myself obliged to bring this under his notice, leaving him to judge for himself whether he will venture to act upon my opinion, which has no direct authority in point to support it, but rests upon reasoning from other cases, which appear to me to fall within the same principle. Should the officer resolve to break into the house; if it be found necessary, he must be careful first to signify the cause of his coming, and make request to open the doors, and not use any force until it appears that those within will not comply, and he should be assured that the party whom he seeks to apprehend is within the house. For the purpose of executing the warrant, he may take with him a sufficient force of such description as the nature of the case renders necessary. If he has reason to apprehend a degree of resistance, which can only be repelled by a military force, he may take such force with him; but in this case it will be prudent to take with him also a civil magistrate.

"I do not think it advisable to execute the warrant in the night.

"The officer should understand, that when sir F. Burdett has once been arrested, if he afterwards effects his escape or is rescued, his own house or the house of any other person into which he retreats, may be broken for the purpose of re-taking him.

V. GIBBS.

Lincoln's Inn, April 8th 1810."

When did you receive the summons to attend the cabinet council?—It was left at my house at half past 8 last night, I think.

At what time did you attend the cabinet council?—About ten o'clock last night.

Where?—At the secretary of state's office.

Which secretary of state's office?—Mr. Ryder's.

Who were present at that council?—Mr Perceval, the Attorney General, lord Bathurst, lord Westmoreland, lord Eldon, Mr. Dundas I believe, and I think, lord Camden.

Were those all the ministers present?—Lord Wellesley was there.

Was lord Liverpool also there?—Yes.

Mr. Ryder?—Yes, Mr. Ryder.

Lord Mulgrave?—And Lord Mulgrave.

Lord Harrowby?—Yes.

Do you recollect any other persons being present besides the ministers who have now been named, and the Attorney General?—No, I do not.

Was Mr. Beckett called in?—No.

Were the police magistrates whom you had before seen called in?—I cannot exactly state whether they were called in or not; they certainly were in the room where the council had been sitting. I remained some time in the other office, and then went in again; whether the cabinet council had broken up or not I cannot tell.

Were they present before the cabinet when you were yourself?—No.

What passed at that council?—I related in general terms the state that my business was in, and that I intended to proceed by force to^* sir F. Burdett's house, in consequence of the opinion I had received of the Attorney General, and generally as to the circumstances how far I thought it practicable, how far I thought it likely I should meet with sir F. Burdett in the house, and so on; how far I was likely to carry my object into effect.

Were you asked, whether you had received the Attorney Genaral's opinion?—To the best of my recollection I was; I either was asked it, or mentioned it myself.

How long were you in the council?—A very short time; a very few minutes.

Did you receive any directions from them how to proceed?—No.

Did you ask for any assistance, for the purpose of executing your warrant by force?—I observed, that I thought it necessary I should have a sufficient military escort: I believe I stated that, and also some civil assistance.

What answer was returned to you?—That I should have what I required.

Was any definitive arrangement made about the whole of your proceedings for the purpose of executing your warrant?—It was considered more an act of my own to put it into execution in the best way I could; there was no instruction given me.

Was that all that passed in the cabinet council while you were there?—Yes, I think it was.

Did you afterwards go to the secretary of state's office?—I went into the next room, and saw the police officers.

Had you any communication with Mr. Ryder, the secretary of state for the home department, personally, after you were dismissed from that council?—A very few words indeed passed between Mr. Ryder and myself, if any; I transacted the business of that office with Mr. Beckett.

^* Qy, enter.

Did any words pass between you and Mr. Ryder after that cabinet council was over?—He might have asked me a question of no importance, but I do not recollect any conversation; I do not believe a word did pass.

Did you receive any directions or instruction from Mr. Ryder personally?—Not the smallest.

Did you receive any directions or instruction from Mr. Ryder through Mr. Beckett?—No, none.

What was the subject of the conversation which passed between you and Mr. Beckett, after you were dismissed from the cabinet council?—I told him I had determined upon proceeding to sir F. Burdett's house next morning, and I put down upon paper the amount of the force I thought necessary.

That you delivered to him?—Yes, I did.

What reply did he make?—That I should have them; that he would order them.

Were they ready accordingly?—They were,

Have you at any time had any communication with any of his Majesty's principal secretaries of state upon the subject of this warrant, excepting those short communications which you have mentioned with Mr. Ryder, the one in the House of Commons, and the other in the street, and the other about which you are doubtful, after the cabinet council was over?—None.

Had you with any other of his Majesty's ministers, excepting the conversation you have related with Mr. Perceval?—No, none.

Examined by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Upon every application that you made to Mr. Beckett, were you not always told that you should have whatever force you thought necessary to assist you in the execution of your warrant, and were not you referred to the magistrates to apply to them for such force as you might require?—I frequently applied to the magistrates, and they told me they did not conceive a military force necessary for the putting my warrant into execution in the first instance, meaning, I believe, that they thought military assistance should not be afforded till blows had actually taken place, till the event had taken place; my opinion was it would be better to have it to prevent any accident happening, than to send for it when the battle had already begun.

Did not Mr. Beckett uniformly inform you you should have every assistance you required, and refer you to the magistrates to apply for such force as you might require?—Yes, but that was always subject to the magistrates making the objection stated, and I was on Saturday night on the point of leaving the House, and did actually leave the house because I would not proceed to carry my warrant into execution with means that I thought inadequate; I afterwards returned, and said I would undertake it rather than there should be more delay.

Am I to understand you that you wished the magistrates to furnish you with military force, in the first instance, to make, this arrest?—Yes, I did.

To go with the military to make the arrest, rather than with the civil magistrate?—Yes; and for this reason, that I thought there would be some resistance when I got into sir F. Burdett's house: and when he was put into the carriage, there being a very considerable number of people about the house, I thought he would be quite as likely to be rescued before they could send to the Horse Guards for assistance, as at any other time: I felt the necessity of it at the beginning; and I thought that when sir F. Burdett was put into the carriage, some cavalry should be at the sides of it, that there should not be a rescue in the first instance.

