stated to the House, that out of the present unhappy circumstances of the country, a difficulty had arisen, respecting the Issue from the exchequer of certain sums for the use of the Army and Navy. He begged the House would bear in mind, that the sums which he had mentioned had been expressly appropriated by parliament to the naval and military services. The difficulty to which he alluded had arisen between the Treasury and the Exchequer, and he felt it his duty to bring the subject before parliament, in order to call on the House to do that which was necessary for the public service, which, under the existing circumstances, required a Resolution of that House in order to sanction the proceeding of the executive government. He begged leave to state, that in what he had now said, and in what he might hereafter say on this subject, it was by no means his intention to impute blame to the person who had differed from him and the Treasury in his view of the duties which he had to perform; although he lamented that that person had not seen those duties in the light which they appeared to him. He trusted, however, that the House would consider it inconvenient and unfair to enter into a further discussion, or even a statement on the business, until they should be fully in possession of the facts connected with it; and he thought, therefore that in the interval between the present period and to-morrow, when it was his intention to bring the subject under the consideration of the Committee of the whole House (having previously presented the few papers which he held in his hand, and which might with ease be printed by that time), he could not better discharge his duty than by abstaining from any further comment on the transaction. He must however declare, that although it had not occurred to him before the present circumstance, that it would be expedient to bring this subject under the immediate notice of parliament, yet he had always anticipated it as his duty to submit it to their consideration—not for the purpose of obtaining a previous vote of indemnity, but, having incurred the responsibility of action, with, the view of calling on the House to determine whether or not ministers had acted justifiably in taking the measures which they had adopted? If there was any objection on the other side of the House to his making the present motion without notice, injurious as the delay might be, he would content himself with giving notice of the motion for to-morrow. (Cries of no, no!) As no objection of that kind appeared to exist, he would move—"That there be laid before the House a copy of the Warrant from the lords commissioners of the treasury directed to the auditor of the exchequer, dated the 31st of December, 1810: together with copies of the correspondence that has taken place between the lords of the treasury, and the auditor of the exchequer, relative thereto."

observed, that the right hon. gent. had certainly mistaken the sentiments of himself and of his friends, if he conceived that they would object to the motion on the ground of due notice of it not having been given. The right hon. gent. had said enough to prevent any such idea from being entertained on their part. The urgency of the case was evidently such as to exempt the motion from the ordinary form of the House. The right hon. gent. had expressed his intention of moving that these papers, when presented, should be printed. He was of course aware that it was impossible for him (Mr. Ponsonby) to be in possession of all the facts of the case; and he trusted therefore that the right hon. gent. had moved for all the documents which were necessary to render the House completely masters of the subject. In his mind, it would have been much better had the Treasury applied at an earlier period to the Exchequer, to ascertain the conduct which it was likely the latter would pursue. It was very imprudent to postpone such an application until the period when the issue of money was immediately wanted for the public service. Had the right hon. gent. made this application some weeks ago, he would probably by this time have been put in possession of the expedient for which he now sought. On a former occasion the right hon. gent. had declared, that no public inconvenience was likely to arise from the adjournment to which he persuaded the House to agree. In that opinion the right hon. gent. was probably sincere. But what had just been brought under the notice of the House proved that a very great inconvenience to the public service was likely to accrue. For the right. hon. gent. said, that the issue to which he alluded was immediately wanted for an important branch of the public service. Now, surely, it was no slight inconvenience that the House should be called upon to deliver it on a motion of such primary consequence, when wholly unapprised of the mode which it was probable the right hon. gent. would propose to obviate the difficulty. That the public service must be provided for was evident. They could never suffer the navy and army to want the necessary means of subsistence, but then they ought to have been in earlier possession of the means of judging as to the most satisfactory mode of obtaining this object. He therefore repeated his regret, that the right hon. gent. had not agitated the subject at an earlier period.

wished to know if the House was to understand that the correspondence for which the right hon. gent. was about to move, comprised in it an official explanation of the whole of the difficulty which had occurred? If it did not, the defect might possibly be supplied by moving for some additional document.

