House of Commons
Wednesday, February 20, 1811.
Report of the Bullion Committee
wished to ask the hon. and learned gentleman opposite, whether it was his intention to propose any legislative measure on the subject of the Report of the Committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the high price of Bullion; and if it was, when he would be prepared to introduce the question for discussion.
replied, that, in his opinion, the documents and accounts already before the House were amply sufficient to enable the House to proceed to this investigation, without the production of any further papers. He believed, however, that the accounts lately moved for would require some time, and create some difficulty before they could be obtained; he should therefore wait till his return from the circuit, and bring the subject forward early in April. In answer to the inquiry of the right hon. gent. he had to state, that it was his intention to submit a legislative measure founded on the Report of the Committee, which measure would be the repeal of the Bank restriction. He wished, at the same time, to be informed whether the mode adopted by issuing an order of that House for the production of the accounts lately moved for by the right hon. gent. was likely to prove effectual for that purpose. He was himself apprehensive that it would not be easy to ascertain correctly the current prices of gold and silver Bullion, and the variations in the course of the exchange, by means of those papers, and that tables constructed on a certain principle would furnish a better opportunity of communicating the requisite information. He much feared that it would be impossible to get the returns officially made with proper accuracy, in conformity to the order of the House.
expressed his regret that there should be any delay in so important a case, where it was of the utmost consequence that the decision of the House, be it what it might, should be come to as soon as possible. He would undertake that the papers for which he had moved should be on the table in a few days.
said he was perfectly aware of the propriety of coming to a prompt decision, and assured the House that there was no wish upon his part to postpone the discussion; no other delay would take place, they might depend, than was necessary to bring the subject fully before them.
Navy Estimates
rose to move the usual Vote of Seamen, the same in number as that of the last year. The vote of last year granted 145,300 seamen, including 31,400 marines; and it appeared to him that as many would be required now; for though our successes in the Indian sea might seem to make a smaller force necessary, the situation of the north of Europe must prevent, for the present, any considerable reduction in that establishment. It should also be recollected, that a long time must elapse before the return of the ships from India, even if it were thought expedient to make any alteration in that respect. A change had taken place last year in the manner of voting seamen. It was then conceived right to provide for the victualling separately instead of including it, as was formerly the practice, under the general head of wear and tear, and he should now propose the vote of supply upon the same principle. The actual number of marines for the present year surpassed the estimate in consequence of the volunteers who went out on the expedition to the Scheldt, but he should only require a vote of 145,000 for the sea service altogether.
said he did not mean to oppose the vote, but could not help observing, that the estimates of the last year were printed; he was sorry that was not the case in the present instance. As to the necessity contended for by the right hon. gent. of maintaining so great a number of seamen, he was the more inclined to be dissatisfied with it, as so much was stated in the course of last session, particularly by one right hon. gent. upon the propriety of looking to the naval establishment as one great source of public retrenchment. The right hon. gent. had mentioned our great successes in the Indian seas, but turning his attention from thence to the North of Europe, he had re presented the force of the enemy to be increasing in the Scheldt. On hearing this declaration it was impossible to avoid regretting the ill success which attended all our attempts. It had been stated in evidence last year that the Bason of Flushing was destroyed, and now it was to be apprehended that the enemy was collecting his force there. He should make no other remark upon these points at present, but reserve himself for future opportunities.
said, that the vote of this day referred merely to the wear and tear, and that the other parts would be brought forward as soon as possible. As to looking for any great or material retrench- ment in the number of seamen, he was not one of those who reckoned on it with much assurance in the present situation of Europe and of the war; and as to the operations in the Scheldt, he still thought that great advantage was derived from them. The bason of Flushing had been so far destroyed, as to render it impossible for any considerable number of ships to winter either there or at Antwerp. This was an object of essential utility to the country.
wished to understand correctly, if large French ships could or could not pass the winter in the bason of Flushing at present? He recollected that one of the greatest ornaments of the naval service, commodore Owen, had stated in his examination, that his opinion was that not a single ship would be spared by the result of the operations in the Scheldt, and the right hon. gentleman had now given additional confirmation to that belief.
said, in answer to the hon. member's question, that the bason of Flushing was not practicable to ships of the line; he did not know, whether the smaller vessels of the enemy might, or might not, make any use of it.
The motion was agreed to; and also the following sums voted on the motion of Mr. Yorke:—For wear and tear of the Navy 3,345,850l. for victualling 4,053,312l. for ordnance 639,750l.
moved for the sum of 3,000,000l. for his Majesty's Land Forces; and 2,000,000l. for the Militia of Great Britain and Ireland.
wished to know whether it was the intention of the noble lord to recommend any alteration in the system of the Local Militia?
said it was the intention of government to diminish the number of days of attendance from three weeks to a fortnight, except in the case of those who had not served last year.
then called the attention of the Committee to the discipline of the Staff. A doubt, he said, existed in the minds of some, whether under the Militia Bill they had power to try by Court Martial, and that doubt produced bad effects upon the discipline of different regiments; but the point to which he wished principally to advert, was the infliction of corporeal punishment in those cases. He thought imprisonment a much more eligible course, and fully as conducive to promote the discipline of the corps.
said it was competent to the Courts Martial at present to recommend imprisonment in the place of corporeal punishment.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.