When was the first occasion of your applying to the secretary of state's office; was it before or after sir F. Burdett had told you he meant to resist the warrant?—Before: the first time I saw sir F. Burdett, when I came out of sir F. Burdett's house, I think there were three hundred people before it; when I first came down to the House to report to the Speaker that I had seen him; there was a very large mob before the door; I forget how many; if that mob had been there, I certainly could not have undertaken it without a military force I think.

You have stated that you saw Mr. Perceval on the Saturday afternoon; did you not tell Mr. Perceval at that time, that the warrant that had been given by the Speaker to you for the arrest of sir F. Burdett had been delivered by a messenger to sir F. Burdett, and had been left with him?—I did.

Did not Mr. Perceval express his surprize that when you had had an opportunity of seeing sir F. Burdett with the warrant, you did not actually arrest him?—He did

Do you recollect whether Mr. Perceval did not enquire what passed between the messenger and sir F. Burdett; whether the messenger had touched sir F. Burdett when he served him with the warrant?—I do recollect it.

Did not Mr. Perceval express his regret on finding that neither you nor the messenger had, upon either of those occasions actually touched him as your prisoner?—He did; I believe I replied, that I did not consider in serving a member of parliament with a warrant that form was necessary from me to him, but that the very shewing it, as I, believed was always customary, would be sufficient.

Did you express to Mr. Perceval what your intention was with respect to endeavouring to procure another warrant in consequence of having lost the former?—I believe I said I should procure another, which I did; there was another procured immediately.

You applied to the Speaker for another?—I did.

Do you recollect asking Mr. Perceval for his opinion and advice, whether or not you could legally break open the outer door of sir F. Burdett's house under the authority of the Speaker's warrant?—I rather I believe I did; I remember the Chancellor of the Exchequer did me the honour I think to give me his opinion; if I recollect right, the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to be of opinion, that having once entered the house, I might have gone up stairs and proceeded to search it.

Was not that in consequence of your having expressed to Mr. Perceval, that when you were in the house you did not feel yourself at liberty to search?—Certainly it was.

Did not Mr. Perceval state, that whatever question might be raised with respect to the outward door, there could be no doubt of the right to search any part of the house, and to break open any inner door when you were within it?—Yes, Mr. Perceval did. My doubt arose from having asked the Speaker, whether I could employ force upon my warrant, whether I could break open the door in case I could not enter it without; and his having replied, that he could not give me an opi- nion upon the subject, he really did not know; and I conceived that they were one and the same thing, being ignorant of the law, that breaking a door up-stairs might have been construed into the same sort of offence as breaking an outer door.

Do you recollect upon your asking Mr. Perceval for his opinion and advice as to breaking the outer door, that he stated to you, as far as he had an opinion of his own, that he thought you might break the outer door, but that knowing there were legal doubts entertained upon the subject, he could not undertake himself to advise you how to act upon that head?—I do recollect it.

Was it not then that Mr. Perceval asked you whether you had in your office, any record or any precedent from whence you were possessed of the decision of that question by what had been done before on any former occasion?—No, I think not; I think it was upon the messenger's question, upon whether a messenger was empowered to serve a warrant upon a member of Parliament, and I have since found precedents upon that subject.

Did not Mr. Perceval state to you that you had the duty to execute, and that if he was in your situation, and had any legal doubt as to the manner of executing it, he should feel himself bound to take the best legal advice upon the subject that he could?—Certainly he did.

Was it not upon that occasion that Mr. Perceval recommended you should take the advice of the Attorney General?—Yes.

With respect to your attendance at the cabinet council last night, are you sure of the time at which you attended it, was it not later than the time you have mentioned?—I think it might be.

Was it not between twelve and one?—It might have been between twelve and one.

Had you not been at the Secretary of State's office before in the afternoon, seen Mr. Beckett, and told him that you would return again after having consulted some friend as to the execution of your warrant?—I had.

When you attended the cabinet council, were you not asked what you intended to do with respect to the execution of the warrant, as it was important for his Majesty's Government to know what steps ought to be taken according to your determination?—I rather believe that was the first question that was asked me.

Upon your stating that your determina tion was in execution of your duty, to attempt to execute the warrant, whatever resistance might be opposed to you, were you not informed that every assistance you required, military or civil, should be furnished to you to effect your purpose?—I believe I have already stated that every assistance I required last night was promised me.

Were you not desired to retire and to consult the magistrates, to make your arrangements, and to require what force you thought necessary?—Yes, I was.

At what hour on Friday morning did you receive your warrant?—I think at 9; the House broke up about 8, and it was some time making out.

How came you not to proceed to execute it immediately?—I did; I went immediately upon receiving the warrant, as I have already stated, from the House to sir Francis Burdett's house, and, as I have already stated, did not find him at home.

You wrote him a letter?—I did.

How came you, intrusted with the execution of a warrant, to write a letter to the person upon whom you were to execute that warrant?—Because I wished to see the person as early as possible that I might appoint a time for his going to the Tower, and on not finding him at home, I thought it necessary to write to him, hoping to hear something of him.

When did you see him first?—On the same day.

At what hour?—About 4 o'clock, I think it was.

How came you not to take him when you saw him?—I have always considered that when a member of Parliament has been taken into custody (and I believe it has been always customary) there was a courtesy of behaviour between the Serjeant at Arms and a member of Parliament, that it was never customary to do more than to state to a gentleman that he was in custody, or to write him a letter; indeed I believe I can bring an instance where a member of Parliament was ordered to be taken into custody at Taunton in Somersetshire. A messenger was sent down to apprehend him, and a friend went in the chaise with him; I believe the messenger, through delicacy, was left six or seven miles from Taunton, and the friend went forward and brought the member with him; it was not considered that any thing else was necessary from precedent.