expressed his thanks to the two right hon. gentlemen for the forbearance which they had shown on the subject. In answer to the first, he declared his conviction that he should be able to show to-morrow that he had not been guilty of any unnecessary delay. In answer to the second, he must say, that he did not know that the correspondence for which he was about to move would contain any document completely satisfactory as to the cause of the existing difficulty. He would take the liberty of explaining that cause to the House in a few words; and if they should be of opinion that something more formal was necessary than his verbal explanation, he would endeavour, if possible, to procure a document on the subject. The Exchequer Act required that the issue of public money should be under the Great Seal, or under the Privy Seal, or by authority of an act of parliament. It had appeared to him, with reference to that Act, that the warrant of the Treasury would have been sufficient; but he must accompany the declaration of this opinion with an acknowledgment that the Attorney and Solicitor General had stated it to him to be their opinion that such warrant would not be strictly legal. There had been no instance of an issue under the Great Seal, unless for civil purposes. With this con- sideration he had thought that it would be proper to use the Privy-Seal. The use of the Privy Seal had two advantages; the first, that when once the warrant under the privy seal had gone to the Exchequer, it was to all intents and purposes a legal instrument, although the person by whom it had been issued might be hanged for issuing it. The Keeper of the Privy Seal was willing to undertake this responsibility, but he was not the only responsible person; the signature of the Clerk of the Privy Seal (Mr. Larpent) was also necessary, and this gentleman did not think himself justified by his oath of office in taking this step. Therefore, although he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was willing to take all the responsibility on himself, yet, owing to this circumstance, the Exchequer would of course object to an instrument coming before them without the necessary formalities. Nothing therefore remained but that he should apply to that House for a Resolution to obviate the difficulty. Should they not consider his explanation sufficient, he would endeavour to prevail on the officer whom he had mentioned to write a short official note, expressive of the incompatibility which he felt between his oath of office and the preparation of the instrument required of him.

preferred having the note from the Clerk on the table, as it was material that the discussion on this subject should be founded on official documents.

required some further explanation of the transaction.

declined entering into any further details until to-morrow. He would endeavour to obtain as good a document from the Clerk of the Privy Seal as he could, but he trusted that this circumstance would not occasion any delay, as it was material that the question should be decided upon to-morrow.

The motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was then agreed to. After which the Papers were presented and ordered to be printed. The following are Copies of the said Papers.

CORRESPONDENCE

Between the Lords of his Majesty's Treasury and the Auditor of the Exchequer respecting the Issue of Money, for the Service of the Army and Navy.

No. I.—Warrant—£. 500,000.—Bank of England; on account of the Treasurer of the Navy.

After our hearty commendations:—Whereas by an act passed in the last Session of Parliament, intitled, "An act for granting to his Majesty certain sums of money out of the Consolidated Fund of Great Britain, and for applying certain monies therein mentioned, for the service of the year 1810, and for further appropriating the supplies granted in this Session of Parliament," the sum of 9,237,934l. 5s. 11d. was granted to his Majesty, for and towards the naval services therein more particularly mentioned: And whereas it appears by a joint resolution of the Houses of Lords and Commons, that, "His Majesty is prevented by his present indisposition from coming to his Parliament, and from attending to public business, and that the personal exercise of the Royal Authority by his Majesty, is thereby for the present interrupted;" And whereas it is indispensably necessary for his Majesty's service, that the sums granted as aforesaid should be issued and applied for the purposes authorized by the said Act; and that for the urgent and pressing demands of the Navy it is necessary, in order to prevent the manifest and serious injury which the public service would sustain if such issue of money were not made, that the sum of 500,000l. should be forthwith issued for the service of the navy: And whereas during the continuance of his Majesty's indisposition, and previous to any authority being obtained by Act of parliament to authorize the signature of his Majesty's name or the application of his Privy Seal, the ordinary and accustomed mode of issuing money out of the Exchequer cannot be pursued; and whereas by the said recited Act certain sums therein mentioned are directed to be issued and applied for and towards making good the supply granted to his Majesty; and the Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury, now or for the time being, or any three or more of them, or the High Treasurer for the time being, are or is thereby or by other acts therein recited, authorised and empowered to issue and apply the same accordingly: These are therefore, under the particular exigency of the case, to pray and require you to draw an order for paying under the Governor and Company of, the Bank of England, upon account of the right honourable George Rose, Treasurer of his Majesty's navy, or of the treasurer thereof for the time being, any sum or sums of money not exceeding in the whole the sum of five hundred thousand pounds, by way of imprest and upon account, for the service of the Navy and the victualling thereof; and let the said order be satisfied out of any the treasure or revenue in the receipt of the Exchequer, applicable to the uses and purposes abovementioned: for which this shall be your warrant. Whitehall Treasury Chambers, the 31st day of December 1810. (Signed) Sp. Perceval, W. Brodrick, W. Eliot, S. Barne, B. Paget.

