rose to submit to the consideration of the Committee a general statement of the supplies and ways and means of the year. In doing this, and laying before the Committee, as it was his duty to do, a detailed exposition of the financial circumstances of the country, he should not confine what he had to say to the bare statement of the revenue, but at the same time exhibit a general view of the trade and commercial situation of the country. The accounts on the table, which had been refered to the Committee for consideration, would, he was persuaded, in this respect be found highly interesting in their general results, and particularly applicable to the subject to which he was now to draw the attention of the Committee. He thought that they would not only afford the best means of forming a correct judgment how far the country was able to support its present burthens, but that they would be the best answer to those who were accustomed to take gloomy views of the financial situation of the country. They would shew, that so far from there being a reason to apprehend any thing like decay or failure in our finances, the more we looked at them, the more reason would we have to be satisfied with their growing improvement and prosperity. It would be highly satisfactory to know, that such had been the produce of our revenues in that year—that very year when men of great weight and authority in that House anticipated a failure, that instead of the deficit they apprehended, there had actually been a very considerable increase. Those points however he should not then stop to examine as he should have occasion to dwell on them at more length in another part of his speech as more immediately connected with the ways and means.—He should, therefore, without further preliminary observation proceed to state the supplies already voted and also the ways and means by which be proposed to cover them.

To meet these Supplies, the Ways and Means were as follows:—

The total of ways and means, as the Committee must perceive, would afford a surplus of 141,202l. above the total amount of the supplies.

Having thus laid before the committee a general statement of the total amount of grants of supplies and of the ways and means to meet them, it became his duty next to make some observations on the different items. As to the first two items of the ways and means, it did not occur to him that it was necessary to make any particular observations with respect to them at present. But with respect to the war taxes, he felt that it would be incumbent upon him to state to the House those reasons which made him conceive himself warranted in taking them at the amount that he had stated. The war taxes had last year produced 22,707,000l. The produce of the tax upon property actually paid into the treasury in the last year was 13,751,233l. of which sum the assessment had only been 11,400,000l. The excess of the receipts above the assessment of the year was Consequently 2,351,233l. It. would not, however, be reasonable to calculate upon so large a receipt in the present year, as the excess of the receipts above the actual assessment consisted of arrears of former years which had been, collected with great activity and success. Such indeed had been the activity used in the collection of the arrears, that there were now none due of a later date than the year 1807, and the particular arrears which now appeared to be due were as follows: for the year 1807, the arrears were 409,923l.; for the year 1808, 530,368l.; for the year 1809, 1,540,750l.; and for the present year 6,241,405l. This last sum, however, could not properly be called arrears, as the assessment for the year 1810 was made up to the 5th of April, which was only last month, and that assessment was now in the regular course of collection. It was, therefore, hard to state whether there were any arrears properly belonging to the year 1810. Since the year 1804 there had been granted on account of the war taxes altogether 115,880,000l. of which there had been received 107,441,478l. leaving a total arrear of 8,437,522l. of grants unsatisfied.

He now came to Consider of the war taxes of customs and excise, and in doing this he would take the average of the last three years.

With respect to the lottery, he knew an honourable gentleman opposite him (Mr. Whitbread), was still positive in his intention of opposing the raising of any sum of money whatever in that way. But whatever weight his objections might ultimately have, he was sure the honourable gentleman would be much gratified to find, that many of the must serious evils which were formerly attendant upon lotteries, had been, in a great measure, if not wholly, removed by different suggestions and regulations which he himself had made. The new plan, of having the whole lottery drawn in one day, cut up by the roots that system of insurance upon the drawing of the lottery, which had produced such mischievous effects among many of the lower classes of the community. When the drawing of the lottery continued many days, it was hardly possible to prevent illegal insurances: and the great mischief attending them was, that the poor were often induced to risk all that they were worth, and expose themselves to absolute ruin in the hope of recovering their first losses. The destruction of insurances therefore had almost entirely removed those evil consequences which had been complained of in former lotteries. He did not think, for his own part, that giving up the lottery altogether would by any means destroy the spirit of gaming among the lower orders. He thought on the contrary, that it might drive many of them to modes of gambling, which would be much more pernicious to them, as partaking of the evils attending insurances, without the slightest possibility of gain. He meant the little goes, and things of that description. He trusted therefore that, when it came to be argued, the House would still be of opinion that this source of revenue should not be abandoned.