Was not that the case of a person taken into custody for not attending a call of the House?—I forget.

When you saw sir Francis Burdett on the Friday afternoon, was there any mob at sir Francis Burdett's house, or was there any thing that could have then prevented you, if you had chosen to execute your warrant, from executing it?—There was a considerable mob, and as I went alone, and quite without any assistance, I could not have taken sir Francis Burdett away, if the mob had chosen to resist.

When did you see sir Francis the second time?—On the same evening, as I have already stated, when the Speaker desired me to go back and put my warrant into execution.

Was there a mob then that would have made it imprudent, in your opinion, to carry your warrant into execution?—No doubt about it, and particularly as it was dusk, and no communication had been made with the Lord Mayor, I think it would have been extremely imprudent.

You saw the secretary of state that evening?—I did.

Did you inform the secretary of state, or any body at his office, that there was such a mob about sir Francis Burdett's house as was likely to prevent the execution of your warrant?—I stated to Mr. Beckett that there was a mob about sir Francis Burdett's house, and also, that no communication had been made with the Lord Mayor. I really believe I stated that then.

Did you at that time (Friday night) apply to the secretary of state's office for any assistance to carry your warrant into execution?—No, not that night, considering that as the Lord Mayor had not been communicated with, whatever force was granted to me, whether civil or military, must be left behind at the confines of the city of London.

How did you know that the Lord Mayor had not been communicated with?—Mr, Read the magistrate stated to me, upon my leaving the secretary of state's office, that there was that objection, that he thought it necessary to put me into possession of that objection. I believe Mr. Beckett went soon after, and had communication with the Lord Mayor; but I am not certain.

When you went to the secretary of state's office, was the want of communication with the Lord Mayor one of your reasons for not applying for assistance from the secretary of state's office—No; I do not know that it had occurred to me then.

You heard at the secretary of state's office, that no communication had been made to the Lord Mayor, and that that was a difficulty in your way?—I was told that by Mr. Read in the secretary of state's office, to the best of my recollection.

Do you know whether any communication was made to the Lord Mayor after that?—I myself went to the Lord Mayor, I went on Saturday night to arrange for Sunday morning; and Mr. Clementson went last night to arrange for magistrates to take us on this morning.

By whose direction did you or Mr. Clementson go to the Lord Mayor to make that arrangement?—I rather think that I went to the Lord Mayor upon its being told me that I must apply to the chief magistrate to furnish me with assistance.

Do I understand you right, that, being told at the secretary of state's office that no communication had been made to the Lord Mayor on the Saturday night, you went to the Lord Mayor yourself?—No; Mr. Read told me, no communication had been made on the Friday night. On the Saturday night I went to the Lord Mayor myself.

Do I understand you right; on Friday night Mr. Read told you at the secretary of state's office, that there was no communication made to the lord mayor, and in consequence of that, on the Saturday night you went to the lord mayor yourself?—Yes, meaning to carry my purpose into effect on Sunday, if possible.

When did you go to the secretary of state's office the second time?—I must beg leave to refer to the minutes;—I do not recollect at this moment.

Was it on Saturday or Sunday?—I went two or three times in a day, I think I may have gone, twice on Sunday; I went backward and forwards to communicate.

When did you tell the secretary of state, or any person in the office, that you required force to carry your warrant into execution?—On Friday evening, after I found that sir Francis Burdett meant to resist; on Friday evening, to be ready on Saturday morning.

When did you first state to the secretary of state's office that you required force to carry your warrant into execution?—The first time I went there, I believe.

On Friday evening?—Yes.

What answer did you get?—That I should have a proper force, a civil force; and when found necessary, a military one; but we differed as to the necessity.

Then one of the reasons that you had for not executing your purpose sooner was, that till this morning you had not a sufficient force, in your estimation, to carry your warrant into effect?—No, I cannot say that. I undertook it once, when I really thought that I ought to have had a military force; but I undertook it with constables only.

Examined by sir John Anstruther.

Had you at any time, till this morning, such a force as you thought yourself quite sufficient to execute your warrant?—No, never till this morning; never till this morning had I military force in the first instance, except that I think on Sunday morning, the day I knocked at the door and did not get entrance, there was a military force patrolling before the house to disperse the mob; I imagined then I should have them as an escort, if necessary, but that was the only time till last night that I had a carte blanche; that I had exactly what I required; that I named my whole force.

On Friday night you informed the secretary of state's office that you required force?—Yes.

Until this morning, you never had so great a force as you thought quite sufficient to carry your purpose into effect?—Never, with the exception of the cavalry which was patrolling, but they were not, granted to me.

I do not ask you as to troops patrolling the streets, but whether you had a sufficient force appointed to carry your warrant into execution?—No.

When did you see Mr. Perceval?—On Saturday afternoon.

Was it by your desire that you saw Mr. Perceval, or was it his desire to see you?—Mr. Perceval's desire to see me; Mr. Perceval signified to Mr. Clementson, the Deputy Serjeant at Arms, that he wished to have some conversation with me upon the subject of my warrant, and I attended him.

You saw the Speaker about nine o'clock on Friday evening, when you first informed him of resistance?—It was after I had seen sir Francis Burdett for the second time, which was on Friday evening about nine o'clock.

When you saw Mr. Perceval, did you inform Mr. Perceval, as you have stated here, that the Speaker had told you he did not know whether you might break open the door for the purpose of entering the house?—Yes, I did.

Are you quite sure the Speaker informed you of any such thing?—The Speaker, with his usual kindness, gave me his opinion upon the question I asked him, in that can did fair way that he does upon all occasions.

Are you quite sure that the Speaker said to you, he did not know whether you could break open the door or not?