To the Auditor of the Receipt of his Majesty's Exchequer.

No. II.—A like Warrant for 500,000l. to be paid to Mr. Long and lord Charles Somerset, for army services.

No. III.—Lord GRENVILLE, Auditor of the Exchequer, on the subject of issuing money, from the Exchequer, for the service of the Army and Navy, under the Warrants of the Lords of the Treasury.

Camelford-House, Jan. 1, 1811.

Sir,—Mr. Fisher has this moment brought to me two Warrants from the Lords Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury, under yesterday's date, by which I am required, in consideration of the circumstances therein stated, to draw an order for the issue of 500,000l. to the Bank, on account of the paymaster general of the forces, and also a like sum on account of the treasurer of the navy; for which issues no authority under his Majesty's Great Seal, or Privy Seal, or sign manual, has as yet been presented, according to the accustomed mode and course of the Exchequer in that behalf.

I have been, up to this moment, totally unapprized of any intention on the part of their lordships, to transmit to me any such warrants, but had on the contrary every reason to believe, from what you had stated to Mr. Fisher, that the officers of the Exchequer were to be called upon to act on this occasion under the authority of his Majesty's Privy Seal, which however irregularly it might have been obtained, would have been, in my judgment, imperative upon them.

It now becomes necessary for me to consider the nature and extent of the duties which this new and unexpected course of proceeding imposes upon me; and I must for that purpose request, that you will do me the honour to inform me, within what time it will be necessary, for avoiding those inconveniences to the pub- lic service, which are specified in the warrants of their lordships, that such orders as are beforementioned, should be drawn and transmitted to their lordships? I have the honour to be, Sir, your most obedient humble servant, (Signed) GRENVILLE.

The Right Hon. Sp. Perceval, &c. &c.

No. IV.—Mr. PERCEVAL to Lord GRENVILLE, stating the period when an issue should be made from the Exchequer, in pursuance of the Treasury Warrant.

Downing-street, 1st Jan.

My Lord—I have had the honour of receiving your lordship's letter of this day's date, desiring to know within what time it will be necessary, for avoiding those inconveniences to the public service, which are specified in the warrants to which your lordship's letter relates, that the order for issuing the money under such warrants should be transmitted to their lordships? and I have to state to your lordship, that according to the usual course of supplying the weekly issues, both to the navy and the army, it would be necessary that sums should be issued to both services, beyond the amount of the existing credits at the Exchequer, either to-morrow or the next day at farthest; but although such is the usual practice, which I should regret the necessity of departing from, yet if the orders could be so furnished as to admit of an actual issue being made upon them by Monday next, I do not apprehend any serious inconvenience to the public service from such a short delay. I have the honour to be, my lord, your lordship's most obedient and humble servant, (Signed)

SP. PERCEVAL.

No. V.—Lord GRENVILLE, Auditor of the Exchequer, transmitting a Case on the subject of issuing Money from the Exchequer under Treasury Warrants, and requesting the same might be submitted to the Attorney and Solicitor General.

Exchequer, January 1, 1811.

My Lords,—I have been informed by a letter of this date from the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that it is desirable the orders required by your lordships' warrants of yesterday's date, should be transmitted to your lordship either to-morrow or next day at farthest, and that serious inconvenience is apprehended to the public service, unless the actual issue can be made upon them by Monday next.

Under this pressure I have thought it my indispensible duty to lose no time in drawing up such a statement of the case, as my general knowledge of the subject enables me to do on the sudden. If there should appear to your lordships any deficiency or error in this statement, I beg leave to request that your lordships will have the goodness to direct, that the same should be supplied by your lordships' officers; and I cannot doubt that your lordships will then, in compliance with this my humble request, direct that the Case should be immediately submitted, by your lordships orders, to the Attorney and Solicitor General, in order that I may have the sanction of their legal advice and authority in a matter of such novel and unprecedented difficulty. I have the honour to be, my lords, with great respect, your lordships most obedient humble servant.

(Signed) GRENVILLE, Auditor.

No. VI.—CASE for the Opinion of his Majesty's Attorney and Solicitor General—1 January 1811.

The Auditor of the Exchequer is appointed by a constitution from the Lords Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury: his office is generally described by Lord Coke, Inst. 106. His appointment states his duty to be, that of writing all and every the tallies and counter tallies of all whatsoever the bills to be made hereafter at the Exchequer of our lord the king, on all and every the payments and assignments to be there made; and of doing and exercising all other things to that office belonging.

