took occasion to notice a subject to which he hoped gentlemen would turn their attention, in order to arrange by the next sessions some plan for the better economy and management of Private Bills. It appeared that bills of this description were sometimes three months before the House, during which the parties bringing them forward were incurring expence by keeping their witnesses in town, whilst those who meant to oppose them declined to present any petition until within a few days of the day fixed for bringing up the reports. Thus the parties applying were subjected to great embarrassment and expence, to which they ought not to be liable. With a view, therefore, to guard against such inconveniencies, which were not at all necessary to any just end, it might be proper that petitioners should be called Upon to come forward within a certain time, at least before the day finally fixed for bringing up the reports. The motion before the House was perfectly in order, but he hoped the suggestions he had felt it his duty to throw out, would excite attention, and that some provision would be made against the evil referred to.

The motion was agreed to.

, seeing the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, begged to observe, that having before Easter given notice of a motion, with a view of correcting certain abuses and vexations in the mode of collecting the Assessed Taxes, he felt it incumbent upon him to ask the right hon. gent, whether it was his intention to bring forward a bill upon the subject, within such a time as would in all probability secure its passing into a law in the course of the present session.

observed that the subject was one which had occupied his attention ever since the hon. gent. had communicated with him upon it, and that he had a bill in preparation, which he trusted he should be able to produce to the House very shortly, and which he hoped would meet the objects which the hon. gent. had in contemplation.

observed that he had given notice before the holidays, of its being his intention to submit at an early period after the recess, a motion to the House upon the subject of the property duty laws. Such continued to be his intention; but as it would be unbecoming in him to occupy unnecessarily any portion of the time of the House; and as the legislative regulations which it was in his contemplation to submit to parliament might be offered when the bill of the right hon. gent. upon the subject of the Assessed Taxes, just mentioned, should be before the House, he should abstain at present from making any distinct proposition upon the subject; reserving to himself, however, at the same time, the power, if the bill of the right hon. gent. should be delayed to such a period of the session, as to make it improbable that his regulations would be discussed this year, to bring forward, by a separate motion, such propositions as the importance of the subject to the public might appear to him to require.

, after alluding to the notice of his right hon. friend (Mr. Canning) that he would early after the recess move for the production of papers upon the subject of Spain, if those upon the table should not answer his purpose; took occasion to move for copies of the correspondence already laid before the other House of Parliament, to which he did not understand that there was any objection, and therefore he would move without notice. In addition to those papers he would also move for copies of the dispatches addressed to lord Wellesley upon recalling him from his mission to Spain, together with that noble lord's answer, and also his address to the Spanish Junta upon that occasion.

said, that it was through inadvertency alone that the papers alluded to were not now before the House, but they speedily would, and therefore he apprehended there was no occasion for any motion upon the subject. As to the other motions mentioned by the right hon. gent. he took leave to suggest the propriety of a notice.

accordingly gave notice of a motion for the day upon which his right hon. friend (Mr. Canning) had announced his intention of bringing forward a motion upon the same subject.

adverting to a notice which he had some time since given upon the subject of the negotiation with regard to the Exchange of Prisoners, said that understanding this negotiation to be now extremely active, he did not wish to interfere by any motion lest it should affect its progress; and hoping, that its success would take away the grounds of his intended motion.