.—If the Serjeant has any doubt upon this point, and one or two other points, I would beg to state to the House the recollection I have upon the subject. In the early part of his evidence, the Serjeant did appear to intimate, that he had informed me that resistance was to be expected from sir Francis Burdett, when he saw me here at the House, and the House was sitting; I wish the Serjeant to recollect, whether when he came to me, the House then sitting and I in my private room, and when I asked him whether he had brought the receipt of the lieutenant of the Tower for his prisoner, he did not at that time mention, that on the contrary, it was then settled between him and sir Francis Burdett that he should go the following day?—Yes.

.—Did you not afterwards see me between nine and ten o'clock at night, after you had seen sir Francis Burdett the second time, and after you had read the warrant to him, and after sir Francis Burdett had answered that he should resist that warrant?—Yes.

.—Recollecting these two conversations with me, at what time do you think it was that you first informed me of sir Francis Burdett's intention to resist the warrant?—The last.

.—And not the first?—And not the first undoubtedly.

.—So that the first intimation from you to me of the intention of sir Francis Burdett to resist the warrant, did not come to me till between nine and ten on Friday night?—No.

.—Upon the other point upon which the Serjeant has been asked, I wish to state to the House correctly what the conversation was that passed, and the opinion which he appears to have reported to the chancellor of the exchequer. The Serjeant came to me at eleven at night, after I had received sir Francis Burdett's letter; he said he had seen the magistrates at the secretary of state's office, and the magistrates there entertained great doubts whether they could break open an outer door, and, as I understood the Serjeant refused to proceed to that execution of the warrant which should require an outer door to be broken. The Serjeant applied to me for my direction: Upon that occasion, as upon all others, I thought it my duty to yield the Serjeant all the information in my power, but never to give him orders or directions as to the specific mode ay which he was to carry his warrant into execution.

Serjeant.—That is perfectly correct.

.—In my desire to give to the Serjeant all the assistance I could, I stated to him that I really did not know of any parliamentary instance upon this point, of breaking outer doors; but I added, that I concluded the magistrates would execute this to at least the same extent as they would any process for criminal contempt of any inferior court; that they must be in the habit of directing or executing that process, and I conceived they would follow that line. This I believe was the substance of the conversation that took place upon the occasion. In the conversation with the Serjeant in my room, after my remonstrance for his not having executed his warrant, he may recollect that I told him he should not have lost sight of his prisoner when he once saw him, and that (as indeed I had informed him in the morning) if aid was wanted he might have it at the secretary of state's office; that I had found it my duty to enquire what aid would be given to my warrant; and that I had been told aid would be given there if applied for.

Examination continued by sir John Anstruther.

(To the Serjeant.)—Who was it first suggested to you any doubt about executing the Speaker's warrant by force?—I had a conversation with Mr. Read the magistrate about it, but I do not recollect who suggested it to me first.

Was it suggested to you at the secretary of state's office?—No, I think not.

Did you see Mr. Read any where but at the secretary of state's office?—Never any where else except meeting him in the street; I never did business with him but at the secretary of state's office.

Was it Mr. Read who suggested it to you?—To the best of my recollection it was; but I am not positive.

Was the idea of taking the opinion of the Attorney General upon the subject ever suggested to you till it was suggested to you by Mr. Perceval?—Never, I believe.

Would you have delayed the execution of your warrant if you had had sufficient force, till you had taken a legal opinion, if it had not been suggested to you?—I should have delayed it, I think.

When you executed the warrant this morning, do you know who were in the house at the time that warrant was executed?—I do not know; I believed sir F. Burdett to be in the house.

Whom did you see when you went there?—Sir F. Burdett and his family.

Any body else?—There were two ladies, sir F. Burdett's brother, and some other gentleman; I do not know who he was.

Did you know the other gentleman?—No, I did not know any gentleman personally but sir F. Burdett and his brother.

When you first applied to Mr. Beckett for assistance to carry your warrant into execution, what answer did you receive?—That I should have force; that he would give it me.

Did not Mr. Beckett say that the magistrates were the proper persons to apply to, and that you would find them in a room below?—I think he referred me to the magistrates; at the same time I believe he said that he would afford me any force I thought necessary; we differed as to the military force, when we differed in opinion.

Mr. Beckett introduced you to the two magistrates sitting in a room below?—Yes, he did.

Upon application to those magistrates for force to carry the warrant into execution, were any and what doubts expressed as to the propriety of their granting it?—No doubts at all; they were ready and willing to grant it in the way they thought Sufficient; but we differed upon the nature of the force.

Was it not suggested by those magistrates, that to entitle yourself to assistance from them, you must state a case of resistance?—Yes.

Were you not required to make affidavit to some overt act of resistance, before they would feel themselves warranted to grant that force?—Mr. Read did state that it was necessary for me to make an affidavit of the conversation that passed between sir F. Burdett and myself as to his resistance, previous to his granting me a force.

Upon statement of that conversation, did Mr. Read acknowledge himself ready to give you any force, and of what nature? Mr. Read conceived at first it was necessary I should make an affidavit; I rather objected to it at first; afterwards I told him I had no objection to swear to any thing I had stated, and that I had no objection to make an affidavit; but he still objected to a military force unless in case of resistance.

Did not Mr. Read grant you the civil force that you required both on Saturday and Sunday?—Yes.

Was it suggested to you, by either of those magistrates, that having been in the presence of sir F. Burdett, his not being in your custody had placed him in the situation of an escape?—I think he stated it might be liable to that imputation.

Do I understand you that the magistrates were ready to grant you any extent of civil power that you should require then upon the statement you made, and that they were further ready to give you the assistance of the military in case of your making affidavit of some overt act of resistance, and of the incompetency of the civil power to do the work?—Most certainly.