As to the large sum of 8,311,000l. in exchequer bills funded, he had already stated that the vote of credit of the last year had been defrayed from these exchequer bills. And as to a vote of credit for the present year, he did not think it necessary for him to use any particular arguments to recommend it. He trusted the House would perceive the necessity of granting the usual vote of credit in the, present state of the country, and the circumstances and situation of the world in general.

He came next to the consideration of the loan, consisting of eight millions for the service of Great Britain, and four millions for the service of Ireland; and he had the satisfaction to inform the committee, that he had contracted for the twelve millions that morning, on terms infinitely more favourable to the public than had ever been, at any former period, known. The terms he had proposed as the basis of the law, were to give for every 100l, subscribed, 130l. in the 3 per cent. reduced stock, and to take the bidding in the 3 per cent. consols. The contract was finally completed upon an offer on the part of the contractors to take 10l. 7s. 6d. in the consols, in addition to the 130l, reduced annuities for every 100l. subscribed, making in the whole 140l. 7s. 6d. for each l00l. The amount of interest upon the money borrowed was, therefore, but 4l. 4s. 3¾ per cent.; so that the loan of twelve millions for the service of Great Britain and Ireland, was thus borrowed at 15s. 7¼ d. per cent. below the rate of legal interest. The total charge that would arise to the public, including the sinking fund and the charge of management upon the loan, would be but 5l. 13s. per cent. The committee would from this statement, be enabled to appreciate the advantage derived to the public upon this loan, by adverting to the terms upon which the loan of last year had been effected. Gentlemen would recollect, that the loan for the Service of the year 1809 had been, procured at an interest of 4l. 12s. l0d., and that such terms were on that occasion looked upon as most favourable. It would be seen, therefore, with satisfaction, that according to the statement he had just submitted, the loan for the service of the present year had been obtained at the rate of 8s. 7d. per cent. interest less than the last year, and it would be for the committee to decide, whether, so far as the transaction was connected with the situation of the country, it was to be regarded as a proof for the better or the worse. (Hear!) It would be in the recollection of the committee, that at a former period of the session he submitted a proposition to the House for funding a certain propor- tion of the exchequer bills outstanding in the 5 per cents. The stock created by that operation, added to what was created by the transaction of the loan, constituted the whole amount of the addition to the public debt. In consequence of the loan there were created in the 3 per cents. reduced 10,400,000l.; in the 3 per cents. consols 830,000l.; making a total on account of the loan of 11,230,000l. Now, if this amount were to be added the stock created on account of the funded exchequer bills 8,581,727l. it would give a total of addition to the public debt of Great Britain in the present year of 19,811,727l The charge for interest upon this addition to the public debt was on the 3 per cents. reduced consols 336,000l.; on the exchequer bills funded in the 5 per cents. 429,086l.; forming a total annual charge Of 765,986l. To this charge, however, was to be added, on account of 1 per cent. sinking fund, 198,117l., and on account of charge of management, 6,735l. which would make the whole of the annual charge to be provided for, including the different rates of interest, and charges for the sinking fund, and of management, 970833l.

It now became his duty to submit to the consideration of the committee, the means by which he proposed to meet so large a supply; but he had first to bring under the observation of the committee the fact, that the charge upon the, whole, inclusive of every expence, was but 5l 19s. 1½d per cent. The cause of its being even so high was obviously to be found in the transactions for funding the exchequer bills in the 5 per cents. Thus he had stated in detail all the heads of the ways and means of the year, with the exception of the consolidated fund. It remained for him, therefore, to put the committee in possession of the grounds of his entertaining a reasonable prospect as to the produce of that fund, and also to shew why he did not propose to take the surplus for the present year at more than 4,400,000l. The total charge up on the consolidated fund for the year 1810, was 34,421,996l. the total produce of that fund being 41,441,770l. up to the 5th of April last. The difference, therefore, between the charge and produce of that fund, amounted to 7,019,774l. When this difference was so large, it might be matter of surprise to the committee, that he did not estimate the surplus for the present year, higher than he proposed to do. But from that difference there was to be deducted the deficiency of the preceding year, amounting to 358,712l. and also 2,661,000l. which had been already voted in the present session, as the produce of that fund above the estimated surplus of last year. These deductions would reduce the difference to little more than the sum at which he proposed to estimate the surplus of the fund for the present year. He had next to acquaint the committee with the grounds on which he calculated that its produce would be nearly the same in the current year. The consolidated customs in the year ending the 5th of April 1810, had exceeded their produce in the antecedent year. This branch of the revenue had produced in the last year 5,251,449l. whereas in the preceding year it had produced but 3,719,000l. He was aware, however, that it would not be either reasonable or just to assume, that the receipt of the consolidated customs would in the present be the same as in the last year. He should take the average of the two years, which, the sum of both being 8,970,449l. would be 4,485,221l.