rose pursuant to notice, to move for information which he thought it extremely desirable to have laid before that House, if it were only with a view to ascertain, if he might so express himself, the state of the moral health of the country. But it was peculiarly expedient to know the result of the experiments made by the enactment of certain penal laws—to know, for instance whether it was necessary that capital punishments should attach to particular offences. Upon a recent discussion he observed that gentlemen oh both sides of the question could only deal in presumption as to the number of persons convicted of certain offences, who had really suffered the sentence of the law; which presumption could, of course, be no guide for forming a correct judgment. It was, therefore, his object to get at the fact. From the returns in secretary of state's office no certain data could be collected upon this subject, for many material points were not mentioned in those returns. He was aware that the information he sought for could not be obtained without difficulty. But that difficulty could, he had no doubt, he got over, as there were only six persons in England, namely the clerks of assize, and four in Wales, to whom it would be necessary to make application upon the subject. Independently of the value of the information which his motions had in view to the general police of the country, which value indeed was such, that in his opinion a regular register should be established for public reference of committals, convictions and executions throughout the kingdom, he confessed that he was induced to bring forward these motions with a view to the renewal, next session, of the proposition which had been lately rejected by so small a majority. After deploring the thin attendance of the House upon that occasion which referred to the fate of 7 or 800 persons, who were annually placed by the existing laws at the discretion of the judges, and expressing his surprize that all the gentlemen in the ministerial bench should have so completely concurred in opposing his motion, although it had no connection with any party measure, being purely of a speculative nature—the learned gentleman concluded with submitting his motion, namely, for a return of the number of persons committed throughout England and Wales, in the years 1805-6-7-8 and 9, both at assizes and petty sessions, stating the crimes with which those so committed were charged—the number against whom no bills were found—those discharged by proclamation—those convicted—those acquitted of the capital part of the charge—the sentences pronounced, and the executions which took place within the periods alluded to.

expressed his disposition to comply with the wish of his learned friend, and assured him that nothing should be wanting on his part to promote the object of his learned friend, which he could not, however, pretend to say, was attainable.

was sure that the thinness of attendance alluded to by the learned gentleman, was owing to the circumstance of so many of the members being engaged at the several sessions, otherwise there could be no doubt that the motion of the learned gentleman, or indeed, any measure, brought forward by him, would secure a full attendance.

denied that party spirit had any influence whatever upon the vote of gentlemen on his side of the House, on the occasion alluded to by his learned friend. Indeed, the suspicion of any party influence' was completely negatived by the very thin attendance complained of by his learned friend. For surely if party spirit were at all excited, a much greater number would have been likely to attend on either side of the House than the whole who voted upon the motion of his learned friend.

again expressed his sorrow that upon a question so materially concerning the administration of justice and the lives of men, the attendance should have been so thin. He justified the expression of his suspicion as to the conduct of the other side of the House by observing that two thirds of those who voted against his motion, were actually in office.—The motion was then agreed to.

, after observing upon the propriety of calling the attention of the House to the expence of the Transport Service, the estimate of which for the current year was no less than three millions, moved for a return of the number and tonnage of the hired transports in the public service, describing the number on each station, and also the number of seamen employed in navigating the same.—The hon. gent. expressed a wish at the same time that his right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should postpone his motion upon this subject, which stood for Monday, in order that gentlemen might have time to examine the document he moved for.

saw no necessity of acceding to the delay required, as the interest of the public service called for expedition.

thought the delay proposed by the hon. gent. ought to be acceded to, in order to afford the House time to examine the documents connected with this subject.

was an advocate for delay. There were many points connected with the navy which called for serious consideration. He had no doubt that such reductions might be made in our navy as would render the additional vote of 15,000 men totally unnecessary, There were many reductions indeed which were called for by justice and humanity. For instance, old sailors should not be employed on harbour duty. It was scandalous to see men worn out in the service subjected to the labours of convicts. But there were other arrangements which it might be expedient to refer to a committee. There were perhaps 15 or 16,000 men in the navy who had not, owing to our situation, set foot on shore since the year 1795. Now, in his opinion, these men ought to be relieved from service according as they came into port. Indeed, viewing the present state of France, and of the maritime world, he could not see why a considerable reduction should not be made in our naval force instead of voting, as was proposed, a much larger amount of force than the country had ever before employed. Besides, the change which had just taken place in the government of the Admiralty was a reason for delay, that the individual appointed might hare time to examine the subject.

expected to have seen, in the naval estimates, some item with regard to the construction of a Dock-yard at Northfleet.