In your interview with Mr. Perceval on Saturday, did you complain of the force you thought requisite not having been afforded to you?—No, I do not recollect that I did.

When was the first time that you applied at the secretary of state's office for any assistance, was it not the Friday evening?—Yes, it was.

Were not you then told by Mr. Beckett that you should have any civil aid that was necessary, and such military aid as the magistrates might think was requisite to assist them in the execution of their civil office?—Most certainly.

Were not you referred to the magistrates to furnish you with the civil aid, and to take their judǵment whether that civil aid was sufficient without the aid of the military, and to take the military if they thought the civil insufficient?—No doubt of it, but I had my own opinion upon it, which differed very much from theirs. I did not myself think that sufficient.

By "theirs," do not you mean the magistrates?—The magistrates.

Did not you wish to have the military in the first instance for the purpose of executing the warrant?—Not in the first instance, when I went out of the House of Commons to call at sir F. Burdett's.

In the first instance, after you had seen sir F. Burdett?—In the first instance, after I had seen a mob at sir F. Burdett's house, I did think military assistance was absolutely necessary.

Did not the magistrates express a disinclination to employ the military, until they were convinced that a civil force was insufficient?—Yes, but I differed with them.

By Lord Ossulston.

Did not you conceive, that though you were to be furnished by the secretary of state with a military force for the execution of the warrant, the responsibility of the execution would fall upon yourself; and that therefore, if death should ensue, and the warrant should be found to be illegal, you might become subject to an indictment for murder?—I certainly considered that I was the responsible person in executing, that warrant.

Did you not think from the opinion given you by the attorney general, and from the communication you had with his Majesty's ministers, and also with the Speaker, that that responsibility was of a very serious nature?—I certainly thought that it was, but I executed it upon the opinion given me by the attorney general, and wishing to carry my purpose into effect.

By Mr. H. Sumner.

After your last interview with the cabinet council, did you conceive you had any other, guide than your own discretion in acting upon the opinion of the attorney general?—No, none, that I acted quite upon my own responsibility.

By Mr. Adam.

In the course of your proceeding upon this warrant, did you at any time make application to the sheriff of Middlesex?—I did yesterday shew my warrant to the sheriff of Middlesex, sheriffs Wood and Atkins; they came opposite sir F. Burdett's house to quell the mob; and at the Gloucester coffee-house, where they had a room, I shewed them my warrant, and told them I should call upon them for any assistance I might require to execute my warrant, in case sir F. Burdett came out.

Were both the Sheriffs there?—Yes; both Mr. Sheriff Wood and Mr. Sheriff Atkins.

What did they say upon your shewing them the warrant, and saying you should ask for their assistance?—They said, in the first instance, they would afford me any assistance: it was on the supposition that sir F. Burdett came out of the house that, I asked it, and being on the spot, I thought it proper to shew them my warrant, and they said they would do every thing in their power.

They said they would give you assistance if it was required?—They seemed to be most completely disposed to do every thing that was most kind by me.

In point of fact, did not Mr. Read inform you, that on Saturday morning he had applied for a captain's guard to be ready to escort the prisoner in case of caption, and did you not decline that captain's guard, saying, sir F. Burdett was not at home?—Yes; but I never considered a guard being ready for me as sufficient, because I should have had to have sent for it when the evil had begun.

Did you not on Sunday morning pass Mr. Read on horseback in the character of a magistrate attending the captain's guard, knowing that that captain's guard was for the purpose of escorting sir F. Burdett, when he should become a prisoner?—I have already stated, that on Sunday morning I found a party of the horse guards, with Mr. Read at their head, in front of sir F. Burdett's house, and I was rather surprised to see them, for when Mr. Read and I parted on Saturday night, it was only settled that they should be in readiness as before: I believe I have already stated, that I make no doubt that if sir F. Burdett had been captured, that party would have been ordered to escort him, which was exactly what I wished, to have them before the door ready to go, and not to have to send for them when the evil had begun.

You having expressed surprize at seeing them, did not Mr. Read, throughout the whole transaction, express his readiness and wish to support you, but his absolute inability to support you with a military force, consistently with the duties of his office, till some overt act of resistance was made?—Yes; I have said so at all times, but I thought they ought to be there before the necessity began.

In the interview you had with the Under Secretary of State on Friday evening, did not he state his opinion that you had been extremely backward in the execution of your duty, and that you would therefore have rendered yourself responsible for all consequences?—I think he did; I believe I answered, that I thought I should bear myself out, and that I had done my best, or something to that effect.

By Mr. Stephen.

When you first saw sir F. Burdett, he did not intimate any intention to resist?—None.

Did he object to the legality of the warrant?—He did not; all that passed was, that he said he should write a letter to the Speaker, and he would be glad to receive me the next day: he said, "I have already written to you, to say I shall be glad to receive you to-morrow at eleven o'clock;" and he merely said, that he should write a letter to the Speaker.

Had not you previously asked him to appoint a time for going with you to the Tower in the execution of the warrant?—Yes, what would be the most convenient time to him.

Did you not understand that appointment to be for the purpose of going with him to the Tower?—No doubt about it.

Had you any expectation, that, having gone at that hour, you were to meet any resistance?—Not from sir F. Burdett, certainly; there might have been from the mob in the street; I never dreamt of it from sir F. Burdett.

Was not the expectation of sir F. Burdett complying with the warrant, the reason you did not then take him into custody?—I was under the impression that he would go quietly with me to the Tower the next day.

Do you possess a copy of the letter you wrote to sir F. Burdett?—I do.

The same was then delivered in, together with sir F. Burdett's answer, and are as follow:

"24, Lower Brook-Street Grosvenor-square, 6th April 1810."