The amount of the revenue of consolidated excise he proposed to take at what it had produced last year, 16,880,635l. The total amount of the consolidated customs and excise revenue, during the last year, allowing for the duties on tea postponed, and the sugar duties transferred from the customs to the excise, amounted to upwards of 24,000,000l. The consolidated customs and excise revenue in 1808, had produced 23,000,000l.; but in the accounts for the last year there was a blank left for the duties on sugar, in the last quarter, which had not been received, but which estimated according to the receipts of the preceding quarters, would raise the receipts of the last year to above 24,000,000l. or 24,476,000l. So that the receipts of that year would be to those of 1808, nearly as 24 to 22, and to those of 1807, as 24 to 23, and if the receipts should continue during the remaining quarters to exceed the receipts of the last year, in the same proportion as the first quarter's receipts had exceeded the receipts of the corresponding quarter of last year, he had a certainty of a very considerable increase. It would, he had no doubt, be a satisfaction to learn, that the malt duty, in which there had been some falling off, was now beginning to recover; and that there had been an increase of from forty to fifty thousand pounds in the last quarter.

He now came to the consideration of the assessed taxes. The produce of these taxes, last year was 6,459,000l.; but upon comparing the receipts with the actual assessments, he found that the receipts were considerably more than the assessments, an increase which could only arise from the extraordinary exertions made to collect the arrears. The amount of arrears last year, in the arreared taxes, was not less than 600,000l. whereas he had the satisfaction to inform the committee, that the whole amount of such arrears, at present outstanding, did not exceed 300,000l.; a state of progress in the effectual collection of these taxes, which must prove to the House and the country that no neglect at least had taken place in that department. Making allowance therefore for the arrears collected within the last year, he should take credit, on account of the assessed taxes, for 5,860,000l.

The produce of the stamp duties he proposed to take at the amount of their produce last year, being 5,193,000l. The post-office produced 1,194,000l. and as it was a growing revenue, he was also entitled to take it at the same amount. There were several other minor branches of revenue arising from pensions, land tax, hawkers and pedlars and imprest monies, which, added to the various sources of revenue he had before enumerated, would carry the receipts of the consolidated fund to 35,357,000l. The sum which had been transferred to the consolidated fund from the war taxes on account of the loans of 1807 and 1809, amounted to 2,240,000l. annually; so that the whole receipts of the consolidated fund exclusive of the duties annually voted, were 37,597,000l. The total amount of charge upon the consolidated fund exclusive of Ireland, and an allowance of 100,000l. for charges which might be thrown upon it in the course of the year, (a sum of 160,000l. having been so appropriated in the course of last year) did not exceed 31,960,000l. which sum, deducted from the receipts, would leave a surplus of 5,637,000l. It was natural then for the committee to ask why, when the surplus according to his own statement was so great, he should propose to take it only at the amount of 4,400,000l. The reason of his so doing he was prepared to state to the committee, and that would necessarily lead him to an explanation of the means by which he proposed to cover the supply required for the charge of the loan, &c, The accounts on the table would shew the committee, that the receipts under the head of stamps, had amounted last year to 5,193,000l. which was an increase above the receipts of the preceding year of the sum of 1,236,907l. This great Increase was, in some degree, owing as well to the collection of arrears, as arising subsequent to, and out of certain regulations and provisions, which had been adopted on his own suggestion in the year 1808, in the act for consolidating of the duties on stamps. The charge to be provided for in that year amounted to 731,000l. Of this 624,242l. had been provided by other means, and 106,758l. only remained to be defrayed out of the consolidated stamps. Taking the average of the two preceding years as the criterion of the, produce of the stamp-duties, the excess of the receipt of last year would give the exact amount derived from the regulations which he had recommended. This average was 3,856,030l. which deducted from 5,193,000l. the receipt of last year, would leave an excess of 1,236,970l. applicable to the public service. He was aware that in making this statement he might be exposing himself to censure, for having made so great a miscalculation of the effects of his measure: but whatever might be thought of that, he was confident that the committee would feel the propriety of taking advantage of this increase, and apply it to the service of the year. If the sum charged, in 1808, on the stamp consolidated duties of 106,758l. were deducted from the surplus receipts of last year, it would leave a balance of nearly 1,130,000l. arising out of the additions and regulations made in the consolidation of the stamp duties in 1808. The proposition then which he had to submit to the House, and he should beg of gentlemen to tax and comment upon, and criticise it as they might think fit, was, that the charge of 970,339l. 12 s. 1½d. incurred upon the loan, and the funding of exchequer bills in the present year, should be taken out of this excess of the provision made in the regulation of the stamp duties in 1808. If the House could have anticipated such an excess from the measure then resorted to, he had he doubt but that they might have applied it in the same manner as any other surplus of ways and means, to the relief of the burthens of that year. But in submitting this proposition to the committee, he intreated gentlemen not to consider it as containing any thing new. Having granted these duties in 1808, the House was justified in appropriating them to the charge of the present year on account of the loan. But it was not necessary to run the appropriation to the full length of the excess of the receipts over the 106,758l. required for the charge of 1808. He should propose to reserve a sum of 150,000l. from that excess, which would leave a sum of 1,086,000l. which, after covering the charge for the current year, would afford a balance of about 115,000l. applicable to the general purposes of the consolidated fund.

