moved the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a committee, to consider of the propriety of increasing the duties on the importation of foreign timber, &c. He then stated to the committee that the object to which he had to call the attention of the committee was of very great importance. It was that by adopting the policy of laying a heavy additional duty on the timber imported from the North of Europe they might encourage the importation of that essential article from our own colonies in North America.—The price of timber in the north of Europe had within these few years risen to an enormous extent; no less indeed than 300 per cent. Another disadvantage attending this trade was, that, in the present state of Europe, the timber was brought to us, not by British but by foreign ships, and this to such a degree, that he believed there was paid last year between 2 and 3 millions to foreigners alone for the freightage of timber imported, to the amount of 358,000 tons. He believed that one half of the timber necessary for our consumption might be procured from our own colonies in North America, which with the pines of Canada would nearly supply the whole, and even if it fell short of his expectations, the country would be compensated for the loss by other advantages. The system now in use encouraged not only the building of foreign ships, but the formation of foreign sailors, and by the measure he now had to propose, he trusted a change would be wrought, by which, instead of twice that number of seamen, trained for Denmark and Russia, to be employed against us by our enemies, about 15,000 would be created for ourselves. The measure would besides encourage our colonies. It would enable them to clear their grounds of timber, and induce the cultivation of flax, hemp, &c. for our importation. In return, the colonies would be enabled to take our manufactures, instead of our being obliged to send out for their timber, as we now did, our ships in ballast. The principle of his proposition was not new, it was as old as the days of Queen Anne. He adverted to an extraordinary and ill-judged assertion advanced by a noble lord (Cochrane) on a former night, that there was not timber enough in Plymouth dock yard to build one half of a seventy-four. He regretted the noble lord could have been so hasty, and recommended him more caution in making such unguarded assertions for the future. The timber now in Plymouth dock yard was out of all proportion greater than than that specified by the noble lord. Upon all these considerations, he trusted the Committee would concur with him in the Resolution, "To lay an additional duty on oak wainscot, &c. imported under any shape from the north of Europe, and all timber not imported by the East India Company, or directly from our own colonies in North America."

said a few words is favour of the Resolution.

rose to call the earnest attention of the House, not so much to the present resolution, as to the alarming increase of foreign shipping in our trade thus incidentally brought under their eye on this occasion. The right hon. gent. had stated, that, last year, for the freight- age of timber alone, to the extent of 380,000 tons, this country had paid to foreigners the sum of from 2 to 3,000,000l. and, on a former evening an hon. gent. well acquainted with trade, on the subject of the marine insurance, had informed them, that not less than 10,000,000l. was paid, the same year, for the whole foreign freightage. This he considered as an alarming increase of foreign shipping, entirely subversive of our maritime system. He again then entreated the House to take into their serious consideration this new and growing evil, which, in his opinion, arose altogether out of the mercantile system, so much the favourite of the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Of this system, so persevered in, Buonaparté might be taking the advantage, and, like Cromwell, who, by diverting the trade from the Dutch, became the carrier and first maritime power of Europe, he might be deluding our government, by pretending a total disregard to commerce, while, in fact, even in the midst of war, by our own. connivance he was creating seamen to man his fleets against us. For he could, at any time, transfer to his service the men thus employed in a neutral trade, of powers immediately under his controul. If he exercised his genius, as he was well able to do in this way, he would be playing a deep game, and deluding us by taking advantage of our own ill-judged policy.

in reply, stated, that so far from encouraging foreign shipping, the Board of Trade never, in one instance, swerved from this principle; never to permit a foreign ship to go where a British ship could be employed. The hon. gent. talked of their being deluded; but how was this? It was by the strong hand, of Buonaparté, which procured the exclusion of British shipping from the ports of the north of Europe.—The question then was, whether, by accepting of neutral carriage, where no other could be used, they were to carry on an. important trade? or, by rejecting this means, were to shut the door on their exports, and starve their manufacturers? It was a consolation to know, that, under all the disadvantages imposed by the enemy, our own shipping had increased in value. As a proof of this, he instanced a vessel, bought threè years ago for 2,700l. now selling at 6,000l.

considered it as a matter of general policy to encourage trade with our own colonies. The argument of Buonaparté's treading in the steps of Cromwell, was an additional reason for approving of the proposed measure. He had heard, however, that the timber from North America was not adequate for our national purposes, and also that the quantity could not be so great as the right hon. gent. expected, or the uses of the country required.