"Sir; Having received a warrant from the House of Commons, and an order from the Speaker, to wait on you to convey you to the Tower; I called at your house this morning at nine o'clock, and was informed that you were not at home—I shall be much obliged to you, to let me know when I can see you, that in doing my duty as Serjeant at Arms, I may not be deficient in paying every proper attention and respect to you; wishing to consult your convenience as to the time and mode of your removal. I have, &. FRANCIS J. COLMAN, Sir F. Burdett, bart. Serj. at Arms."

"Piccadilly, April 6, 1810."

"Sir; I have just received your polite letter, and shall be at home to receive you at twelve o'clock to-morrow. Your's, &c.

FRANCIS BURDETT."

"F. J. Colman, esq."

What was the precise military force, in point of number, which you conceived to be necessary to enable you to perform your duty?—That would depend very much upon the state of the town, as to the number of the mob; and if the town was quiet, I should have wanted no escor at all perhaps, but it depended upon the state of the town as to tumult, and what the number of men assembled were at the moment.

What was the first demand made by you for a military force?—When I intended to take sir Francis Burdett to the Tower, on the Friday.

On which day, at what time, and to what person, did you make your first demand for a military force?—On Friday afternoon?

What was the force you then demanded?—I do not recollect; I do not know that I named any number.

At any subsequent time, did you make a demand for a specific military force?—Last night I was asked what force I required, and I stated 300 infantry and 500 cavalry; I thought it better to have too large than too small a force, as I thought the larger my force was, the less likely it was to meet with resistance, and that there would be less probability of bloodshed.

You did not demand, till last night, that force which you have stated to be necessary for carrying into execution your warrant this day?—I am not certain whether I stated any particular number at any time before.

Did you, on any of the occasions when you were in the secretary of state's department, or in communication with Mr. Beckett, demand an audience of Mr. Ryder, or desire to see Mr. Ryder?—Never.

By the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

On the Friday evening, when you asked for a military force first, was it not on that occasion Mr. Read asked you whether you had made any arrangement with the Lord Mayor, as to the attendance of a magistrate to escort you into the city?—I believe it was, and I answered that I had not.

Did he not then state to you, that without a magistrate of the city attending to meet you, the military might probably object to go, and the magistrate that attended you to the city could no longer act in that character?—Yes; and I also understood that in the course of the same night the Lord Mayor rather made an objection to admitting the cavalry into the city, which objection he afterwards did away.

Did not Mr. Read state to you, that he could not act as a magistrate beyond the confines of his own jurisdiction?—No doubt of it.

Did he not tell you, that in his opinion, it would be necessary to have a magistrate to attend the military force that attended you?—No doubt about it.

By Sir Charles Burrell,

You stated, that in the first instance the sheriffs offered you every assistance; did you from that, wish the House to understand that in the second instance they did not?—No, it was merely a civil answer, a general disposition to shew attention to me and to serve me.

Was there any difference or distinction in the line of conduct the two sheriffs took in proffering such assistance as you might want; was one more ready than the other to proffer that assistance, or was there any difference in their line of conduct?—They were at dinner; there was some conversation respecting my carrying my warrant into effect, there was no difference in the disposition they shewed me, but I had asked them for nothing particular.

By Sir Charles Price.

In your communication with the Lord Mayor, what answer did you receive from him respecting the assistance he would grant?—I received every attention from my Lord Mayor; he told me that his jurisdiction, the city, I should find perfectly quiet when I came I pressed him to allow the cavalry I took with me from hence to pass through the city, about which there had been some little doubt at first, and he was obliging enough to wink at it; in short, to afford me every assistance I could expect.

You had no doubt in your own mind you should receive every assistance from the Lord Mayor?—No, on the contrary, there was every disposition shewn.

By Admiral Markham.

Did you consider it your business, or that of his Majesty's government, to make an arrangement with the Lord Mayor?—I believe the under secretary had communicated with the Lord Mayor, he communicated with somebody on the subject of the magistrates meeting me.

Were you left to make the arrangements with the Lord Mayor?—I do not know that any body, except myself and my deputy, had any communication with the Lord Mayor on the subject; I either went myself or sent my deputy.

By Mr. Parnell.

In the interview you had with sir Francis Burdett on Friday, did he tell you he would go with you on Saturday at eleven o'clock to the Tower, without making resistance?—No; all that passed between sir Francis Burdett and myself was, "I shall write a letter to the Speaker, and I "shall be ready to receive you to-morrow "at eleven o'clock."

By Sir George Hill.

From sir Francis Burdett's conduct to you upon that occasion, coupled with the answer which you received to your note from sir Francis Burdett, did you not expect things to have been so conducted upon the following morning, that he would go with you to the Tower without resistance?—Yes; I thought so certainly at that time.

[Then the Serjeant was directed to retire from the bar, and he retired accordingly.]

then begged leave to ask the Attorney General, whether he had not been consulted upon the warrant previous to the case being laid before him by the Serjeant at Arms?

replied, that he had been sent for to the Council, and had been consulted in the capacity of Attorney General. If the House thought it fit that he should state what was asked of him on that occasion, he had no personal objection.

thought the question ought to be answered.

doubted very much whether the principle should be admitted, of requiring from one of the law officers of the crown an account of what passed at the council at which he was required to attend. It must be recollected that this was not a grave enquiry respecting the conduct of his Majesty's ministers; but the examination of the Attorney General was only incidental to an examination of the Serjeant at Arms, who was giving an account at the bar of his manner of executing a duty imposed upon him. He was so convinced that secrecy was necessary for confidence, that he did not like to establish such a precedent as this, although he did not think the question asked was subject to any other material objection.