He was aware that many persons might feel considerable objections to this proposition; but the more such objections should be examined, the more they would be found to contain nothing of any weight in comparison with the advantages that would result from its adoption. The first objection, that perhaps would be started, was, that the House would consider it a new principle to look to the actual receipt of former taxes for defraying the accruing burthens of the current year. It might, too, be stated in support of this objection, that in the year 1802, when a sum of 1,800,000l. only was wanted, Mr. Addington had laid on taxes to a much larger amount; and yet in the following year, had proceeded to provide for its charges by new taxes, without resorting to the excess of the provision over the charge of the preceding year. But such objection he might meet, by asking whether his proposition was the same with that submitted to the House in 1802? Besides, gentlemen would recollect that Mr. Addington's measure had been brought forward in a year of peace; and at a time, too, when he was making a very considerable and important alteration in the whole system of the sinking fund. When such an alteration was in progress, it was natural to look to some new arrangements to provide for the charge of the current year, rather than go back to the produce arising from the financial operations of a preceding year. If some considerations of this description had not influenced the measures resorted to on the occasion to which he had alluded, or if the idea was then generally entertained, as at present, that an end ought to be put to the progress of taxation so long as it could be avoided, he was of opinion that the ministers of that day should have resorted to the existing or old taxes, rather than impose new ones. Though he could not, therefore, find any precedent precisely in point for the measure he proposed in the instance to which he had alluded, that could be no reason why, under the different circumstances of the times, the measure should not now be adopted on the grounds, on which he felt it his duty to recommend it.

But in considering this part of the question, he wished to bring to the recollection of the Committee, the plan which had been brought forward in 1807, by his immediate predecessor in office. The principle upon which that plan was founded, was, that it was desirable to suspend the laying on of any new taxes for three years at least, in order to cherish the resources of the country. Consequently no new taxes had been laid on in that year, and, though the principle had not been adhered to in 1808, no new taxes had been imposed in the year 1809. Thus the plan had been carried into effect in two of the three years originally proposed, but actually only in one, because the additional taxes and produce of regulations adopted in the intervening year, by producing above a million more than was necessary to meet the charge of that year, in reality amounted to a provision for two years in one. There was also another consideration, which weighed strongly on his mind in recommending this measure. By the exertions that had been made, and were still in progress, to call in the arrears of the property and assessed taxes, which last year amounted to 2,800,000l. a considerable sum had been drawn from the public in addition to the regular receipts of the year. The Committee then would see that the period when such an additional collection had been made from the public, though on account of arrears, was not a time for resorting to new taxes, if they could be avoided. He begged particularly in this place to call the attention of the Committee to a resolution which had been introduced by the noble lord whom he succeeded (marquis of Lansdowne) into his financial resolutions in 1807. This resolution directed that an account should be laid before the House of the net produce of all the permanent taxes for the three preceding years, and that an average should be made of those not then in full operation: it also directed that a similar account should be made out for the years 1808, 9, and 10, and if there should appear to be any excess of amount in those three last years, that it should be at the disposal of Parliament, and applicable to cover the charge of the loan for either year; but if any deficiency should take place, that it was to be made good by Parliament. The principle of this resolution was certainly not that upon which his proposition was founded; because, if he were to take an average on three years, the excess would be 60,000l. more than he meant to take for the service of the present year. He had adverted to this resolution only to shew, that his proposition was not altogether a novel idea in that House.