The motion was then agreed to.

rose, in pursuance of his notice, to move for three sets of papers on the subject of the affairs of India. As this was a subject of great importance, it was but fit he should state distinctly the object of his motions. The first set of papers for which he should move, would be for the purpose of shewing the nature and progress of those disturbances in the Madras army last summer which had shaken the British empire in India. From them it would appear, that this was no mutiny of an ordinary nature, and that the danger incurred was great beyond conception or example. It was not by the superiority of a handful of Europeans that our empire in India was to be preserved. The king's troops did not amount to more than 20,000 men, and the company had but three battalions. On the other hand, there was an army of from 150, to 160,000 native troops raised and recruited from those countries the governments of which we had overturned and destroyed. He feared that all these countries united in sentiments hostile to the British. In such a situation as this, what must have been their feelings, on being spectators of the British officers in array against the British government, and actually engaged in conflict?—What must they have thought, when they saw the blood of the native troops shed in a quarrel of this kind? It was a miracle that our Indian empire withstood the shock—a shock so terrible, that he was informed the government had to send emissaries to the camp to seduce the soldiers from their officers. He was astonished that the empire survived it, and was sure that it must have shaken the opinions both of the people and native troops; with regard to the British. The first set of papers as he had said, would illustrate who was right and who was wrong in this dreadful affair. At present he would give no opinion. The government accused the officers of entering into a combination, and carrying matters to so dangerous a length, that they were compelled to interfere; and, on the other hand, the officers denied all this, and accused the governor, sir George Barlow, of having, for a year before they entered into this combination treated them throughout with wanton insult.—The only opinion he could now give was, that no provocation to the soldier could justify an appeal to arms. The next sets of papers he would move for, were connected with certain proceedings of the civil courts of law at Madras. Here it was necessary for him to state a few facts, to shew what his intention was on this part of the question. A few years ago, when the Carnatic was ceded to the company, they took upon themselves the payment of the prince's debts. To liquidate these, they resolved to set apart the sum of five millions. In this country, by an act of the House of Commons, commissioners had been appointed to inquire into the claims, and pay the money; and, last year, they had found there were claims to the amount of 30, instead of five millions. In such a matter as this, there were, no doubt, many fictitions demands. At Madras, a certain body, either from holding bonds, or for some other reason, calling themselves the bona fide creditors of the Nabob, prosecuted other claimants, in three different actions, for conspiracy and perjury. In these three trials, however, strange as it might sound in this country, the government took part, not with the prosecutors, but against them, and for the prosecuted; and by their influence the question was decided. The interference, too, was of an oppressive kind: several of the prosecutors were removed from their offices, and sent hundreds of miles from Madras. One person in particular, 60 years of age, who produced a certificate from his physician, to prove that removal would be dangerous to his health, and asked the reason for his banishment, was denied an answer, and sent to a place where, by his death, in a fortnight, he confirmed the physician's predictions. Not content with this, government had still further interfered, and selecting certain persons from the three juries by Whom these prosecutions were tried, dealt With them as they had dealt with the prosecutors, removing them from office and sending them away from Madras. He did not mean to say that the government might not have been reduced to the necessity to exercise this power; but it seemed so strange to men in this country, that it was but fit to be inquired into. He would therefore move for the production of copies of these trials; of the orders for the removal of the person; applications, inquiring into the causes thereof; and other papers connected with the same. The council of Madras consisted of four persons, at the head of whom was sir G. Barlow. Those who dissented from him, were, by law, to state their reasons in minutes to the court of Directors. He wished to have these, as he understood Mr. Petrie, the second in council, did object to the measures pursued. His (Mr. Petrie's) opinions too, were of some weight as compared with sir G. Barlow's; for he had been 44 years at Madras, while the latter had only been two or three there. The only remaining papers for which he should move, were such as would shew how these matters had been viewed by the court of directors and the government at home. This was more necessary, as the court of directors had divided in equal numbers on the question, whether sir G, Barlow or Mr. Petrie should be recalled? and the accidental issue was the sending Mr. Petrie to another government. Some, of the directors had protested against this, and he wished to have these protests, to see on what their opinions were founded.—These were all the papers he now wanted; but, he trusted, should any others appear to be necessary during the course of this inquiry, he would be permitted to call for them. The hon. gent. concluded by moving for the mass of papers abovementioned, being copies of all correspondence between the commander-in-chief, and the governor in council at Madras, directing the arrest of lieut.-coL Monroe, &c.