conceived it of very great importance that the House should have an answer to the question which he asked, and which appeared to him to affect very seriously his Majesty's ministers. Every body knew and greatly lamented that from Friday morning to the present day this great metropolis had been a scene of the utmost tumult and confusion, and that the most calamitous events had taken place. Many persons (he did not know how many) had been slain. The argument which he wished to submit to the House was this: until Friday morning there was no question at all about the value of the Speaker's warrant, and yet the House were now informed, that although that warrant had been signed on Friday morning, the Serjeant at Arms was advised by ministers on Saturday evening to lay a case before the Attorney General, who returned his opinion on the case on Sunday evening. It was, therefore, necessary that the House and the country should know how it happened, that it should be necessary to take the Attorney-General's opinion on the Saturday, upon a subject that there was no question of on Friday.

said, that there never had been any doubt or question about the validity of the Speaker's warrant. The only question was, whether in the execution of this warrant the Serjeant had any right to break an outer-door.

said, that he had not used the word validity. He had said the value of it, which, in common language, implied the extent of its operation.

said, that it appeared to him a novel and extraordinary doctrine for gentlemen on the other side of the House to maintain, that it was the business of government to controul and direct the Serjeant at Arms in the execution of his duty. He appealed to the Chair, whether it was not irregular to put questions to members similar to that which was now put to the Attorney-General.

said, that it certainly was not regular to examine members, unless when the House were on an enquiry.

afterwards withdrew his objection, and the question was suffered to be put; viz.

Were you consulted upon the subject of the Speaker's Warrant, as directed against sir Francis Burdett, at any time previously to the case being submitted to you upon the part of the serjeant at arms?—I was never consulted upon the legality of the warrant, but I was consulted upon the question, whether it could be executed by breaking the outer door of sir Francis Burdett's house.

When, and by whom?—On the Saturday morning I was desired to attend the council, and I did attend it; I cannot charge my recollection with the time, I can recollect, from the effects of having sat up so late the preceding night, it was extremely late; I should think it was about one or two o'clock, but I will not pretend to speak to the time. I was asked at the council what I thought of the legality of so executing the warrant, I mean, by breaking the outer door of the house; it was a new question; it arose upon the execution of a warrant, with the mode of executing which I was in practice unacquainted. No instance could be stated to me in which such a warrant had been executed by breaking the outer door of the house; I could therefore only reason from analogy to other cases in the law, which I had in my recollection. The tendency of my opinion certainly then was, that it might be so executed; that is, that the Serjeant had a right, having demanded entrance, and being refused, and having stated the ground upon which he demanded entrance, namely, to execute such a warrant, that he would be justified in breaking the outer door of the house. I stated at the same time that it was a question new, for the reasons I have stated, and that I could not give a decided opinion; but that as far as my opinion went, which was the result of reasoning and not of any authority upon the particular point, I thought it might be so executed.

Was that all that passed at that Council upon the subject of the Speaker's warrant?—That was the substance of what passed; I think I also stated the consequence that might arise to the Serjeant in so executing this warrant, if he were not justified in law; that if any conflict should take place, and a death should ensue (pretty much in the terms I afterwards used in my Opinion) he would or would not be justified, as that mode of executing the warrant might be deemed legal or illegal; and I think I stated likewise, that if any thing fatal were to happen to himself, and it should be held that his mode of executing the warrant was illegal, no person resisting such an execution of the warrant would be criminally answerable for that circumstance.

moved, that the messenger who accompanied the Serjeant at Arms to sir F. Burdett's house on Friday night, should be called in and examined.

, in rising to second this motion, took occasion to observe, that the inquiry should take a wider range than gentlemen appeared to have in contemplation. The object of all the interrogatories seemed to be to criminate the Serjeant at Arms, the ministers, or the prisoners, and for this purpose only one witness was examined. Nothing had as yet been gone into to affect the criminality of the prisoner, or to expose any of his secret advisers, whether members of that House or not. (A loud cry of name, name!) He only meant to suggest the propriety of extending inquiry upon this subject, in Order to ascertain whether any member of that House, or who had recently advised sir F. Burdett to resist the authority of the Speaker's warrant. It appeared to him that the House had at least as much right to call upon any member to violate his confidential counsels with sir F. Burdett, as it had to call upon the law officer of the crown to violate his consultations with the king's cabinet.

rose to order. He Conceived the hon. member to be quite wandering from the question properly before the house.

also rose to order; but

interposed and expressed his opinion, that the hon. member was not out of order; as he was only adducing arguments to fortify the proposition before the House for further inquiry.

resumed and observed, that he was not disposed to believe that there were any of the secret advisers of sir F. Burdett's conduct among the members of that House. The declaration indeed, of one hon. and learned member (sir S. Romilly) this night, whom the newspapers set down among the advisers of air Burdett, justified this disbelief. But still he must say, if it appeared that there were among the members of that House any secret advisers of the hon. baronet, he saw nothing inconsistent or inappropriate to the purposes of this inquiry, to call upon such gentlemen for an explanation of their advice and motives.

begged to submit a few observations upon the insinuation of the hon. gent. which was certainly by no means dark or difficult to be understood. The hon. gent, concluded, he must say, not very liberally, that any private advice given to sir F. Burdett, on his late proceedings, was hid. Now he happened to have his own name set down in the newspapers, not as among the advisers, but as among the visitors of sir F. Burdett; and he hoped it would not be deemed less honourable in him to avow, that he was one of the visitors of the hon. baronet, than it was in his learned friend near him (sir S. Romilly), to correct the erroneous mention of his name. He had certainly never visited sir F. Burdett before, nor ever dined at his house, but once some years ago. But on Saturday evening last he was induced to visit the hon. baronet, in company with another member of that House, who was better acquainted with the hon. baronet, and he did state such conderations to the hon. baronet as he thought would have had an influence upon his mind. He mentioned hypothetically what he himself would have done under similar circumstances. In order to avert the consequence likely to follow to the king's subjects, he discussed the line of conduct which he himself would have thought it advisable to pursue, even acting upon the hon. baronet's own principles, and he must say, that he was received with the utmost possible attention; that the hon. baronet very politely attended to every observation he made. The advice which he offered to the hon. baronet was not secret, but in the open day; and he would appeal to the candour of the House, whether, if even secret, it was therefore to be deemed bad. He felt that he had done his duty in calling upon the hon. baronet, and offering the advice, he did. In making that call he was acting in compliance with the earnest solicitations of a friend, and he certainly felt that far from doing evil, he was likely to promote what he conceived a very desirable good.