It might here be material, as well with a view to form a correct judgment upon the subject as for the satisfaction of the committee, to look briefly to the state of the trade, manufactures, and commerce of the country, in order to shew, that there was a just prospect that their expectation would not prove unfounded as to the stability of the means and resources of the empire. This would most satisfactorily appear from a reference to the comparative amount of the exports and imports at different periods. The official value of the imports last year was 36,255,209l. The prosperous year of peace (1802) was only 31,442,318l. being an increase last year of nearly 5,000,000l. above the most prosperous year of peace. The exports of British manufactures last year amounted to 35,107,000l.; in 1802 they were only 27,993,199l. being a difference between eight and 9,000,000l. in favour of last year. The export of foreign manufactured goods was last year 15,194,000l. somewhat less than the amount of foreign exports in 1802, which was 19,152,000l. But it was most satisfactory to observe, that though the exports of foreign goods had decreased, the export of British manufactures had risen in a greater proportion, and that there was a greater increase upon the whole of 4,180,000l. the amount of all the exports having been last year 50,300,000l., whereas in 1802, they amounted to but 46,120,000l. Upon an average of the two last years, compared with the average of 1802 and the preceding year, the advantage was 3,168,300l. in favour of these two years of war over two years of peace. But if the advantage had even not been so much in favour of last year, the average would shew, that the country was not stationary, but progressive in prosperity. In Yorkshire alone the manufacture of cloth had in- creased in the last year to the extent of 1,500,000 yards. But was not the growing prosperity of the country obvious in the great public works which, were undertaken throughout the country—the great canals and extensive docks which were on all sides establishing? The progress of such undertakings, with as much spirit, activity, and enterprise, as in a time of the most profound and prosperous peace, was, a certain indication of the flourishing condition of our trade, manufactures, and commerce.

The Committee would, he trusted, excuse him for having called their attention to such topics which were so intimately connected with the subject of that day. It was of the highest consequence to shew, that the state of the industry, manufactures, and commerce of the country was such as to enable the nation to maintain the burthens it had to bear, and that whilst there appeared an increase in all, there could be no reason for considering this a failing or a falling country. Though undoubtedly the Committee must be sensible that the pressure of the times may bear heavily upon some classes of their fellow subjects, a pressure which they must all equally lament, yet it was consolatory to reflect, that there was no ground for apprehending any material or extensive national calamity. But it was not only in our internal resources, but in our external means and strength, that the progressive prosperity of this nation was to be traced: This too had happily been made out to the conviction of our enemy. It was but a few years since that enemy had declared that all he wanted were ships, colonies, and commerce. If the attainment of such objects were his wish, what progress had he made towards their accomplishment? It was only, by acquisitions from this country that he was to realize any one of them, and yet all the commerce that belonged to his empire it had lost; all the colonies that had belonged to him he had lost; and the few ships he had remaining were kept pent up in ports, without ever daring to put to sea. This was the government, too, whose measures were represented as founded in wisdom, and executed with ability, whilst the government of this country had been uniformly charged with weakness, ignorance, folly, and imbecility. He should detain the Committee with but one more observation, to shew that the operations of the wise measures of the orders in council, so much abused in this country, had had the effect of reducing the receipts of the customs in France from 2,500,000l. to 500,000l. being a diminution of 4·5ths of its whole amount. This shewed how unavailing all the measures of the French, ruler were to the accomplishment of his darling object, He should, therefore, not take up more of the time of the committee, but move, That the terms on which the Loan had been contracted for, should be approved of by that committee.