gave his hearty support to the motion. He contended that all the unfortunate disturbances in India had originated in the violence and oppression of the Madras government; and declared, that thing had been done in the courts of law in India, which, had they been attempted in this country, would inevitably have produced a revolution.

condemned strongly the course which the hon. gent. had thought fit to pursue on this business. Several weeks ago that hon. gent. had moved for papers respecting it, a motion at which no one rejoiced more than himself, as he was most happy that the attention of the House should be called to it. Finding this, however, the hon. gent. after a long delay, gave so late as only yesterday notice of a motion this day for a set of additional papers much more voluminous than the others, and containing a great deal of matter wholly unconnected with the military part of the question. With regard to that portion of the papers now moved for which really bore upon the military question, he was as anxious as the hon. gent. for their production, solicitous as he was to have the cause of the late unfortunate occurrences in India fully developed and discussed. The hon. gent. asserted, that any thing like the mutiny which had existed among the troops in India was wholly unprecedented. He wished that he could confirm that assertion. He trusted, however, that such an event would never recur; and he firmly believed, that the means which had been resorted to, to suppress the recent disturbances, were those which were the best calculated to prevent their recurrence. For his own part, he was astonished how any set of men could have have gone the length to endeavour to intimidate the government of India into concessions, as disgraceful and ruinous to themselves as they would have been destructive of the British empire in that country. Deliberative meetings of military men ought not to be permitted. They were wholly inconsistent with all idea of military discipline. He did not believe that any of the individuals who went the lengths which they subsequently did, had the least intention of doing so in the first instance. Of such a premeditated design he by no means accused them, but he trusted their example would operate as a warning to military men how they commenced acts which were incompatible with military subordination, and which must ultimately lead to the subversion of all good government, and to the overthrow of the whole power of the state. With respect to sir G. Barlow, he was persuaded that the salvation of the British interests in India was attributable to his undaunted firmness, and to his determination at all hazards to maintain the dignity and character of the British government. It was sir G. Barlow's opinion—an opinion in which he concurred, that the nation had better not have a single acre in Hindostan, than possess it subject to the pleasure of any military body whatever. The hon. mover had stated it as an alarming circumstance that the native troops had been called upon to support the government against their own officers. It certainly was much to be lamented that circumstances drove the British government in India to take this step; but he wished to know how the hon. gent. could reconcile his assertion of the general dislike of the natives of India to the British government, with the solid proof they had given of their allegiance to that government, even in opposition to those very individuals by whom they were in the habit of being daily commanded, and who no doubt in a considerable degree possessed their attachment. As for the appointment of sir G. Barlow to the presidency at Madras, all he could say was that, on coming into office three years ago, he found the government of Madras vacant. It came to be a question with the court of directors whom to appoint to that situation; for the appointment was vested in them, although it was usual for them to require the concurrence of his Majesty's government. It was his wish that a person of competent qualifications should assume that government, either from this country or from Bengal, for it did not appear to him that there were any individuals at Madras on whom it would have been expedient to confer the presidency. Sir G. Barlow had been selected because of his high rank in the Bengal service, and because of his strict honour and integrity. He was appointed as superior to all the petty intrigues of the place over which he was to preside, and which intrigues it was the constant aim of government to discountenance and suppress. Such was the history of the appointment of sir G. Barlow. When the papers came to be on the table, the House would see how far he had answered the expectations which had been formed of him. Nothing could be more censurable than the anonymous means to which, in the absence of all official documents, the officers had resorted for defence. He was prepossessed against any cause by such a mode of advocating it. He repeated that for that portion of the papers moved for by the hon. gent. which related to the military occurrences, he would vote with the greatest satisfaction; but these were coupled in the hon. gent.'s motion with documents so voluminous, and so unconnected with the military part of the question, that unless the session were, protracted very much beyond its ordinary duration, no hope could be entertained of submitting them to the consideration of the House. Several of the papers likewise which would be included by the hon. gent.'s motion it would be unfit to publish. On the breaking out of the disturbances in India, the government mails had been stopped by the revolters; government were consequently compelled to stop the mails themselves, and there had come home a great number of private letters, many of them containing matter of the most criminal nature. The House was aware, however, that the governor-general of India, with the view to heal the wounds of the British empire in that country, had adopted the course (with certain exceptions) of restoring to their rank and confidence all the officers of the Madras army. It would not be fitting, therefore, under such circumstances, that the private letters which he had mentioned should be produced. They might find their way back to India, and do the individuals by whom they were written great disservice, and the country no good. To the comments of the hon. gent. on the civil proceedings of the government of Madras, he was not prepared, from the shortness of the hon. gent.'s notice, fully to reply; but in some of those comments he was sure that the hon. gent. was totally mistaken; for instance, in his animadversions on the part which the Madras government took in support of the commissioners appointed to consider the Carnatic claims. With respect also to the removal from office of persons for their conduct while serving upon juries, he was persuaded that the hon. gent. was wholly mistaken. So far from having been removed several of the individuals alluded to had even been promoted. In his observations on the removal of Mr. Petrie, the hon. gent. had omitted several very important considerations. He had not mentioned, that before that removal the court of directors had distinctly approved the conduct of sir G. Barlow. Besides, as it was necessary that one of the three counsellors should be removed, in order to make way for sir S. Achmuty, who had been appointed commander in chief, it became a question whether of the three counsellors it was not expedient to remove the one with whom there was positive proof that sir G. Barlaw could not sit at the same council board. The conduct therefore of Mr. Petrie was not the sole ground for his removal, although it did not follow that it might not have had its influence. He should say no more on the subject; than merely to read a list of the letters which in his opinion, comprised all that it was necessary to lay before the House. This he accordingly did.