rose to endeavour to dissipate the gloomy apprehensions expressed by the hon. gent, opposite, and those which his speech might have excited as to the commercial state of the country. There were doubtless, a great many foreign ships employed in our trade to the various ports of the north of Europe, as it was impossible to carry on trade with those places in English ships. His right hon. friend therefore was desirous of obtaining a supply of timber from our own colonies, that foreign ships might not be so much encouraged. The hon. gent, opposite must therefore think the plan he proposed most wise, as it went to counteract that evil of which he had complained. If foreign ships had been much employed trading to the north of Europe, British vessels had been employed instead of others in the trade to South America and to the Spanish and Portuguese colonies, so that if there were an increase of foreign tonnage in one quarter, there was an increase of British tonnage in another. In 1807 the tonnage of British vessels coming inward amounted to 8,590 tons; in 1809 the amount was 10,173, having increased 1,583 tons. The tonnage of foreign ships employed in 1807 amounted to 3,702. In 1809 its amount was 4,682, having increased since 1807 by 1807 by 980. Thus it appeared that there was an increase of the tonnage of foreign vessels employed in our trade of 980 tons, while the increase of British tonnage amounted to 1,583 tons. From this it must appear that all the advantage was not on the side of foreign vessels, but that the increase of their tonnage arose from the general increase of trade. The tonnage of the English vessels cleared out in 1807 was 8,924 tons, in 1809 it was 9,935, that of foreign vessels cleared out in the former year was 3,630, in the latter 4,370. Hence it would be obvious that the increase, of the tonnage of foreign vessels was 740 tons, while that of the English vessels cleared out amounted to 1011, so that the increase of the trade carried on in English vessels was greater in proportion than the increase of that carried on by means of foreign shipping.

was apprehensive that the American timber was not fit for all the purposes to which this country would wish to apply her importations of that article, and we would therefore be at a loss for our necessary supplies, were a heavy duty, amounting to a prohibition, to be laid on that procured from the north of Europe.

objected to the system of trade favoured by ministers, as tending to prefer the northern neutrals, which were, in reality, our enemies, to the American shipping, in the trade to Norway and the Baltic. That trade might much better be carried on under the American flag; but for this really neutral power had been substituted pretended neutrals, who might be instantly converted into enemies, and we were consequently by this course enriching a part of the world it was least our interest to enrich. This was the great error of the present system—the encouragement of the northern powers instead of America. With regard to the measure itself, he feared our colonies would neither produce a sufficient quantity of timber, nor that of sufficient quality. It would, besides, give the western part of the kingdom an advantage over the eastern, as the former would be supplied from America, and the latter from the Baltic. It would also increase the price of a necessary article, already enormously high. The object was, however, a great one, and the experiment might perhaps deserve to be tried.

said, that government had ever been ready to encourage America, as far as she would allow them to favour her. The disposition was, and ever had been, the same.

, from a clause in the barrack contracts, in Ireland, enforcing the use of Memel, in opposition to American timber, took it for granted, that the latter was of a very inferior quality. He must therefore be averse to a measure which would introduce it into all our public works. He also opposed the resolution, as interfering in an unjustifiable manner with the trade of the country, which ought always to be left free.

The Resolution, and others consequent thereon, were then agreed to, and the report ordered to be received to-morrow.

, in pursuance of his notice, rose to move for the production of a paper which would throw much light, on the state of India Finance, but more especially on the export trade of that country. The fate of his former motion should not deter him from trying the fate of another, though apprehensive of resistance from the same quarter which caused it to be rejected, on the score that the papers were too voluminous and expensive. He now wished only for a single document, which could be resisted on no other account but as exposing the executive government of India, and the rapid decay of the exports of that country, which by good management Blight be made so productive. He concluded by moving for the copy of a letter from the governor and council of Bengal, to the court of directors, dated August 23, 1809.

opposed the motion, on the ground that the paper was now before the East India Committee, whose report would bring it under the consideration of the House. He had opposed the hon. gent.'s former motion, not from a desire of any concealment of affairs which were perfectly well known, but on account of the immense mass of papers moved for, which could not have been produced but at very great expence. He now opposed his motion, because he considered it highly inexpedient to take a detached paper from under the consideration of the Committee, and call on the House for a decision on a part of a question, when they would soon have the whole before them.

wished that all the papers which were moved for had been in the hands of hon. gentlemen during the recess. The various documents had not fair play in the House; it was necessary that it should be in possession of every paper, on these grounds he voted for the motion.

observed, that on the subject of Finance and the export trade there must necessarily be a multitude of documents. If the House was now to take them into consideration, it would just have to go over the same ground it did before.

said, that it could be proved, by an examination into India affairs, that the company was in a state of bankruptcy; but if those affairs were properly attended to, the consequences would have been directly opposite. As to the documents, no possible reason could be given for their refusal.