did not know whether his right hon. friend, in his very able statement, alluded to him as one of those who thought the country in a falling condition.—If he did, it must have arisen from a mistake, because he had neither thought nor said any such thing. He thought the country was in a state of progressive improvement, which, in a country where property was so well protected, could only be stopped by some convulsion. What he had said was, that it would be difficult to find new taxes, which would not be extremely objectionable—that there was a limit to taxation—and that we had nearly reached that limit; and that he was correct in all this, the statement of his right hon. friend most fully proved. He must himself have felt its force, before he could make up his mind to propose the mode which he intended to adopt to supply the means of the year. He had heard nothing from his right hon. friend in contradiction to what he (Mr. H.) had stated on a former occasion; and he really wished that something positive could be got from his right hon. friend upon this subject. He wished to know whether he thought it possible, for any great number of years, to continue adding from a million to 1,200,000l. every year to the public burthens? Whether he thought this would be sufficient on the present plan, even if it could be procured?—and, Whether he hoped that the war could be, continued in this way? His right hon. friend had not touched on these points; but he thought that his right hon. friend owed it to the country to state what his views were on the subject, supposing the war to continue for a great number of years, as, in all probability, it would. Supposing the presumptions balanced as to the long continuance of the war, and the speedy conclusion of peace; and this he thought was a very sanguine view of the matter; even then, he said, that it concerned us to look at our means of supporting it for a great number of years. He maintained, that without a reduction of the scale of our annual expenditure, it would be impossible to carry on the war for any long time. Even in the event of peace they would not be without their difficulties, as it would be expected that a considerable share of the public burthens should then be reduced. When his right hon. friend took part of the surplus of the consolidated fund to meet the additional charge of the present year, he did not much improve the prospect in the event of peace. He advised the House therefore to consider well the nature and extent, and applicability of their resources, with a view to peace and war. It was impossible always to go on in this way, from, expedient to expedient; satisfied with getting over the difficulty of one year, without adverting to the accumulating difficulties of the next. He begged the House to consider to what, if they went on in this way, they would come at last? The hon. gent. here related an anecdote which was current in France before the revolution—some person asked the minister of finance how they were to go on for a number of years?—his answer was, that the state of things, such as it was, would last their time; and after them, no matter what became of the finances. In a few years after came that horrible catastrophe, the French revolution. He did not mean, to say that any minister of this country would have uttered or conceived so unworthy a sentiment; but if the House did not take an extensive view of the subject, and provide accordingly, it would not do its duty. He thought that by suitable, reductions provision might be made for both alternatives, of peace and war, and that too without any diminution of our dominions or of the proper means of defence and carrying on the war. If he had not thought so, he would not have been so ready to come forward with his ideas on the subject. He had no doubt that this might be done.—He should not therefore in saying this, betray the secret of our weakness, but the measure of our strength. He would not then enter at length into the subject; but must say that next session it would be the duty of Parliament to consider it with attention. His right hon, friend had resorted to a source which would not avail in other years. If he could have found taxes to answer his purpose, it would have been a much better course, and one which no doubt he would have adopted.

Adverting to that part of the statement where the increase of the duty on stamps from 106,000l. to 1,200,000l. had been ascribed to the regulations and additions of 1808, he observed that the stamp duties had been consolidated in 1806, and had since been increasing by the usual growth of the revenue, and the better mode of collection, as well as by the new duties. There were some articles, such as bank paper, &c. in which a diminution might be calculated upon, though he allowed that an increase might be expected in ether articles. He disavowed whatever share of merit might be ascribed to himself for any thing he had done in 1808 on this head. The sound principle was to take the whole of the taxes and the charge upon them. They were in some instances above, in others below the charge, although certainly upon the whole above. But this course of his right hon. friend would only create the necessity of adding another million to next year's loan, so that it was only shifting the ground; he might as well have placed the charge upon the war taxes. It was, however, a cheering part of the statement, that no additional burthen was to be created this year. With regard to the statement on the whole, however, he confessed he had been greatly disappointed. When the ministers had made up their minds to advise his Majesty to promise that the accounts would be made up with a rigid attention to economy, he had expected that a considerable reduction was to have taken place. He thought that reductions had been intended to be made in some of the larger establishments. He did not say that any very great diminution could be made; but he thought a reduction of some millions might be effected without injury to the country. He then adverted to the arguments which had been used by one of the lords of the Admiralty (Mr. Ward,) for keeping up the number of seamen to 145,000 men. It had been said that it was desirable to have a navy, not only sufficient to cope with the whole world at sea, but also a considerable reserve. To the general proposition, that it was desirable, he would assent; but then he must balance the advantages and disadvantages. It was customay for persons out of doors to say, that liberty was desirable—so it was in the abstract; but then the government of the country must so far infringe on that liberty, as to provide the ways and means of the year. He repeated, that it was too much the practice for the several officers of government to look at the expenditure in their several departments, as applied to a favourite object of pursuit. It had been said that we might be in difficulties with regard to America; but it had not been stated that there was any particular reason to apprehend this. Then the use of a large reserve had been argued upon from the dispatch, which had been evinced in sending out the expedition to Copenhagen.—But in 1801, a large Expedition had been sent to Copenhagen, and with great dispatch, when the number of seamen was much smaller, and the calls upon the service of the navy much larger. There were at that time no less than ninety-four sail of the line, French, Spanish, &c. Before the battle of Trafalgar the enemy had large fleets, and the numbers of our seamen did not exceed 120,000 at that time. He thought that the distinction between the present naval war, and former wars of the same description, was not sufficiently attended to. The object formerly was to oppress the commerce of the enemy, but, now even with 200,000 seamen nothing in that way could be done. By the injury done to his commerce and revenue, we might have hoped formerly to have driven the enemy to reasonable terms of peace. Now, however, there was no hope of doing this by any such means. His right hon. friend had asked, what progress Buonaparté had made in his favourite object, of obtaining ships, colonies and commerce. But Buonaparté had altered his policy in that respect, for it seemed now to be his policy to destroy commerce altogether, and whatever deficiency might be occasioned in his revenue, he would have no scruple in supplying by exactions of any kind. He had, besides, the command almost of the whole continent, and could draw his supplier from all quarters by land. He concluded by adverting to the state of Ireland, which had to raise five millions by extraordinary means. He deprecated any thing like despondency as to our resources, but at the same time urged the propriety and necessity of husbanding them as much as possible.