He has no general instructions accompanying his appointment.

Special provisions relative to his office and duties are contained in the eighth and ninth W. 3, c. 28. particularly in sections 6. 8. and 10. to which your attention is desired, as well as to the general tenor of the several statutes for the regulation of the Exchequer, and also to the stat. 50 Geo. 3, c. 115, f. 6.

Copies of the several forms of the Warrants under Privy Seal and Sign Manual, and of the usual warrant from the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury to the auditor, for drawing orders for the issue of money, according to the accustomed course of the Exchequer, are transmitted herewith. And Mr. Fisher, the auditor's chief clerk, an officer of long experience in the Exchequer, will attend you for the purpose of supplying any explanation of these instruments or any other information which you may require.

A Copy is herewith inclosed of two Warrants from the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, dated December 31, 1810; and requiring the Auditor, under the circumstances therein described, to draw orders for the issue of one million of the King's Treasure, for the issue of which no authority under his Majesty's Great Seal, Privy Seal, or Sign Manual has been presented, according to the accustomed course of the Exchequer in that behalf.

Your opinion is requested, by the Auditor, whether the aforesaid Warrant of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, is a sufficient authority imperative on him, and therefore a legal sanction for his proceeding to obey the same; or whether any and what discretion is left to him on this occasion, for the exercise of which he may be responsible in any Court of Law, or to the two Houses of Parliament; they having resolved, that it is their right and duty to provide the means of supplying the defect of the personal exercise of the Royal Authority arising from his Majesty's indisposition, in such manner as the exigency of the case may appear to them to require.

Opinion.

Having considered the several Statutes and Documents to which we are referred, and the general practice which we understand to have prevailed in the Exchequer, as well before as since appropriation acts similar to the 50 G. 3, c. 115. have been annually passed, we do not think that the Warrant of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, is in law a sufficient authority, imperative upon the Auditor, nor consequently a legal sanction for his proceeding to obey the same, nor that any discretion is left to him by the law on this occasion, for the exercise of which he will not be reponsible. V. GIBBS. THOS. PLUMER.

No. VII.—Mr. Harrison to Lord Grenville, transmitting Copy of the Opinion of the Attorney and Solicitor General, on the Case submitted by him; and stating the urgent necessity of his complying with the Treasury Warrant of the 31st December, 1810.

My Lord;—I am commanded by the Lords Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury, to acknowledge the receipt of your lordship's letter of yesterday, requesting that the Case, therein transmitted, should be immediately submitted to the Attorney and Solicitor General, in order that you may have the sanction of their legal advice and authority, in a matter of such novel and unprecedented difficulty; and to acquaint your lordship, that they lost no time in complying with your request. And I am now commanded to transmit to you a copy of the Opinion, which they have just received, from the Attorney and Solicitor General, stating, that they do not think that the Warrant of the Lords Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury is, in law, a sufficient authority imperative upon the Auditor, nor consequently a legal sanction for his proceeding to obey the same. My Lords direct me to add, that their sense of the mischief to the public service, which would arise if any delay should take place in the issues of the monies required by their Warrants of the 31st December, appears to render it indispensably necessary that those Warrants should be forthwith complied with, and that they are consequently ready to take upon themselves the responsibility of any act which may be essential for that purpose. I am, my lord, your lordship's most obedient and humble servant. GEO. HARRISON.—Jan. 2, 1811.

No. VIII.—Lord Grenville, stating his reasons for not complying with the directions of the Treasury Warrant for issuing Money from the Exchequer.

Exchequer, 3 January 1811.

My Lords;—I had the honour to receive, yesterday evening, a letter from Mr. Harrison, transmitting to me the Opinion of his Majesty's Attorney and Solicitor General, on the Statement which I took the liberty of submitting to your lordships, for the purpose of being laid before them; and I beg leave to express the due sense which I entertain of your lordship's ready compliance with my request. Having fully considered that opinion, I lose no time in humbly apprizing your lordships of the final judgment which I have formed as to the line of my official duty on this occasion. It is matter of the deepest concern to me, to be made the involuntary cause of any, even the shortest delay, in an issue of his Majesty's Treasure, stated to me, from such high authority as that of your lordships, to be important to the public service. If I could be satisfied of the propriety of my doing, what is required from me by the warrants which I have had the honour to receive from your lordships, there is no personal responsibility which I would not readily incur for the public interests; but I cannot persuade myself, that I could obey those warrants, without a breach of my official duty in that point, which is above all others peculiarly obligatory on the person placed in the situation of Auditor of the Exchequer; nor without a high and criminal violation both of a positive statute, and also of the essential principles of our monarchical and Parliamentary Constitution.