disclaimed any personal allusion. His observation being confined to an if, relative to any members of that House being among the secret advisers of sir F. Burdett—[A general cry on the opposite benches of name! name!]

said, that whatever were the professions of the hon. gent., there could be little doubt that the manner and deportment of that hon. gent. in the course of his speech was most unfortunate, if they were meant to second the construction which, that gentleman wished to have put upon his Words. He (Mr. Ponsonby) would confidently appeal to the House, and ask, if there was one more within its walls, who would take upon him to declare upon his honour that he did not believe that the hon. gent, meant to affix a charge of giving secret and bad advice to sir F. Burdett, upon some member of that House. And what could have been meant by such an imputation? He did not hesitate to say, that it was an imputation that could not be too speedily retracted. By what privilege did that gentleman assume to himself the right of throwing out at random groundless aspersions against the motives of other members, in what they believed to be the conscientious discharge of their duty? When the hon. gent. made the charge he did, he was called upon to name the objects of his charge. He did not do so, and in not doing so, the hon. gent. involved himself in the embarrassment, either of making charges which he could not, or would not, support. He would advise that hon. gent. to be more cautious for the future, and not to deal out conjectural invective against men as undeserving of such attacks as any that could make them.

stated, that the least part of the motives which then influenced him to rise, was that of vindicating his Majesty's ministers from the attack that had been made upon them. His principal object was, rather to vindicate the privileges of that House, which had been so grossly trampled upon. The Serjeant at Arms had been described as the agent of ministers. How did that appear? Not surely in the obedience of that officer to the suggestions of the ministers. He (Mr. Ryder) admitted, that his situation, for the last four days at least, was a most responsible situation; responsible as that situation was, and humbly calculated as he was to fulfil its duties, still he would contend for it that there was no deficiency on the part of the ministers. Much had been said of what the government had omitted to do; but he would contend for it, that had the government not done what it had done, the mischief might have been incalculably greater. But ministers had been asked why they did not do on Friday what had been at length done on the Monday following? In answer to that question he would say, that it was not the part of the executive government to take from the House of Commons the right of enforcing its own order. As far as the executive power was concerned in assisting in carrying into effect a legal warrant, so far the aid of the executive power was not wanting. The civil and military power had been called forth, and where, he would ask, was the object in visiting upon ministers undefined and ill supported accusations of not maintaining the public peace? What effect had such charges? Had not some of the speeches they had heard a tendency to excite popular irritation, and give rise to dissatisfaction.

rose to order, and complained of charges having been made against the motives of certain members who had spoken, by complaining of the tendency of their speeches, which he presumed to be disorderly.

said, that he conceived it to be within the prescribed limits of debate for any hon. member to speak to the tendency (in his judgment) of any speech he had heard, and in that sense he concluded the honourable member to be in order.

then proceeded to restate his assertion, and concluded by expressing his wish that all the proceedings of government on this, momentous business were in detail before the House.

stated that a right hon. friend of his had been charged with great warmth upon this subject. He confessed that it was not one upon which he could speak very coolly, when he recollected that, owing to a remissness in some quarter or another, the lives of his wife and children had been for a long time endangered. He asked if there was a man who doubted that this business had been brought upon the House by ministers, and if their official influence had not been the means of procuring the decision that had been ultimately determined on. (Order!) He was not out of order; he spoke of their influence in that House as men of talents and responsibility. He then adverted to the evidence of the Serjeant, and appealed to the House, if it did appear from that evidence that ministers had not taken any steps whatever to provide against consequences, which might have been so easily foreseen. The opinion of the Attorney-general was not taken until late on Saturday; why was not that opinion taken on Friday morning, and forthwith acted upon. If it had been taken and acted upon, what might it not have saved—the confusion of two days, the lives of some of the King's subjects; he censured the sort of advice given to the Serjeant by the ministers, it amounted to this—"Go and execute your warrant, you shall have all possible aid both civil and military—but then we can't say how far you may lawfully go—never mind, however, do your duty, and' tis no matter whether in the event you are hanged or not for the attempt."

expresed his sincere regret for the violence done to sir John Anstruther's house, but contended for it, that if the executive had gone farther, they would have been as loudly censured as they now were for what they had omitted to do. He denied that ministers had any reason to anticipate, and to provide against the unexpected and unprecedented resistance on the part of sir F. Burdett.

contended that ministers were bound to provide against all consequences resulting from a measure which they had taken such pains to prevail upon the House to adopt.

vindicated the conduct of ministers against the charge of remissness. The Serjeant at arms, to whom, however, he wished to impute nothing which the facts of the case did not substantiate, had twice through himself, and once by means of his deputy, the opportunity of taking sir Francis into custody, if he had availed himself of those advantages. In either case, any resistance afterwards made by sir Francis or his adherents, must have been construed into a rescue, which would have fully warranted the breaking into his house.

argued that ministers should have been aware of the validity of the warrant, and of the mode of executing it, before they proposed that such a measure should be adopted by the house.

, from the observations which he himself had been enabled to make, was of opinion that all the consequences resulting from the measure which had been adopted, were imputable to ministers.

The motion for calling in the messenger was then withdrawn.—Mr. Whitbread moved that the papers and evidence before the House be printed.—The Solicitor General for Scotland wished that a letter from the Serjeant to sir F. Burdett, and his answer thereto, not at present before the House, should be presented, and printed along with the evidence now adduced.—Ordered.