concurred in the wish of his hon. friend that every practicable retrenchment should be adopted, and that opinion he had already communicated out of doors. He felt strongly, that his right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would present himself before the House next sessions with a very bad grace, if he did not prove that the utmost attention had been paid to the economy in the public expenditure. But to what amount the wished for reduction of that expenditure would extend, he thought it impossible at present to calculate. There was happily however no reason to entertain any gloomy apprehension. But sufficient for the day was the evil there of. There would, he trusted, be a considerable reduction in the expenditure of the navy, as his hon. friend had estimated, from the present state of the enemy. As to the propriety of a provision for future years, and of an additional tax at present in lieu of the proposed appropriation of the surplus of the stamp-duty, he could not help observing, that we had done quite enough for our posterity, and he hoped, that they would be able to do as much for themselves., We had, in fact, made such arrangements for the benefit of those who are to come after us, that no less than 10 million per annum, were set apart to relieve them from, debt, which sum was more than the whole revenue of the country, when he first entered into public life. How the resources of the country had been so prosperous as the statement of his right honourable friend displayed, he declared himself unable to account. But somehow it appeared, that from the industry and ingenuity of our merchants, every prohibitory measure of Buonaparté's had utterly failed of their object. In fact, instead of limiting our trade, it had rather been extended in spite of the hostile proceedings of the enemy.

disapproved of his right hon. friend's sentiment in this instance, that sufficient for the day was the evil threof. On the contrary, he thought it would be wise in the present circumstances of the country, to consider of an arrangement of some permanent system calculated to guard against future evil.

thought it necessary that some inquiry should be instituted as to the cause of the present state of our resources, in order to ascertain whether that cause was likely to be permanent, or merely of a temporary nature. This inquiry appeared the more necessary, as even an old member of the board of trade (Mr. Rose) professed himself unable to account for that prosperity upon which the House had been congratulated. As to retrenchment, he heard no proposal of it—he could see no sign of it—notwithstanding all the professions that had been made. He saw a vote of credit equal to that of the last year, when we had Austria and Sweden to subsidize; and this vote too in addition to that already granted to Portugal. What then could be the object of this vote? It certainly required explanation. As to the rise in the price of three per cent. stock, he thought it owing to artificial causes, by no means indicative of national prosperity, although enabling the right hon. gent. to conclude the loan upon such advantageous terms. But the right hon. gent. seemed to have had a great deal of good luck to help him out in his difficulties. In the first year of his financial duties, the loan had been provided by his predecessors; in the second year between three and four hundred thousand of annuities fell in; and now a surplus produce of taxes offered, which, however, he thought the right hon. gent. was grossly misapplying when setting them apart to pay the interest of the loan. This surplus ought rather in his judgment to be included in the produce of the consolidated fund, to which it properly belonged, and a new tax imposed to defray the interest of the loan. But the right hon. gent. by his measure broke a wisely established principle, merely to make a fetch at popularity, by a shew of declining new taxes. This, however, all thinking men must feel to be mere delusion. For the sum thus taken from the consolidated fund must be again supplied by new taxes; and if the right hon. gent. should go on from year to year, appropriating a part of the surplus of the consolidated fund to pay the interests of his loans, it was obvious the public could not ultimately be gainers. But the right hon. gent. was in fact violating his contract with the public creditors, who lent their money upon the security of the stamp tax, by appropriating the surplus of its produce to the payment of the interest upon a new loan, and he was also neglecting to make provision for the future. as the right hon. gent. aware, while he thus declined to look to future difficulties, that he would in the event of peace the next day be obliged to find nine or ten millions a year of new taxes? Why then be so improvident on this occasion? He was not one of those who despaired of the resources of the country, or wished to damp its spirit, but he would strongly recommend it to the right hon. gent. to look minutely into our situation. With that view he advised the right hon. gent. at an early part of the next sessions, to institute a similar inquiry to those which took place in 1782 and 1796. The necessity for such an investigation was obvious. For the satisfaction of the House and of the country it ought to be immediately entered into. He was persuaded that the right hon. gent. did not himself know how the country was going on, or how to calculate upon the means of our future provision. It was not for the right honourable gentleman then in the present state and prospect of Europe, to be contented with the making of shifts for a session or two, but to look to some permanent system—to look particularly to the reduction of our expenditure, for which no disposition whatever was manifested by him, and above all in future to abstain from crippling the consolidated fund.