The act passed in the 8th and 9th of king William the 3d, cap. 28, intituled "An Act for the better observation of the course anciently used in the Receipt of Exchequer," prohibits the issue of the King's Treasure, except in pursuance of the special provisions of an Act of parliament, or under the authority of Warrants under his Majesty's Great Seal or Privy Seal, duly entered in the office of the auditor, who is thereupon to draw the necessary orders. In the present instance all these authorities are wanting; and it is proposed that 1,000,000l. sterling of his Majesty's Treasure shall be issued on the sole ground of a warrant signed by your lordships. Every step taken towards such an issue by an officer of the Exchequer, but more especially by the auditor, would be in open violation, both of that statute, and of the accustomed course of the Exchequer, for such an act your lordships' Warrant cannot, as I now learn from the highest authority, afford me any legal sanction. I must, I am told, act on my own discretion, for the exercise of which I must alone be responsible. This responsibility, if it legally attaches upon me, I certainly cannot transfer to any other persons, and least of all to your lordships, whatever willingness you have expressed to take it on yourselves. My attempting to do so, would itself be criminal; tending to confound the official relations in which I have the honour to stand towards your lordships, and to annul those checks which the law has established to ensure the faithful discharge of our respective duties, and thereby the security of the public treasure.—But I beg leave humbly to submit to your lordships, that the law has in truth invested me with no discretion on this question.

The exigencies of the public service, which your lordships have condescended to detail to me in these your warrants, are matters of state, of which, as auditor of the exchequer, I have no knowledge, and can take no cognizance; my official duty is strictly limited to an observance of the accustomed forms of the exchequer, and of the laws which have from time to time been passed for its regulation. To is these I am bound to adhere; and it is on the fullest consideration which this pressure of time has permitted me to give to them, that I am compelled to decline, but with all due respect to your lordships, a compliance with the requisition contained in those warrants to which this letter refers.

Perhaps, however, on an occasion of such high and urgent public interest, it may not be improper for me, before I close this letter, further to submit to your lordships my view of the mode in which all difficulties on this subject may be removed, in so far at least as any agency of mine may be required for the purpose of those issues; a mode which I am happy to think may still be resorted to, even within the period which the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer did me the honour to point out to me, as that within which no serious inconvenience is to be apprehended to the public service.

Your lordships have recited in your warrants, the resolution by which the two Houses of Parliament have declared the melancholy fact of the temporary incapacity of his Majesty for the discharge of his high functions. If it be proper for me, in my official character, in any manner whatever to act on this declaration, I cannot separate my knowledge of it from that of the accompanying Resolution, by which the Lords and Commons did at the same time declare, that it was their right and duty "to provide the means of supplying the defect of the personal exercise of the royal authority arising from his Majesty's said indisposition, in such manner as the exigency of the case may appear to them to require."

To this Resolution all the subjects of this realm owe submission and obedience, and while it presents on the one hand, in my judgment, a fresh and insuperable obstacle to my obeying your lordships requisition, it does, I trust, afford, on the other hand, the means of obviating any inconvenience that could arise from any adherence to this my public duty, I should think myself doubly criminal, if, while the two Houses are actually proceeding in the execution of such their right and duty, I were to take upon myself to decide, for them, in what manner the defect in the personal exercise of the King's authority shall be supplied, in so important a branch as that of the issue of his royal treasure; much more, if I were to arrogate to myself the power of dispensing, for that purpose, with the express provisions of the laws by which my official duties are regulated.

But if your lordships shall think it proper to submit this difficulty to the consideration of the two Houses of Parliament, they have declared, that with them rests the right and duty to provide the means of removing it. With them resides, under the present exigency, the power to command those official seals, the use of which would constitute an imperative and unquestionable authority to the officers of the exchequer; with them rests the discretion of judging in what other manner they may think it more fit to provide a sufficient warrant or sanction for any issue which they may determine to be requisite for the public interests; and I certainly should not fail to defer to their pleasure with entire submission, and to execute with the most implicit obedience, any orders which I shall receive from your lordships, under the sanction of their authority. I have the honour to be, with the highest respect, my lords, your lordships' most obedient, and most humble servant, GRENVILLE, Auditor.