After a short conversation the House divided, when there appeared.—For the Motion—24; Against it—64; Majority—40.

having taken a retrospective view of the different advances made to the army, and the comparative increase which had taken place even in the wages of artizans, concluded with moving the repeal of those parts of the different acts imposing taxes upon property, which applied to officers in the army and navy, and to subalterns in the militia.

thought the case of the officers of the army and navy a hard one, as it appeared that they had had more pay formerly than now, though a sum would have been affluence some time ago, which would now scarcely suffice for subsistence, however frugally managed. He had heard it said, that the great motive of the soldier ought to be honour, and that it would be better that officers should be persons of some substance. He could not assent to the principle. Some of the most valuable officers in the service had been men of no fortune, who raised themselves by their merits; and honour "had no skill in surgery," it certainly "had none in cookery." It would not serve for food. He slated that colonel Grey, one of his constituents, had mentioned to him cases of peculiar hardship in the profession from the scantiness of pay, and, indeed, he had himself observed many such. He should be sorry to diminish the revenue, but he earnestly recommended it to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose private character he admired, to apply his mind to this subject, and to improve the condition of the officers of the army and navy, though the necessity in the navy was not so strong. He pronounced an eulogium on the character of the British army, and particularly adverted to the devotion to their country with which they encountered all the hardships of foreign climates; of the West and East Indies, &c., a circumstance which, in his opinion, had not been sufficiently attended to. He asked whether a saving to the extent of 5 or 600,000l., a-year might not be made by imposing the beer tax on the malt, and so levying both the tax on beer and that on malt only at the expence which was now required to collect the latter tax?

admitted the merits of the officers of the army in their utmost extent; and the only ground of objection to the measure proposed, was its impracticability. The relief must come in a different way. He controverted some of the statements of the gallant genera!; for the pay was formerly liable to deductions, which had been laid aside, and as to the augmentation of salaries in the civil departments, it ought to be recollected that the rise was little more than a compensation for the loss of fees which had been abolished. He must oppose the motion.

contended strongly for the propriety of adopting some measure of relief, at a time when all the necessaries of life were so much advanced in price. He thought also, that under the present regulation, the officers in the different services did not receive the sum which they were promised upon the faith of government. The income tax reduced it 10 per cent. If this was not done away, some other means should be tried to place them in a state of comfort, and enable the government to make good its promise to them.

could not allow this question to go to a vote, without explaining his reason for the support which he should give it, although he thought it did not go far enough, as the merely relieving officers from the 10 per cent. was not equal to their fair and honourable claims, he had almost said their just demands; but any and every amelioration of their present situation, was in his opinion, wise and necessary, and would have his support. He had on a former occasion stated to the House, and had endeavoured to call the attention of the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer to the pay of the officers of the navy, and had presumed to caution him against increasing the salaries of other servants of the public, unless he was prepared to meet the subject now before, the House. He then stated that there were certain classes of the navy actually receiving less now than they did in 1693.—He must now restate that it would be the greatest injustice to the army and navy, if the stipends of the clergy and law officers with every other civil department under government were augmented, and no attention paid to the sufferings and privations of those officers, that the civil departments of the navy had been ^***most considerably en-creased, he need only to refer to a few, and he would instance that of the Secretary of the Admiralty, who in 1694 had only 800l. and no fees, and in 1810–4,000l. The judge had only 400 or 600l. and now he believed it was upwards of 5,000l. He was aware that the magnitude of the sum required, was such as to cause every minister to pause before he acceded to the claim, but this very statement made it more necessary that he should not augment partially the allowances to public servants. He was sure he might without hesitation satisfy himself, that the House would not resist the petition of officers in the navy, if they can shew that they actually received less now than they did in 1693. But he must say, he did not wish to see any petition presented from them, and he was sure that the service might look with confidence to the right hon. gent, who presided at the board of admiralty; from those and from the crown did he hope that they would receive protection and support, in all and every difficulty.

said, he should oppose the motion; not because he thought the statements made were no grievances, or that no provision should be made, but because the principle upon which the proposed relief was founded was a bad one. The officers of the array and navy should certainly be put in a better situation, particularly after the alteration that was made in the situation of the civil officers. He hoped the gallant general would not push the question to a division.—The motion was then withdrawn.