reprobated the conduct which had prompted the recent disturbances in India. It appeared to him also, that Mr. Petrie had been removed on ex parte evidence. It was impossible that after the frauds and tyrannies which had been practised at Madras, that country should not feel a soreness and aversion to the government, which it required all the exertion and authority of that House to mitigate. He would wish to know by what means ministers became possessed of the papers respecting that government, which they then had? He conceived that the papers of sir G. Barlow had not been transmitted legally. India, which could only be supported by truth and justice, called aloud for the interposition of this government, and her prayers for aid could not be refused.

would say a few words on the subject of sir G. Barlow's conduct. It was said that he had used a desperate experiment, and that the general opinion of the people of Madras was against the English government. The facts were quite the reverse. The conduct of sir G. Barlow was highly laudable, instead of being intemperate or desperate; and the individuals who were under the protection of the East India company, felt, and avowed they felt, that their happiness and freedom emanated from the care and the parental fondness of that government. He believed there had been many misrepresentations respecting the civil power. The particulars of their conduct could not yet be ascertained. He was one of those who did not consider the removal of a man from one place to another any disgrace, provided the change was for the better. This was the case with the jurymen, who had, many of them, received positive advantage by their removal. He wished that all the necessary papers should be produced; but if the motion for all the papers was carried, he would desire that a selection should be made, before the motion for printing them was carried.