observed, that the terms upon which the loan had been that day negociated were in his opinion, the best proof of the increasing wealth and resources of the country, and gave the best assurance of hope that in future the people would be enabled to bear those burthens which the necessities of affairs might require. With respect to the prosperous state of the country, and the application of the revenue, he agreed with his hon. friend and the right hon. gent. that under any government less disposed to pay attention to measures of economy, it might rather be productive of evil than good. It however could not be denied that there were considerable diminutions in many of the items of the public expenditure though certainly not in so great a degree as that the committee could look to them as any material saving. In the ordnance there was a saving this year of l,500,000l.—In the army 800,000l. but there was most assuredly an increase in the navy expence of between 2 and 300,000l. It would be recollected, however, with respect to the increase in the navy, that he had stated formerly that expectation from the necessity of making an addition to the number of seamen of 15,000 more than the number employed in the former year, for the purpose of affording assistance to our allies in Spain. The right hon. gent. then proceeded to vindicate the appropriation of the surplus of the stamp duties, which he proposed. He contended that the additions and regulations made in 1808 had produced much more than was originally estimated. This was a mistake in the former calculation, and the only way of correcting that mis- take was by applying the surplus to the relief of the public from any new tax. He denied that this surplus could be fairly deemed as a part of what was called the surplus of the consolidated fund, and therefore the right honourable gentleman's objections were inapplicable. That there was a saving in the proposed expenditure would, he asserted, be obvious to any man who examined the several heads of expence, particularly in the ordnance, the army and navy. As to the vote of credit, another opportunity would occur for discussing that topic. But although, from the present state of Europe, it was deemed expedient to place such a sum at the disposal of his Majesty, it did not follow that it would be expended. With respect to the right honourable gentleman's allusion to his good luck, he observed, that the right hon. gent, seemed quite sore upon that point. But the effects of this good luck, as the right hon. gent. would have it, furnished another obstacle to the wish of his right hon. friend. For it appeared that notwithstanding all the drivelling and blundering ascribed to him and his colleagues, the country was thriving under their government, and in a state of prosperity, which the right hon. gent. and his friends, with all their talents, could not deny. As to the reduction which had taken place in the production of the malt duty, that notoriously arose out of the stoppage of the distilleries, which could only be of a temporary duration; and he had the satisfaction to think that this was the only branch of our revenue which had suffered in the slightest degree a diminution. The right hon. gent. concluded with observing, that he did not mean, in his allusion to his hon. friend (Mr. Huskisson) to insinuate that his hon. friend meant, in a former declaration of his, to create the false impression respecting our means, which it certainly produced. But he thought it right to advert to it, as the present appeared a proper opportunity for removing that impression.

was apprehensive that the calculation upon the surplus of the consolidated fund would be found to be rather vague and uncertain; the produce in consequence of the act of the year 1808, upon that fund, which had been so much relied on, was in great part owing to the product of the duties upon stamps, rather than to any new taxes imposed at that time. The great object would be to keep the income and expenditure of the country within one another; the excess of the loan for each year over the sinking fund had not decreased in the due proportion; the increase of product in 1808 had been owing principally to the mere modification of a duty advalorem, and could not make the principle of any fixed and definite calculation. He seemed to think that it would go more to equalize the mutual proportion, the income and expenditure should bear to each other, to resort in some degree to the aid of new taxes.

admitted that the produce of the measure of 1808 had been owing in some measure to a progressive increase of the stamp duties, but in a still greater proportion to the new regulations then erected.

After some further observations the Resolutions were agreed to, and the report, the House having resumed, was ordered to be received on Friday.