said, it had been mentioned that sir G. Barlow had acted firmly in his government. It was possible that the government at Madras, like the government at home, was firm in opposing every thing in which the public interests were concerned. He conceived that the people there must be disgusted with the government placed over them, in proportion to the disgust which the English government had excited in liberal and enlightened people. It had been said that anonymous remonstrances had been made; but was it not known that punishment awaited the man who could boldly utter his sentiments? These applications failed, and the consequence was rebellion. He heartily wished that our possessions in India were gone; they were a loadstone round the neck of the country, and would, at length, succeed in sinking her. Until papers, exculpatory of sir G. Barlow's conduct, were brought forward: he would continue to think unfavourably of him.

said that a great deal of mischief would be occasioned by the intemperate discussion of Indian affairs in that House. Sir G. Barlow had been treated most unfairly by several of the gentlemen who had taken a part in this discussion. There were no grounds for a single accusation against him. The whole of that gentleman's conduct, during the late proceedings in Madras, was such as raised him highly in the opinion of all who were acquainted with him. He would restrain himself with respect to the particulars, till the papers were laid on the table.

supported the motion.

said, it was the duty of the gentlemen opposite, to bring the subject forward long since. He asserted that the army of Madras, instead of being in the state described by an hon. gent. (Mr. Dundas) was remarkable for loyalty when sir G. Barlow entered that country, and it was the duty of ministers to see whether irritation had not been the cause of sedition.

said, it was improper to enter into so full a discussion, without the necessary documents. He had heard contradictory statements from both sides, but no satisfaction whatsoever had been given. He considered the conduct of sir G. Barlow as unnecessarily harsh; but, however harsh it was, it could not warrant the crime of sedition. He hoped that tranquillity would be soon restored, by uniting the civil and military authorities.

The question for the papers was then put, and agreed to.

proposed a vote of 7,000l. a year to the duke of Brunswick. He in a few words commented on the heroic exertions of that illustrious personage, in defence of his dominions, the loss of which arose out of his connection with this country, or at least that connection was one of the ope- rating causes. He reminded the House of their liberality in the fatal period of the French revolution, and compared the superiority of claim in the present instance, over that of any case that then occurred. He then moved, That it is the opinion of this Committee that a sum not exceeding. 7,000l. a year be granted to his Majesty, out of the consolidated fund, to enable him to make provision for the establishment of the duke of Brunswick as long as the occupation of his territories by the French troops, precluded him from returning to the possession of his dominions.

did not rise to oppose the motion, but to question the propriety of drawing the sum demanded from the source alluded to. The enormous increase of taxes he believed to be the real cause of the present popular irritation, and it behoved ministers to look out for supply from some other source than the burdens of the people. The droits of admiralty would be amply and well calculated to contribute to the exigencies of the personage in question.

had no objection to the grant, provided it was drawn from the admiralty droits, or some such source; and required to be informed why that might not be done?

asked, would it be possible for man to describe the feelings of the people of England, if they saw a prince begging through their streets?

thought the people of England would submit to any sacrifice sooner than witness such a spectacle. He added that the illustrious prince in question had a large family to support.

said, that there was no disposition to refuse that personage the provision proposed, but he thought it a matter of no little importance to ascertain whether that provision might not be made without adding to the burthens of the people; as to the claim of large family, so pathetically put forth by the hon. gent., that plea, he suspected, would not turn out to be well founded, or if it did, it must shock the piety of that hon. gent. to be told, that the duke of Brunswick never had been married [a laugh] at least, such was the rumour.

thought that the hon. baronet might have learned a sufficient lesson from the proceedings of last night, that would have restrained him from making a charge upon a mere rumour. The duke of Brunswick had no wife, because he had had the misfortune to lose her, and was left with two children to heighten, and, at the same time, to console his misfortunes.

disclaimed any intention of throwing out an imputation against the noble duke, but he would assure the right hon. gent. that no lesson of the kind alluded to, should deter him from prosecuting any public malversation whatever. He admitted that in the case of last night a candid defence had been made out, and he was not ashamed of such admission.

The motion was then agreed to.